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anyone doing dry feb?
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Jan 27, 2023 14:13
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Isometric Bacon posted:What is this Dry January nonsense? It doesn't even rhyme. Here in down under land we have Dry July.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:51
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:anyone doing dry feb? honk honk
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Jan 27, 2023 15:00
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blight rhino posted:full disclosure. heavy drinker, here. tbh it was a momentum thing for me, similar to quitting smoking cigs. I set a goal, started doing it and it eventually got to the point where I didn't want to break the streak more than I wanted a beer after work or while hanging out with friends. I swapped in NAs when the itch needed to be scratched but otherwise found out that I'm actually much more comfortable in a lot of situations sober than I remember being. Also, just like with quitting smoking, holy poo poo the amount of money I'm saving is loving AWESOME. That's a HUGE motivator.
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Jan 27, 2023 15:36
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Lol I'm gaining weight while sober because I'm more hungry than usual. Also aggravating my IBS, woohoo But the benefits STILL outweigh the cons so I'm sticking through with it and will continue with drinking a lot less this year
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Jan 27, 2023 15:37
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blight rhino posted:full disclosure. heavy drinker, here. The hardest time, early sobriety, I just tried to stay busy. The first few weeks were the hardest because I had to relearn how to deal with boredom sober. I played a lot of video games and made a point to go to bed early since I'd always done my drinking late at night. Eventually i settled into a routine of early-morning gym, then work, and in bed before 10. On the weekends I tried to get outdoors as much as possible. I was also hitting a few AA meetings per week. It gets easier. If sobriety really sucked nobody would stay sober. Grats to all the goons reevaluating their relationship with drinking. When I quit it became obvious how much I'd bought into the alcohol industry's lies about drinking. You're not weak or uncool or boring if you realize it's all bullshit.
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Jan 27, 2023 15:58
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Taking a break, and the relative ease with which that happened, caused me to pause, look at the alcohol consumption percentile charts, and conclude the following (the percentile chart from WaPO is on google and also earlier in this thread). Napkin math is: * If you drink more than one drink every two weeks, you already are outdrinking half the country. * If we remove the 30% of Americans who don't drink at all from the equation, then if you drink more than 1.5 drinks in a week, you're still outdrinking half the remaining group. * Finally, even if we remove the 30% of Americans who drink less than a drink a week, so we're only comparing ourselves to the 40% most booze-happy people.... if you have a drink a day, you're still outdrinking half of 'em. * A single 16oz of most of the beers I like is 2+ drinks, so, statistically, having a single can of beer a month means I consume more alcohol than half the country. And of course alcohol is carcinogenic at any dose etc etc. Pretty hosed up! Probably ought to set some hard limits for myself and stick to them, since I don't actually like the subjective effects of alcohol nearly as much as weed anyway. Dry january has been almost a non event, weed free January would be insomnia and aggravation. That 90th percentile is a doozy, 10 drinks a day!!
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Jan 28, 2023 11:45
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E: crap post March on to Tuesday!
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Jan 28, 2023 13:27
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:anyone doing dry feb? Yeah, going to wean off the NA beers to cut out the extra liquid calories in Feb and try to drop a few KGs.
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Jan 28, 2023 13:30
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Taking a break, and the relative ease with which that happened, caused me to pause, look at the alcohol consumption percentile charts, and conclude the following (the percentile chart from WaPO is on google and also earlier in this thread). Napkin math is: I think that most people are lying about how much booze they consume and that these charts and statistics should be in the same category as "Nate Silver Predictions", which is to say they are probably kinda true but the numbers are wrong
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Jan 28, 2023 18:39
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It's not impossible, but I don't think people have much motivation to lie about having 2 drinks a week instead of 3. Even if you dismiss the % who don't drink at all as ultrareligious or AA, there are a lot of people, especially older people, who just don't really think about alcohol and only have a drink when someone shows up with a bottle at Christmas.
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Jan 28, 2023 19:33
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i like nice words
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Taking a break, and the relative ease with which that happened, caused me to pause, look at the alcohol consumption percentile charts, and conclude the following (the percentile chart from WaPO is on google and also earlier in this thread). Napkin math is: Listen, its nice to be an overachiever on something ok.
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Jan 28, 2023 20:25
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Yeah I'd like to see those numbers with say 18 to 50 year olds or something. When I had to get an MRI for something totally unrelated the doctor asked me how much I drank and I told the truth and she was like "you know that's quite a lot right?" lol.
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Jan 28, 2023 20:27
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I can spell Frebrurary.
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Jan 28, 2023 20:36
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Anne Whateley posted:It's not impossible, but I don't think people have much motivation to lie about having 2 drinks a week instead of 3. Even if you dismiss the % who don't drink at all as ultrareligious or AA, there are a lot of people, especially older people, who just don't really think about alcohol and only have a drink when someone shows up with a bottle at Christmas. Fair, but I’ve seen these statistics in the past and always find myself wondering why (except for a handful of folks in recovery or who just abstain all altogether for personal reasons, and that’s not many), I never seem to run into people from the 2 drinks a week crowd. Maybe the circles I run in are just uh… extra fun. I do wonder about the kind of: “I jus had two officers, beer” underreporting that people drinking a borderline problematic amount might tell their doctors about.
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Jan 28, 2023 22:12
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Yeah I think that's the circles you run in. I think there are a lot of people who go out to dinner on the weekend and have 1-2 beers or cocktails or glasses of wine with dinner
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Jan 28, 2023 22:49
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My 75 year old 100lb mom has two vodka martinis every night. Yeah, it really runs in the family.
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Jan 28, 2023 23:19
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Anne Whateley posted:Yeah I think that's the circles you run in. I think there are a lot of people who go out to dinner on the weekend and have 1-2 beers or cocktails or glasses of wine with dinner I quit drinking in my early 20s as soon as I found people who smoke weed to hang out with instead. As a result most people I know don't drink. I'm probably the only one who "Doesn't Drink" as in I will turn down a drink when offered or say no when invited to the bar, and the only one who would answer a poll by saying I don't drink, but I bet if you were to measure the amount of drinking most people in my circle of acquaintances do it would be less than one per month. I'm in a recreational weed state though, and there was definitely a big schism between drinkers and smokers in the years after highschool. I'd say the large majority went the smoking and/or not actively drinking route and then the drinkers had to move from big house parties to little bar gatherings. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 23:27
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bagmonkey posted:I think that most people are lying about how much booze they consume and that these charts and statistics should be in the same category as "Nate Silver Predictions", which is to say they are probably kinda true but the numbers are wrong If anything I would expect people to downplay it out of willfully being blind plus the basic fact that a "drink" from a bar is 2-4 "drinks" based on alcohol unit which is what these stats are based on. I know as many people who drink weekly or less, as who drink daily, or don't drink at all. Pretty much a 1/3 split in my circles. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 00:55
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Anne Whateley posted:It's not impossible, but I don't think people have much motivation to lie about having 2 drinks a week instead of 3. Even if you dismiss the % who don't drink at all as ultrareligious or AA, there are a lot of people, especially older people, who just don't really think about alcohol and only have a drink when someone shows up with a bottle at Christmas. https://liquorlaboratory.com/how-much-does-the-average-american-drink/ So you're telling me that there's like, 0.5% of people drinking like 18 drinks a day while the majority of people don't drink at all? I don't think so, Tim What happens is people see the form which says "1-3 drinks per week" "3-5 drinks per week" "5+ drinks per week" and feel guilty about selecting 5+ a week and also don't want to be bothered by the doctor about it, so they select 3-5 a week because they only drink 2-3 nights a week and it's only like 1-3 drinks a night, but reality is that's actually a lowball estimate and they are in the 10+ a week crowd. Hope that helps paint the picture for the average American answering that question. The sober crowd really misjudges how savage the rest of Americans are with their drinking habits, like you and others have said you don't go to bars, so how do you know that culture?
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Jan 29, 2023 00:55
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Cabbages and Kings posted:If anything I would expect people to downplay it out of willfully being blind plus the basic fact that a "drink" from a bar is 2-4 "drinks" based on alcohol unit which is what these stats are based on I should've said "Most people aren't being honest with their doctor about their alcohol intake", and what you said is a MAJOR reason why all of these studies and "well in this self reported study" things are just... wrong, like Nate Silver wrong. If the options were... 0 Drinks Per Week 1-5 Drinks Per Week 6-10 Drinks Per Week 10-20 Drinks Per Week 20+ Drinks Per Week you would probably get results that are MUCH closer to reality because people are going to feel a lot less guilty about selecting 6-10 instead of the absolute top limit of 5+
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Jan 29, 2023 00:57
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Dry January is going p good btw, I finished a big project overhauling some poo poo in my office and I'm probably gonna go out to the bar where my friends are throwing a dance party to let off some steam tonight, that should be p fun
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Jan 29, 2023 00:58
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bagmonkey posted:https://liquorlaboratory.com/how-much-does-the-average-american-drink/ this is an interesting idea but myriad studies into this using different methodologies have all come to the same basic conclusion, and people who compulsively use an addictive substance tend to want to distort reality in a way that normalizes that, so I'm going to stick with "multiple studies over a decades long timeframe with different methodologies which are peer reviewed and come to similar conclusions are, probably, reasonably accurate". I do think that there may be some amount of failure to understand what a "drink" is, and wishful thinking, but every serious inquiry into this has attempted to control for all these factors in some way. And yes, I absolutely believe that 10% of people have 10+ drinks a day, and that 30% of adult Americans don't drink at all. I've had a lot of exposure to alcoholism and the culture around it and theorhetical recovery, as well as some amount of experience with fervently religious family, etc. 18 drinks a day ain't even that much, I knew a lady who was on a case of beer and a 1.75 of vodka per day when she landed in recovery -- I think that's somewhere north of 100 alcoholic drinks per day, as counted by "alcohol units"? Nothing in any of these studies is surprising to me, and I do tend to take it at face value. Studies demonstrating that very small doses of alcohol are none the less carcinogenic, are numerous and widely reported from time to time. People tend to ignore this stuff if they like booze, and also if they don't like booze. The NHANES I dataset goes back to 1971 so there's at least fifty years of data that all points in more or less the same direction, and likewise it's become common knowledge that the US is one of the drunkest countries e: and my name isn't tim, thx  Cabbages4Ever
Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 01:13
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 You're asking people to be honest in a country where half the country voted for Donald J Trump. You're not gonna convince me that the data is good just because they ran the same test a lot, sorry. I think America is even drunker than you guys do and I don't know why you keep arguing with me about that lol
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Jan 29, 2023 01:22
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bagmonkey posted:
because you're dismissing 50 years of serious clinical research based on gut feels and hand waving, and I have a pathological inability to let things go.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:23
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Another thing worth noting is that people who don't drink normally don't publicize it, because it tends to draw a lot of judgment. I'm not saying this is true of anyone ITT but a whole lot of people will flat tell you they don't trust someone who doesn't drink, but they'll insist on knowing why you don't drink. The same people tend to take "I'm a recovering alcoholic" as an acceptable answer but any other reason for not drinking makes you "weird". So they would answer a poll saying they don't drink, but they're not exactly pointing out to you often in your IRL interactions that they don't drink - especially if you are a known heavy drinker. e: Also bagmonkey your insistence that everyone drinks more than they say they do is a telltale sign of alcoholic tendencies 
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 01:23
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Cabbages and Kings posted:because you're dismissing 50 years of serious clinical research based on gut feels and hand waving, and I have a pathological inability to let things go. 50 years ago they were electroshocking people and beating children who didn't behave, believed gay people were sick with mental illness, etc. We can keep going at this but I think the science is off and I ain't gonna change my mind on that
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Jan 29, 2023 01:28
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deep dish peat moss posted:Another thing worth noting out is that people who don't drink normally don't publicize it, because it tends to draw a lot of judgment. I'm not saying this is true of anyone ITT but a whole lot of people will flat tell you they don't trust someone who doesn't drink, but they'll insist on knowing why you don't drink. The same people tend to take "I'm a recovering alcoholic" as an acceptable answer but any other reason for not drinking makes you "weird". oh yea, this is tremendous and is a  moment for some people. I know a recovered alcoholic who phrased it as, "alcohol in America is so normalized in certain social and professional circles, that if you don't use it it's seen as a sign of weakness or there's something wrong with you". And yea it's kinda hosed up that "this stuff almost killed me" is a fine reason to not use it but "I just don't like it" makes people assume that you're an alkie and just lying about it. I enjoy riding motorcycles but when people tell me they find them scary and unsafe I don't assume they drove themselves to financial ruin with bike addiction or something. Can it be both things at once, though? 30% of people don't imbibe, 30% of people imbibe so infrequently that it barely makes a blip, but the capricious behavior of the other 40%, combined with the sort of silent consent of the "drinks but barely" 30%, combined with an incredibly well-funded and entrenched alcohol lobbying machine, allows this poo poo to stay that normalized despite it being 10% of the population consuming 90% of the alcohol? Sounds weird, but, it's a society where 10% of the population controls 90% of the resources, so, anything is possible and yah I am stickin with clinical data over gut feels bagmonkey posted:50 years ago they were electroshocking people and beating children who didn't behave, believed gay people were sick with mental illness, etc. We can keep going at this but I think the science is off and I ain't gonna change my mind on that And all of these things, and the reasons they were awful, are well documented in more modern medical literature  There's plenty of data on this; efforts have been made to, say, reconcile the output of these studies with actual sales data, etc. It's a pretty thick stack of intertangled data put together by thousands of people over decades that you're dumpstering. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 01:28
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I'll be joining in dry january just in time for february.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:28
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Cabbages and Kings posted:
Yeah, I'm gonna stick with my gut on this one and say that Americans drink more than they report that they do. Sorry dude.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:33
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bagmonkey posted:Yeah, I'm gonna stick with my gut on this one and say that Americans drink more than they report that they do. Sorry dude. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
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Jan 29, 2023 01:34
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bagmonkey posted:Yeah, I'm gonna stick with my gut on this one and say that Americans drink more than they report that they do. Sorry dude. you're entitled to your obstinate belief that you're smarter than the combined wisdom of hundreds of people who have made understanding this issue part of their life's work and you do not need to apologize to me for that, or to them, or to anyone. side thought: all these charts and stats are pre-2020, and we do know that the pandemic, at least in the mid term, has substantially increased alcohol consumption. Whether that's a blip or not is something we won't know for a while. Similarly, alcohol consumption in the US generally increased between 2000-2002 and 2010-2012. The latter is already accounted for in the data sets we have. There's not much mystery here since this is a federally taxed thing and it's pretty easy to square these studies with overall alcohol sales (and, as I said, such studies exist). So, unless you imagine that there's enough bootlegging happening to substantially change the math...
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Jan 29, 2023 01:35
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bagmonkey posted:Yeah, I'm gonna stick with my gut on this one and say that Americans drink more than they report that they do. Sorry dude. The mental cartwheels addicts do.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:36
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deep dish peat moss posted:This is a very well-studied area of psychology and addiction studies I mean, I'm glad the all-the-time sober people came to hijack the thread about people who are sober-curious to argue about science, because that's been pretty much my exact experience with Very Sober People in the past lol I appreciate you guys trying to correct me, but have you tried just like, being supportive of people that are trying to change their lives instead of having to be right?
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Jan 29, 2023 01:37
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bagmonkey posted:I mean, I'm glad the all-the-time sober people came to hijack the thread about people who are sober-curious to argue about science, because that's been pretty much my exact experience with Very Sober People in the past lol I appreciate you guys trying to correct me, but have you tried just like, being supportive of people that are trying to change their lives instead of having to be right? Hey look it's the other thing I posted about on this page, in action: deep dish peat moss posted:Another thing worth noting is that people who don't drink normally don't publicize it, because it tends to draw a lot of judgment. I'm not saying this is true of anyone ITT but a whole lot of people will flat tell you they don't trust someone who doesn't drink, but they'll insist on knowing why you don't drink. The same people tend to take "I'm a recovering alcoholic" as an acceptable answer but any other reason for not drinking makes you "weird". Anyway the reason people are "not being supportive" of you is because the things you are saying are well-studied ways of justifying addiction, and breaking those mindsets is the first thing that needs to happen for meaningful recovery. Source: I got a degree in substance abuse counseling.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:38
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bagmonkey posted:I mean, I'm glad the all-the-time sober people came to hijack the thread about people who are sober-curious to argue about science,  I have a kegerator and there's a flask on the shelf behind me, I love booze! i also have basically no horse in the race of whether you are right or wrong, but if you're trying to improve your life I hope you are successful
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Jan 29, 2023 01:38
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Well, that was a fun thread guys, hope everyone had a fun dry January!
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Jan 29, 2023 01:39
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