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Oh I know now, animated design is very faithful. But I was unfamiliar with Bastion prior to this series other than knowing he existed.
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May 2, 2024 05:13
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Grem posted:I like how it's implied that Silver Samurai just stands at his windows in his armor all night. Maybe he was ready for a night out on the town. You don't know!
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May 2, 2024 06:04
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"Because when your skin's not in the game, apathy is your answer." is a helluva line considering the poo poo going on in the world right now. 
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May 2, 2024 13:47
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Grem posted:I like how it's implied that Silver Samurai just stands at his windows in his armor all night. You don't?
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May 2, 2024 14:47
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Codependent Poster posted:I'd like more Summers Family Adventures. I wouldn't say no to some sort of mashup of Scott & Jean go to the future to raise Nate and the Kid Cable series
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May 2, 2024 15:59
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For anyone watching X-Men '97, a music mashup producer I know (who is secretly my brother) mashed up the X-Men animated series theme with Whitney Houston's "I'm Your Baby Tonight," and I think it slaps. https://soundcloud.com/lwbuilder/youre-giving-me-x-tasy
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May 2, 2024 21:13
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Posting this here too for people's thoughts:khwarezm posted:Non-Xmen related question, was the DCAU the source of the modern tendency for Darkseid and the rest of Apokolips to be treated as a specifically anti-Superman opponent? I was just thinking because there's a parademon in the trailer for the new season of My Adventures With Superman.
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May 2, 2024 21:19
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There does seem to generally be more of a need for supervillains in comics while with hero characters there's often a glut of more than the company really needs because a lot of characters can't really sustain their own books. Orphaned villains will often get picked up somwhere even if their hero isn't available. I know with Marvel's Darkseid ripoff they generally forget about his origins on Saturn's moon Titan and his weird rapey brother.
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May 2, 2024 22:07
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khwarezm posted:Posting this here too for people's thoughts: Darkseid at least debuted in a Jimmy Olson comic and the New Gods ended up with a fair bit of crossover with Superman and Jimmy and all that, so he wasn't an explicit Superman villain but there wasn't no real connection either.
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May 2, 2024 22:48
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ImpAtom posted:Darkseid at least debuted in a Jimmy Olson comic That's still so funny to me. Its like if Doomsday first appeared in Superman's Girl Friend, Lois Lane.
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May 2, 2024 22:50
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If DC weren't cowards darkseid would be Jimmy's villain
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May 2, 2024 22:51
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site posted:If DC weren't cowards darkseid would be Jimmy's villain Look, you have to give Darkseid a fighting chance so people can take him seriously as a threat.
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May 2, 2024 23:00
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khwarezm posted:Posting this here too for people's thoughts: Darkseid is a god, he literally is tyranny. So he works best against the simplest, purest hero, the one that all other superheroes sprung from. Superman isn't just a good guy, he is the Goodest Guy. He's not technically divine, but he just is heroism nevertheless, so he can hang with Darkseid in that sorta superliminal space. Compare that to, for example, Wonder Woman, who's a demigoddess but is also a more complicated character, so when they try to put her up against Darkseid it fizzles off into Strong Lady Punching Glowy Rock Man.
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May 2, 2024 23:44
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Well, the thing that kind of irks me is the sidelining of the other New Gods and New Genesis in favour of making it a Darkseid vs Supes grudge match, it feels like its boiling away a lot of the very, very important background context that Darkseid comes from in the first place. Like Apokolips and New Genesis is one of the weirdest and most colourful things that ever came out of any comic book writer's mind, its great the way that Darkseid has a whole planet full of medieval weirdos to draw on and throw at the good guys, its even better when he's usually doing this against a diametrically opposed planet of good guy weirdos but nobody really cares about the likes of Orion any more it seems. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 23:53 on May 2, 2024 |
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May 2, 2024 23:50
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khwarezm posted:Well, the thing that kind of irks me is the sidelining of the other New Gods and Genesis in favour of making it a Darkseid vs Supes grudge match, it feels like its boiling away a lot of the very, very important background context that Darkseid comes from in the first place. Someone else said it, but that's because nobody cares about any characters from Genesis except Orion, Barda, and Mr. Miracle.
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May 2, 2024 23:53
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khwarezm posted:Well, the thing that kind of irks me is the sidelining of the other New Gods and New Genesis in favour of making it a Darkseid vs Supes grudge match, it feels like its boiling away a lot of the very, very important background context that Darkseid comes from in the first place. It occurs to me that you could maybe do a really interesting New Genesis vs. Apokolips story by taking away Darkseid. Make him a distant and unknowable god. Like, yeah, he probably exists, there are those statues everywhere and Glorious Godfrey says Darkseid speaks to him and bad stuff happens to people who try to overthrow the social order, but you've never seen him and you're not going to, you are an unimportant speck of dust in comparison. How would Desaad and Granny and Kalibak and everyone act in that sort of world, y'know? And what are the New Gods like if they're making war against a deity who may or may not exist but one they definitely can't destroy in any case?
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May 3, 2024 00:02
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ImpAtom posted:Darkseid at least debuted in a Jimmy Olson comic and the New Gods ended up with a fair bit of crossover with Superman and Jimmy and all that, so he wasn't an explicit Superman villain but there wasn't no real connection either. There's a nice moment when Superman appears in The Forever People where he gets a glimpse of New Genesis through a Boom Tube, and he wonders what it'd be like to live in a world where everyone was super.
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May 3, 2024 01:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know with Marvel's Darkseid ripoff they generally forget about his origins on Saturn's moon Titan and his weird rapey brother. Well they are both Eternals if I remember correctly.
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May 3, 2024 02:32
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I mean. If Young Justice ever gets another season, it's going to be Apokolips focused. All the groundwork has been set. And you already have the Forever People and Bug for the New Gods. That's really the last mention of New Genesis in any animated DC products, is it? Well, that and Gods & Monsters flipping the script a bit. (They should make another movie in the Gods & Monsters universe.)
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May 3, 2024 16:29
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Codependent Poster posted:Someone else said it, but that's because nobody cares about any characters from Genesis except Orion, Barda, and Mr. Miracle. You forgot Metron and the eternal jobber Lightray.
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May 3, 2024 17:38
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CapnAndy posted:They're all more complicated characters too, is the thing. This brings up a corollary to my earlier post, the fact that Darkseid and his minions more and more get used as recurring foes to Superman and the League has deteriorated Darkseid as much of a threat, when he shows up again and again and usually gets defeated and things reset to status quo he seems to be increasingly less of a terrifying, transcendent and nearly unstoppable manifestation of evil and more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain who angrily shakes his fist at Superman and the rest for foiling his plan to turn all of the ice cream in Metropolis sour so that the police would have stomach aches while he tries to kidnap the president and vowing to get them next time while Kalibak goes 'Duuuuuh, you get 'em pops!' and falls on head when they get out of the boom tube. I think he needs to be laid off from for some time and put back into the background so he comes across as a bit more serious when he does get used in the future, at least Thanos got proper build up over the Marvel movies and accordingly was a very memorable threat for a lot of people and a big watershed moment for the whole franchise. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 21:18
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The last episode of Superman: TAS had a good Darkseid moment. He pisses off Superman enough that Supes goes to Apokolips and absolutely thrashes him and very publicly beats the absolute poo poo out of him and dumps his barely conscious body in front of his slaves and Superman says, here, he's defeated he can't hurt you anymore. And the slaves just carefully pick up Darkseid and carry him off and Darkseid just says something like "Here I'm a God."
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May 3, 2024 21:43
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Air Skwirl posted:The last episode of Superman: TAS had a good Darkseid moment. He pisses off Superman enough that Supes goes to Apokolips and absolutely thrashes him and very publicly beats the absolute poo poo out of him and dumps his barely conscious body in front of his slaves and Superman says, here, he's defeated he can't hurt you anymore. And the slaves just carefully pick up Darkseid and carry him off and Darkseid just says something like "Here I'm a God." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTECNKpZAM4 An all-time, unforgettably great moment Freedom is not some eternal concept in peoples' brains, sadly. It's something they have to be taught, like anything else. (Superman TAS is smarter than a lot of politicians and philosophers, go figure) Also reflecting on this, plus watching some old X-men TAS episodes vs. '97 episodes, there's just such a different tone between the 90s Marvel cartoons, the DCAU, and X-Men '97. I'm not sure how to put it into words but while I do enjoy 90s Spiderman and X-Men, something about the presentation or tone is wildly, wildly different from the above clip or X-Men '97. It's not quality - there is quality to be found in the TAS shows, just.... different, so very different from the DCAU.
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May 3, 2024 22:04
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NikkolasKing posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTECNKpZAM4 I know what you mean, and honestly is one of the reasons I sort of wish X-Men '97 was just its own thing because its far, far better than its supposed predecessor. I think that era of Marvel cartoons was overwhelmingly still stuck in a Saturday morning cartoon mode where there was next to no subtly in basically anything, and it wasn't helped by the almost comically strict censorship they were saddled with compared to the DCAU. I mean for God's sake, one episode of Superman TAS (generally considered to be the lightest DCAU show) had a bent cop get executed on screen, and another episode went as far as it could possibly go to insinuate that Parasite was a sexual predator towards Livewire.
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May 3, 2024 22:11
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khwarezm posted:This brings up a corollary to my earlier post, the fact that Darkseid and his minions more and more get used as recurring foes to Superman and the League has deteriorated Darkseid as much of a threat, when he shows up again and again and usually gets defeated and things reset to status quo he seems to be increasingly less of a terrifying, transcendent and nearly unstoppable manifestation of evil and more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain who angrily shakes his fist at Superman and the rest for foiling his plan to turn all of the ice cream in Metropolis sour so that the police would have stomach aches while he tries to kidnap the president and vowing to get them next time while Kalibak goes 'Duuuuuh, you get 'em pops!' and falls on head when they get out of the boom tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZuo0B24IzM
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May 3, 2024 22:53
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khwarezm posted:This brings up a corollary to my earlier post, the fact that Darkseid and his minions more and more get used as recurring foes to Superman and the League has deteriorated Darkseid as much of a threat, when he shows up again and again and usually gets defeated and things reset to status quo he seems to be increasingly less of a terrifying, transcendent and nearly unstoppable manifestation of evil and more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain who angrily shakes his fist at Superman and the rest for foiling his plan to turn all of the ice cream in Metropolis sour so that the police would have stomach aches while he tries to kidnap the president and vowing to get them next time while Kalibak goes 'Duuuuuh, you get 'em pops!' and falls on head when they get out of the boom tube. I disagree, it's all in how he's defeated. As in the below TAS example, he loses, definitively... and yet he also wins, utterly. Like, what more could Superman do? Kill him? And as another example, he was used in a recent arc of World's Finest, where Superman and Batman travel to the Kingdom Come timeline, and there's 2 very cool details in how Waid uses him: One, there's the first real use of the idea that there's only one Darkseid, across all timelines/universes. And secondly, he's treated as a basically existential threat where if the McGuffin reaches him, it's game over, there's no actual fighting him. Like, the ending has Magog kill his mentor/creator Gog, to prevent his part of the Anti-Life Equation being taken by Darkseid and big D just... walks away. Like, he doesn't even give enough of a poo poo to kill Magog, he's unimportant. Sure, the heroes won, but it doesn't feel like Darkseid was diminished in the telling.
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May 4, 2024 00:36
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NikkolasKing posted:Also reflecting on this, plus watching some old X-men TAS episodes vs. '97 episodes, there's just such a different tone between the 90s Marvel cartoons, the DCAU, and X-Men '97. I'm not sure how to put it into words but while I do enjoy 90s Spiderman and X-Men, something about the presentation or tone is wildly, wildly different from the above clip or X-Men '97. It's not quality - there is quality to be found in the TAS shows, just.... different, so very different from the DCAU. A lot of the unique identity of the DCAU shows, as my brain understands it, stems from them being the non-comedy outgrowth of the TV animation war that started between Disney and Warners in the late 80s. Ducktales showed up and kinda re-jiggered the standards for TV cartoons in America, which resulted in WB (the second most popular animation brand in America) teamed up with Spielberg and a killer's row of talent for Tiny Toons, many of whom would go on to produce BTAS and it's progeny Marvel's shows in comparison felt a lot more orthodox which was probably down to how they were created. X-Men was a good show at the time, maybe even is a good show in general depending on the episode you watch, but it felt more like an evolution of existing stuff like GI Joe and G1 Transformers than the whole new animal that Batman was. If I was feeling optimistic, I'd wonder about X-Men 97 signaling another shift in the kind of superhero cartoons being produced for "TV", but years of hokum have kind of depleted my hype meter. Well, that combined with Polygon Pictures producing the new Spider-Man show and WBD shrugging so hard that the retro-styled new Batman show ended up in Amazon's hands. At least we've still got cute anime Superman.
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May 4, 2024 01:15
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B:TAS was definitely headed towards somewhere focused on the artful and stylized side of things. I don't really know many of the details about the production teams. X-Men I know had some kind of deal where they lost their animation studio for the last season and got a low quality one to finish out the show. Maybe that reflects some broader instability of the production team behind the show so reverything kinda crumpled by the end to leave empty ground for animated Marvel to be reborn differently, while B:TAS gave way to the whole DCAU juggernaut that kept going and maintained thematic consistency for a very long while. Both shows reflect a rise in the standard of animation at the time. B:TAS being "artful" also meant that it was more intelligently designed for animation, they developed a whole new style and focused a lot on how things could move smoothly (and S:TAS refined that movement even more so Superman had some beautiful smearing across the screen). X-Men was just trying to straight-up copy a lot of the style of the comics, and left in way more little details that had to be painted in. Characters have much more defined muscles. In the first two seasons it was common for most characters to have basically 4 levels of lighting: base color, highlights to make it shiny, shadows, and then a thick inking effect that gives extra depth to the shadows. Sometimes there's even more lighting levels. Often there's a lot of more complicated VFX like transparent layers, airbrushed effects, whatever the hell Gambit's charging texture was. It seems kinda natural that the animation studio would burn out on all that effortful work. The DCAU seemed much more economical. Narratively, the difference between the DCAU and 90s animated Marvel seems pretty driven by the comics. The DCAU going for a retro aesthetic helped them play into the simpled episodic format with a new villain with a new scheme every episode. Marvel comics generally focused a lot more on the soap opera side of things and characters constantly getting wrapped up in their own deal rather than go out and find new evildoers.
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May 4, 2024 02:43
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Gaz-L posted:I disagree, it's all in how he's defeated. As in the below TAS example, he loses, definitively... and yet he also wins, utterly. Like, what more could Superman do? Kill him? I mean, yeah, probably. At the end of the episode "twilight" in Justice League Superman stays behind for the specific purpose of making absolutely sure that Darkseid dies along with Brainiac, and he basically succeeds. The end of Superman TAS is a good Darkseid moment but before that there's some episodes where he's got that issue of just being the recurring baddie with some scheme the heroes stop while he grumbles and punishes an underling, in the Supergirl two-parter he's trying to drop a comet on Earth and after he's foiled gets mad and has Granny Goodness tortured because of it. I think Darkseid probably gets it worse in the DC Animated movies than the original DCAU, he just shows up too much to try and up the threat level for various movies, and it feels kind of lazy. Reign of the Supermen was bad for this since they use him to replace the role Mongul originally played in the comics alongside Hank Henshaw. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 12:26 on May 4, 2024 |
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May 4, 2024 12:18
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khwarezm posted:I mean, yeah, probably. At the end of the episode "twilight" in Justice League Superman stays behind for the specific purpose of making absolutely sure that Darkseid dies along with Brainiac, and he basically succeeds. I feel he worked fine in Superman cause it was not him doing the confrontations, but his minions. In Twilight after the fight with Superman he calls Superman a loser for not being able to finish him off.
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May 4, 2024 16:19
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NikkolasKing posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTECNKpZAM4 I'll admit a huge help is how incredible Darwyn Cooke's work is in these episodes. He was THE MAN on a lot of Superman TAS and especially the Legacy 2 parter and the incredible storytelling he contributed plus his addition to the art really helps. drat I miss that guy, what a loss.
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May 4, 2024 18:30
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Darkseid's perceived villain decay is exactly why Grant Morrison did Final Crisis to both reaffirm his position as one of DC's top villains and to subsequently take him off the table for a good while
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May 4, 2024 23:10
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Darkseid was voiced by Welker in the 80s Superpowers cartoon. His only interest was to get Wonder Woman to marry him. I’d like to see that version come back.
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May 4, 2024 23:58
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Watching Crisis on Infinite Earths pt1 This movie suuuuucks the art is gross and off-putting The script is kind of baffling All around, awful But I’m far enough in that I guess I’m committed to another 5 hours of this E: Finished part 1, Holy poo poo that sucked Feels like a fever dream, in a bad way Sockser fucked around with this message at 01:11 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 00:35
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Speaking of, it seems to be confirmed that this dreck was the last Batman adjacent project Kevin Conroy leant his voice to prior to his death and both he and Mark Hamill’s Joker will be making an appearance in the third and final movie: https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1785315889761419409
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May 5, 2024 01:48
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Sockser posted:Watching Crisis on Infinite Earths pt1 Oh god, yes. I watched this last week. It was uniquely terrible, even for DTV DC animated shlock.
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May 5, 2024 03:14
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is that the one where the gif that i think was someone here's av for a long time where hal jordan gets knocked down and then two parademons just start ground and pounding him immediately came from
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May 5, 2024 03:21
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Alaois posted:is that the one where the gif that i think was someone here's av for a long time where hal jordan gets knocked down and then two parademons just start ground and pounding him immediately came from No, that movie is actually fine and watchable, and even coherent The Crisis on Infinite Earths three film series is all new this year
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May 5, 2024 06:51
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Everyone has very strong cheek bones in it lol
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