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el_brio posted:As Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". I'm not saying that you are completely off base... I just think your degree of faith in the GRRM is misguided. Give me some examples of where this lame cliche started, then.
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May 25, 2012 22:11
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Ned: Always be honorable and protect those sworn to you. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. And now he's Mogo*. HOW'D YOU LIKE THAT, BRAN? *Except Mogo is awesome and Bran is... not. At least he has Hodor.
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May 25, 2012 22:14
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Seldom Posts posted:And Animal Farm is about Farm Animals. Book talk.  Also, the bear and the maiden fair better be Irish drinking song as gently caress.
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May 25, 2012 22:25
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Mogo's a secret Dothraaki. Just look at his name!
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May 25, 2012 22:26
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Turns out ASoIaF takes place on Mogo's surface. The long summers and winters are just him loving with people.
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May 25, 2012 22:34
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Ok. I give up. The Stark children have some sort of mystical relationship with their direwolves where: 1. If their wolf dies, so do they (unless they are Sansa) 2. If they die, then their wolf dies (unless you are John) 3. If they stray from "Stark values" they, and their wolves die (unless you are John, Arya, Bran or Rikon)
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May 25, 2012 22:54
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el_brio posted:Ok. I give up. The Stark children have some sort of mystical relationship with their direwolves where: This is one of the few remaining un-ruined things about the books that made me love them in the first place. When I first started thinking the kids were magic people who "just happened" to find magical wolf friends and the wolves would protect them and be by their side constantly and to be honest I almost stopped reading after Jon found an albino runt that's an OUTCAST JUST LIKE HIM. And then it turned out that there's no rules, they're just pet wolves. Sometimes they get killed, sometimes they're not around, sometimes they come back, sometimes they don't... I love that they aren't really special.
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May 26, 2012 02:04
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I feel the same way. Speaking of the wolves, did Ned make Sansa bury Lady after he slit her throat? He did say that the kids would bury their wolves themselves if they died, after all.
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May 26, 2012 02:53
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Urdnot Fire posted:Speaking of the wolves, did Ned make Sansa bury Lady after he slit her throat? That'd be kind of a dick move, don't you think?
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May 26, 2012 03:35
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Waffle Ho posted:That'd be kind of a dick move, don't you think?
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May 26, 2012 03:38
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Pretty sure he sent her body to the North for whatever reason. Probably because Cersei would use her as a rug in the Throne Room.
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May 26, 2012 03:43
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Lady would make a pretty nice hat.
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May 26, 2012 03:45
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Imagine Walder and Cersei discussing their wolf wear. Cersei is Cruella and Walder is Mr. Burns.
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May 26, 2012 03:47
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Urdnot Fire posted:Imagine Walder and Cersei discussing their wolf wear. Cersei is Cruella and Walder is Mr. Burns. 
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May 26, 2012 03:51
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FateoMcSkippy posted:Lady would make a pretty nice hat. So would Sansa. ~*~parallels~*~
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May 26, 2012 03:52
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The Unnamed One posted:Pretty sure he sent her body to the North for whatever reason. Probably because Cersei would use her as a rug in the Throne Room. Yeah, he sent her body back to Winterfell to be buried there, and Sansa stayed in King's Landing with him, so no, Sansa did not have to bury her wolf.
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May 26, 2012 03:55
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Somethimg I can't remember, what happened to the stormlands once Stannis went norh? Were they annexed? Or did Stannis leave a big enough detachment to defend the south?
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May 26, 2012 07:55
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I don't think it was covered extensively but I think Stannis took everything he had left to the north save for a token force at Dragonstone that gave Loras a bath.
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May 26, 2012 08:17
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Welp Bad Thread, my friend amd I were at a party and people started show talk and y this point we were pretty far gone so we make sure everyone knows the GRRM is an absolute fucker. They take this in stride so my buddy spoils the Red Wedding, cueing an escape that takes us about a mile away to taco bell where we find a cab to take us home. The worst of it is we had to leave a bottle of whiskey behind! Hopefully I can reclaim it in the morning and get bread and salt the next time I visit that house...
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May 26, 2012 09:00
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Get your friend in here, since they are clearly more of a Wildard than ou.
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May 26, 2012 09:10
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Stannis didn't have the forces to defend the Stormlands against the Lannisters and Tyrells, so he didn't try.
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May 26, 2012 09:56
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crazypeltast52 posted:Welp Bad Thread, my friend amd I were at a party and people started show talk and y this point we were pretty far gone so we make sure everyone knows the GRRM is an absolute fucker. They take this in stride so my buddy spoils the Red Wedding, cueing an escape that takes us about a mile away to taco bell where we find a cab to take us home. The worst of it is we had to leave a bottle of whiskey behind! Hopefully I can reclaim it in the morning and get bread and salt the next time I visit that house... Nooooo. Don't go back it seems like a bad idea. And the wolves are decently executed plot points, gently caress ya'll. I like that fact they aren't magic protector/escape hatches. At best they're a really awesome bullshit detector, as worst you're Sansa. Because Sansa is the loving worst.
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May 26, 2012 12:26
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Sansa is the best Stark now that Robb is dead, though judgement on Rickon is pending.
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May 26, 2012 12:27
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Sophia posted:Sansa is the best Stark now that Robb is dead, though judgement on Rickon is pending. In the end, Sansa seems to have been the smartest Stark. She was the only one with enough sense to keep her mouth shut and go with the flow of events. She is also in the best position to survive the coming winter (despite Littlefinger creeping on her). Even the whole Littlefinger thing isn't that bad. So he wants her to be his sock-puppet? She would have been married off to some other creep by now anyway that probably would have done a lot worse than smooch her whilst making snow-castles. She could do a lot worse than spending her remaining days as Littlefinger's wife tucked ssafely away in the vale with servants waiting on her. Ohhh, to whoever said that she would make a nice hat, that was pretty tasteless. I think hockey-mask would be the preferred form of Sansa head-gear. el_brio fucked around with this message at 12:41 on May 26, 2012 |
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May 26, 2012 12:36
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It doesn't have to be head-gear. She could be made into mittens too or a cloak for that matter. Bolton style.
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May 26, 2012 12:48
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el_brio posted:In the end, Sansa seems to have been the smartest Stark. She was the only one with enough sense to keep her mouth shut and go with the flow of events. She is also in the best position to survive the coming winter (despite Littlefinger creeping on her). Even the whole Littlefinger thing isn't that bad. So he wants her to be his sock-puppet? She would have been married off to some other creep by now anyway that probably would have done a lot worse than smooch her whilst making snow-castles. She could do a lot worse than spending her remaining days as Littlefinger's wife tucked ssafely away in the vale with servants waiting on her. Sansa is a selfish moron. You would've made an excellent official in the government of Vichy France.
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May 26, 2012 13:35
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Why cookie Rocket posted:Sansa is a selfish moron. You would've made an excellent official in the government of Vichy France.
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May 26, 2012 13:39
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Rurik posted:How is being selfish moron worse than being selfless moron? Sansa is the first, Ned and Robb the latter. The Starks in general are morons, but a moron who knows how to stay alive is smarter than the one who doesn't. The problem is that she's in a position to do an amazing amount of good while still staying alive, but does nothing. She's also somehow still unbelievably (literally, I don't believe it, it's bad character work) more concerned with who she's going to marry than the world falling apart around her.
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May 26, 2012 14:02
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Why cookie Rocket posted:The problem is that she's in a position to do an amazing amount of good while still staying alive, but does nothing. She's also somehow still unbelievably (literally, I don't believe it, it's bad character work) more concerned with who she's going to marry than the world falling apart around her. How exactly is she supposed to know how to do to do good in the world? She doesn't have the privilege that we do of bouncing around from POV to POV to see what's going on in the rest of the world, much less to know what is true about what she hears about the rest of the world from various shady sources. And she has literally no power, nor any desire for it. Sure, if we were able to move the pieces around like a god, she would be in a great position, but she's just her. Plus, when your life is controlled by your marriage and husband like a noble girl's, who you're going to marry is pretty important. Sansa is the best Stark because she understands the hard side of life better than any of the rest of them and has survived. She's not special, or magical, and she doesn't have anything or anyone to protect her, but she's still alive. Sophia fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 26, 2012 |
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May 26, 2012 14:06
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Sophia posted:How exactly is she supposed to know how to do to do good in the world? She doesn't have the privilege that we do of bouncing around from POV to POV to see what's going on in the rest of the world, much less to know what is true about what she hears about the rest of the world from various shady sources. And she has literally no power, nor any desire for it. Sure, if we were able to move the pieces around like a god, she would be in a great position, but she's just her. I know it's the bad thread and everyone is internet-tough but seriously, "collaboration is dandy" is the consensus this morning? She knows some of the players, and feeding information to the right people could be pretty useful to the people trying to take down the regime that killed her family. The point is she's not even trying. A rat "knows how to stay alive", that doesn't make it a compelling character in a novel.
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May 26, 2012 14:13
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Why cookie Rocket posted:The problem is that she's in a position to do an amazing amount of good while still staying alive, but does nothing. She's also somehow still unbelievably (literally, I don't believe it, it's bad character work) more concerned with who she's going to marry than the world falling apart around her. I don't agree with this being the reason Sansa sucks. She kinda has her hands tied with the whole kidnapped by the rapey-guy thing. Sophia posted:Sansa is the best Stark because she understands the hard side of life better than any of the rest of them and has survived. She's not special, or magical, and she doesn't have anything or anyone to protect her, but she's still alive. Sansa is awful because she got her father killed. And the butcher boy. And that singer. She's a self-preserving sycophant, which is fine and an awesome survival mechanism, but c'mon one Stark is becoming a tree-elf psychic, another one is somewhere off in the woods loving around with an old-rear end wilding lady, and one is a face-changing assassin. One got stabbed. Sansa sucks and her chapters are boring. 
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May 26, 2012 14:21
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MonsterWalk posted:I don't agree with this being the reason Sansa sucks. She kinda has her hands tied with the whole kidnapped by the rapey-guy thing. I don't really think Sansa is really to blame for getting Ned killed. All she was trying to do was secure her a pardon, and then Joffrey betrayed her because he was a psychopathic little poo poo. It wasn't her fault at all. This is the thing that she has attempted to change, and the one bit of good that she has attempted to do, and it got her father killed. At that point I can't really blame her for not doing a lot else. She did sort of gently caress over the butcher boy, though. I also hated Sansa in the first book, but she did grow on me. That might also be because she becomes a POV to watch Littlefinger be Littlefinger, and Littlefinger is awesome, if also somewhat rapey.
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May 26, 2012 14:32
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I shouldn't say her chapters are boring, she's a neat observer and is witness to some cool events. I just get bored whenever she not watching someone get poisoned.
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May 26, 2012 14:37
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Scuzzywuffit posted:Littlefinger is awesome, if also somewhat rapey. But has Littlefinger actually RAPED someone yet? Yeah, he kissed Sansa in the courtyard, but i don't think that counts
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May 26, 2012 15:03
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Smashurbanipal posted:But has Littlefinger actually RAPED someone yet? Yeah, he kissed Sansa in the courtyard, but i don't think that counts Sansa will fall in love with him and live happily ever after. The rest of Westeros starves during the upcoming winter. Everyone wins.
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May 26, 2012 15:16
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Smashurbanipal posted:But has Littlefinger actually RAPED someone yet? Yeah, he kissed Sansa in the courtyard, but i don't think that counts He starts amping up the daddy kink thing at the end of AFFC because Sansa is getting accustomed to him and he can now get away with it. Forcible rape isn't his style, especially since he thinks he can get her to love him back ("hey baby, I'll totally get Winterfell back for you").
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May 26, 2012 16:00
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whowhatwhere posted:Get your friend in here, since they are clearly more of a Wildard than ou. howdy Why cookie Rocket posted:The problem is that she's in a position to do an amazing amount of good while still staying alive, but does nothing. She's also somehow still unbelievably (literally, I don't believe it, it's bad character work) more concerned with who she's going to marry than the world falling apart around her. counterpoint: she is 12 nuncle jimbo fucked around with this message at 16:40 on May 26, 2012 |
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May 26, 2012 16:35
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"Come, give daddy a kiss." *Sansa kisses his cheek* "How ... dutiful. You should be more excited to see your dad again, though." *pulls her into his lap, kisses her on the lips* "Try to do better next time."
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May 26, 2012 16:44
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Sansa sucks because she's a teenage girl. Teenage girls are notoriously annoying, and a large portion of what comes out of their mouths is stupid and thoughtless. With Sansa it's even worse, because half of the time we have to be inside her head, so even when she isn't saying something stupid, we're hearing her thoughts, so we know the stupid poo poo she she's thinking, too. She has the potential to get older and stop being stupid and annoying, like many/most teenage girls. However, given how terrible GRRM is at making his female characters not be stupid or horrendous bitches, I don't hold out much hope for her. (Arya being one of the few exceptions.)
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May 26, 2012 16:44
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Sophia posted:Sansa is the best Stark because she understands the hard side of life better than any of the rest of them and has survived. She's not special, or magical, and she doesn't have anything or anyone to protect her, but she's still alive. She has literally always had someone protecting her, for various reasons. She has never had any agency. She is a boring character.
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May 26, 2012 17:14
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