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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Please knit me an awesome House Greyjoy kraken touque. I got neon pink. The Greyjoys are down with neon pink, right?
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Dec 10, 2011 00:02
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Now come mock this series and its author with us. He is fat, did you know? I understand pizza parlours in Albuquerque just bake and deliver pizzas on a schedule, he is not even required to place an order any longer. OK good ser, let me join this jesting tourney. Did you know that GRRM so fat, when he fell asleep Lisa Arryn went to live on top of him? GRRM so fat he tasted the Dornishman's wife and went back for seconds. GRRM so fat he wargs into lamprey pies. GRRM so fat, Walda Frey said drat. GRRM so fat, the people of Skagos used to eat animals and grain until he visited the island.
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Dec 10, 2011 00:33
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SammyWhereAreYou posted:I'm pretty sure most of us are exaggerating our hatred of the book and of GRRM for the sake of humor. Saying "Dance wasn't terrible but it wasn't that great either. I'm slightly disappointed but it's just a book and it's not really that important to me" isn't particularly fun or funny. It's a lot more fun to act like Dance is worse than AIDS. I've received more enjoyment following this thread than I have reading AFFC and ADWD. Not to say I didn't enjoy either of those books to some extent, because I did, but this thread is hilarious and I love seeing the books' faults blown up into absurd proportions. Plus, a lot of the fanboy defense in favour of GRRM, AFFC, and ADWD is insane. Like, extreme FF7 fanboy insane. I mean, the books were pretty decent and better than a lot of other fantasy out there, but come on, they're not the second coming of
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Dec 10, 2011 03:50
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To be honest, I just don't buy the argument that a creator owes their fans anything. You already paid for the entertainment. There's a right to be disappointed in what the author continues to put out, but I don't see a right to demand them anything when there has already been a transaction. That said, I don't think the books were the greatest things ever written, but I did decently enjoy all the books I've read (up to AFFC). I'm just baffled that the Bad Thread can put so much effort into hating one person for so many years.
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Dec 10, 2011 04:03
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We hate more than one person, because we also hate Ty, noted writer and GRRM's personal assistant. WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE PARRIS
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Dec 10, 2011 05:25
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 Hey guys! Should I buy this shirt? I want to be a virgin for the rest of my life.
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Dec 10, 2011 05:30
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Contra Calculus posted:
You say that like you have a chance of not being a spinster.
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Dec 10, 2011 05:31
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Yeah Man posted:To be honest, I just don't buy the argument that a creator owes their fans anything. You already paid for the entertainment. There's a right to be disappointed in what the author continues to put out, but I don't see a right to demand them anything when there has already been a transaction. If I had known that the series was going to stop being produced and turn to poo poo I wouldn't have invested any money in it in the first place. You're right if the book is a one-off, but in the market Gurm is in, it doesn't work that way.
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Dec 10, 2011 05:49
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Yeah Man posted:To be honest, I just don't buy the argument that a creator owes their fans anything. You already paid for the entertainment. There's a right to be disappointed in what the author continues to put out, but I don't see a right to demand them anything when there has already been a transaction. This argument is fine in a vacuum, but it doesn't hold water in the case of GRMM because he wrote an epic that did not have a full story resolution, leaving the end of each book extremely open-ended and with implied promise of more story to come provided the audience continued to patronize and promote him. This was explicitly verified when he announced more books in the series. As has been cited more than once in this thread there are plenty of writers who provide similar arrangements with their readers but do not gently caress with their readers to the degree of severity that GRRM has, even when on a severely delayed schedule with diminished output in terms of both quantity and quality. I really like how people who purport this argument have just enough analytical prowess to parrot a blog post Neil Gaiman farted out several years ago, but lack the basic faculty for independent thought to think circumstantially about how and why the bad thread evolved. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 05:51
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mind the walrus posted:This argument is fine in a vacuum, but it doesn't hold water in the case of GRMM because he wrote an epic that did not have a full story resolution, leaving the end of each book extremely open-ended and with implied promise of more story to come provided the audience continued to patronize and promote him. This was explicitly verified when he announced more books in the series. See, I don't buy this argument. For each book you read, you already paid once, either money, time, or both. Just because there is obviously going to be a series doesn't mean that the author has to cater to you, because he doesn't owe you that series. You already paid for entertainment. If you want more, you have to pony up more.
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Dec 10, 2011 07:30
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Yeah Man posted:See, I don't buy this argument. For each book you read, you already paid once, either money, time, or both. Just because there is obviously going to be a series doesn't mean that the author has to cater to you, because he doesn't owe you that series. You already paid for entertainment. If you want more, you have to pony up more. The other side of that is that there has to BE more to pony up for. I think there is a middle ground in what is "owed" and there seems to be a big disconnect in expectations. Now that HBO is in the game, however, the rules have changed. There is a lot more riding on GRRM than a bunch of fans tired of waiting, bitching on his blog.
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Dec 10, 2011 09:39
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Edit 4 double post
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Dec 10, 2011 09:41
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bigmcgaffney posted:Do You Not Sew?
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Dec 10, 2011 15:17
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On a related note, and life update: There is virtually zero snow here in snow country Utah. Yeah, there is snow on the 10k feet peaks, and manmade snow on the slopes. Ever since I had Blizzaks put on my and my wife's vehicles, and then purchased a top-end Toro snow thrower, we've had like NOTHING. WINTER IS NOT COMING. edit: it was cold as a wight attack a couple days ago, but no zombies ever arrived. edit: I suppose winter does not OWE me snow. 
Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 16:53
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neongrey posted:Think of the most loving exciting, and by exciting, I mean 'exciting to read', not plot-significant, event you can in ADWD. Go on, think about it. Now take that event and let's move it over to... oh, let's say Clash of Kings. I read this and started thinking "Stannis Baratheon's siege of Winterfell" until I realized that what we actually got was a couple chapters about how cold winter is and then then a cut to "Well that siege sure was crazy!"
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Dec 10, 2011 22:24
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Vertigus posted:I read this and started thinking "Stannis Baratheon's siege of Winterfell" until I realized that what we actually got was a couple chapters about how cold winter is and then then a cut to "Well that siege sure was crazy!" Theon's escape from Winterfell with Jeyne Poole was probably the biggest nailbiter in ADWD for me, that genuinely had my heart pounding.
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Dec 10, 2011 22:49
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In between "studying" for my finals, I was rereading bits and pieces of the series cause I'm a huge nerd. A throwaway line in ASoS by Stannis states something to the effect that he saw "A king whose pointed crown burned to ash, along with the king." He interprets this as his fate should he fail in his appointed task. Since this is still technically a thread for fans of the series, my interpretation of this line in light of the rest of the books and those discussions pertaining to them is that he himself will be the king that will be sacrificed. I won't speculate on whatever deus ex machina effect this might have, but it would work with Stannis' (albeit slow) character development from an entitled dick suffering from middle child syndrome, to a dick willing to sacrifice his personal ambition for the good of the realm. Plus from a literary standpoint it ties up one (of many) hanging plot threads in a neat package.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:18
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Brienne is Azor Ahai. get over it.
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Dec 11, 2011 01:40
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Vertigus posted:I read this and started thinking "Stannis Baratheon's siege of Winterfell" until I realized that what we actually got was a couple chapters about how cold winter is and then then a cut to "Well that siege sure was crazy!" If the entirety of ADWD isn't gutted like a fish for the tv show you can be sure we'll see some gloriously embellished use of trebuchets, etc in Antrim-doubling-as-Winterfell.
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Dec 11, 2011 01:57
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The non-spoiler thread is beginning to slowly morph... Personal favorite post, followed up by an appearance by A_H Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Dec 11, 2011 |
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Dec 11, 2011 03:26
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Azure Horizon is full of poo poo. The two "recent" books aren't about world building, they're about character development/growth but they are too bloated to do it effectively. Haha intertextually. Edit: What a tedious thing it must be to post and read that thread. Books have been out over a decade, but gotta spoiler Tyrion's nose! Maytag fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Dec 11, 2011 |
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Dec 11, 2011 04:03
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Yeah Man posted:See, I don't buy this argument. For each book you read, you already paid once, either money, time, or both. Just because there is obviously going to be a series doesn't mean that the author has to cater to you, because he doesn't owe you that series. Who said poo poo about catering? He professed to write a series and professed to update about progress on his blog. He is thus subject to analysis and criticism of said profession. That's part of the job. He can't take nasty things being said because he's not doing his job very well? Quit the drat job. quote:You already paid for entertainment. If you want more, you have to pony up more. This is just nonsense because I don't even think you know what you're arguing, just that it's "against" the "bad thread." Are you saying that if I want more of a series I have to buy more of his lovely tie-in merchandise when all I want is another book released on a reasonable schedule?
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Dec 11, 2011 04:08
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Maytag posted:Haha intertextually. I know it had been suggested to figure out the order of chapters between the two as if they were a single book, but I do not have the patience to actually flip-flop between two books like he apparently has done. Goddamn.
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Dec 11, 2011 05:16
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I know it had been suggested to figure out the order of chapters between the two as if they were a single book, but I do not have the patience to actually flip-flop between two books like he apparently has done. Goddamn. Don't be lazy, rip out all the pages, reorganize, and rebind them! Or maybe ebook shenanigans?
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Dec 11, 2011 05:41
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Oh man, I can't wait for those people who are saying "Eh, maybe I'll spoil it and skip to ADWD" to get there and be all WHAT THE gently caress IS THIS
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Dec 11, 2011 06:26
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I find it funny that I went out of my way to avoid being "spoiled" on this book only to read it and discover that not a goddamned thing happens.
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Dec 11, 2011 06:28
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Ross posted:I find it funny that I went out of my way to avoid being "spoiled" on this book only to read it and discover that not a goddamned thing happens. I'm pretty sure the last two books have been only about Jon Snow not knowing anything, breastplate nipples, and floppy eared bunny rabbits.
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Dec 11, 2011 06:46
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Ross posted:I find it funny that I went out of my way to avoid being "spoiled" on this book only to read it and discover that not a goddamned thing happens. This. Except... The only things that DO happen.. I got inadvertently spoiled on before reading anyway.
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Dec 11, 2011 09:07
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hailthefish posted:This. So... someone told you about all the nothingness that happens in the book?, the nerve of some people.
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Dec 11, 2011 15:21
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Maybe it's a commentary on the empty void that is our modern consumerist society. The decadence of the feasts is really the decadence of our lives. Replace all those foods with electronic devices, and you have the modern teenager. Truly, George RR Martin is a voice of clarity in the chaos of today. He brings us hope, hope that we can be better than we are if we just embrace the traditions of our forefathers. Raping. Diarrhea. Murdering. Incest. Dragons.
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Dec 11, 2011 15:24
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mind the walrus posted:Who said poo poo about catering? He professed to write a series and professed to update about progress on his blog. He is thus subject to analysis and criticism of said profession. That's part of the job. He can't take nasty things being said because he's not doing his job very well? Quit the drat job. I'm just saying there's no reason to say nasty things in the first place. Yes, he takes goddamn forever to write one book. Yes, it doesn't seem like he really cares about his fans. But you know what, he doesn't have to. When you read the previous books, you already paid the cost for entertainment. The balance is neutral now. Neither side owes the other anything. quote:This is just nonsense because I don't even think you know what you're arguing, just that it's "against" the "bad thread." Are you saying that if I want more of a series I have to buy more of his lovely tie-in merchandise when all I want is another book released on a reasonable schedule? No, I'm saying that you don't get to determine an author's schedule, just like the author doesn't get to have your money if you don't want to give it to him anymore.
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Dec 11, 2011 19:33
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zocio posted:So... someone told you about all the nothingness that happens in the book?, the nerve of some people. Nah, just about the beheading toward the beginning and Bran finding the children of the forest
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Dec 11, 2011 20:54
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You can't rationalize with the bad thread, we say nasty things about Gurmpa because its funny. I mean, a lot of things that are made fun of on the internet have never done anything to me or affected my life, but I still think its funny.
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Dec 11, 2011 21:07
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Yeah Man posted:I'm just saying there's no reason to say nasty things in the first place. There's no reason to do like, anything... man..... we live in a universe that is meaning-ascribed per each individual user. It's all like, social constructs or something   .quote:Yes, he takes goddamn forever to write one book. Yes, it doesn't seem like he really cares about his fans. But you know what, he doesn't have to. You're right, this statement in a vacuum is true. No one has to do anything that isn't imperative to their immediate animal survival. Why do you seem to think I'm arguing against that? quote:When you read the previous books, you already paid the cost for entertainment. The balance is neutral now. Neither side owes the other anything. Exactly. We don't owe him goodwill the same way he doesn't owe us a timely schedule. That said he's teased more work, and hasn't delivered in the eyes of many of his fans. As free people we are allowed to call him a fuckass tease. I really don't know what part of this is hard to understand, it's not like you need to like this reality. quote:No, I'm saying that you don't get to determine an author's schedule, just like the author doesn't get to have your money if you don't want to give it to him anymore. None of this refutes dick about a person's right to complain or demand things of someone who professes a service in the public sphere. It's not about determining a schedule as much as it is qualitative assessment. An oil company doesn't owe me poo poo when I'm not paying for their gasoline, but if they spill a ton of poo poo into the Gulf of Mexico I have a right to say they're a lovely loving oil company. My disagreement with the whole "the author doesn't owe you poo poo" argument isn't that it's 100% untrue, it's that it misses the point of criticism entirely. It confuses qualitative assessment with demand, which looks at best willfully obtuse and at worst haughtily insecure.
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Dec 11, 2011 21:58
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GRRM owes me a book written since the turn of the century that doesn't suck.
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Dec 12, 2011 00:24
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bigmcgaffney posted:You can't rationalize with the bad thread, we say nasty things about Gurmpa because its funny. I mean, a lot of things that are made fun of on the internet have never done anything to me or affected my life, but I still think its funny. I really hope internet people never stop taking stuff like "GRRM is a huge fucker" far, far too seriously. I mean, when I say horrible poo poo on the internet I'm usually just kind of hanging out calmly and afterwards I might go out and do some social stuff and be a completely cool, normal individual who doesn't think about it much.
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Dec 12, 2011 01:51
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Yeah Man posted:I'm just saying there's no reason to say nasty things in the first place. Yes, he takes goddamn forever to write one book. Yes, it doesn't seem like he really cares about his fans. But you know what, he doesn't have to. When you read the previous books, you already paid the cost for entertainment. The balance is neutral now. Neither side owes the other anything. The Bad Thread is really really funny, and this argument isn't.
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Dec 12, 2011 04:13
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Yeah Man posted:When you read the previous books, you already paid the cost for entertainment. The balance is neutral now. Neither side owes the other anything. That's just disingenuous. If the Franklin Mint starts putting out a chess set at $30 a piece per month, and then decides to crap out after 10 pieces (not due to lack of sales, materials or distribution, just due to neglect and apathy), that's breaking a STRONGLY implied contract with their clients. You can argue that they never guaranteed they'd actually sell you all the pieces, but it's a loving chess set, for crying out loud. It was advertised as such. You rightfully expect that as long as you keep up your end, you'll be able to play a game of chess with it at some point.
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Dec 12, 2011 05:48
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Why cookie Rocket posted:That's just disingenuous. If the Franklin Mint starts putting out a chess set at $30 a piece per month, and then decides to crap out after 10 pieces (not due to lack of sales, materials or distribution, just due to neglect and apathy), that's breaking a STRONGLY implied contract with their clients. You can argue that they never guaranteed they'd actually sell you all the pieces, but it's a loving chess set, for crying out loud. It was advertised as such. You rightfully expect that as long as you keep up your end, you'll be able to play a game of chess with it at some point. Basically, this. When a novel has "BOOK ONE" or "VOLUME ONE" plastered on the cover, the reader buys it understanding that it is not the full/finished product, and has the reasonable expectation that the author will deliver the rest of the series. Meanwhile, the expansion of the larger story into multiple smaller books gives the author the flexibility and space to tell the story that they really want to. If the author decides to stop writing halfway through in favor of other activities, then yes, they're welshing on their end of the bargain and deserve to be called out on it. And again, note that this is only part of the reason people are upset with Martin. It's this fact combined with his attitude, posting about NFL games, overall apathy, and bland mediocrity of the final products (AFFC and ADWD) that fuels the internet hate machine. Between ASoS and ADWD, we waited ten years to catch up on some of these characters, and ended with... What? Bran beginning to become a magical exposition/flashback machine, Jon's hamhandedly "gotcha" non-death, Tyrion signing a contract, and Dany making GBS threads in the bushes? Seriously? EDIT: Blind Sally posted:It's not a novel, but man am I pissed about this movie. I have been waiting for the teased Part II to come out for-loving-ever. The most blatant case of fraudulent advertising since "The Never-Ending Story". Beef Hardcheese fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Dec 12, 2011 |
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Dec 12, 2011 06:33
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Simon Draskovic posted:Basically, this. When a novel has "BOOK ONE" or "VOLUME ONE" plastered on the cover, the reader buys it understanding that it is not the full/finished product, and has the reasonable expectation that the author will deliver the rest of the series. It's not a novel, but man am I pissed about this movie. I have been waiting for the teased Part II to come out for-loving-ever.
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Dec 12, 2011 06:49
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