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JohnnyDangerously posted:grrm couldn't wipe his rear end in 2 years. Considering how complex the books have gotten, his terrible method of 'note-keeping' that relies on fan knowledge of events/people, and his exhaustive schedule of cons/pizza tasting, there's no way this book is out before 2014 I missed you bad thread 
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Sep 22, 2011 17:26
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JohnnyDangerously posted:grrm couldn't wipe his rear end in 2 years. Considering how complex the books have gotten, his terrible method of 'note-keeping' that relies on fan knowledge of events/people, and his exhaustive schedule of cons/pizza tasting, there's no way this book is out before 2014 I'm pretty sure it's close to physically impossible for him to wipe his own rear end at this point, so you shouldn't hold that against him.
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Sep 22, 2011 17:57
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He has an asswiper slave. Oh. He based Tyrion's slave master on himself. Oh God.
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Sep 22, 2011 18:19
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Ambiguatron posted:He has an asswiper slave. There's at least three characters in Dance that he seemed to base on himself.
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Sep 22, 2011 18:24
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What gets me is Illyrio Mopatis. In his first few appearances, he was described as fat, and that was it. In Dance, all of a sudden he can't move under his own power and we get a description of the cheese growing on his sweaty moobs. Was Martin just padding the Tyrion chapters, or what?
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Sep 22, 2011 18:46
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Ambiguatron posted:What gets me is Illyrio Mopatis. In his first few appearances, he was described as fat, and that was it. In Dance, all of a sudden he can't move under his own power and we get a description of the cheese growing on his sweaty moobs. Was Martin just padding the Tyrion chapters, or what? As the years between books grow, so, too, do the characters.
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Sep 22, 2011 19:42
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Didn't someone (Arya?) describe him as quite light on his feet, like a water dancer?
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Sep 22, 2011 21:10
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Iggles posted:Didn't someone (Arya?) describe him as quite light on his feet, like a water dancer? Are you sure she didn't just notice he was wearing slippers? I actually can't remember, but I always remembered him being pretty fat.
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Sep 22, 2011 21:15
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Iggles posted:Didn't someone (Arya?) describe him as quite light on his feet, like a water dancer? He was wearing the Baron Harkonnen anti-gravity harness.
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Sep 22, 2011 21:21
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Dany and Arya both said he was "graceful despite his size" or something to that effect.
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Sep 22, 2011 22:37
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Since the Illyrio-Varys friendship was already established in Book 1, it's also reasonable that GRRM had already decided that Illyrio was a former bravo.
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Sep 22, 2011 23:01
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Amish Ninja posted:Wait, what?
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Sep 23, 2011 04:34
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GRRM posted:Much as I admire Tolkien, I once again always felt like Gandalf should have stayed dead. That was such an incredible sequence in Fellowship of the Ring when he faces the Balrog on the Khazad-dûm and he falls into the gulf, and his last words are, "Fly, you fools." In other words, Jon's dead for real and he's not coming back.
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Sep 23, 2011 05:39
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Junk Science posted:In other words, Jon's dead for real and he's not coming back. There is no way Jon will die/stay dead.
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Sep 23, 2011 05:46
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Finally finished this and I really liked it. My main issue were the Theon chapters actually(if I really wanted morbid skin-crawling crap I'd read horror fantasy). I liked most of the cliffhangers too.
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Sep 23, 2011 08:36
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Sil posted:Finally finished this and I really liked it. My main issue were the Theon chapters actually(if I really wanted morbid skin-crawling crap I'd read horror fantasy). I liked most of the cliffhangers too. I am always totally surprised when someone doesn't like Theon's chapters. They were some of the best in the entire series.
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Sep 23, 2011 08:57
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Azure_Horizon posted:I am always totally surprised when someone doesn't like Theon's chapters. They were some of the best in the entire series.
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Sep 23, 2011 10:24
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Toplowtech posted:And it is pretty funny considering the number of people who wanted Theon to suffer for his betrayals. I found this to be more effective at conveying the idea behind Gandalf's speech about Gollum than Tolkien himself ever was. The whole "can you give it to them?" thing. GRRM has a serious, serious talent but he needs stronger editing an actual plan. This whole book screams "I make this poo poo up as I go along and it's gotten too big to keep track of mentally". I bet the whole "burn my notes" thing is so people wont' be disappointed when it turns out he doesn't have any or they're disorganized, jotted down ideas for specific scenes or passages without any cohesion or future plan for the plot.
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Sep 23, 2011 14:45
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At the moment I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt that any criticisms of Feast/Dance can be explained by the fact that they were never originally planned. But he better get back on track with the next one when/if it ever comes out.
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Sep 23, 2011 14:52
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Junkenstein posted:At the moment I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt that any criticisms of Feast/Dance can be explained by the fact that they were never originally planned. But he better get back on track with the next one when/if it ever comes out. Yes the next book should really tell how much water this excuse holds.
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Sep 23, 2011 15:56
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Junkenstein posted:At the moment I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt that any criticisms of Feast/Dance can be explained by the fact that they were never originally planned. But he better get back on track with the next one when/if it ever comes out. That's pretty much exactly how I feel. The first three books were a perfect trilogy. Each one stood alone (well, mostly), but took the characters through an over-arching story that all came to a perfect climax at the end of Storm. Feast and Dance are two halves of the same book. They told a part of the story he wanted to gloss over, but I have no idea how he would have been able to do that; I can't imagine, if he hadn't written them, picking up after the five year gap and reading that Jon was dead, Stannis was stuck outside Winterfell, Kevan was dead, motherfucking Ageon and Jon Connington are snatching the Stormlands, and Tyrion had joined the Golden Company. Without using a ton of exposition or flashbacks there is no way anyone would have any idea what was going on. I guess this is pretty loving obvious, but if he hadn't taken so long to write them I don't think we'd care. But he's got the books behind him now. The first part of Winds might be the last part of Dance--getting everyone where they need to be--but after that I expect nothing but awesomeness.
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Sep 23, 2011 15:58
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Ross posted:Yes the next book should really tell how much water this excuse holds. He's had a decade to build his boat. Now it's time to see if that sucker floats. The longer he spends time setting the pieces up the better their eventual "bang" is going to have to be to justify the wind-up. While there's certainly a chance, if he hasn't significantly moved everything forward a' la aCoK or aSoS by the end of tWoW then the series as a whole risks becoming septic.
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Sep 23, 2011 20:03
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Started reading the series last spring, just literally an hour ago finished Dance with Dragons. These last two books were a bit of a disappointment. Dany somehow has been getting even more boring in the last few books and DWD found a way to make even Tyrion unlikable. Quite a feat. If Jon is dead I'm seriously running out of characters that I actually like to read about. I keep waiting for something to really affect the storyline in a major way, like the Others actually being a threat and all the King's Landing folks having to start accepting that things north of Winterfell actually matter, or Dany doing something with her dragons or at least loving god drat leaving Meereen. But the way things are written it's as if GRRM is intentionally avoiding an overarching storyline and instead wants to just write random loosely related stories that all take place in the same world. For example Damphair was made to be somewhat important at first, then discarded completely when Crow's Eye came along. Then Crow's Eye is forgotten in favor of Victarion - who was fun to read in DWD, at least. I guess it could be just the infuriatingly slow pace and bad editing, and all the characters will somehow matter and connect when (if) the series is finished. This post came out a little whiny so I'll just say that it's still a good series, if not the best fantasy I've read.
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Sep 23, 2011 22:19
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Toplowtech posted:And it is pretty funny considering the number of people who wanted Theon to suffer for his betrayals. I just find everything about the Bolton bastard to be over the top violence for no particular reason. I honestly did not need multiple chapters bringing up how theon was castrated and how horrible having bits of your skin flayed is. I mean the red wedding was horrible but it was one horrible event and then he moved on. With Theon it's an endless litany of gross crap that does very little for the plot. That being said I don't like extreme depictions of violence and torture. For instance I hated those parts of the Algebraist as well.
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Sep 23, 2011 22:19
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Junk Science posted:In other words, Jon's dead for real and he's not coming back. The difference is that Jon's death wasn't an "incredible sequence" It was a sudden twist to set up a cliffhanger.
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Sep 23, 2011 22:33
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The reason Gandalf had to die was because it forced the characters to come into their own. Nobody could get advice from Gandalf, they had to find their own way to defeat Sauron as best they could. Martin did the same thing ... but not with Jon. Maester Aemon had to die so that Jon wouldn't be dependent on his wisdom and would be able to grow into his own Lord Commander. When Gandalf comes back, it lessens the accomplishments of all the other characters. But Tolkien's story isn't really about character development, so it's not as important.
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Sep 24, 2011 00:42
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I don't think I will ever understand why we ended up needing two books, one of them nearly the longest in the series, to tell a part of the story that GRRM originally intended zero books for. I still think if you took the best parts of the last two books into one 1000 pager or whatever it'd be a really good book on the level of the other three. I guess all the new/extra POVs are nice for fleshing out the world though.
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Sep 24, 2011 01:28
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Ross posted:I don't think I will ever understand why we ended up needing two books, one of them nearly the longest in the series, to tell a part of the story that GRRM originally intended zero books for. I still think if you took the best parts of the last two books into one 1000 pager or whatever it'd be a really good book on the level of the other three. Martin hosed up at the very beginning. The Stark children were too young by far and we needed to see them grow up fast. His biggest problem right now is that they're all barely a couple years older even after five books. He hasn't progressed time as quickly as he clearly wanted to.
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Sep 24, 2011 02:20
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Supreme Allah posted:Martin hosed up at the very beginning. The Stark children were too young by far and we needed to see them grow up fast. His biggest problem right now is that they're all barely a couple years older even after five books. He hasn't progressed time as quickly as he clearly wanted to. Starting to think there is some truth in that, especially since Rickon is still going to be too young for anything unless he does something crazy. Arya's story is awkward since you can't really see her becoming a master assassin or anything in this time frame, Sansa is still too young for any clever shenanigans or scheming with/against Littlefinger, Bran is still a boy, etc. If he had gotten his 5 year gap OR started everyone off 3-4 years older, we could have had cunning 20 year old Sansa, mid teens/man Bran, 10+ year old Rickon capable of actually doing something, master assassin Arya, etc. cheese fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 02:30
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3Romeo posted:That's pretty much exactly how I feel.
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Sep 24, 2011 02:36
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If we got that, A Feast for Crows would have been the worst fantasy book ever written. Ugh. No thank you.
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Sep 24, 2011 02:37
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cheese posted:400 pages of Feast been a summary/flashback sequence This would be a horrible thing to do and you should feel ashamed for suggesting it.
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Sep 24, 2011 03:56
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reek, reek, it rhymes with nipple-tweak
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Sep 24, 2011 04:05
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Arya chapter spotted!  Aw gently caress. Tyryon now a full -fledged pig-rider.  Jaime chapter spotted! Book is getting a little better now, if only because of the short appearances by Arya and Jaime. DIE, DANY, DIIIIEEEEE!!!!!!!!! Sil posted:I just find everything about the Bolton bastard to be over the top violence for no particular reason. I honestly did not need multiple chapters bringing up how theon was castrated and how horrible having bits of your skin flayed is. I mean the red wedding was horrible but it was one horrible event and then he moved on. With Theon it's an endless litany of gross crap that does very little for the plot. You make a good point. What gets me all  is the chapter I am at now. Up till now he has been a quivering coward every time he has a chance to kill Ramsey, but suddenly that he believes Stannis is at Winterfell he is all "oh, how great it would be to die like a man with a sword in my hand!"
Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 04:13
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keyframe posted:There is no way Jon will die/stay dead. He could. GRRM is supposed to be subverting tropes* in this series, but he hasn't done much in a while. We assume that the Wall is an important area due to the scary zombies, so we need Jon's POV there. But it could be that the Wall is just a side show, because zombies are incapable of getting over a 700 foot high wall and only a trickle will manage to wade around it through the ocean. Perhaps Jon already served his purpose in the story by letting in a horde of wildings to complicate the political situation in the North. * (or something, killing the Neds and Robbs of the world and messing with your expectations anyway) Scrubber fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 04:22
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Jons totally going to warg out and do a quantum leap into Ghost or one of the dead guys in the ice cells. It is known.
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Sep 24, 2011 04:52
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John Hodgeman, of Daily Show fame, interviews GRRM: http://www.maximumfun.org/sound-young-america/george-r-r-martin-author-song-ice-and-fire-series-interview-sound-young-americaquote:JOHN HODGMAN: I believe you would have been about 16 at this time. In this particular letter, you had suggested that Avengers number nine was slightly better than Fantastic Four number 32. My question is: do you remember why? Same ol' GRRM Maarak fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 07:00
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Fog Tripper posted:You make a good point. What gets me all because suddenly he has faith that it might actually end instead of him just getting captured and tortured again. e: oh, and reading the interview, this popped out: Absolute Fucker posted:But it wasn't very long after that site started and I was reading it and enjoying it that I began to say, I probably really shouldn't be reading this stuff. For one thing, they're generating so many theories, that some of those theories are bound to be right. What do I do if I'm setting up a mystery that I'm going to solve in book six, and people have already guessed this mystery as of book two and they're discussing - - do I change it? Do I say, oh my god, they've already guessed it, they're four books ahead of me, I better change what I'm planning. I think it's a mistake to do that, because that's what you've planned. All the clues and the foreshadowing and the super structure that you build is in place for that reveal, you can't change it just because someone's got it. So I sort of distance myself from the sites. So seems like R+L=J and the like are still there, if he's not lying. whowhatwhere fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 07:02
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Starks are Atredies. Lannisters are Harkonnens. The Bene Gesserit are the faceless men. The Maester's are mentats. The dragons are sand-worms. Bran becoming a tree is like God Emperor. Arya therefore is going to train a bunch of northmen like faceless men and they'll train more men and more men and then the fedeyken of Arya will conquer the world for Bran. Right?
Rosscifer fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 08:51
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Rosscifer posted:Starks are Atredies. Lannisters are Harkonnens. The Bene Gesserit are the faceless men. The Maester's are mentats. The dragons are sand-worms. Bran becoming a tree is like God Emperor. Arya therefore is going to train a bunch of northmen like faceless men and they'll train more men and more men and then the fedeyken of Arya will conquer the world for Bran. Right? Now now, let's not mix a better series with an inferior series here. There's too much philosophy and awesome in Dune for this to work.
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Sep 24, 2011 09:10
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