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If he's traveled back in time, it's possible he has the bodies of the dreamselves that have yet to be killed. I hope not, because how the gently caress would that work anyway given the afterlife?
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Apr 16, 2012 18:29
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Eh. Time is weird for deads. I mean, Jade's dead dreamself got prototyped only a few hours incipisphere-time after death, but clearly the subjective duration (in so far as that concept applies - the closest we got to an explanation of that was Aranea refusing to give one) of her afterlife experience had more in common with the years spent taxidermied and catching up to that moment after getting to Earth with Grandpa and then back into the session. I don't think this is what'll happen, but having sprites prototyped with dead dreamselves from the future would be weird only in that then there'd be three versions of the same person running around, and it's not like we haven't had any of that.
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Apr 16, 2012 18:36
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gently caress you Hussie, I want Gamzee to be my guide just for the hilarity factor.
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Apr 16, 2012 18:37
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Gamzee's arrival sparked a small theory in me. Perhaps when John & Co. arrive to fill in the extra 4 planets for the new session, perhaps Karkat, Terezi, Kanaya, and Gamzee will be substituting for Jane & Co.'s sprites, showing them the ropes, helping them out, etc.
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Apr 16, 2012 19:39
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VRISVROSPRITE: uHHHHHHHH, w8 A MINUTE, VRISVROSPRITE: i DONT THINK THIS IS WHERE iM SUPPOSED TO 8E, VRISVROSPRITE: i... VRISVROSPRITE: wA8T, VRISVROSPRITE: wH8T DID YOU DO? VRISVROSPRITE: wH8T DID Y8U DOOOOOOOO???????? Requesting fanartist's rendition of Vrisvrosprite, thanks in advance.
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Apr 16, 2012 20:01
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I think this corpsesprite thing has legs. Gamzee made away with the corpses of the troll's Life, Void, Heart, and Hope players -- maybe he's gonna prototype the corresponding B2 player's sprites with the A2 player's corpse; e.g.: Jane gets Feferisprite, Roxy gets Equiussprite, and so on.
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Apr 16, 2012 20:07
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Glory of Arioch posted:I think this corpsesprite thing has legs. Gamzee made away with the corpses of the troll's Life, Void, Heart, and Hope players -- maybe he's gonna prototype the corresponding B2 player's sprites with the A2 player's corpse; e.g.: Jane gets Feferisprite, Roxy gets Equiussprite, and so on. Come on, Gamzee may be a psychopath, but forcing Jake to deal with Eridansprite is just cruel.
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Apr 16, 2012 20:11
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SexyBrianPuppet posted:Come on, Gamzee may be a psychopath, but forcing Jake to deal with Eridansprite is just cruel. Especially if he ends up like Jadesprite was...  vvvvv Walliard posted:What if he's going to make a DoubleCalsprite? Would it's attack be Smuppetgeddon? Ayana fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 20:33
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That would also mean a Nepetasprite for someone other than Roxy, which just doesn't seem right. What if he's going to make a DoubleCalsprite? Walliard fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 20:39
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Sorely disappointed there was not a  option for choosing Gamzee as a guide.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:58
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Well, let's examine the clues here. He's definitely alive and a Bard of Rage with scars on his face, so we know it's Gamzee and not his A1 ancestor. We're meant to infer that he's gone god-tier, which would mean he found a Rage quest bed somewhere, and as far as we know that "somewhere" can't be B2. It is unknown whether god-tiers can get scars, so we can't use the status of his face to try to guess at when he ascended. We haven't seen him talk yet, so we can't use his speech mannerisms to determine whether he's stoned or not. The last time we heard of him, which was at least two years ago from his perspective, he was hoarding bodies for unknown purposes. During that time, Kanaya never killed him, but that could mean anything - either she never found him, or they talked it out, or she tried and failed (if he was god-tier at that time, that might have qualified as a just death; if he was not, it might have been that action that triggered his ascension). His intentions with those bodies have not yet been revealed, but it is noteworthy that among them are the trolls whose aspects match those of the B2 kids (Feferi, Eridan, Equius, and Nepeta). He also has access to some of the corpses whose aspects match the B1 kids (Tavros and Vriska, arguably Aradiabot, Kanaya if she dies). He's using time music boxes, which he probably took from the remains of Aradiabot. Assuming he found some way to use them correctly - and I wouldn't put it past him - this means he could appear at any point along the B2 Incipisphere's timeline, regardless of the local time of the meteor's arrival. It raises the question of why, if the meteor arrives at an inconvenient time, Dave isn't the one doing the time bullshit to coordinate things. The fact that it's Gamzee suggests that he's ripping off Lord English's "already here" gimmick. Which is not menacing at all, especially in light of his association with Doc Scratch and Lil Cal. An even more important question is: what events in the history of the Incipisphere might he have meddled with?
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Apr 16, 2012 22:01
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WAR FOOT posted:Sorely disappointed there was not a "Behold Codpiece? y/n"
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Apr 16, 2012 22:03
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How did Gamzee get there? Fuckin' miracles, man.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:09
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Bongo Bill posted:It raises the question of why, if the meteor arrives at an inconvenient time, Dave isn't the one doing the time bullshit to coordinate things. How do we know he isn't?
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Apr 16, 2012 22:16
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Prison Warden posted:How do we know he isn't? He'd be (all together now) already here. It would just be prudent to check in with all four of them as early as time travel allows, rather than allow Gamzee to run amok. So there must be some reason it's happened this way despite the presence of a more experienced, benevolent, and prepared Time hero. We just don't know what it is yet.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:20
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Bongo Bill posted:He'd be (all together now) already here. It would just be prudent to check in with all four of them as early as time travel allows, rather than allow Gamzee to run amok. So there must be some reason it's happened this way despite the presence of a more experienced, benevolent, and prepared Time hero. We just don't know what it is yet. Gamzee didn't turn up immediately as soon as Jane entered did he? For all we know the next page could be him warping in 
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Apr 16, 2012 22:31
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Bongo Bill posted:He'd be (all together now) already here. It would just be prudent to check in with all four of them as early as time travel allows, rather than allow Gamzee to run amok. So there must be some reason it's happened this way despite the presence of a more experienced, benevolent, and prepared Time hero. We just don't know what it is yet. What is prudent isn't always what happens, and a random thought occurring to someone that they should go back and do something in the past isn't connected with actually doing that thing. Tavros should have done something to make Jade's life not-miserable-and-scary, but the fact that Jade grows up without that intervention means he can't do anything after the suggestion. Events are still based around who is proactive and forward-thinking, which is why Aradia was simultaneously capable of and trapped into orchestrating much of the events of the trolls' session, with Terezi and Vriska following suit for the kids' session. This is Gamzee with a hidden goal.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:33
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, let's examine the clues here. He's definitely alive and a Bard of Rage with scars on his face, so we know it's Gamzee and not his A1 ancestor. We're meant to infer that he's gone god-tier, which would mean he found a Rage quest bed somewhere, and as far as we know that "somewhere" can't be B2. It is unknown whether god-tiers can get scars, so we can't use the status of his face to try to guess at when he ascended. We haven't seen him talk yet, so we can't use his speech mannerisms to determine whether he's stoned or not. If he'd reached god tier after getting the scars then they would have healed in the transformation (like with Vriska and her robot arm), so that at least dates his ascension to some time prior to Trollpocalypse 2011 and thus probably before the final battle with the Black King. That would at least explain why his attack on the Black King did so much damage. It would also mean that Kanaya can beat up two god tier players, and anything that makes Kanaya more badass is fine with me. I would love it if someone asked Gamzee how he ascended and he just answers code:
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Apr 16, 2012 22:34
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Bongo Bill posted:He'd be (all together now) already here. It would just be prudent to check in with all four of them as early as time travel allows, rather than allow Gamzee to run amok. So there must be some reason it's happened this way despite the presence of a more experienced, benevolent, and prepared Time hero. We just don't know what it is yet. The B1 kids had a really, really long day. And they're experiencing three really long years in the intermissions. That's no reason they can't start appearing over the course of Dirk, Roxy and Jake entering the Medium this Act, even if we don't see them until later. The intermissions can still cover the next two years as a source of exposition (and more importantly, hilarity) while allowing the battlefield and four additional planets to arrive. (even though I said that, there's a good chance that's NOT what's going to happen) Oh yeah, and for every morsel Aranea gives Terezi, I have to wonder how much information trading Aradia is conducting as a guide!
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Apr 16, 2012 22:36
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Not to mention, the kids + trolls only have access to dream bubbles and the B2 session, and the B2 session has literally just started. We may be neck-deep in A2/B1 shenanigans all through this session.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:41
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I think the only reason the characters "heal" after reaching the god tiers is that their body is literally replaced with their dreamselves. Of course Vriska wouldn't have an eye patch and a missing arm as a god tier, her dreamself was never missing either.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:42
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MrBims posted:What is prudent isn't always what happens, and a random thought occurring to someone that they should go back and do something in the past isn't connected with actually doing that thing. Tavros should have done something to make Jade's life not-miserable-and-scary, but the fact that Jade grows up without that intervention means he can't do anything after the suggestion. "He just didn't think of it" would be a reason, though it would be a bit of an odd one in light of all the planning Rose is getting up to.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:43
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Nate RFB posted:I think the only reason the characters "heal" after reaching the god tiers is that their body is literally replaced with their dreamselves. Of course Vriska wouldn't have an eye patch and a missing arm as a god tier, her dreamself was never missing either. On the other hand, John's insides are presumably working fine even though he was stabbed through them at least once since ascending. It's hard to be sure about what's going on with that since where the wound or scar would be is not in a visible place like the face, though - but then for all we know he could still have a hole clear through his torso and just simply not be obliged to care about it. Can't be entirely sure of this either way, I think.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:47
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Gamzee wears facepaint. He could be perfectly healed.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:56
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Bongo Bill posted:"He just didn't think of it" would be a reason, though it would be a bit of an odd one in light of all the planning Rose is getting up to. Rose's thing is 'seeing the path to victory' - fairly vague, and it should be, since it would be boring if that meant there would be no nasty surprises for the incoming kids and trolls. I already don't like how she's been kind of transcendental over everyone else without the ambiguity of loyalty characterizing Aradia, or Terezi's humanity. It is pretty hard to make omniscient protagonists endearing.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:00
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:On the other hand, John's insides are presumably working fine even though he was stabbed through them at least once since ascending. It's hard to be sure about what's going on with that since where the wound or scar would be is not in a visible place like the face, though - but then for all we know he could still have a hole clear through his torso and just simply not be obliged to care about it. Can't be entirely sure of this either way, I think. John went through a whole big skaia clock light show being resurrected though, which would probably fix all his wounds - Gamzee didn't after Nepeta's (his) scratches, so I don't think there'd be a chance for him to get healed up
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Apr 16, 2012 23:02
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Horrorstuck aside, I really don't think there's much reason to view Gamzee as an antagonist. Outside of his rampage it really seems like he was only trying to be a good friend in a screwed-up-stoner sort of way. For all we know, him protyping the dead trolls could be his attempt at making amends for his murder rampage.
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Apr 17, 2012 00:18
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A big flaming stink posted:Horrorstuck aside, I really don't think there's much reason to view Gamzee as an antagonist. Outside of his rampage it really seems like he was only trying to be a good friend in a screwed-up-stoner sort of way. For all we know, him protyping the dead trolls could be his attempt at making amends for his murder rampage. All we know about his motivations is that they're not bound by conventional notions of morality, which is good enough reason to consider him at least potentially antagonistic.
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Apr 17, 2012 01:00
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After reading this thread I'm buying the idea more and more that he went God-tier before the Black King showdown and just didn't tell anyone/nobody noticed. We never saw his dream self (at least, we don't know for certain that it was on-planet to get blown away when Bec Noir hit Prospit) so it's viable, Nepeta's scars wouldn't heal because he'd have to actually die, whereas if he'd gone God-tier after that fact they would've been healed. Even that aside there just don't seem to be many other opportunities for him to have done so once the meteor was enroute. As for what he's doing here now, I want to believe the wacky troll revival plan because it sounds fun, but I suspect it isn't what'll happen (getting shown Nepeta with beta-God-Tier-Karkat and Equius with the robo-Aradias felt like a "these characters are happily retired in the afterlife" move, narratively). Also, while I wouldn't be surprised if Dave starts to appear and run around to help set up the arrival of the players in a sort of Lord English "he's already here" style way (good point, Bongo Bill), I kind of doubt the others would intentionally send Gamzee on such a sensitive mission. More than likely he just decided to do this on his own initiative.
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Apr 17, 2012 01:31
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A big flaming stink posted:Horrorstuck aside, I really don't think there's much reason to view Gamzee as an antagonist. Outside of his rampage it really seems like he was only trying to be a good friend in a screwed-up-stoner sort of way. For all we know, him protyping the dead trolls could be his attempt at making amends for his murder rampage. Maybe it was the plan the WHOLE TIME.
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Apr 17, 2012 02:28
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Dolash posted:After reading this thread I'm buying the idea more and more that he went God-tier before the Black King showdown and just didn't tell anyone/nobody noticed. We never saw his dream self (at least, we don't know for certain that it was on-planet to get blown away when Bec Noir hit Prospit) so it's viable, Nepeta's scars wouldn't heal because he'd have to actually die, whereas if he'd gone God-tier after that fact they would've been healed. Even that aside there just don't seem to be many other opportunities for him to have done so once the meteor was enroute. I like the theory that Gamzee went god tier during the troll Sgrub session too. It makes his super strength during the Black King battle and horrorstuck make sense. Hussie had said "He's a murderous clown, of course he's super strong" which never sat well with me. I don't know how much this makes sense or not, but it could be that there were no stable time loops that involved Dave going back to the start of the session, but there was one for Gamzee. The availability of timeloops for a Time player to exploit is kind of strange and seems like it takes agency away from them more than other players.
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Apr 17, 2012 02:34
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If we accept Karkat's analysis of Tavros and Vriska from ages ago as being correct, then wouldn't a sprite prototyped with both of them result in a somewhat well-balanced individual? That is to say, if Vriska's "BRAIN IS BROKEN, KIND OF LIKE TAVROS'S BUT ON THE OPPOSITE HEMISPHERE." A spider-bull seems kind of awful, though.
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Apr 17, 2012 02:36
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Bongo Bill posted:All we know about his motivations is that they're not bound by conventional notions of morality, which is good enough reason to consider him at least potentially antagonistic. I get the feeling that Gamzee is capable of just about anything so long as it doesn't upset Karkat too much. He could just as easily be bored after a three year voyage and feeling helpful as he could be feeling restless and murderous.
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Apr 17, 2012 02:41
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Who cares how helpful he wants to be, if you see a walleyed horned clown with huge loving scars across his face and a purple codpiece who says he wants to be your special friend then the only reasonable course of action is to call literally all the police
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Apr 17, 2012 02:46
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creationist believer posted:I like the theory that Gamzee went god tier during the troll Sgrub session too. It makes his super strength during the Black King battle and horrorstuck make sense. Hussie had said "He's a murderous clown, of course he's super strong" which never sat well with me. The time loop thing is tricky. It depends a lot on the personality of the player, since their psychology dictates the sort of scenarios they will accept, and therefore limits the scenarios they can be presented with. It also depends on what tight causality limiters are in play - the Green Sun's creation was a huge, immovable point which warped how the alpha timeline played out around itself, but now that it's gone there are fewer events that 'have' to happen (that we know of) and thus a lower need for beta timelines to ensure them. On the psychology front, our two big examples so far are Aradia and Dave. Aradia is/was an extreme fatalist, which gave her both the most and least power. Most of her time traveling wasn't in the form of stable loops because she almost seemed to embrace the idea of predestined doom and thus took any opportunity to create a beta timeline (so, naturally, she was presented with those opportunities). By contrast Dave was very concerned about avoiding beta timelines mostly by making some contact with himself or coordinating through Rose or Terezi, so he could keep track of what he had to do. This kept him mostly stable, but it's more of an illusion than he thought since again it just limited the nature of the time travel options he could or would be presented with - when presented with a choice he wouldn't accept, like killing his sleeping self, he still produced a beta timeline. When Rose needled him about keeping his death from Jade, she was making the point that he's only presented with the stable time loops that he himself would willingly partake in, he can't shift the blame for his actions (or insensitivity to Jade) on to fate. Gamzee could be involved in time loops because he's the sort of character who doesn't really think about beta timelines or worry about causality too much. He just jumps into it, and serendipity ensures the rest. He probably doesn't even understand the danger and wouldn't if you tried to explain it. He also doesn't seem like the type to go back in time and try and do things to change how the present played out (the main source of beta timelines), or if he did he'd only achieve results that were noticed after his point of departure. His lack of awareness and perspective protects him from most of the real causal dangers of time travel. Dolash fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 02:50
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This is for Goonstuck, but I guess it's Homestuck related, so have this music.  My compy's been out of commission for the past month, so I'm getting back into the swing of things. 
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Apr 17, 2012 03:17
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Ok this has nothing to do with anything or anything but for some reason I'm totally hearing the rear end in a top hat uu (undyingUmbrage) as sounding like Javik from Mass Effect 3 (minor ME3 spoilers watch out). Just the condescending hardass type thing, and the similarities between Javik wanting Commander Shepard to space some poo poo and uu wanting Dave to chop up his juju (Cal), I dunno. Songs p. dope too there NLTM edit- oh my god the newest update oh my god it's glorious Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 06:49
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Oh my god such perfect use of elevatorstuck. Also 
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Apr 17, 2012 07:36
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Well, there goes any notion that Gamzee had possibly gotten slightly sane after Karkat pap-shooshed him.
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Apr 17, 2012 07:38
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Um, hmm. Potions. I see.
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