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Have you considered your end-goal as a veterinarian? That can certainly change through school, but going into it saying, "I want to be a general practitioner on dogs and cats, yay!" carries a vastly different workload/vet school education/internships/residencies than, "I want to be a Neurosurgeon regularly implanting devices in dog's heads for intralesional chemotherapy. It's not like it's rocket science, anyway." If you haven't thought that far ahead, that's no biggie - but then you should start doing more shadowing/assistant work/volunteering with vets to figure out WHY you want to be a vet and WHAT kind of vet you want to be.
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Sep 11, 2012 21:29
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Khelmar posted:Through the front door. No or yes, depending on your country. Since you end up a doctor, a tremendous amount of work is involved, both pre- and during vet school. Honestly, I've considered it once or twice (love animals), but, being a lazy and procrastinating person, the idea of a heavy workload always put me off. So that's proabably it then, if the work is that bad. YourCreation posted:You could read through this thread I tried, but its like reading GiP, all the acronyms and shorthands and terms are just confusing.
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Sep 11, 2012 22:05
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Farecoal posted:Honestly, I've considered it once or twice (love animals), but, being a lazy and procrastinating person, the idea of a heavy workload always put me off. So that's proabably it then, if the work is that bad. Its as hard as medical school to become a doctor for people. In Canada, it is more competitive to get admitted into vet school. I can't speak on the US because I don't have a clue but its probably the same. Lazy procrastinators probably shouldn't become doctors, whether MD, DVM, or PhD. Sorry dude.
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Sep 11, 2012 22:08
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Farecoal posted:Honestly, I've considered it once or twice (love animals), but, being a lazy and procrastinating person, the idea of a heavy workload always put me off. So that's proabably it then, if the work is that bad. My experience was at UC Davis Vet School, which may not be representative of new admits as they have a new curriculum, but the new curriculum sounds pretty time consuming as well: Through the lecture portion of vet school, I was on campus an average of 9 hours every weekday, and maybe 10 hours average every weekend (it's where I studied), for a total averaging about 55 hours/week on campus. That's a lot of time, but I was known as someone who didn't study or take a lot of time outside class to do classwork. There was not an insignificant amount of people who averaged 12 hours on campus every day, with studying at home. In clinical year, although this varied widely depending on clinical rotation, I'd say that weekdays averaged 12 hour days with maybe a lunch half-hour (some rotations on 8 hour days, some rotations 14 hour days, and with on-call 18 hour days, sometimes 24 hours if you're particularly unlucky). Weekend averaged about 6 hours a day, as some rotations had cases over the weekend (including some needing some in depth workups), whereas others just had 1-2 hour stints every 8am and 6pm for treatments, and some had no weekend coverage - but then you got put on the Emergency shifts. However, there were a few times where the treatments on a single patient would take 1-2 hours, and then there were still 3 other patients to get to. That's only if you did only what vet school required of you. If you go out to get more experience (which was really valuable, and I'd argue, necessary), you'd add about 4 hours a week average at least. Basically, going into veterinary medicine only because you love animals will not work. If that's all you're there for, you will have mental breakdowns and consider quitting throughout school and throughout your career. Veterinary medicine is for people who want to help animals (and that help can include euthanizing them), help people (a large part of vet medicine is human psychiatry, either with clients or other vets), solve diagnostic challenges (with a small-decent portion being unsolvable), and be scientists/doctors.
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Sep 11, 2012 23:18
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Khelmar posted:Through the front door. And sometimes you feel like you want to escape from a (second floor) window.
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Sep 12, 2012 00:37
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Topoisomerase posted:And sometimes you feel like you want to escape from a (second floor) window. I had considered trying to take the Chihuly sculpture with me during winter of 2nd year, but then I realized that I'd probably not make it past its outer defensive tentacles. For your viewing pleasure, the Chihuly sculpture! (And writhing pain dog weird painting thing behind it  )http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa48/bcsmith46/1-Daily%20Photos%20for%202009/amber-ice.jpg
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Sep 12, 2012 02:05
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HelloSailorSign posted:I had considered trying to take the Chihuly sculpture with me during winter of 2nd year, but then I realized that I'd probably not make it past its outer defensive tentacles. I don't remember, was it my first year (and your third) when there were maggots falling from it?
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Sep 12, 2012 02:22
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Topoisomerase posted:I don't remember, was it my first year (and your third) when there were maggots falling from it?  Thank you, I had nearly forgotten about that - I don't remember the timing exactly though. Didn't it end up being some poor bird who got stuck in it?
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Sep 12, 2012 02:58
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HelloSailorSign posted:
Yes, a dead bird. "Caution Falling Maggots" was the most wonderful sign!
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Sep 12, 2012 04:33
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Enelrahc posted:Yes, a dead bird. "Caution Falling Maggots" was the most wonderful sign! There's a Gwar song if I've ever heard one.
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Sep 12, 2012 06:23
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Third year. We came in from our Schalm lectures and there was caution tape and maggots and horrified vet students looking on.
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Sep 12, 2012 06:43
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Any of you upper level folks have any advice for someone starting their first clinical year?
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Sep 12, 2012 14:44
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Eating and sleeping are important. Make them priorities or they won't happen. Don't be afraid to ask your classmates for help with anything, patient care, submitting labs, pharmacy runs. Conversely, if you aren't doing something else, be available and willing to help your classmates. This mindset goes a long way toward keeping everyone sane.
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Sep 12, 2012 17:22
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YourCreation posted:Any of you upper level folks have any advice for someone starting their first clinical year? Do everything you can to not piss off the technicians. They can make your life easy, or they can make it a pain in the rear end.
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Sep 13, 2012 02:56
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Not in clinics yet but my observations from summer clinics would agree with Chaco and Khelmar. Be nice to the techs, even if they seem to have little patience with you at first. If you're respectful of their time and skills and eager to at least try to learn, most will start to respect you too. I definitely saw some students who treated them like absolute crap and then I understood why they sometimes seemed to be a bit snippy at fist. And whatever other students on the rotation with you, no matter what you think of them outside of the place or in classes or whatever...they're your teammates. Things go a lot more smoothly when everyone pitches in to help and you'll all have different skill levels, strengths and knowledge bases so take advantage of that and teach and learn. And if you get stuck with a gunner rear end in a top hat who throws you under the bus, roll your eyes and ignore it as best you can. The faculty, residents and techs KNOW who these people are and most don't fall for their poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2012 04:08
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Thanks for the tips guys. I was a technician for five years so hopefully that part won't be too much of a problem.
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Sep 13, 2012 06:34
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Definitely put on a good show if you're on clinics with someone you don't like. The residents/faculty/techs didn't read your autobiography, so if they see you being a dick, they just see you being a dick - they don't know if THAT person threw you under a convoy of buses a few years back or if you just need your head examined. Generally, if someone is bad enough that they get under your skin that much they'll also show enough of it to those that matter that they'll still get what's coming to them. As far as food, I would recommend being crafty and making a lot of stuff beforehand and freezing for future use - potstickers, tamales, yummy pasta sauces... so that you don't end up eating really lovely/unhealthy stuff. Heck, even going to Trader Joe's (or whatever good store) and filling up your freezer with their better freezer stuff would be a good idea. Make sure you also get in the habit of drinking a lot of water. Although thinking you'll have to pee more frequently, being dehydrated to the point of hypovolemia is not a smart thing to do. Then when you stand up to get out of your patient's cage you fall right back in!
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Sep 13, 2012 07:02
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New client form asks for breed of dog. Somehow, I am not surprised that the woman who bred her dog for the first time at 8 years old, despite our office advising her otherwise, wrote "dockson."
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Sep 14, 2012 19:14
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I had equine anesthesia lab today. It was horrifying/hilarious when the recovering mare swung wide, did a magnificent barrel roll, and all of the SA people (myself included) scattered. She was all over the place, falling over and lunging forward, so it was certainly an exciting afternoon. It did not convince me to be an equine vet.
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Sep 14, 2012 20:55
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Dr. Chaco posted:New client form asks for breed of dog. Somehow, I am not surprised that the woman who bred her dog for the first time at 8 years old, despite our office advising her otherwise, wrote "dockson." Did she fill the form out in crayon too?
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Sep 14, 2012 22:29
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Asstro Van posted:I had equine anesthesia lab today. It was horrifying/hilarious when the recovering mare swung wide, did a magnificent barrel roll, and all of the SA people (myself included) scattered. She was all over the place, falling over and lunging forward, so it was certainly an exciting afternoon. It did not convince me to be an equine vet. I also tend to see equine clients as far more crazy then the crazy ones are in small animal... There was an equine client when I was on Ophtho who referred to my classmate (who was luckily large animal emphasis) on the case as "twerp" or "twit." All doctors were first name basis. The same client demanded that their horse have toys to play with in the hospital stall - not like, a ball... but 2 liter soda bottles filled with rocks. Cuz, you know, that wouldn't disturb the other horse patients there. Then, when there was a lot of discussion about the case with the client, the client threatened to kill the doctors, "shoot you dead" etc., going on how they were an ex-cop and had guns and could shoot anyone they wanted. Let me tell you, stalking that case in the electronic system, where ALL communication with the client was being logged, was AMAZING.
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Sep 14, 2012 23:32
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Aren't horse people notorious for being absolutely bonkers, though?
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Sep 15, 2012 00:13
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HelloSailorSign posted:I also tend to see equine clients as far more crazy then the crazy ones are in small animal... I'll admit though, my favorite clients are the alpaca people. I saw one owner drive up with two alpacas in the rear of a Ford Explorer to pick up a cria. She walks in, picks up the cria, lowers the rear window halfway down, and dumps in the cria, all while trying to keep the other two random alpacas from jumping out the back of the Explorer. They also have bitchin' good alcohol at their parties. Almond sparkling wine! Asstro Van posted:I had equine anesthesia lab today. It was horrifying/hilarious when the recovering mare swung wide, did a magnificent barrel roll, and all of the SA people (myself included) scattered. She was all over the place, falling over and lunging forward, so it was certainly an exciting afternoon. It did not convince me to be an equine vet.
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Sep 15, 2012 01:00
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Enelrahc posted:Yeah, horses are so dumb This. I once had someone in a Ford Festiva (2 door hatchback) bring in a goat when I was on food animal. I was amazed (and revolted). One of the pathologists at WSU brought in a pig for one of my resident mates to kiss for a bet, and never got the smell out of his Explorer.
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Sep 15, 2012 02:22
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Hey-I'm currently a Ph.D student who is unhappy with academia. I'm partially considering changing over to a master's degree, then applying to vet school, for various reasons. First off, I find academia/lab very unstructured and I need routine to function. Second, the adviser I have right now seems to expect to much of me in terms of workload and time: He wants me there 9-5 every weekday, evenings, and weekends. I've actually had him scold me for not coming in on a Sunday to analyze my data when I was running experiments all that Saturday. Third, I feel way more fulfilled when doing volunteer work for the local shelter than pretty much anything I do in grad school. So, I have a few questions. First, has anyone ever transferred from a Ph.D program to a vet program? Everything I can find seems to be for undergrads only. Second, what is vet school school like in terms of workload? What is vet practice like in terms of structure, hours worked (I've decided I really need something lie a 9-5 and am not going to get that on my current path), etc? Third-I'm very concerned about the cost of vet school if I do this? Will I be crushed by debt forever if I transfer?
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Sep 15, 2012 18:11
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Arkham Angel posted:
Workload: less research/experimenting (basically none if you don't want to) but lots and lots of lecture, hands-on labs, studying, and tests. Once you get to clinical year, days tend to range from 8-10 hours for easy rotations to 12-15 plus on-call nights and weekends for harder ones. Once you are a vet, hours can be 9-5 in some practices, but I think it is more realistic to expect some nights, weekends, emergencies, etc. 4 10 hour days per week is becoming more common in vet med, and some clinics have long hours, so your schedule might be 8 to 6 or 12 to 10 or something like that, and may include weekends because that's when owners actually have time to bring animals in. Cost: cost will be enormous. If you take out most or all of the cost in loans, it is entirely possible that you will have difficulty making loan payments on your salary out of school and you could very well end up paying back your student loans for decades. There are some options to alleviate this, such as income-based repayment (your loan payments are based on a percentage of what you make, not what you owe) but who knows if these programs will continues/be available for long enough for you to use them.
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Sep 15, 2012 19:04
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Arkham Angel posted:So, I have a few questions. First, has anyone ever transferred from a Ph.D program to a vet program? Everything I can find seems to be for undergrads only. Second, what is vet school school like in terms of workload? What is vet practice like in terms of structure, hours worked (I've decided I really need something lie a 9-5 and am not going to get that on my current path), etc? Third-I'm very concerned about the cost of vet school if I do this? Will I be crushed by debt forever if I transfer? This is all assuming you are in the US. You will apply exactly like an undergrad, despite the fact that you were going for a Ph.D. You will have to take any prerequisite courses that you are missing, and you will have to get some veterinary experience. If your GRE has expired, you will have to retake that as well (and since they changed it up last year, you may have to anyway). You can't really "transfer," you've got to go through the same process as everyone else and compete with the same pool of applicants. I did a MS degree in a lab with expectations similar to your PI's it seems (except we were expected to be here until 7-8 pm rather than just 5), and the workload in vet school is more intense. Chaco already told you about what it's like here (at UC Davis) and I suspect most schools are similar. The tuition is high, very high. You will go into significant debt unless you have substantial savings. And if you want to go into a 9-5 practice job where you're not expected to cover emergency or call or anything like that, you probably will be pretty drat slow to pay that debt off. Practice ownership and specialization will both require much more significant hours and financial investment put in for many years before you get that 9-5 schedule and get paid enough to actually pay down your debt.
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Sep 15, 2012 20:26
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Also, as someone with both degrees, the Ph.D. is MUCH more self-directed - you basically do research to get the work done. The DVM is very much NOT self-directed - you do what they tell you when they tell you. Most students graduate with somewhere around $60,000-$80,000 in debt from vet school. My class (2001) had an average total student debt of about $100,000. The highest debt load was about $250,000. One of my classmates had a Ph.D. already, and the application procedure was much different for him. However, that's not true at all schools. Where are you at? It might help to talk to an admissions counselor at a vet school near you, to get a better idea of how to go about what you're trying to do.
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Sep 15, 2012 22:09
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Khelmar posted:One of my classmates had a Ph.D. already, and the application procedure was much different for him. However, that's not true at all schools. That's a little different from leaving the Ph.D. and taking a consolation Masters though which is what the poster is proposing doing. Also if you finish the Ph.D. you can probably get some amount of funding for vet school provided you're interested in continuing in research, but it doesn't sound like he is at all so I figured that's all moot point.
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Sep 16, 2012 00:00
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Ugh I hate dogs that have had the growl beat out of them. Now I'm gonna be paranoid about all rescue dogs until... well, forever. 80lbs worth coming at your face and feeling the teeth graze your cheek makes for a surge of epinephrine though! And then afterwards it came up for scratches. wth.
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Sep 23, 2012 20:48
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Hey Topo I got a Neuro research topic for you: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19229065
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Sep 25, 2012 06:28
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HelloSailorSign posted:Hey Topo I got a Neuro research topic for you: Of course this came from LSU. I mean what the hell else do you have to study down there. Giant man eating gators and mosquitoes the size of an astro van?
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Sep 25, 2012 18:45
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HelloSailorSign posted:Hey Topo I got a Neuro research topic for you: Wonder if I could get Tim Tebow to co-author this.
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Sep 25, 2012 21:32
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This week: first rattlesnake envenomation and first parvo puppy (fortunately, not the same dog). Last week was my first asthmatic cat and first marijuana intoxication case.
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Sep 29, 2012 03:50
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Dr. Chaco posted:This week: first rattlesnake envenomation and first parvo puppy (fortunately, not the same dog). Last week was my first asthmatic cat and first marijuana intoxication case. Uhh did the animal ingest or inhale the weed?
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Sep 29, 2012 04:23
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wtftastic posted:Uhh did the animal ingest or inhale the weed? Usually they eat it because those naughty neighbor kids are always leaving it out. Or "a friend" left it out. I had to cross-match a horse the other day at work and it was a bit exciting since I couldn't find some keys to the labs, but I eventually got my supplies and did it...and what I got matched the same as hematology the next day, so I'm pretty proud of that one! Not like it's rocket science but yeah. It's like I learned something in school!
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Sep 29, 2012 04:33
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wtftastic posted:Uhh did the animal ingest or inhale the weed? Assume ingestion...the owner did not actually see the dog get into, but they do grow weed, and all the clinical signs fit, and the dog got better over the next 24hrs like he should have, so we're going with pot as the presumptive diagnosis. There is an in-house urine test for pot, I believe, but we don't have it.
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Sep 29, 2012 04:38
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So here is a dumb post My girlfriend completed vet school app stuff, everything was finished, etc. Checked to make sure transcripts were sent and all that fun stuff, met the deadlines (in theory) for all the schools she cared about. Yesterday she was browsing one of the school's portals and found that, out of the 5 or 6 colleges she had transcripts coming in from (she studied abroad + went back to school for a second degree), one of them had not been received. She has this college on record stating it sent out transcripts, but at least one of her vet schools never received them. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to do about this? Is she screwed? Is there a way to get a transcript added if an administrative error caused the problem? I know this might not be something people here know but it's worth an ask!
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Oct 8, 2012 14:52
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I think most schools would be flexible in that regards. I would just contact the schools individually and see what they have to say.
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Oct 8, 2012 15:31
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Yeah I wouldn't be too concerned. They'll probably send her an email saying they didn't get it and give her some time to get it in.
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Oct 8, 2012 19:27
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