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He planned to eat some dry ice so that his wounds would "smolder".
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Aug 11, 2011 07:07
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Doibhilin posted:I think this is important. I liked what he was doing there--revenge is fun--but it did not ring true at all. That did not feel like Jon Snow. If he didn't break his vows to join Robb and avenge Ned, is he really going to bail on the Night's Watch when he is Lord Commander in the middle of the greatest threat the Watch has faced in millenia? I don't think so. I think there's something more to the last Jon chapter. On the other hand, all Jon knows is that arya is the last member left of his family and the one he was closest to, and that she's being held captive by a man who gets off on skinning people alive, walling them up to starve to death, and huntingwomen with dogs. Plus while the nights watch is sworn to be neutral in events of the 7 kingdoms, does that still apply if they're directly threatened first?
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Aug 11, 2011 08:53
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We know the maesters hate magic and are actively working against it. We also know that out of all the religions the seven are the only ones that have shown no power or magic. What do we know about the origin of the seven? Could the maesters have engineered the entire religion to replace the other gods who have power behind them with something powerless and more easily controllable? Where did this new high septon come from that got the religious army reinstated? This could be the maesters' long con.
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Aug 11, 2011 10:05
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Aurubin posted:Martin uses Chekov's gun with a lot of his characters/places. I got shouted down in the other thread for this. At least I'm not the only one that thinks it.
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Aug 11, 2011 10:08
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Blind Sally posted:As much as medieval politicking is cool, I think it'd be totally rad/hilarious for Euron or Victarion to come riding in on loving dragons and blow poo poo up. Maybe in the middle of a big stupid feast, or a small council meeting too. It'd be akin to some rear end in a top hat running into a room and knocking over a house of cards that someone had spent hours trying to build. If Euron got rock solid control of the dragons and started really, really, loving poo poo up, and Bran got enough control over the dark and icy magics up north, I reckon you could credibly turn Winter & the Others into 'good guys' with a bit of creativity.
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Aug 11, 2011 12:28
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ImJasonH posted:Tyrion thought he had it after wrestling with that one guy, and I recall Connington thinking why oh why did I have to pull that dwarf from the river? which to me indicates that you can get it from contact with an infected person or infected water. 
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Aug 11, 2011 13:22
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Ambiguatron posted:Maybe the Drowned God is real, and is going to rise up with a bunch of drowned zombies and the Others and everybody else will have to team up to fight them off. It'a s song of ice and fire after all. There's already been talk of actual Krakens showing up and bothering ships, so I don't think it would be too much of a shock for some monsters that are connected with that area to show up and wreak havoc.
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Aug 11, 2011 13:37
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Desumaytah posted:So who does everyone think is in the running for "main (human) bad guy" in all this? I think the whole point of the series is that there isn't one. Even the Others may not end up being as bad as you think they are.
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Aug 11, 2011 13:39
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Blind Sally posted:I was under the impression that it was similar chicken pox. Not as dangerous in children, but fatally dangerous in adults. I assumed that the disease had run its course in Shireen and she was just left with "pock marks." The Maesters say she is alright. Chicken Pox resurfaces later in life as Shingles. It's not that hard to come up with a pox-like disease that is fairly minor as a child and then later in life wham, even worse outbreak.
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Aug 11, 2011 14:11
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Sexpansion posted:There's already been talk of actual Krakens showing up and bothering ships, so I don't think it would be too much of a shock for some monsters that are connected with that area to show up and wreak havoc.
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Aug 11, 2011 14:25
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Quantify! posted:If Bran wakes up the trees and there's ents in this series I'm just gonna quit the books in disgust. He won't, but even if he did you know perfectly well you'd read them anyway. 
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Aug 11, 2011 14:28
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Eej posted:Chicken Pox resurfaces later in life as Shingles. It's not that hard to come up with a pox-like disease that is fairly minor as a child and then later in life wham, even worse outbreak. Yeah there's a whole big passage in Dance that explicitly says this about greyscale, seems like a lot of people missed it
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Aug 11, 2011 14:33
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NihilCredo posted:More importantly, when the boat guys think that Tyrion might be infected, they tell him not to touch any food that he isn't going to eat. So yeah, definitely contagious Yeah, Aegon triumphantly takes King's Landing and revels in his victory for about thirty seconds before greyscale starts to kill everyone in the city, and Connington is all "sorry guys, that was my bad". And Varys is all  Dany arrives, sees it's gone to poo poo, and flies back across the sea and just kind of hangs out or something, I don't know. It's actually the Song of Ice, Fire and Disease.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:09
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Martin has got everyone thinking The Others are the zombie equivalent of the series, but just wait until Grayscale spreads! I even has the whole 'should I chop of my arm to save myself, oh welp I'm dead' cliché every zombie thing has.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:18
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D-Pad posted:We know the maesters hate magic and are actively working against it. We also know that out of all the religions the seven are the only ones that have shown no power or magic. What do we know about the origin of the seven? I just want you to know that I loving love this theory and am totally on board, for some reason. I like the idea that the maesters are an order that just wants to end magic once and for all, and do so by running cities and stamping out non-Seven religions.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:38
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It seems like, until this book, plague and disease was the one big lovely thing about medieval life that GRRM hadn't touched, so I'm totally down with a Greyscale epidemic. We know Martin likes to employ rough historical cognates, and this makes sense both in the "carried from the east into the west" sense (like the Mongols allegedly brought the plague to Italy), and because one of the big after-effects of the plague was the death of feudalism. If Martin wanted to affect large social change on Westeros, this would be a good start. Also the stone men are  as gently caress.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:52
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drat you GRR drat you to loving hell page 913. I just finished the book. Great now I have to wait 5 years again to see this resolved. Ugh, its was better than I hoped but not as good as I had wanted. Also, why has no one mentioned Varys? He's a cold manipulative bastard, having Disruption in the north would help him more than anything with Aegons forces. Him getting Jon to help Stannis would created more problems and then Aegon would have a easier time. I say Varys sent the letter. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 15:54
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Hollis posted:drat you GRR drat you to loving hell page 913. I just finished the book. Great now I have to wait 5 years again to see this resolved. Ugh, its was better than I hoped but not as good as I had wanted. Assuming you mean Varys, how would even Varys have gotten news of what was going on at Winterfell? Nobody but Mance and the spearwives knew who Abel was, nobody would be able to get through that storm, and nobody at the Wall or in Stannis' camp could have known about the presence of Theon or Mance. Even a little bird. Plus if anything, Varys has been concerned with strengthening the Wall, not weakening it (trying to have Ned sent there), and Stannis was due to either be buried in the snow or smashed on the walls of Winterfell after Karstark's betrayal. And with all the indications that it's Mance that sent the letter, I can't see this panning out.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:00
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I could see that. The only time magic is effective in this book is if it's linked to blood and sacrifice. Why wouldn't you get rid of that? It's really barbaric and regressive. I think that the maesters want to have a world that's governed by technology and civilization. Plus, you don't want to be that guy killing people for magic. I like the fact that Aegon never died though. Not gonna lie, at first I thought that he was Illyrio's kid with his prostitute wife. She had some of the same physical characteristics as Targaryens. Part of me figured that the blue dye was a cover for the fact that he had blue eyes instead of violet. But it's much more interesting to think that instead of that plot thread, Aegon will be unwittingly spreading greyscale all over the one place untouched by war in Westeros. If these guys manage to overcome the greyscale, the ironborn, AND the Others, what the gently caress are they going to eat?
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Aug 11, 2011 16:00
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I kind of got the feeling that greyscale plague may be the answer to the others.. like good zombies and bad zombies.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:18
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Well I'm just glad that motherfucking Janos Slynt finally got shut the gently caress up.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:29
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Aurubin posted:ASoIaF has always brutally deconstructed the typical fantasy story. If we go with history, Valyria, Aegon's conquest, event Dany's dragons, dragons are loving terrifying. We only have 2-3 brief sentences from Marwyn on the matter, but if true, I'm with the Maesters. gently caress magic. If that makes me a villain in this story, I'll twirl my mustache and cackle manically. Speaking of Marwyn, where did he end up in all this? Throws on his traveling cloak at the end of AFFC and makes some badass pronouncements about magic and dragons and then nothing. I figured that he was going to show up after Dany flew off on Drogon, team up with Barristan, and start murdering the poo poo out of the king and his supporters using Unsullied, magic, and a healthy dose of fuckery.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:31
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Zeroisanumber posted:Speaking of Marwyn, where did he end up in all this? Throws on his traveling cloak at the end of AFFC and makes some badass pronouncements about magic and dragons and then nothing. I figured that he was going to show up after Dany flew off on Drogon, team up with Barristan, and start murdering the poo poo out of the king and his supporters using Unsullied, magic, and a healthy dose of fuckery. Which makes the book into a giant cocktease. You don't have at least 4 seperate parties heading to meet Dany and only have one of them make it (and the least interesting one!), then not do anything, then die. God dammit I want Victarion or the badass maester or Tyrion to meet Dany and be all "hey I'm badass, let's ally and gently caress poo poo up".
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Aug 11, 2011 16:39
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Quantify! posted:Presumably the part where everyone actually arrives in Meereen was cut out of the book by his retarded editor. Don't forget that yet another character on his way to Dany was introduced, then decided, "on second thought, let's not go to Mereen. 'Tis a silly place."
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Aug 11, 2011 16:50
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hampig posted:If Euron got rock solid control of the dragons and started really, really, loving poo poo up, and Bran got enough control over the dark and icy magics up north, I reckon you could credibly turn Winter & the Others into 'good guys' with a bit of creativity.
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Aug 11, 2011 16:58
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ImJasonH posted:Don't forget that yet another character on his way to Dany was introduced, then decided, "on second thought, let's not go to Mereen. 'Tis a silly place." It's just a model.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:15
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The knights who say neeps.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:28
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ImJasonH posted:Dany arrives, sees it's gone to poo poo, and flies back across the sea and just kind of hangs out or something, I don't know.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:30
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So what makes people think it was Mance who wrote the letter? How he knew to write about Reek and how to sound like Ramsay? And why would he do that in the first place?
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Aug 11, 2011 17:34
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xamphear posted:Oh! Oh! I hope she goes back to Mereen!!! Guys what if the book doesn't end with Dany coming to Westeros and loving poo poo up, but with everybody coming to Mereen and living happily ever after.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:37
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After finishing ADWD (which I really enjoyed, despite it feeling unfinished), I went back and started rereading the series. When I got to the part in ACOK where Jaqen changes his face, loving alarm bells started going off. (Italics are the emphasis in the book, bold is my emphasis.)A Clash of Kings posted:"I do. My time is done." Jaqen passed a hand down his face from forehead to chin, and where it went, he changed. His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls. Compare this to how Daario is described: A Wiki of Ice and Fire posted:He keeps his beard cut in three prongs, all dyed blue. His eyes are blue and his curly hair is dyed blue. His mustachios are painted gold and he has a large, curving nose. He is lithe, smooth skinned, has a golden tooth and dresses in loud colors and finery. I find the resemblance in the descriptions uncanny. Do we know of any other character with a gold tooth? Grrm kept emphasizing his gold tooth in ADWD, like every time Daario appeared on the page. And I can't find an exact passage, but I'm pretty sure that Daario has scars. So my theory is that Daario = Jaqen. I'm not quite sure how the timeline works, between Jaqen leaving Arya, Jaqen killing Pate (if that was even him), and Daario meeting up with Dany, but I just can't help but feeling that they are the same. This would either further the theory that the Faceless Men aren't just assassins and they have some sort of ulterior motive, OR that Jaqen is a rogue Faceless Man. He could have been sent/sent himself to stall Dany, or to attempt to kill her when the time is right. Earlier it was suggested that Mellisandre was bewitching Stannis with some sort of powder or spell; perhaps Daario could be doing the same to Dany, with some sort of infatuation drug? I dunno. I'm probably going to get laughed at. I'm excited to have a theory of my own though. 
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Aug 11, 2011 17:42
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If that means Ser Barristan gets to hang out with the Shavepate, I'm fine with that. Those two made Dany's chapters worth reading.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:43
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Aceofblue posted:After finishing ADWD (which I really enjoyed, despite it feeling unfinished), I went back and started rereading the series. When I got to the part in ACOK where Jaqen changes his face, loving alarm bells started going off. (Italics are the emphasis in the book, bold is my emphasis.) I'm pretty sure Daario is one of the six bodies they're flinging from the catapults into the city at the end of Dance.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:48
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Aceofblue posted:After finishing ADWD (which I really enjoyed, despite it feeling unfinished), I went back and started rereading the series. When I got to the part in ACOK where Jaqen changes his face, loving alarm bells started going off. (Italics are the emphasis in the book, bold is my emphasis.) That is interesting, but I feel like he'd have to be rogue or one HELL of a method actor, considering he does pretty much the exact opposite of lying low at all times. Also, apparently his plan involved him becoming the head of a group of mercenaries, signing on with a city and waiting for Dany to attack it, then defecting. I think it's more likely that curly hair and curved noses are something MArting has decided is a racial characteristic of the Lyseni, and two of them happen to have gold teeth.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:49
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Aceofblue posted:After finishing ADWD (which I really enjoyed, despite it feeling unfinished), I went back and started rereading the series. When I got to the part in ACOK where Jaqen changes his face, loving alarm bells started going off. (Italics are the emphasis in the book, bold is my emphasis.) Uh, you're stretching here. Even just using your highlighted passages you're ignoring all sorts of poo poo. Dario has no scar, a hook nose is not at all the same as curved nose. So the only similarities are curly hair, which isn't even the same color, and a gold tooth. Really uncanny.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:51
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Jaqen is seen at the beginning of AFFC, poisoning an acolyte named Pate with a coin. He appears at the very end of the book, in Pate's place AS Pate. If you think of AFFC and ADWD as one piece, it makes more sense. As far as the bodies in the catapults, I took a different take on it. I know that as a crude form of biological warfare, historical attackers would fling the corpses of plague victims over city walls. It was a way of infecting the defenders in their castles/city. And since they couldn't flee, they were trapped with the disease. Since all 6 of the trebuchets were going, I couldn't see whose bodies they were throwing over the walls considering they didn't have 6 hostages left, only 3. I think they're trying to give all the Mereneese people the bloody flux. I'm assuming they're making it rain... bodies.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:24
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Another out-there theory from earlier in the thread that I really liked was the idea that the Faceless Men are actually a covert arm of the Iron Bank. They're both based in Braavos. That iron coin Arya had is apparently some kind of symbol of the Faceless Men -- iron coin, Iron Bank. The Temple of Black and White goes way under the canals and could stretch out to who-knows-where-else in Braavos. Princes who oppose or inconvenience the Iron Bank "mysteriously vanish" and are replaced. The guy Arya is sent to kill insures trading voyages and is apparently fairly disreputable -- exactly the kind of guy who might piss off a bank. It's probably a bunch of crap, but I think it's a loving cool idea.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:25
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Crackbone posted:Uh, you're stretching here. Even just using your highlighted passages you're ignoring all sorts of poo poo. I don't deny that it's a stretch; a whole lot of things would have to fall into place or be worked out for it to happen. It just struck me as an interesting possibility. Seems more likely to me than Syrio being Jaqen. I could be wrong, but I thought that a hooked nose is curved? It's just a different descriptive word. When I think "hooked nose" I imagine a Roman-looking nose.  Also, as far as I'm aware of, nobody in GRRM's world has naturally blue hair. Daario dyes his hair and beard like everyone else with funky colored hair. Chainsawdomy posted:That is interesting, but I feel like he'd have to be rogue or one HELL of a method actor, considering he does pretty much the exact opposite of lying low at all times. Also, apparently his plan involved him becoming the head of a group of mercenaries, signing on with a city and waiting for Dany to attack it, then defecting. Jaqen didn't really seem to be too concerned with keeping a low profile. He managed to get himself captured, stuck in a dungeon reserved for the worst criminals in King's Landing, and shipped off towards the wall, for one. Also, he had pretty striking hair - half red and half white. That would certainly stand out in a crowd. He also aligned himself with the Brave Companions, who were well known as being a bunch of crazy motherfuckers. You could very well be right about the similarities in appearance being a racial trait, though. I don't recall much about the Lyseni other than that they have pale skin. oogyboogs posted:Jaqen is seen at the beginning of AFFC, poisoning an acolyte named Pate with a coin. He appears at the very end of the book, in Pate's place AS Pate. If you think of AFFC and ADWD as one piece, it makes more sense.  Aceofblue fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 18:27
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I'm still not convinced, but if the similar descriptions are intentional, that doesn't mean Daario is Jaquen. From what we know about face-changing, Daario could be any faceless man who Jaqen handed off the Daario-mask to at any point during ASOS.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:31
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How would a Faceless Man take control of a sellsword company anyway? Either Daario would have to be a real guy that he killed and replaced, it'd have to be a long, long con.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:33
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