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Tacos Al Pastor posted:Thank you for posting this. This is why I think we should only speak in Japanese inside the dojo. Jack B Nimble posted:Judo had decades of precedence in showing these techniques to Americans, it just never broke into the public consciousness the way the UFC did. "Opening the closed guard" asserts that there's no technique used in Brazilian Jiujitsu that isn't found in Judo until the IBJJF exponentially increases tournament participation in the the early aughts. The public at large, even the majority of the martial artists in the USA, may have considered UFC 1 a revolution, but fundamentally there's nothing there that couldn't have been done by a Judoka with a preference for the ground game. Joe Rogan has an anecdote where he (with essentially only a kick boxing background at this point) gets a hold of a VHS tape of the event and has his view of fighting challenged by the fights; it seems like Royce is just dragging everyone to the ground and strangling them and they're powerless to stop him, but it's essentially the same outcome of a Judoka fighting a Boxer in the early 1960s when Gene Lebell eventually gets back mount and puts Milo Savage in a rear naked choke. Also unlike the fail sport of brazilian jiu jitsu, the chad sport of judo has people writing academic papers on techniques at Korean (and I guess Japanese) universities. Defenestrategy posted:After reflecting on rolling yesterday everyone who does gi needs judo in their life its just too much of a disadvantage in grappling. My coach is bigger, stronger, more technically sound, but I was basically able to keep the game even because Ive been doing judo consistently for a year at this point so everytime I got into a scramble and was able to make it to my feet Id be able to basically negotiate that to a top position of some kind. Its not that hes never had to have a stand up game its just he never had the formal education for it and hes mega rusty having rarely to do standup outside of rolling against me since hes basically retired from comp. for no-gi its the same but with wrestling. Green Toad fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 30, 2024 |
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Apr 30, 2024 16:02
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| # ? Apr 30, 2024 18:02 |
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BJJ is a variant of judo that comes from changing rules. What distinguishes BJJ from judo and almost every other grappling art is that takedowns and pins will not win you the match outright. Only a submission does so. This leads naturally to a slower, less intense style. A judoka (or wrestler, or whatever) *could* have dominated the early UFCs just like Royce did. They didn't. Partly this is because Royce's brother set up the competition as a way to advertise Gracie jiu-jitsu. But it's also true that BJJ does pretty well when there are very few rules.
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Apr 30, 2024 17:12
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Count Roland posted:But it's also true that BJJ does pretty well when there are very few rules. I mean.... *hand waves at Sakuraba.* Edit: What I'm getting at is early UFC is basically a bunch of weirdos who know nothing about fighting outside of their limited rules set and Ken Shamrock, who is a freak. The minute someone confident in true MMA shows up the Gracie's start losing in ridiculous fashion to stuff like, getting kicked repeatedly because they won't stand up. Edit2: not to disparage bjj, both judo and bjj are incomplete forms of gi wrestling that do well in their respective areas but man you can get a power level bump by just doing both. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 30, 2024 |
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Apr 30, 2024 17:35
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judo and bjj have weird tactical strengths comparatively. Osaekomi is the extreme odd one as it gets applied, but the theory is that it demonstrates positional mastery, but any of us who have gotten past the clueless newbie phase of BJJ knows, 20 seconds is basically the blink of an eye and we've all had a round where we've seen one player get held down for a long time and then get out and submit their opponent. Does that make osaekomi dumb and silly? Well... we've also all seen MMA or street fight footage where the BJJ guy tries to play bottom in that sport BJJ style and gets flatlined by someone stomping on his head, whether the opponent or a third party. I've started to think of osaekomi as a no-brain-damage abstraction of that situation: control them and be on top and be in a position where you can get up if you see someone getting ready to do a Shibata impression. I think that in a self-defense situation I would end up relying on my judo (particularly grip fighting and balance) and boxing (particularly defensive footwork, shoulder roll, and my jab) more than my BJJ, but it is really nice knowing I have enough BJJ to be able to literally just grab most people and break something as a backup if I get cornered. Maybe judo's tactical strengths that the rulesets encourage (and abstract) are better fighting tactics when dealing with unknown situations and untrained opponents, and BJJ tends to be stronger against trained opponents and in mutual combat.
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Apr 30, 2024 18:02
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