|
Endorph posted:thats not really an experiment thats always been a thing It's weirdly underwhelming if anything. Jade's LC has 16% Crit Rate and 64% DMG boost + 16% DEF ignore that are both easy to trigger, while Firefly gets 60% BE and a conditional, backloaded 15% DMG taken plus 15% SPD debuff? You might genuinely prefer Misha's LC just for the Crit Rate buff. I'm fully expecting Firefly's LC to get a bit of a rework tbh
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 15:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 00:48 |
|
|
I'm fine not getting Jade's lc because I have Jing Yuan's, and it's still pretty cracked. I might wish I had Boothill's, but I need Topaz's more.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 15:28
|
|
|
The erudition cone is coming to Herta's store too but the leak info is missing something like how its effect stacks. (It's in the form of crit damage on fua/ult and then some attack percent for attacking a broken target)
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 16:28
|
|
|
Endorph posted:also firesam uses the same destruction mats as jingliu and misha and the same fire mats as gallagher, so the only thing you cant prefarm for her right now are the weekly boss mats. (whichll be available in 2.2) happy hunting hooray!!!
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 16:29
|
|
|
Firefly's light cone seems specifically tailored for HTB's Super Break damage. HTB can effectively enable Quad-DPS comps, since Super Break lets Ruan Mei, Break Asta, and Gallagher do big damage numbers in their own rights, and her LC's damage increase would buff it for the whole team. The speed reduction can also let them squeeze in an extra attack before they recover. Lasting 2 turns lets the debuff last through RM's break extension as well. It does seem like it'd lose a ton of value if you want to put her in any other teams, like a more standard Crit-Hypercarry team with Bronya/Sparkle.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
I guess it's possible to just not build crit at all on her, and just go all in on ATK. Then you just consider that massive 580% multiplier being the same as like, Kafka's 290% DOT triggering twice? Or a 290% multiplier with a 100%/200% crit value. Then you just staple her to Harmony TB at all times to squeeze more value out of her BE. But I'm kinda skeptical about always pairing her with Harmony TB since Boothill testing has already kinda showed that Harmony TB does have some awkwardness when you're not fighting Imaginary-weak enemies, being that they're too backloaded when they can't contribute any toughness damage themselves. I'm not sure if it isn't better to just go the crit route, even if you can't get very high crit value with her.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 17:33
|
|
|
So Jade won't really find a home on an all IPC team (Ratio, Topaz, Aventurine)?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:07
|
|
|
Daner T posted:So Jade won't really find a home on an all IPC team (Ratio, Topaz, Aventurine)? Aventurine is probably good synergy since he does a lot of aoe attacks, but follow-ups come a distant second to aoe in her kit.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:10
|
|
|
At first blush she does not seem to be immediately good in the IPC team but it also depends on encounter design. If it's a fight with annoying adds that you don't want to blow Ratio and Topaz on you can put her buff on Aventurine and use his FUA to build stacks for her own FUA to clear out the sides while still benefiting from Numby's debuff on the main target.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:10
|
|
|
I kind of doubt she will ever be "good" outside of PF. She is very optimized to fight swarms of weaklings. Like, in that situation you describe you'd probably be better off bringing a buffer or something.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:12
|
|
|
Himeko Topaz is a legit team in MoC so I don't see how this is any different.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:14
|
|
|
Because she's far more optimized for aoe than Himeko?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:16
|
|
|
So? Do Himeko, Topaz, Jade. One thing I like about Jade is that she doesn't consume a lot of skill points and hopefully just generates sp. I think she's going to be great in Pure Fiction, but I think she'll be fine in MoC. It depends on what her final numbers look like.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:42
|
|
|
Jade seems like she could work well with Jing Yuan since he hits everyone with his skill and ult and lightning lord.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:47
|
|
|
Bad Video Games posted:So? Do Himeko, Topaz, Jade. We are once again back to "you'd be better off bringing a buffer" territory. Even Asta or Tingyun will easily add more damage to that team, that's not even in question. Like, use whatever team you want, it's your game, but that doesn't mean she will be good at things she is not good at. Of course, they can always tweak her numbers during beta, but I don't think she was ever meant to replace a Harmony?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 20:49
|
|
|
That said, one thing that remains unclear about Jade's kit is how she generates energy. She has a fairly expensive ult (140), and unlike most dps is stuck doing basic attacks 3/4 of the time. Which is good for SP efficiency, but pretty bad for energy; she'd need a whopping 6 actions to get an ult. Which leaves the bulk of her energy generation to her follow-ups, probably? But you're only triggering those once every 3-4 turns outside of AOE situations (even with 2 targets and both her and her teammate hitting both every time, it would take 2 actions each). Of course, she might just have a basic attack that generates more than normal, anything's possible.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 21:23 on May 5, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 21:18
|
|
|
Her basic is an aoe hit, so it probably generates 20 + 5(number of hits). Something like that? She might even be a good candidate for the 3 star cone that generates energy. It's not horrible on Argenti in the right conditions.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 21:23
|
|
|
Most AOE attacks do not generate extra energy per target, but it's true that it can work however the hell they want it to. The 3* cone would probably not be great since it only works when using a skill, which she literally cannot do on 3/4 of her turns.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 21:24
|
|
|
Hadn't looked at the cone in a while so I forgot that part. As for her energy, I'm sure it'll come out in the beta. Maybe they'll modify a trace or talent to address that. I'd rather she get more energy as a major trace than the 50% advance forward, but I might be alone in that. I'm really looking forward to getting Jade so I hope she's at least usable outside of Pure Fiction. If you want a Harmony support for team IPC, just get Robin. That's literally what she's made for. I think Jade will be a decent addition to that team, with the caveat that you have Topaz's and Aventurine's lightcones to enable Ratio. But you need those cones to have a Harmony on that team as well, unless you like gambling on Ratio's follow-up. I also think she'll be a great addition to Quinque mono Quantum if the enemy is weak to that element. Jade, Sparkle, QQ, and Fu/Lynx would probably go hard.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 21:45
|
|
|
The 50% start of battle advance is obviously so she can place her buff before anyone else acts, and effectively gives her a free (half) turn to make up for the penalty of wasting her turn on a buff.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 21:54
|
|
|
Jade looks very PF oriented. I didn't expect her FuA to take 8 stacks, which is a lot. I thought it'd be 5 to push her. I'm not super enthused about rolling a PF only unit.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:00
|
|
|
I'm just sayin I think she'll be able to get you 36 in MoC just fine.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:19
|
|
|
In the sense that literally anyone can, at least. Honestly, it's probably too early to judge, but her numbers look like crap to me.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:22
|
|
|
She does kind of need her e1. Hoyo has been pretty good about ironing out some of these weird things in beta, so I'm confident most of the edges will be smoothed over. Honestly, if I could afford Robin and Boothill, then I might pivot. Since I can't, it's Boothill, and maybe I skip 2.3.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:29
|
|
|
Her FUA does more damage than Himeko's with an easier trigger, her Ult does more damage than Himeko's and then it massively buffs her FUA. The only advantage Himeko has is that her skill does twice as much damage as Jade's basic which, I mean, it's a skill vs a basic. Plus she ramps up towards a free 25% ATK and 150% cdmg I think she's going to be pretty nutty in PF and alright elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:35
|
|
|
Her FUA has a harder trigger than Himeko's outside of aoe situations, and deals less damage unless you ult first, except you can't ult because she generates no energy. She also can't build up crit damage stacks unless she uses her FUA, which she can't do outside of aoe situations. Oh, and not only can she not use skills to deal damage (and her basic attack is weaker single target than an ordinary basic attack, lol), she has to waste every 4th action refreshing a buff that's basically Tingyun's buff except way worse. Oh and unlike Tingyun she actually needs good gear to function. Clarste fucked around with this message at 22:42 on May 5, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:40
|
|
|
Eej posted:Her FUA does more damage than Himeko's with an easier trigger, her Ult does more damage than Himeko's and then it massively buffs her FUA. The only advantage Himeko has is that her skill does twice as much damage as Jade's basic which, I mean, it's a skill vs a basic. Plus she ramps up towards a free 25% ATK and 150% cdmg I think she's going to be pretty nutty in PF and alright elsewhere. I think we're on the same page here. I just wish her e1 was part of her base kit, and I hope it gets moved there before release. Let her get 2 charges every time instead of 1. Considering the power level of Acheron, Boothill, and Sam, I really don't think that would be too overpowered. It would basically let her follow-up every turn, which I think is pretty reasonable.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:41
|
|
|
Also Jade isn't the same element as Topaz, which is the only reason that Himeko combo even slightly works.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:43
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Her FUA has a harder trigger than Himeko's outside of aoe situations, and deals less damage unless you ult first, except you can't ult because she generates no energy. She also can't build up crit damage stacks unless she uses her FUA, which she can't do outside of aoe situations. Oh, and not only can she not use skills to deal damage (and her basic attack is weaker single target than an ordinary basic attack, lol), she has to waste every 4th action refreshing a buff that's basically Tingyun's buff except way worse. You wouldn't bring Himeko to a purely single target fight so I don't know why Jade is being compared to that situation here. I'm talking about like 3+ target cleave fights or 2 elites with lots of lovely adds you'd rather clear but not explicitly focus down. That being said I would absolutely take 30 speed over 55% ATK idk why you'd call it way worse.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 22:54
|
|
|
I was imagining a two target fight. There are certainly MoC bosses that are aoe situations (deer, bugs, Argenti, etc), but the more recent ones (meme, Sam, Aventurine) are not. Maybe that'll change by 2.3, who knows? Clarste fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 5, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 23:04
|
|
|
There's also decent synergy with Blade. Makes me wish I had him.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 23:04
|
|
|
Well apparently there's going to be a triple elite fight (spoiler for future encounters?) coming up in the next patch so that might be time to reassess.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 23:16
|
|
|
With the new mode being released, I imagine MoC will regress to more, but weaker, enemies. Enough to differentiate it from the other modes, at least.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 23:25
|
|
|
Endorph posted:thats not really an experiment thats always been a thing Then what's going on with Arle's sig weapon? I don't remember other weapons having specific special effects like her scythe. Otherwise I'm sure it has been done with HI3.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2024 23:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 00:48 |
|
|
HI3 is something else entirely. Weapons are just extensions of a character's kit and you basically need them for full functionality. To the point that they changed the weapon + stigma banner in Part 2 so that you're rolling specifically for the weapon and you will guaranteed get all the stigmas on the way to Weapon pity (a stigma's pity used to be the same value as the weapon's).
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2024 00:33
|
|