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Azure_Horizon posted:And I definitely don't agree, at least in regards to ASOIAF. You only agree because you share the same whatever opinion about the series. No, I really do think Sophia tends to have good opinions and is cool. We don't agree on everything at all.
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Aug 15, 2012 06:25
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I read the word "hyperbolic" and all I want to do is go train with Goku so we can defeat Cell together. what we should be discussing is whether Goku could beat Drogon in a fight (he could, handily)
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Aug 15, 2012 06:27
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Azure_Horizon posted:Speaking of actually lovely series, anyone else got a Game of Bones chapter done yet I've done mine. Come on, people, let's get us some of that internet money!
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Aug 15, 2012 06:35
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I have two. And I'm working on the cover, I swear, but Painter makes my computer heat up real bad, so I can't work on it for too long at any one time. If you burn your dick off we can call you Theon and write you into the book as Gayjoy or something eDIT: "It doesn't make a bit of difference, Tyrion. You can't bring your father back. The balls are inert. You are on your own. Shenlongdick-sama can't help you now." bigmcgaffney fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 08:10
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:what we should be discussing is whether Goku could beat Drogon in a fight (he could, handily) Can Goku breathe fire? Checkmate. 
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Aug 15, 2012 08:29
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:what we should be discussing is whether Goku could beat Drogon in a fight (he could, handily) I think the more important question is whether Drogon could beat Superman. Dragon fire is magical after all. Probably.
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Aug 15, 2012 08:33
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:what we should be discussing is whether Goku could beat Drogon in a fight (he could, handily) Drogon would simply gently caress Goku to death with tentacle-dicks.
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Aug 15, 2012 09:31
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In It For The Tank posted:I think the more important question is whether Drogon could beat Superman. Dragon fire is magical after all. Probably. dragon fire is stupid as gently caress is what it is, say thankya
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Aug 15, 2012 09:34
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whowhatwhere posted:I forget, what did you think of ASOS, Sophia? By ASOS you can start to see some of Martin's ideas and ambitions getting away from him, but it remains a fairly good book despite of that. It has a clear purpose, and most of the storylines feed into it (except for, as always, Dany, who is off in a completely different, and usually less interesting, book). I believe part of Martin's overall goal in all the books is to consistently maintain a situation where no one has the true right or comfort to claim the Iron Throne, so that the struggle to do so is endless. This serves him well, as Martin is at his best when he's writing political machinations, and at his worst when writing the supernatural elements (that he apparently felt needed to be there in a fantasy novel) or the "day to day lives" aspect of people doing not much. His goal in this book is to sweep the chessboard of the kings he set up in a dramatically satisfying way, and he does that well - Robb, Joffrey, and Balon get murdered, as does Tywin who was a lurker, while Tyrion and Stannis run as far away from the Iron Throne action as possible. Even the main manipulators, Varys and Littlefinger, are removed from the area, leaving a giant power vacuum in a mostly organic way. Crazy Cersei is left with a little boy and Margaery, and that's really about it. Thus the book has a purpose which ties many of the stories together and also has narrative surprises that work very well and can maintain a reader's interest. He is successful in almost all of this except for Stannis, who has too much of those supernatural elements and has motivations that don't really make a ton of sense because of it. The major problem that gets in the way of it being a truly good book (and consistently gets in his way after GoT) is that because his strength is the dance of power, his characters are mostly chess pieces that he needs to set up and knock down. But, because he is either too in love with his characters or knows that his fans are too in love with his characters, he will write about all of them in great detail even when their story is just "moving to the next square they need to be in and marking time until they're ready to come back into the plot". He is not a writer that can easily disguise that fact. And he gets worse at disguising it over time. In ASOS that happens with Arya, with Dany, and with Bran and company - nothing that they do is really that important but he spends a ton of words on them anyway. It makes the book drag in places that it shouldn't but he can't seem to leave them alone. ASOS is also better on the first read, when you don't know the plot cul de sac he is writing himself into by sweeping the board of all of the kings. In looking back at it, knowing what we know about AFFC and ADWD (where the problem of "writing people wandering around because they're not ready to be in the plot" becomes a major issue instead of a minor detraction), it becomes worse in retrospect. I don't really think ASOS is deconstruction for deconstruction's sake; it has a point that will enable him to keep writing things he's good at, but it has the effect of leaving him with no pieces with which to do that in the short term. I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that the biggest mistake Martin made is not to do the time jump he had planned. Had he done that, a lot of this could have been forgiven or disguised. Sophia fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 12:11
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http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/08/game-of-thrones-author-knocks-gop-132035.html?hp=r11 George's opinion is all the more convincing due to his suspenders laced with dragonfire
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Aug 15, 2012 13:01
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Flaming Braces of the Whale +1.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:08
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Fly Molo posted:Can Goku breathe fire? Checkmate. Piccolo can shoot energy beams out of his mouth, so I'm sure Goku could figure out how to do it, too. This is a guy who saw Master Roshi do Kamehameha one time and did it himself right after, flipping a car. He was 11.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:30
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Sophia posted:But, because he is either too in love with his characters or knows that his fans are too in love with his characters, he will write about all of them in great detail even when their story is just "moving to the next square they need to be in and marking time until they're ready to come back into the plot". He is not a writer that can easily disguise that fact. And he gets worse at disguising it over time.  A perfect summation of my thoughts on why Feast and Dance were bad. GRRM can't do "slow-paced". For a slower pace to work, he'd have needed some actually engaging character development or romance or something, which -- as you say -- are not his strengths.I still think that he should have done the time skip and published some novellas/short stories to bridge the arcs that needed bridging. He could have even done a "Meanwhile, at the Wall" at the beginning of the post-time skip book to explain it, and maybe a clip show prologue to show the missing links to people who didn't read the bridging material. My only hope is that Winds, if it ever comes out, will have the same plot pacing that we were spoiled by in Storm.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:42
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It's not that he can't do slow paced. One, he let the story spiral wildly out of control and he can't do any pace since it's so ridiculously hard to keep track of what's going on that he has to cheat by having someone else help him keep up with it. Two, he suddenly turned into a huge pussy. The Wall should have come down by now, and Dance reads like he was putting off Drogon flapping down and burning the poo poo out of everything as long as possible. Two chapters, one to show how lovely Dany is at handling Meerenese politics and bam, Drogon lands right in the goddamn throne ziggurat looking for his dragon mommy and burns all these motherfuckers, problem solved. poo poo didn't need to drag on for a whole book. Establishing how tedious some activity/place/occupation/sex is for a character should be done minimally, or not at all. Also, it's obvious that GRRM really wants to write about knights and ladies and adult knights have sex with maids of three and ten and is completely out of his depth in trying to write some decadent Eastern civilization and goes to ridiculous extremes. All of the descriptions of Essos in Dance read like the passages in American Psycho where Bateman talks about his clothes; usually your eyes just glaze over, but if you force yourself to pay attention you can't avoid seeing how ridiculous it is.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:54
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I have 500 words left in my chapter; Bren and Miri are currently having a jacuzzi party by the hardwood
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Aug 15, 2012 14:39
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Ambiguatron posted:It's not that he can't do slow paced. One, he let the story spiral wildly out of control and he can't do any pace since it's so ridiculously hard to keep track of what's going on that he has to cheat by having someone else help him keep up with it. Hm, I'm not sure I agree with this fully. I think he has a pretty firm grip on the part of the story he wants to tell (Westeros proper). It's the fact that he's let the sideshows of his world bog him down in things he's really not good at writing. The sideshows being Dany, The Others, Bran, R'hllor and The Faceless Men. And he's so busy trying to manage those plots that he can't get back to what he's good at. In that sense he's buried the story in bullshit, but I'm not sure he's lost control. I do agree that he has a major fear of pruning or change. There are several characters, such as Arya, he should have had wander out of the story by now but can't let go of. And like I said, it seems like his goal in the third book was to do a hard reset so he didn't need to have any major forward progress. But in Dany and to a lesser extent Bran he's given characters powers that are too powerful, and now he faces the Heroes task of trying to tamp them down while still writing about them. Again, he would have been better served to simply leave them, or reduce them to a chapter or so, and have their progress be chronicled second or third-hand until he was ready to reintroduce them. He's a plot writer, not a character writer, but I'm not sure he's ever understood this about himself which has led to where we are. And before someone comes in and says they love the characters, that's fine, but my point is that most characters have little depth and show little change internally despite external circumstance. This is highlighted by the fact that in the last ADWD chapter, Dany spends most of it thinking about the past but does not take any lessons from it. She just remembers it like she's watching a movie.
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Aug 15, 2012 14:40
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If I'm going to poo poo while I'm watching a movie I leave the theater. The bushes are outside.
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Aug 15, 2012 14:44
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Here's my feeling: His prose is servicable at best (at worst, bizarre, plodding, and just plain icky). What he's best at is action, pulp or epic take your pick. ASOIAF is not a high minded literary venture. What its best at is keeping the readers' eyes glued to the page by an engaging forward plot that upends expectations. The plot dragging to such a comical extent kills my interest in these books.
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Aug 15, 2012 14:57
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Ambiguatron posted:If I'm going to poo poo while I'm watching a movie I leave the theater. This is because you are both a gentleman and a scholar.
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Aug 15, 2012 15:16
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:what we should be discussing is whether Goku could beat Drogon in a fight (he could, handily) No need, dude. Read Malazan. Because that's what the whole things about.
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Aug 15, 2012 17:43
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Okay here's what I'm gonna do. I've got four hours left in my work day and I'm gonna write my Game of Bones chapter right here and now. Luckily I work in an Eisenhower-era office building that's never been renovated so I have my own office. I just got back from lunch and I had Mexican so there's a good chance I'll be taking a Mexi-poo poo at some point too. This will help fuel the GRRM-writing sensibilities. Also, I'm gonna liveblog this. You can literally kick back and watch the ART being made. 1:01 PM - Made this post. Opened Word. Let's get cracking. 1:14 PM - Just compared stabbing with a sword to penetration with a penis. I need to do much better. 1:30 PM - Just reaching 700 words. This is coming easy, perhaps too easy. I have the intense desire to wear a captain's hat. Where can I get one? 1:45 PM - Work interruption. I'll post what I have below for people to see while I go handle this. 2:12 PM - Back at it. 1200 words and I just got to a line break. Progress updated below. I wonder if GRRM browses the internet on his phone while he takes dumps? I bet he does. 3:25 PM - Was afk for like the last hour. I'm going to have to hurry to get this done before I leave. 4:01 PM - 2100 words. How much more is this going to take? 4:58 PM - 2800 words and two minutes left in my work day. Well, I won't be finished but I'm REALLY close. Feels good to get this done, really. When it is, I'll try and get the document up to date with all the new entries and see where we are. Chapter 21 SENSA Sensa stood on her balcony and watched the sun edge toward the western horizon. The sky bloomed a brilliant array of colors, harkening night’s arrival with one last glorious burst of pinks and oranges. The city sat unmoving beneath. Some may have called it peaceful, even quiet. Sensa rather thought it felt like a cornered animal, preparing for the strike. Her mind buzzed with thoughts of Ardi and the plot against her father. Not for the first time, she imagined him fighting boldly, the king at his side, beset by shadowy forms that circled and threatened. Even as they would overpower her father their faces remained hidden from her. They could be a thousand faces, perhaps someone she even knew. Unbidden, Sender’s face coalesced upon one of the forms. “No!” She thought ferociously, “Not my sweet Pound,” but the image would not leave her. Her womanhood ached with a kind of frightened longing as she imagined Sender stabbing her father through the heart even as he had penetrated her with an entirely different kind of sword. Had she really lain with the man that had slain her father? She turned away from the window and back inside, needing her world to shrink to focus her thoughts. Out there perched in the air with the expanse of Directionos stretching away from her, the world seemed too big, too complicated. Inside she could better collect her thoughts and plan her next move; or if she should take any move at all. Sitting on her bed, facing her mirror, she studied the young woman that stared back out at her. Proud and strong, but a little scared, she suddenly reminded herself of her parents. There, in the turn of her nose, her mother’s stubbornness. And just there, in the glint in her eye, her father’s noble fierceness. It reassured her to think of herself as their daughter; the last in a long line of honorable men and women who had changed the world with their hands and minds. She decided to collect her thoughts; put the facts in order and see what stood out. To begin, Ardi was gone. There was no telling when or if she would come back. She had received no communication from her sister and could only hope she had been able to somehow wrest the information from the lockbox that was Hogor’s mind. Waiting for her return would not do. It was too unpredictable, too soft. Was taking no action advisable? No, likely not. Whomever had wanted King Roger and her father dead clearly had their sights on something larger. Jeffrey was Roger’s legitimate son and seemed unlikely to rule much differently than his father had. No drastic change would come to the realm under his kingship. It only stood to reason that whoever had wanted King Roger dead would soon set their eyes on Jeffrey as well. Therefore, Jeffrey was in danger and action could not be postponed. Her course seemed very clear then, she would have to take direct action herself here at the castle. She would need an ally, though, someone she could trust. The Pound leapt to her mind immediately, but she reluctantly had to let that thought go. The thought of him killing her father seemed far too real; with his scarred face and mysterious ways she found it hard to put her faith in him no matter how close she felt they were. Her mother was involved in far too important work to bother, especially without more evidence than the testimony of a girl prone to flights of fancy. Similarly Jeffrey was having enough time wrestling control of the realm from his detractors without being seen as an errand boy for his betrothed’s imagination. She dare not upset his tenuous grasp of power. Who, then? James Lincolnshire, perhaps? Jeffrey’s nuncle had spent his whole life in noble courts and seemed fiercely devoted to his nephew. It may be here best option. She ruminated on the choice for a moment and could see no particular problem with bringing James into her circle of trust on the matter. After all, when Jeffrey and she were married he would be her nuncle too. She imagined his handsome blonde face and knew there could be no treason in his soul. Her mind was made up. She would speak to James tonight. Hurrying around her room, she threw off her gown and slipped into her plainest dress; a colorless cotton number with slits up the side for rambling about the country. Though it was far too warm for it (all of the south was far too warm for her), she also put on a thin, dark cloak and pulled the hood over her head. No need to attract any more attention than she needed to. On her way out the door, she suddenly stopped and as an afterthought snatched a small dagger her father had once given her from where it lay on a table. This, she stuffed into her belt though she felt strange about go out armed. It seemed a thing only men and wildwomen would do, but there was a conspiracy afoot. Etiquette would have to suffer a small blemish. In the fading light, she hurried through the open-air corridors of the castle. She passed by a team of servants lighting the lanterns for the night but they gave her no more notice than they might the moons in the sky. Reaching the tower where James and his sister Sarah held their quarters, she started up the stuffy spiral stairs, already glistening with sweat from the heat and running. She could imagine the iced wine James would have for her, a cool breeze blowing through the window. Soon, she would have a powerful ally and bring her father to justice. She reached the door, a heavy and ornate affair that James must have had shipped special. She thought briefly of the workers who must have had to lug it up the stairs and felt their pain. She guessed James had rewarded them graciously for their work, perhaps even deeming to take refreshment with them after their toil. Such a noble man would, no, could do no less. She grasped the gilded knocker and gently rapped upon the door. There was no immediate movement, but she stood patiently and waited. After a moment, she heard footsteps at the door and saw it crack open just a peak. “I told you not to interrupt me, you stupid man, listen I –“ “Nuncle James?” She deemed to use the familial honorific even though the wedding had not yet taken place. It would be best to quickly ingratiate herself, she felt. “Ah, who – why, Sensa! My dear, you have caught me slightly indisposed. Uhm, just a moment please!” He stammered and the door snapped closed, expelling a small whiff of exotic incense and perhaps even a hint of the sweaty smell Sensa had learned accompanied sex. What was he doing in there? After a few minutes, the door reopened and James appeared with an enormous grin upon his face. “So good to see you, Sensa. Please, will you come in?” Primly, she bowed and let herself into the chambers. The door closed loudly behind her, the booming echo seeming to reverberate ominously in her mind. *** “So,” James said, “You’re quite sure the traitor is in the palace somewhere?” They had retired to James’ sitting room and had sipped iced wine just as Sensa had imagined while she told him her story. He listened intently to her suspicions and she felt more reassured than ever she had made the right choice in trusting him. “Yes, I am sure. Ardi would not lie about that.” James leaned back in his chair, a thoughtful look on his face. He swirled the wine in his cup and drained it with one pull. “Then the choice is clear. We must go to the throne with this. Tonight. It is the only way.” Sensa nodded. While she hated to include Jeffrey without knowing for sure, she supposed James was right. It was his castle and he must be aware of any threats. “And right after, we will dispatch a party to…take care of Ardi as well. A young girl like that may find the road a very dangerous place indeed.” Once again, Sensa saw his wisdom. It had been foolish of her to proceed as far as she had alone. She had risked the stability of the realm by not bringing this matter to the proper authorities at once. She felt ashamed. She still had much to learn, it seemed. “Let’s go my dear,” James said, lurching to his feet. He had a dark look upon his face and Sensa knew it was for worry of his nephew’s safety. Joining him, James led her through the halls to the throne room. This time, she strode proudly with her hood back, hair streaming in the wind. It was night, but Emperor’s Landing never slept and they passed many people in the halls. Sensa knew they cut a striking scene, the royal family marching proud and determined through the halls. Perhaps a painting would be commissioned of this very event to commemorate the foil of the plot. She smiled inwardly at that. They swept past the guards at the door to the throne room and strode boldly through its columned environs. There wasn’t nearly enough light to see well, but Sensa could see a figure that must be Jeffrey seated on the throne in front of her. As they approached, it shifted slightly. Why was it so dark? Sensa reminded herself to tell Jeffrey to keep the throne room less dreary after they were married. James stopped and nudged Sensa in front of him. “Your highness, the Lady Sensa comes with grave tidings indeed,” he said by way of announcement. “She claims to have discovered a plot against the royal person, one based right here in the capitol. What shall we do, your highness?” Sensa beamed up at the throne, proud to have brought Jeffrey this information. He would surely love her all the more. “Oh my, my, my,” A husky voice said from the direction of the throne, but it was not that of Jeffrey. Sensa focused on the form and saw it held an unmistakingly feminine shape. Was that Lady Sarah? What was she doing here? “What a loveable little girl,” The voice continued, spitting the last word out like spoonful of poisoned soup, “And how clever as well! But I urge you to calm your fears. Your Jeffrey is no longer in any danger.” Sensa’s heart was pounding in her chest. What was happening? Where was Jeffrey? “No,” She began, finally rising, her slinky dress outlining her form as she glided forward, “He is quite safe in the dungeons where we have placed him. In fact, I think you might find yourself safer there as well! There are traitors about, after all!” Still unsure of the full depths of what was happening, she suddenly felt the need to run away as fast as she could. As she began to bolt, a steely hand clamped over her mouth and another grabbed her arm, holding her fast. Eyes bulging, she desperately looked for her attacker’s face. James held her tight. He sneered down at her and she wondered why she ever thought of him as noble or handsome or trustworthy or all of those things. She knew suddenly she stared into the face of the traitor; of her father’s killer. She struggled, but he was much stronger than her and she couldn’t do much more than wiggle. She heard Lady Sarah yell for the guards and within seconds, half a dozen men in Lincolnshire livery march into the room. Panicked, she began to thrash and tried to use her free arm to rip James’ hand away from her mouth, but it was no good. Suddenly, she remembered the little dagger in her belt and she ripped it out of its sheath, violently slashing at James’s wrist. As she felt the blade dig into flesh, he jerked away from her, crying out in anguish. “You little bitch!” He screamed, his voice squeaking. Sensa dove away from him, screaming herself. “Sender! Kate! Guards! Treason, treason! Murderers! The Lincolnshires! Sendeeer!” She crouched low like a cat, knife held in front of her, and backed away from her assailants, screaming all the while. Slowly the guards began to form into a semi-circle, backing her toward the edge of room. She menaced with her dagger as much as she could, but it suddenly seemed a feeble weapon against half a dozen longswords. Her feet kept inching backward, the knot of soldiers drawing ever tighter around her. Her heels struck the back wall and she had nowhere else to go. She kept screaming “Sender! Oh please, Sender!” “Shut her up!” James yelled, and the soldiers advanced. Suddenly, he was there, long hair flying and sword swinging in harsh arcs. Metal bit into metal and men began to shout and grunt. Sender broke the line of men and was at her side, dressed in naught but his small clothes but wielding his enormous deadly sword. For a moment the soldiers were confused. “Are you okay?” He growled, looking down at her. She had never seen a more beautiful face. She nodded swiftly, her face a picture of resolve. “You’d better stand down!” The Pound yelled at the guards, inching in front of her. “Or you won’t leave this room alive.” The soldiers stood still for a moment, clearly still recovering. Sender’s strength at arms was renowned in Emperor’s Crossing. Even six against one, did they stand a chance? “You idiots!” Lady Sarah screeched, “He’s just one man! Kill him and her both!” They cast glances between themselves, and then seemed to firm up. They began working their way forward, slowly, tactically. Sender jabbed with his blade, pushing Sensa firmly behind him. “Stop!” A new voice yelled from the entryway to the room. Three people stood in the door, weapons drawn: Ardi, Genden and Hogor! Their attention momentarily distracted by the appearance of the new comers, Sender seemed to see his chance. He launched forward with a battle cry, swinging his blade down hard upon the shoulder of the nearest guard. The man grunted and collapsed to the ground and suddenly the battle was joined. Ardi and her companions scrambled forward to join the fray and everything erupted into dizzying chaos. Sensa saw Sender take a blade to his leg, drawing blood but not cutting too deep. He was giving better than he got though, and the guards seemed to wither in front of his blade. Ardi and Genden fought side by side, engaging the soldiers with a ferocious energy. Hogor waded through the troops, crushing them with his mighty hands. Sensa looked away to see James and Sarah attempted to slip away from the melee and yelled to her companions, but she could see they could not break away from the fervored battle. It was up to her then. Tightening her grip on her little dagger, the dashed toward the door, legs flashing from the slits in her skirt. For a moment she thought they would escape, but she somehow found the speed to cut them off and drew up immediately in front of them, brandishing her blade. “Not so fast!” She croaked, out of her element but trying her best to keep up. The two skidded to halt and before she knew it, she somehow had Sarah by the hair with the dagger pressed to her throat. My, maybe she was good at this! “Sarah!” James cried, arm still covered in blood from where she had slashed him before. He dove for her, but Sensa dug the tip of her blade into Sarah’s throat, drawing blood. That stopped him short. “Tell your men to stop fighting my friends!” She yelled. James hesitated, looking over at the battle. It seemed to be quite well matched. “Tell them!” James looked at the battle, then back to Sarah and then back again. “Stand down!” He hissed at the men. “Louder!” Sensa screamed, digging the knife further in. Sarah yelped. “Stop it! Stop it! Stand down!” He practically bellowed this time and the soldiers paused their assault. Sensa’s friends nearly pressed the attack, but Sender somehow managed to keep them from continuing. “Tell them to drop their weapons!” Sensa demanded and James complied. Hogor collected the swords from the men and the rest quickly bound the troops with their own belts. Sensa marched James and Sarah over and they joined the captives, albeit with much disdain. “Go fetch mother!” Sensa told Ardi and she ran off, leaving Sender and she in charge of the situation. thornghost fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 18:02
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Ha! It's like the worst live art installation ever created.
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Aug 15, 2012 18:29
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pksage posted:
I hope TWOW is more of the same of ADWD/AFFC, honestly. His prose keeps improving, and I would enjoy more ground-level perspectives for the coming wars.
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Aug 15, 2012 20:59
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Okay, so I have to write like 500 more words to resolve my chapter, then go back and do some serious editing because I wrote like half the chapter 5 pints into the night. Actually I'll just post what I have now. If it's about food, I was sober when I wrote it. Probably. "A Game of Bones: Chapter 13" posted:Dawn woke on Emperor’s Crossing and Ardi woke with it. Yesterday’s events were still fresh in her mind and Ardi could remember them like it was just yesterday. Ardi and Genden were playing at swords and Ardi beat him because she's so cool and good at everything. Genden was impressed and the two went exploring the castle a bit. While going through a secret passage, they overheard two people talking about the raid on Nathyn and Roger's party. They didn't see who it was, but now they knew it was a set up and not an Elder attack. Well, Ardi did. Genden mostly seemed confused. His abs may be rock hard, but as far as she could tell his mind was about as dull as a warhammer.
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Aug 15, 2012 21:13
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Were you at least ravenous when you wrote the food bits?
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Aug 15, 2012 21:26
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Azure_Horizon posted:I hope TWOW is more of the same of ADWD/AFFC, honestly. His prose keeps improving, and I would enjoy more ground-level perspectives for the coming wars. "Coming in Autumn 2047: Book 14 of A Song of Ice and Fire, the exciting conclusion to the late George R. R. Martin's epic saga!"
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Aug 16, 2012 00:59
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pksage posted:"Coming in Autumn 2047: Book 14 of A Song of Ice and Fire, the exciting conclusion to the late George R. R. Martin's epic saga!" I doubt GRRM is going to make it to 2017 much less 2047.
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Aug 16, 2012 02:03
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GRRM will live on. He will become a group name, like how some production houses use a pseudonym for the entire writing staff. GRRM is eternal. What is GRRM can never die, but rises again GRRMier and GRRMier.
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Aug 16, 2012 02:04
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You guys always forget that I already figured out when the next books are coming out... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuIUXty2w_uQdHNEQ0pwcG4tZDZncURKbGlua0p6d0E
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Aug 16, 2012 04:30
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Johnny Nomad posted:You guys always forget that I already figured out when the next books are coming out... Oh, well GRRM will only be 92 when the last book comes out. That is so totally doable, especially with the way technology is advancing. Here's hoping he doesn't get geriatric poo poo-dick.
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Aug 16, 2012 06:45
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Johnny Nomad posted:You guys always forget that I already figured out when the next books are coming out... Man, I'd been looking for that thing for ages. thanks for linking it again.
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Aug 16, 2012 07:00
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Sophia posted:That is incorrect. I am willing to concede some of the earlier books - though knowing where it's going, it's easy to look back and see the wheels coming off the wagon after Game of Thrones, sort of like how you can look back at the behavior of a boyfriend who's just gone completely off his rocker and think "oh yeah, that should have been a warning sign" - but ADWD was practically unreadable by published book standards. No semblance of a plot, or forward movement, or character growth, or interest, or cohesive storytelling. Just deconstruction after deconstruction, and how much more nihilism can I shove in there, and what can I do to these characters that will really be shocking. If he has a goal for the series as a whole, it was not apparent in what I read of that book. For me it feels like GRRM's character driven narrative and his commitment to trying to have the characters act in an organic and well 'in-character' manner sort of veered the story to off-course, but I personally enjoyed both AFFC and ADWD, probably cause I marathoned through the entire series so I never really paused to judge each book individually. One example of this is Dany's adventures in Meereen and her decision to stay there, while it can feel like a burdensome unnecessary addition to the story that draws Dany further away from the main events at Westeros it is however a pretty organic and in-chracter decision for Dany to make, furthermore that she considers ruling to be more than just her birthright but that she also has certain obligations to her subjects.
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Aug 16, 2012 16:36
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But also because she figures that if she fucks it all up, it's better to gently caress it all up in someplace that doesn't matter, instead of Westeros. Because deciding on a whim to rule a place you have no knowledge, much less understanding, of isn't a callous decision at all. To be fair to GRRM, he intends that to be the message we're getting about her. I just wish her fans would receive it.
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Aug 16, 2012 16:48
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emanresu tnuocca posted:One example of this is Dany's adventures in Meereen and her decision to stay there, while it can feel like a burdensome unnecessary addition to the story that draws Dany further away from the main events at Westeros it is however a pretty organic and in-chracter decision for Dany to make, furthermore that she considers ruling to be more than just her birthright but that she also has certain obligations to her subjects. This is fine as far as it goes, but it's also a perfect example of something he shouldn't have written about at length. Number one, he's not very good at it, either non-feudal history or writing young women after puberty. Number two, the audience doesn't really give a poo poo about the minutia of Mereen because we know that's not the end game. Number three, it detracts from the story surrounding the Iron Throne, which is supposedly the through line for this story. Again the time skip would have been useful, to allow for a two page "here is what happened" summation of Dany's (and others) storylines, but if he's not going to do that he needed to simply chop her down into a couple of chapters. But he either can't or doesn't understand he needs to, and no one is telling him this basic stuff about how to craft a story instead of a series of words. Which is why his last two books are ultimately failures.
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Aug 16, 2012 17:02
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Before Robb got killed I remember he was sending a boat full of dudes to flank some poo poo or something. Was it ever explained what happened to them or did they never make it out?
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Aug 16, 2012 17:12
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whowhatwhere posted:But also because she figures that if she fucks it all up, it's better to gently caress it all up in someplace that doesn't matter, instead of Westeros. Because deciding on a whim to rule a place you have no knowledge, much less understanding, of isn't a callous decision at all. That's how I felt about the Meereen situation. It's better that she learns how to rule in a place that isn't her birthright (a sort of testing ground if you will) rather than come to Westeros and proceed to screw up further. And that alone helped me see ADWD as a good book, because everything else was okay at first besides her story until I started to analyze why it's worthwhile.
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Aug 16, 2012 18:52
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Sylink posted:Before Robb got killed I remember he was sending a boat full of dudes to flank some poo poo or something. Was it ever explained what happened to them or did they never make it out? Howland Reed ate them.
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Aug 16, 2012 18:58
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Azure_Horizon posted:That's how I felt about the Meereen situation. It's better that she learns how to rule in a place that isn't her birthright (a sort of testing ground if you will) rather than come to Westeros and proceed to screw up further. And that alone helped me see ADWD as a good book, because everything else was okay at first besides her story until I started to analyze why it's worthwhile. What? No. No. That's bad. She shouldn't be using some place as a testing ground. "Oh, it's ok if I ruin their lives, because it's not like they matter" is not reasoning anybody should follow.
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Aug 16, 2012 23:22
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The blood of the dragon does not concern herself with the opinions of non-whites.
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Aug 16, 2012 23:31
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whowhatwhere posted:What? No. No. That's bad. She shouldn't be using some place as a testing ground. "Oh, it's ok if I ruin their lives, because it's not like they matter" is not reasoning anybody should follow. It's not like she's directly doing it, or knows that she's doing it. Meereen is a hosed up city; it hasn't had a stable ruler... ever. She's learning how to rule in a place that's already beyond repair, and so indirectly it is a "test" of how to rule.
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Aug 17, 2012 02:24
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