|
Because it's overconvenient? Because it adds nothing to the narrative other than a comfortable ending? Because SPACE MAGIC is literally more believable. It's sometimes better to not explain how something happens and attribute it to forces not entirely within the comprehension of the characters than to base it in something that can't be made to make sense. Q works because his power never IS explained. If they went along and said ah, well you see there's this tiny device that blah blah blah, it would all deflate. Q also works because the magic is far, far secondary to the point of his personality and the problems it creates. From what we read, the early event that somehow foreshadows the end does NOT count as setting up a proper ending, it's a hollow attempt to deflect questions.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
AlternateAccount posted:Does simply putting an implausible and inexplicable event earlier on in your runtime suddenly validate it for all following instances?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:12
|
|
|
It's really not a surprise this guy's so eager to pounce on a new script by Damon Lindelof, after reading his input on Prometheus being a "bad movie full stop period". I really don't see why blood I'm assuming belongs to Khan (at least from what spoilers I have seen, trying not to delve too deeply) wouldn't be able to cure sickness and generally be better quality. I mean wasn't it stated in Space Seed or DS9/ENT that Khan and his kin were rendered impervious to sickness? That's part of why he's superior, it's part of the whole "improved breed of human" spiel that's explained in his first episode. I'm pretty sure they use serum now to help treat diseases, why can't that be taken a step further? Blood that can cure illness has more grounding in reality than "magic drug that can cure any and all mental illness", as shown in Whom Gods Destroy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
korusan posted:It's really not a surprise this guy's so eager to pounce on a new script by Damon Lindelof, after reading his input on Prometheus being a "bad movie full stop period". I would be a lot more okay with this. Better at curing disease? Healing damage? Resisting illnesses for which there's no cure? Makes you stronger, faster? Sure, okay, that's all great and there's biological precedent for it. It's internally consistent. Raising someone from the loving DEAD? Uhhh, no.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:15
|
|
|
Establishing your magical ending early on doesn't make it less stupid, it makes it Chekhov's Gun instead of Deus Ex Machina. It's up to the execution to determine if it's good or bad, and it just means your writers at least passed high school creative writing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
If it's well written and serves the themes of the film it doesn't matter if it's biologically feasible, movies are fun like that. Wait until you've seen it, if the writing sucks say so then.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
Has it been mentioned how long he's been dead for? This is important.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:19
|
|
|
AlternateAccount posted:It's sometimes better to not explain how something happens and attribute it to forces not entirely within the comprehension of the characters than to base it in something that can't be made to make sense. Hah, this is like the exact opposite pedantic criticism that Abrams/Lindelof usually get and in both cases it's apart of a false dichotomy. It's the black goo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:19
|
|
|
korusan posted:Has it been mentioned how long he's been dead for? This is important. If it's any longer than about five minutes I for one will march right out of the theater and demand a refund.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:22
|
|
|
Bringing back Khan isn't really rehashing Space Seed either if the spoilers are to be believed. The Dark Knight has proved you can take an iconic character who's already had a great performance done unto him, tell a completely different story with a new actor, and have it be just as entertaining, except in different ways.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:22
|
|
|
I'm going to see Best of Both Worlds tonight how would you guys rank it on the Biological Feasibility Chart? I'm thinking a 6.4, 7 at best.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:23
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:If it's any longer than about five minutes I for one will march right out of the theater and demand a refund. A pack of people walked out of Breaking Dawn pt 2 at the end when all the heads started flying. That movie ruled.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:23
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:If it's any longer than about five minutes I for one will march right out of the theater and demand a refund. I'll give them five and a half.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:24
|
|
|
korusan posted:Bringing back Khan isn't really rehashing Space Seed either if the spoilers are to be believed. The Dark Knight has proved you can take an iconic character who's already had a great performance done unto him, tell a completely different story with a new actor, and have it be just as entertaining, except in different ways. That's another thing too. For some reason reusing a character* is somehow taboo unless it happens to be from a comic book property. *this is ignoring the race aspect, which is a legitimate concern but is not what people are bitching about
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
AlternateAccount posted:I would be a lot more okay with this. The spoiler bullet points aren't a minute-by-minute account of how the movie goes down. For all we know, Kirk is 'dead' for all of 2 minutes, and Khan's blood just induces hyper-fast natural healing that allows him to recover rather than actually dying. They could explain it as Khan's blood having super white blood cells or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:If it's any longer than about five minutes I for one will march right out of the theater and demand a refund.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Now we are approaching levels of not having any dam clue about modern medicine levels of whining. Technically speaking at the very maximum you can be dead for a half an hour using modern day technology. I would imagine more so using space science. Hell after careful searching that is what stasis pods are designed to do. I think that might have been sarcasm you just  'd about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 22:38
|
|
|
AlternateAccount posted:I would be a lot more okay with this. You don't know what internally consistent means.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
Magic blood ruins all future drama in the series. Oh, is Uhura going to die of Space Rabies? Magic blood! Red Shirt eaten by cloud monster? Magic blood. Kirk vs. Gorn? Magic blood for both! Space amoeba? Reversed-polarity magic blood.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:10
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:Magic blood ruins all future drama in the series. Oh, is Uhura going to die of Space Rabies? Magic blood! Red Shirt eaten by cloud monster? Magic blood. Kirk vs. Gorn? Magic blood for both! Space amoeba? Reversed-polarity magic blood. Not if all of the magic blood comes from Khan. Make it a finite supply and it won't ruin anything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:11
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:19
|
|
|
Problem x? Fling yourself around a star and go back in time whenever you want.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
Yes, but then you have the time police on your case. Where are the blood police? At the blood donut shop?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:21
|
|
|
Blood Donuts? A Klingon delicacy!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:Where are the blood police? At the blood donut shop? Rear Admiral Bennett doesn't find your cop jokes so amusing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Now we are approaching levels of not having any dam clue about modern medicine levels of whining. Technically speaking at the very maximum you can be dead for a half an hour using modern day technology. I would imagine more so using space science. Hell after careful searching that is what stasis pods are designed to do. Given my earlier post, it's possible that was sarcasm.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
With the life giving blood thing I hope they just go the whole hog and make Khan a Jesus figure.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 03:06
|
|
|
Well, I now know what everyone is talking about and oh my god, gently caress that ending, oh my god, if that's true I'm so out. Look, I'm not against magic space blood. I'm against it when it's used to utterly remove any sort of consequence from the film. If you're really going to loving end your film with a role reversal of The Wrath of Khan, and remove any and all weight from it by using Magical Tribble Plot Device so that Bones can be all "oh my god! magical space blood!" and come in at the last minute, go "haha, gently caress you!" to the camera, bring back Kirk, and not even at least suggest that this might have dire consequences in the future to inject the blood of Kirk's worst enemy into him? Who the hell writes that? What I find more offensive is the fact that yes, they bring back Khan, and yes, it's Cumberbatch, after Pegg came out and said that wasn't true. What a stupid, stupid move. Especially when none of it's done in a clever, or interesting matter. It's the problem with nerd culture, making callbacks and references to the classics, done not in a clever or interesting way, but for the sake of reference or callback. Treading on the ground of Wrath of Khan, the apex of what Trek is all about, and having these really poorly done callbacks with this idiotic magical blood deus ex machina, is just utterly insulting. I'm going to pour a stiff drink and watch Wrath of Khan. I've really lost hope for this film being any good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 05:27
|
|
|
AlternateAccount posted:I would be a lot more okay with this. Easy to solve: Nano machines in the blood repair the damaged tissue and can bring you back to life as long as your brain isn't damaged too much. And since this is the fictional universe where Vulcans can store minds inside other people and people can upload themselves into computers even brain dead doesn't mean anything. Done, you have a "scientific" explanation instead of magical blood. It only can work and exist for a few hours outside the original host, just to remove it as future plot device. MadScientistWorking posted:Now we are approaching levels of not having any dam clue about modern medicine levels of whining. Technically speaking at the very maximum you can be dead for a half an hour using modern day technology. I would imagine more so using space science. Hell after careful searching that is what stasis pods are designed to do. Or just store his matrix in the transporter buffer for the next hundred years. Scotty's done it. Does it. Will do it. Whatever. I'm fine with the general outline of the spoiled story, if it is the true story as we still have only one guy posting it, or is there more people confirming it? The only thing that bugs me is bringing Khan in. It would have worked without "wasting" him on it and without making him a pasty white guy (even if Cumberbatch is a great actor to have in a movie). He could as easily have been a genetic engineered Section 31 agent, without connecting it at all to Khan and without angering fans because of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 06:20
|
|
|
Wait - Damon Lindelof wrote Star Trek 2, and that's the source of this rage? Suddenly I'm hard as hell. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 10:49
|
|
|
He co-wrote alongside Kurtzman and Orci, which is like the trifecta of nerd rage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 11:23
|
|
|
The only problem I have, from what I've heard is casting Khan as a super-white dude is just kind of pathetic. You've got all the freedom in the universe to do your own version and you do that. I don't even care about pissing off fans but seriously. I have an infinitely easier time believing in magic space blood than I do in Benedict Cumberbatch as a guy name Khan Noonien Singh ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Apr 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 11:42
|
|
|
Lindelof is a master of setting things up but not so good at resolving them Star Trek 2009 I feel is an exception in his ouevre.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 12:14
|
|
|
That's probably because Lindelof wasn't a writer for JJTrek09.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 12:40
|
|
|
Cellophane S posted:Lindelof is a master of setting things up but not so good at resolving them It's almost like he's exploring a lack of clear cut answers as a theme or something...
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 12:53
|
|
|
You guys are complaining about somebody being brought back from the dead in Star Trek? Next you will be complaining about the nacelle shape not being right to induce a stable Alcubierre metric. People are healed and brought back from the dead with space magic all the time. It is a Star Trek trope. Bones gives some random woman a space magic pill in STIV and she is cured: "Are these the dark ages!" No explanation is given, because it was a self referential joke. For the record I thought Threshold was fantastic. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 13:00
|
|
|
Collateral posted:People are healed and brought back from the dead with space magic all the time. It is a Star Trek trope. Bones gives some random woman a space magic pill in STIV and she is cured: "Are these the dark ages!" No explanation is given, because it was a self referential joke. Yeah, if a little pill can regrow a kidney, then I'm perfectly okay with blood from a human augment, the pinnacle of perfection or whatever the gently caress, reviving someone recently dead. For the record, if Kirk, say, died in the beginning of the movie and he's dead for multiple days or something before being revived with KhanBlood, I'd find that immersion breaking and not good. If he's dead for a few minutes and gets revived...well, we can do that right now in a hospital, so it happening on the Enterprise is a-ok in my book.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 13:04
|
|
|
A Doomed Purloiner posted:That's probably because Lindelof wasn't a writer for JJTrek09. My mistake then! I had assumed he was. A human heart posted:It's almost like he's exploring a lack of clear cut answers as a theme or something... You know what, I'll buy that. I'm not a Lindelof hater, I think he does entertaining stuff. The ending to LOST was nonsensical but it still gave me years of silly entertainment. Anyway "Into Darkness" - really looking forward to it now, having read the spoilers. Could have been a lot worse. Could have been Nemesis or Generations levels of awful but instead it sounds like a pretty decent episode!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 14:30
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:He co-wrote alongside Kurtzman and Orci, which is like the trifecta of nerd rage. Hey, wait a sec. You're Australian, why haven't you seen this yet and reported back?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 15:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
Has anyone been able to find more complete spoilers for the film? Google only turns up that angry idiot with the spoilers on Cumberbach's character, but what I want to know is under what circumstances does the Enterprise crash/when does it happen in the film?DrNutt posted:Hey, wait a sec. You're Australian, why haven't you seen this yet and reported back? Yeah! What he said!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2013 19:51
|
|
