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dwarf74 posted:Even within the book sometimes. Early on there's a reference to "chaining words" required to channel warrens, but that seems to have disappeared by the end of the book. Just finished my reread and noticed that Icarium and Mappo who we see a lot more of in DG get a few mentions, as well as the occasional reference to the K'Chain Che'Malle and Forkrul Assail who play significant roles much later in the series.
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Oct 26, 2012 05:59
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I just read the first big battle in Gardens of the Moon and holy poo poo.  I don't usually read fantasy books, but I think I'm in for the long haul with this series.
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Oct 30, 2012 20:58
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apophenium posted:I just read the first big battle in Gardens of the Moon and holy poo poo.  That's small potatoes compared to what comes later!
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Oct 31, 2012 02:46
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Not to mention that particular battle, if you're talking about what happens at Moonspawn, creates little things that basically reverberate through the entire series.
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Oct 31, 2012 02:47
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I should totally be in bed right now, but i just finished reading chapter 21 of Toll the Hounds. This is the chapter where we learn that Hood is Jaghut, and then Anomander Rake kills him. Holy poo poo. I need to keep reading. Dassem Ultor said he was going to kill Hood. Now what will happen? Someone needs to take his place. Sorry for the terrible post, but I'm just astounded right now and had to say something.
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Oct 31, 2012 05:59
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pakman posted:I should totally be in bed right now, but i just finished reading chapter 21 of Toll the Hounds. This is the chapter where we learn that Hood is Jaghut, and then Anomander Rake kills him. Holy poo poo. I need to keep reading. Dassem Ultor said he was going to kill Hood. Now what will happen? Someone needs to take his place. Spoiler for a chapter or so past where you're at right now: IT WAS ALL PART OF THE PLAN 
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Oct 31, 2012 06:49
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I finished two more chapters, but it is now 1:30 am, and i must be up for work in a few hours. : will have to finish the last chapter later today. drat. That's all I can say.
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Oct 31, 2012 07:24
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There really needs to be a book/novella about the Mott Irregulars
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Oct 31, 2012 13:47
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I'm about a quarter of the way through Gardens of the Moon. The whole magic thing is taking some getting used to. The last series I was really into was the First Law series. Sure it had some magic but few and far between. Though I do appreciate the warrens bit rather than just 'A wizard did it' type explanation.
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Oct 31, 2012 14:05
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zenless posted:I'm about a quarter of the way through Gardens of the Moon. The whole magic thing is taking some getting used to. The last series I was really into was the First Law series. Sure it had some magic but few and far between. Though I do appreciate the warrens bit rather than just 'A wizard did it' type explanation. The magic system is fairly complex. As you read farther into the series, you'll get a pretty good idea of how things work. Some stuff is explained and some stuff you can glean by thinking on what you've read. That's one reason I really like the Malazan series. There's a fair amount of interesting stuff you can figure out (not necessarily all of it vital information) if you think about it.
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Oct 31, 2012 15:20
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I have to say it's tough to read through some of the thread without going over the spoilers! So far this is what I had hoped the Black Company series was going to be. I couldn't even make it through the first book of that series!
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Oct 31, 2012 15:34
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I'm so glad a lot of people seem to be picking up the series lately. I was worried pretty much everyone would be done wanting to talk about the books by the time I finished. I still feel like I missed out on a lot of the discussion and general excitement as I plowed through the first couple books.
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Oct 31, 2012 22:22
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I just finished Toll the Hounds. What a weird ending. What exactly happened with Rake inside of Dragnipur? And then it spread to Black Coral to stop the Crippled God, and the Mother Dark returned, but she was there all along in Aranatha? I definitely thought that someone else would be the one to carry Dragnipur like Dassem. Interesting that all the souls were released via Caladan breaking the sword. I am going to read a couple lighter things before I start the next book, I think.
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Oct 31, 2012 23:32
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I am really struggling with Midnight Tides. I don't outright hate it, and can't think of anything specific I dislike about it, it's just not grabbing me at all. I'm about 3/4 of the way through according to my kindle, but it's about as difficult to get through as the first half of GotM. And every time I start getting into it the POV changes and I'm back to square one  Also, I saw a few people saying Tehol and Bugg are their favorite characters, but I just don't get it. Sometimes I get a chuckle out of their conversations, but for the most part the "hey look how wacky and random these guys are!" thing just completely falls flat for me. So far the only characters I've found remotely memorable or interesting are the Crimson Guard people Seren ended up with, but they seem to only show up for very brief parts and then it's back to a bunch of "Bugg is making soup with a shoe sole! Trull thinks Rhulad is kind of a dick! Page after page of philosophizing about the nature of capitalism!" I guess overall it just feels like a lot of words without much actually happening. Does the next book go back to the plotlines from the earlier ones, or does it stick with this stuff for a while? I want more Bridgeburners and Karsa 
CORN NOG fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 02:30
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CORN NOG posted:I am really struggling with Midnight Tides. I don't outright hate it, and can't think of anything specific I dislike about it, it's just not grabbing me at all. I'm about 3/4 of the way through according to my kindle, but it's about as difficult to get through as the first half of GotM. And every time I start getting into it the POV changes and I'm back to square one I was also initially not particularly impressed, especially given that it's a sharp left turn away from the style of previous characterizations, but they develop a bit more in future books and get less monkey-cheese-derpish.
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Nov 1, 2012 02:44
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Torsade de Pointes posted:The magic system is fairly complex. As you read farther into the series, you'll get a pretty good idea of how things work. Some stuff is explained and some stuff you can glean by thinking on what you've read. That's one reason I really like the Malazan series. There's a fair amount of interesting stuff you can figure out (not necessarily all of it vital information) if you think about it. It's also worth noting that there's not "one way" to do magic. Aside from standard warrens and Elder warrens, there's also spirits and tribal gods, which can sometimes function magically when normal warrens don't for some reason. And the way mages interact with their warrens can be very personalized - there's a great passage in Memories of Ice describing how all the Bridgeburner mages use their warrens differently.
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Nov 1, 2012 07:56
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pakman posted:I just finished Toll the Hounds. What a weird ending. What exactly happened with Rake inside of Dragnipur? And then it spread to Black Coral to stop the Crippled God, and the Mother Dark returned, but she was there all along in Aranatha? It's been almost 2 years since I finished TtH, but IIRC Rake got himself killed so he could release the Gate inside Dragnipur. Remember that Draconus sealing the Gate inside the sword also bound Mother Dark, and if the Gate fell MD would also perish. Rake sacrificing himself to release the Gate convinced Mother Dark to forgive the Andii. She was an observer in Aranatha, but didn't seem to be able to act (or didn't want to) until Rake's sacrifice. Also, you're referring to the Dying God, not the Crippled God. The Dying God is an unwanted remnant of Silverfox/most of Bellurdan that encounted Hairlock's puppet and tried to emulate him. IMO, there's no way Dassem would be able to carry Dragnipur. The weight of all the souls takes massive inner strength, and Dassem's pretty broken emotionally. It's a pretty drat heavy book to read, and the next two are like that too.
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Nov 1, 2012 08:22
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IncendiaC posted:IMO, there's no way Dassem would be able to carry Dragnipur. The weight of all the souls takes massive inner strength, and Dassem's pretty broken emotionally. I couldn't disagree stronger. We're talking about the Lord of Tears, God of Tragedy here. If he had wanted the sword, he could have carried the weight. In fact, it would have added to him. Deepened the tragedy around him. Could a room be too dark for Mother Dark? Would Mael struggle to live in a house at the bottom of the ocean, given the lack of air and the intense pressure? Remember, the crippled god seems to thrive on pain and suffering. Equally, Dassem's very essence is tragedy.
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Nov 1, 2012 09:08
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A god in pain is not the same as an evil god, to quote Silchas Ruin. I'm doing a re-read and holy poo poo does Eriksson reveal a lot if you know what to look for...
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Nov 1, 2012 10:48
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Stew Man Chew posted:I was also initially not particularly impressed, especially given that it's a sharp left turn away from the style of previous characterizations, but they develop a bit more in future books and get less monkey-cheese-derpish. I don't know that Tehol ever stops being somewhat monkey-cheese-ish, but it's more of a Shakespearean Fool's "I tell the truth while acting like an idiot" than most attempts, and Bugg is largely interesting because of how his presentation contrasts with his true identity.
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Nov 1, 2012 18:35
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Masonity posted:I couldn't disagree stronger. Hmm, I never thought of it that way before, and it would be kind of fitting. I still think of him as regular human Dassem and not ascendant Lord of Tragedy.
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Nov 1, 2012 18:50
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Leospeare posted:It's also worth noting that there's not "one way" to do magic. Aside from standard warrens and Elder warrens, there's also spirits and tribal gods, which can sometimes function magically when normal warrens don't for some reason. I think the reason is that warrens are kind of a younger and still-developing offspring of the holds that primitive cultures interact with. Does that sound right? I'm almost finished with Midnight Tides and still barely have a grasp of this. I have no idea what the gently caress kind of magic the Letherii are dealing with. Vertigus fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Nov 2, 2012 |
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Nov 2, 2012 01:16
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Vertigus posted:I think the reason is that warrens are kind of a younger and still-developing offspring of the holds that primitive cultures interact with. Does that sound right? I'm almost finished with Midnight Tides and still barely have a grasp of this. I have no idea what the gently caress kind of magic the Letherii are dealing with. Sort of yes and sort of no actually on the warrens. I think there's more light shed on this in Bonehunters and Reaper's Gale. This is what I remember about it, but if you're wanting to figure it out on your own I think this knowledge comes from books farther along than MT. The warrens are actually shattered fragments of Kurald Emurlahn that were claimed by pure blood Eleint. That's why certain dragons have aspects matching up with specific warrens. Also, fits with why otataral can block warren magic. Spite in TBH says that otataral is Starvald Demelain but entropic/negating in its nature. At least, that's what I remember. I haven't yet read the last book, so I might be wrong. I took a break and decided to start over rather than read the last book only half remembering everything. I'm currently on Reaper's Gale 
Torsade de Pointes fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Nov 2, 2012 |
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Nov 2, 2012 02:14
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Torsade de Pointes posted:This is what I remember about it, but if you're wanting to figure it out on your own I think this knowledge comes from books farther along than MT. The warrens are actually shattered fragments of Kurald Emurlahn that were claimed by pure blood Eleint. That's why certain dragons have aspects matching up with specific warrens. Also, fits with why otataral can block warren magic. Spite in TBH says that otataral is Starvald Demelain but entropic/negating in its nature. Where does Krul come into this, or am I confused about something? (It's been a bit since the last time I read a Malazan book so I might be forgetting something.)
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Nov 2, 2012 02:33
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Base Emitter posted:Where does Krul come into this, or am I confused about something? (It's been a bit since the last time I read a Malazan book so I might be forgetting something.) Again, don't have input from the last book but I think he bargained with the Eleint in a gambit to heal the broken fragments of Emurlahn. If not to restore the old realm itself, then to create something new from the broken and wayward pieces. He provided some of his blood/body to help with the creation. They do their magic and the result is the warrens. K'rul is happy to let others use his creation and I think for the most part the Eleint have to leave as well once they are done. Something about their chaotic nature interferes with or disrupts the fragments. The spilling of their blood was responsible for shattering Emurlahn in the first place iirc.
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Nov 2, 2012 03:25
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So thanks to the recommendations of the project eternity thread I've grabbed the first book. Confused but interested so far. 
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Nov 2, 2012 04:06
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Torsade de Pointes posted:Sort of yes and sort of no actually on the warrens. I think there's more light shed on this in Bonehunters and Reaper's Gale. About the warrens and K'rul, K'rul opened his own veins and created the warrens out of his own blood; Kurald Emurlahn is Elder Shadow, which K'rul had nothing to do with and existed before the warrens, and it's shattering created SOME warrens, like Shadow, and mini-warrens some entities have taken over, like the warren of the Whirlwind and The Crippled God's little pocket warren he travels around in. The warrens K'rul created were around before Kurald Emurlahn shattered. Otataral formed as a response to the jade giants and their power, to isolate/subdue, and has no effect on Elder magic; only the warrens. That's why most of it is mined on Otataral Isle, where there are a lot of the jade giants. I don't think we know for certain how Emurlahn shattered, something to do with Father Shadow's death and later hints of Icarium, but nothing concrete. Many of the dragons wanted to claim the fragments of the shattered warren for themselves, I think that's what was read in that part with Kilmandaros killing them. An issue with this series is that while lots was planned out before, Erikson has said in interviews that he does stream-of-consciousness writing and that's why there are a lot of inconsistencies in this series when it comes to the rules of the world. He knows where he is headed and major points but new things crop up on his way there and don't always fit in with what we already know. In his prequel series starting with Forge of Darkness a lot of this stuff, like the warrens, is explored or mentioned; what I wrote here is from the main series only.
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Nov 2, 2012 05:36
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Given that Erikson has his anthropology/archaeology thing going on, I wouldn't be surprised if there simply isn't any possible overarching "grand unified theory" of magic, etc, because its supposed to reflect the variety of magical and religious practices of all kinds of cultures across many times and places. It's not all going to fit into one system.
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Nov 2, 2012 05:55
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Looks like next Esslemont book, "Blood and Bone" has now release date set to November 22nd in Kindle international store. He's been improving a lot since the first book and Orb, Sceptre, Throne was pretty good so I think I'll be preordering this one.
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Nov 2, 2012 08:05
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PlushCow posted:About the warrens and K'rul, K'rul opened his own veins and created the warrens out of his own blood; Kurald Emurlahn is Elder Shadow, which K'rul had nothing to do with and existed before the warrens, and it's shattering created SOME warrens, like Shadow, and mini-warrens some entities have taken over, like the warren of the Whirlwind and The Crippled God's little pocket warren he travels around in. The warrens K'rul created were around before Kurald Emurlahn shattered. All warrens are tied to one or more dragons, so I think that we that the theory of saving fragments of Kurald Emurlahn and dragon blood has some bearing. Also Tellann Imass -> T'Lan Imass PlushCow posted:Otataral formed as a response to the jade giants and their power, to isolate/subdue, and has no effect on Elder magic; only the warrens. That's why most of it is mined on Otataral Isle, where there are a lot of the jade giants. Otataral is created by the world as a scab on wounds from terrible magic, like the Jade Giants or a mage war. I think that it's in Bonehunters we are told that it wasn't the Jade giants that caused Otataral island... PlushCow posted:I don't think we know for certain how Emurlahn shattered, something to do with Father Shadow's death and later hints of Icarium, but nothing concrete. Many of the dragons wanted to claim the fragments of the shattered warren for themselves, I think that's what was read in that part with Kilmandaros killing them. For some reason Kilmandros wanted to keep the Throne of Shadow unoccupied and so did Anomander and so they allied, this is also in the prologue of RG.
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Nov 2, 2012 11:52
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I just finished Gardens of the Moon and really enjoyed it. I was scared off for a while with everyone saying how intimidating or challenging the series was but I found it really easy to get into - in fact, it was kind of disappointing when I stopped being thrust headlong into new situations and the scope of the story became clear. Just one comment, in the foreword Erickson says that a lot of people drop out at about 1/3 into the story, but I don't think that's because it's that they run out of patience by then. There was a notable dropoff in quality a little after a third of the way through, where there was a ton of bald explanation clumsily crammed into dialogue and thoughts, as if someone told him "the reader is going to be totally lost here and you have to explain every drat thing to them," and he did it in the most halfhearted way possible. Fortunately the book picks up again soon afterwards. So I guess if anyone else is getting to that point just plow on, it gets better again.
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Nov 2, 2012 12:33
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Mozi posted:I just finished Gardens of the Moon and really enjoyed it. I wasn't hooked on the series until the conclusion of the Chain of Dogs arc at the end of the next book. If you find yourself wavering at all, just finish book 2 and you'll be locked in. God drat that loving arc. I need to do a series re-read at some point, but I have so much on my plate to read right now.
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Nov 2, 2012 12:41
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Stubb Dogg posted:Looks like next Esslemont book, "Blood and Bone" has now release date set to November 22nd in Kindle international store. He's been improving a lot since the first book and Orb, Sceptre, Throne was pretty good so I think I'll be preordering this one. Are you kidding me? US Amazon is showing May 21, 2013!
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Nov 2, 2012 14:14
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Mozi posted:the scope of the story became clear. If you read just GotM then you can't have any idea about the scope of the story. ulmont posted:Are you kidding me? US Amazon is showing May 21, 2013! Because that's probably Tor release. The UK release is the one in three weeks.
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Nov 2, 2012 16:51
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Abalieno posted:Because that's probably Tor release. The UK release is the one in three weeks. I think I may have to flip my kindle back to the UK in three weeks then. 5 months' loving delay is ridiculous.
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Nov 2, 2012 16:55
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Abalieno posted:If you read just GotM then you can't have any idea about the scope of the story. Obviously I'm not talking about the series in general. There is a point in GotM where new characters stop being introduced and the focus of the book narrows, and that's what I was referring to. I'm not sure why you would think that I would presume to understand the arc of a 10-book series partway through the first book; I did not mean to give that impression.
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Nov 2, 2012 17:09
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Well, in other series the first book lays down the arc pretty clearly. By reading the first book of ASoIaF you get the idea of what the arc is about, same for the Wheel of Time.
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Nov 2, 2012 17:50
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ulmont posted:Are you kidding me? US Amazon is showing May 21, 2013! It also shows that date for both hardcover and paperback so who knows.
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Nov 3, 2012 02:01
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Abalieno posted:Well, in other series the first book lays down the arc pretty clearly. By reading the first book of ASoIaF you get the idea of what the arc is about, same for the Wheel of Time. Well... fair enough. I guess I should have mentioned that while I just started reading it, I've picked up enough about the series - that it has enormous scale, that it's based or a GURPS campaign, what to expect as far as storytelling and unexplained yet portentous asides - that my expectations were different going in. Sorry about being snippy.
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Nov 3, 2012 09:31
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Vertigus posted:I think the reason is that warrens are kind of a younger and still-developing offspring of the holds that primitive cultures interact with. Does that sound right? I'm almost finished with Midnight Tides and still barely have a grasp of this. I have no idea what the gently caress kind of magic the Letherii are dealing with. Letherii and everyone else on the continent use Holds. Holds are much less-fleshed-out, but they are older and more primitive, evidently used before Warrens were around to use. They seem to mostly lend themselves to two things: (1) Impressive brute-force battlefield magic at grand scales, and (2) Rituals involving a whole shitload of people for (1). Think in terms of engines - a new 4 cylinder likely puts out more power than an old 8-cylinder. Also, CPUs - newer CPUs run at lower speeds, but accomplish more with each cycle. OR: A big ogre vs. a guy with a rifle.
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Nov 3, 2012 23:32
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