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KoB posted:It just occurred to me that Dirk and Roxy are 410 years in the future. Like, pretty much right when the universe is set to die. They might not have meteors coming, but they should probably get into the medium pretty quick.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:22
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JT Jag posted:This is an entirely different variation of this universe. The last version of this universe only went tits up because Jack Noir destroyed it. Who's to say this one has to die? Jack Noir destroyed it externally. So it's still going to get hosed, presumably.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:25
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Utterly out of left field theory: the Alpha and Beta kids, plus the trolls, are going to end up re-Scratching the Alpha universe by use of the Beat Mesa Jade presumably brought with her with the rest of Dave's planet. Scratching that twice is going to gently caress poo poo up really weird, which is how they end up beating English (somehow).
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Mar 23, 2012 18:31
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Cabbit posted:Utterly out of left field theory: the Alpha and Beta kids, plus the trolls, are going to end up re-Scratching the Alpha universe by use of the Beat Mesa Jade presumably brought with her with the rest of Dave's planet. Scratching that twice is going to gently caress poo poo up really weird, which is how they end up beating English (somehow). Nope. The Beat Mesa got left behind in their old session. It left LOHAC and ascended up to Skaia.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:34
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But the Beat Mesa flew up into Skaia like a loving piece of garbage, so it didn't get taken with Jade. e: Gah, too slow.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:34
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King of Solomon posted:Jack Noir destroyed it externally. So it's still going to get hosed, presumably. Yeah, my understanding is that the same frog contains both versions of the universe concurrently, meaning that they'll experience simultaneous red miles action.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:48
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Also, the Scratch seems to work by altering the destination coordinates of certain portals in order to redirect important meteors, specifically the ones carrying the players - that's not possible now since there's no reckoning and no babies, even if they manage to acquire another device like the Beat Mesa through some manner of shenanigans. There's still room for a left field theory involving another Scratch: let's say that such shenanigans do happen; but due to a lack of human player meteors they have to improvise and send a couple troll wigglers (don't ask me exactly where they'd get those, but there have been hints that something vaguely like this is why Kanaya is still around) instead - carrying Rose's notes from the meteor - which is how uu and UU happen. I don't think there's any reason to expect something like this right now, but hey.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:51
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It's not like the new session is going to be without Jack Noir. He's chasing the meteor after all, he'll be around to destroy the universe if need be.
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Mar 23, 2012 18:52
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:(don't ask me exactly where they'd get those, but there have been hints that something vaguely like this is why Kanaya is still around)
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Mar 23, 2012 19:27
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I'm pretty sure that one of the early Act 6 flashes shows that the new Earth takes place in a remnant of the Genesis Frog Jack Noir destroyed. I don't think Dirk and Roxy will be seeing their universe get destroyed because they're living in one of the few pieces that managed to survive Jack in the first place.
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Mar 23, 2012 19:27
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closeted republican posted:I'm pretty sure that one of the early Act 6 flashes shows that the new Earth takes place in a remnant of the Genesis Frog Jack Noir destroyed. I don't think Dirk and Roxy will be seeing their universe get destroyed because they're living in one of the few pieces that managed to survive Jack in the first place. I was under the impression that it was simply not quite destroyed yet, but I guess this makes more sense.
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Mar 23, 2012 19:31
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closeted republican posted:I'm pretty sure that one of the early Act 6 flashes shows that the new Earth takes place in a remnant of the Genesis Frog Jack Noir destroyed. I don't think Dirk and Roxy will be seeing their universe get destroyed because they're living in one of the few pieces that managed to survive Jack in the first place. And why would it? Remember that in the Troll Session, which contained Bilious Slick, they are completely outside of that universe's temporal envelope. There's no need for a linear or causal relationship where it's alive at both points of time (from the B2 Kid's perspective and PM/Jack's perspective). It is perfectly possible for Jane/Jake/Dirk/Roxy's universe to be already destroyed, due to the non-linearity of the whole mess. We won't know for sure until the it is stated for sure, though.
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Mar 23, 2012 19:34
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Slime posted:Nope. The Beat Mesa got left behind in their old session. It left LOHAC and ascended up to Skaia. They took Skaia with them, didn't they? Isn't Skaia the Battlefield?
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Mar 23, 2012 19:48
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Cabbit posted:They took Skaia with them, didn't they? Isn't Skaia the Battlefield? They took battlefield, which is instead Skaia.
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Mar 23, 2012 19:50
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The battlefield is what is initially in the middle of Skaia. Jade took only the battlefield itself, and then only the planet part - all the wibbly extra bits around the outside, and the big blue-white cloudy whatever that is Skaia itself, were left behind.
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Mar 23, 2012 19:51
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Nate RFB posted:There's been so such confirmation. In this panel we see the remnants of Bilious Slick floating around, but there's nothing to say for sure that that's where B2 Earth is. This makes sense for a variety of reasons. We already know that the B1 universe had cancer, which indirectly affected B1's session. No matter what happened with the scratch, nothing could change the fact that Kanaya and Karkat botched the frog breeding process. Further support is that the B2 session is also screwed, and can't reproduce a new universe on its own. It was never meant to, which again could be the result of a cancerous universe. I think that Dirk and Roxy will see the same type of countdown as Jane did, but it will apply to the red miles entering Earth's atmosphere. We already saw that the countdown doesn't have to apply to a meteor; the S.S. Batterwitch proved that. Plus, when I look at Rose's line, Rose posted:In the new instance of our universe, Earth is just fine. it seems like she could either be referring to Earth's hostile takeover, or the eventual destruction of the universe. Just my thoughts on it. I'm curious about the player meteors, however. In both examples we see of kids playing the game, there's a set of kids and a set of ancestors. I wonder if that was the fatal flaw in the first place? Maybe in a true session, all 8/24/however many ecto-players are sent to the right place in time to all play together. I can't think of any significance the ancestor role has played other than a cross between preparing the players indirectly or simply being the also-rans. Cavatica fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 23, 2012 |
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Mar 23, 2012 20:43
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Hussie has such a foot fetish. I suspected it before, but this is it.
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Mar 23, 2012 21:16
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KoB posted:It just occurred to me that Dirk and Roxy are 410 years in the future. Like, pretty much right when the universe is set to die. They might not have meteors coming, but they should probably get into the medium pretty quick. 413 years actually, since they're 3 years older than the kids were originally
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Mar 23, 2012 23:17
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:Also, the Scratch seems to work by altering the destination coordinates of certain portals in order to redirect important meteors, specifically the ones carrying the players - that's not possible now since there's no reckoning and no babies, even if they manage to acquire another device like the Beat Mesa through some manner of shenanigans. Huh, I didn't realise this when it first came up in the comic but, if this is the case. What the gently caress happened when the A1 trolls scratched their session.
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Mar 23, 2012 23:53
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Oh, hmm, that's a good point. I guess we might find out at some point if we keep seeing more of the A1 ghosts. (Especially since apparently dead dream Jade spent a lot of time hanging out with them for some reason.)
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Mar 24, 2012 00:06
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YF-23 posted:What the gently caress happened when the A1 trolls scratched their session. Doc Scratch and Gl'bgolyb happened. I'm not quite sure how.
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Mar 24, 2012 00:43
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Walliard posted:Doc Scratch and Gl'bgolyb happened. I'm not quite sure how.
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Mar 24, 2012 00:50
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The really weird thing about A1 is that the trolls' ectobiology happened in A2. The A1 trolls basically had to scratch their session to ensure their own existence. Which is really messed up.
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Mar 24, 2012 00:57
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Doc Scratch didn't just go back to 200 years or whatever before the Ancestors showed up though, he probably was on Alternia (or the moon, but with his powers that distinction is kinda irrelevant) for about as long as Bec was on earth, so millions of years into the past, loving things up since he is the Alternian version of Satan. Plus, the whole way Lord English works means he has effectively been around since the beginning, that's plenty of time to change the Trollplanet significantly. Kinda sucks for all those alien planets where before they had peaceful trade with the Trolls who were just a part of the Galactic community, and now they are subservient/extinct thanks to the ever expanding Alternian Empire (plus the Mega-Lusus psychically killing the entire galaxy or whatever) hell, just the presence of Gcat instead of Bec has probably altered Earth's history a bit.
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Mar 24, 2012 00:57
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It's probably the same reason B2 has a cat first guardian instead of Bec. Whatever that is. Edit: That is, the reason why Doc Scratch wasn't around in A1.
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Mar 24, 2012 00:57
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Walliard posted:Doc Scratch and Gl'bgolyb happened. I'm not quite sure how. No, no, I meant, well, we know that the Scratch operates by creating a new Alpha timeline by switching around the meteors carrying the paradox clones to their planet, right? But the A1 trolls didn't even make paradox clones for the Scratch to switch around the meteors for!
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Mar 24, 2012 01:09
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YF-23 posted:No, no, I meant, well, we know that the Scratch operates by creating a new Alpha timeline by switching around the meteors carrying the paradox clones to their planet, right? But the A1 trolls didn't even make paradox clones for the Scratch to switch around the meteors for! From an outside, absolute point of view of time, all these events kind of happen "at the same time" so to speak. Similar to how the B2 kids's existence is dependant on the B1 kids causing the scratch, the A1 trolls existence is dependant on themselves causing the scratch and them being ectocloned in the A2 universe. From Paradox Space's perspective which universe happened first from an internal, chronological, point of view is irrelevant, as The Medium exists outside the timeframe of the initial universe and meteors are flying back and forth through time, creating stable time loops all over the place. Try to think of it less as A1 universe > A1 session > A2 universe > A2 session and more like A1 universe / A2 universe A1 session A2 session
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Mar 24, 2012 01:21
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YF-23 posted:No, no, I meant, well, we know that the Scratch operates by creating a new Alpha timeline by switching around the meteors carrying the paradox clones to their planet, right? But the A1 trolls didn't even make paradox clones for the Scratch to switch around the meteors for! Well, the Scratch still switched around the destinations of the meteors, it's just that the meteors in question were from the future, made by Karkat. I mean, this is far from the first time we've seen a universe impacted by the actions of another universe that does not yet exist.
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Mar 24, 2012 01:24
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The sticking point here is that the Scratch is something that at least appears to be triggered from within the session, in so far as "triggered" has any meaning. (Which may, of course, not be very far.) We saw that the B Scratch involved the Beat Mesa in the B1 session causing B1 Skaia to retarget some of its defense portals, making the baby meteors arrive in a different order and reshuffling the whole mess of self-causation as none of the other B1 meteors arrived in B2, which will therefore come by its first guardian and frog temple in some other manner; the A Scratch could not work entirely analogously because the A1 session did not have the baby meteors, the A2 one did. Obviously this is an incomplete picture because there's all this extra cross-influence with Betty Crocker messing everything up and B1 and B2 exchanging various things and the A2 trolls shouting at everyone in B1 and now players from what may or may not be some C universe weighing in, so there's lots of room for things to work differently.
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Mar 24, 2012 01:31
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poo poo, hang on, up until now I assumed that every meteor that has appeared/will appear in the B2 universe is one redirected from the B1 universe's Reckoning. Where the gently caress did GCat come from? 
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Mar 24, 2012 01:47
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YggiDee posted:poo poo, hang on, up until now I assumed that every meteor that has appeared/will appear in the B2 universe is one redirected from the B1 universe's Reckoning. Where the gently caress did GCat come from? Only the meteors carrying the players were switched. The ones carrying other things, like First Guardians, Frog Temples, and probably exiles, don't seem to get bifurcated. GCat and the alpha Frog temple/s probably will be made in the Alpha kid's session.
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Mar 24, 2012 01:57
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Oh, until now I missed that the White Queen also has the King's Scepter. I thought that with the Kings both exploded that there couldn't be a Reckoning at all.
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Mar 24, 2012 02:05
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So here's a weird thing to ponder: The Troll Queen is concurrently on both B2-Earth and B2-Derse. So what's the order here? A) Has a simple way to switch back and forth that we've not seen in the comic yet B) Arrives on Earth, chills out as the Batterwitch, rebuilting her forces, takes over, then seemingly gives all this up to be the Queen of Derse, presumably arriving earlier in the session the way Dirk and Roxy will somehow also do. C) Arrives on Derse first, gets her butt kicked sometimes in the future, retreats to Earth, where she conquers it in a vain attempt at revernge. (B) seems the most likely, but I'm curious about why she'd give up Earth for Derse. Does B2-Earth get destroyed after all, perhaps when Dirk and Roxy get into the game?
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Mar 24, 2012 02:15
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YggiDee posted:Oh, until now I missed that the White Queen also has the King's Scepter. I thought that with the Kings both exploded that there couldn't be a Reckoning at all. Obviously SOMETHING needs to happen in terms of meteors going through the gates and hitting earth. While the Scratch changed the order the players arrived it, GCat and the frog temple still need to arrive somehow. John or Jade could probably handle tossing a few meteors about though. The defense gates aren't specifically activated by the Reckoning, so just tossing meteors at Skaia should work just fine. Also, I think there will be another ectobiology session. A1 was doomed because their session was bugged, and they didn't create themselves in it. I don't think the Scratch would introduce this bug to B2. The meteors weren't bifurcated, they just had the time they arrive at changed. Changing the order changes who the players are, and thus who ends up being the ectobiolobabysitter. Edit: Update! Mystery sea troll has a name.
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Mar 24, 2012 02:21
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Bobulus posted:(B) seems the most likely, but I'm curious about why she'd give up Earth for Derse. Does B2-Earth get destroyed after all, perhaps when Dirk and Roxy get into the game? Red Miles. If they affect B2 and the timing is the same as for B1, Dirk and Roxy are in basically exactly the right spot to just get away into the session as the universe ends. (I more or less expect this to be the case now, if only because they turned out to be 413 years in the future rather than 111 or 1111 or something.) Incidentally, you're missing a variable: how does her presence in and influence on B1 fit into this? We don't even know that she necessarily got to B1 before B2; of course, she may also have been going back and forth on that axis, concentrating her efforts on B2 (explaining her stronger presence there and her disappearance from Nanna's life) but able to pop back over (explaining the ICP video given to Dave). Pretty much her whole adventure is open to conjecture at this point.
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Mar 24, 2012 02:22
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Welp, either Betty Crocker has a name or we have a whole new cast to be introduced to. Too bad it isn't an anagram of DEBBIE Edit: Kinda telling John recalls Vriska now! Bell_ fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 02:23
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Clamscray.
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Mar 24, 2012 02:24
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:Clamscray. Yes, exactly. 
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Mar 24, 2012 02:25
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Oh man, she only just figured out she's dead? That's... kind of weird if the A1 trolls' introduction (assuming that's who they even are, although I can't really come up with who else it could plausibly be) to bubbletopia is basically running into a bunch of humans.
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Mar 24, 2012 02:26
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Hm. The new troll was named without an introduction page. The probability of act 6.5 being subdivided into a reprise of Hivebent has decreased.
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Mar 24, 2012 02:27
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