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MadRhetoric posted:There's the very beginning of EoE (not the hospital scene) at the very end, with Asuka filling in for Misato. I kind of see what you mean, but Misato lies to Shinji, using his insecurities to force him into motion, while Asuka is doing exactly the opposite -- forcing him to stand up and face reality, the better to shed his (incredibly dangerous) insecurities. So more of a contrast than a parallel, unless I'm seriously misjudging where it's going with that scene.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:59
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cafel posted:The idea that anyone would see it as the preferred outcome is a little shocking to me. All it is is suicide, the end of your consiousness to escape from pain. It's sort of similar to the more misanthropic strains of environmentalism (i.e., "humanity is a cancer on the natural world and it would be better if we were gone") or utopianism that focuses on the ability of an all-powerful entity to completely control society. The focus on a particular concept as a goal subsumes the reason you had that goal in the first place.
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Apr 30, 2013 01:03
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too. Pretty much this. Watched the movie twice and I still don't have a goddamn clue what happened. And the technobabble, ugh.
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Apr 30, 2013 01:28
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Oh, another thing:MadRhetoric posted:Rei Q/Shiranami is straight up Rei III without the initial internal turmoil, as well as a starker reflection from the warmer Rei 2(.22). Rei Q herself has the existential confusion and despair of Rei III without a previous existence to draw from, which is arguably more terrifying. Instead of fear, she creates revulsion and obsession with the "proper" Rei, making a pretty blatant duality of Gendo and Shinji. Rei III in the series had Rei II's memories but not her will to become more human. (Quite the opposite, in fact.) What little development she did get as a character was all to do with her alienation and emotional distance from her former self. Conversely, although Rei Q obviously doesn't have the memories, 3.33 strongly suggests she still has the will to be human. Though she barely acts, she's curious about human concepts and her own history. Her act of defiance isn't biting off Gendo's hand and returning to Lilith, it's ejecting from her Evangelion prompted only by "do what YOU want" and following Asuka and Shinji into the desert. If I'm right, it's even worse than Gendo and Yui. The person he's looking for is right there, lost and amnesiac, having already entrusted herself to him in the form of the tape recorder. Shinji already ended the world to get her back, but instead of owning that decision he wants to run the deal backwards, because rebuilding (heh) is too hard. EDIT: On a related note, I'd say Fuyutsuki is being surprisingly honest with Shinji, even if it is only from a sense of guilt over his complicity in the whole affair. His lecture on the irreversibility of the world is exactly what Shinji needs to hear, which makes it that much weirder that he backs Gendo up at all. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 01:45
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Watched this last night and while I enjoyed it I certainly felt it wasn't as good as either of the other Rebuild films. I liked a lot of scenes and moving pieces but how it all came together felt jagged and rushed. I think they tried to fit too much in to too little time which weakened everything. I certainly would have liked to have had a lot more questions answered but I suppose that can be addressed in the final film. The artwork was beautiful and the action jaw dropping but like some other posts I felt the story was disappointing. This reminds me of how I felt after finishing Bioshock Infinite which I was impressed with but felt could have been so much more. A friend of mine linked me to this video discussing Neon Genesis, EoE and the whole Anno story which I found very interesting and informative: http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s3e2-end-of-evangelion-and-the-audience-author-membrane-6540094
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Apr 30, 2013 01:50
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Yeah we were discussing it earlier before 3.33 came out. I think that while he appropriately puts Eva in the context it deserves, I don't particularly agree with his conclusions that Shinji's actions are wholly negative in EoE nor do I believe they are completely divorced from the TV series' ending.
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Apr 30, 2013 02:04
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ImpAtom posted:I would not want an eternity when I am forever bonded to the dude who writes My Little Pony death-sex fanfiction at the cost of my own individuality. I think the idea is you wouldn't have to. Being connected with everyone and knowing everything everyone feels and thinks and knows, I don't think you'd have people doin' weird poo poo like that, well, actually in that case, why would they write fan fiction or write anything at all. Also, if anyone was writing mlp fanfics, it'd be you, since you're now everyone. Eva does single-human-conciousness differently than I would, though, and I'm no expert on their version of it.
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Apr 30, 2013 02:10
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. More 3.33 spoilers. That long crazy pan with the tower or whatever. The apocalypse sure is pretty.  Bonus because hey why not, which is what I assume they were thinking as they came up with this scene.
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Apr 30, 2013 03:37
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I kind of see what you mean, but Misato lies to Shinji, using his insecurities to force him into motion, while Asuka is doing exactly the opposite -- forcing him to stand up and face reality, the better to shed his (incredibly dangerous) insecurities. So more of a contrast than a parallel, unless I'm seriously misjudging where it's going with that scene. They're both literally dragging Shinji into action out of a sense of military duty and motherly affection. I'm talking the very end, when Asuka salvages him from the plug and Misato getting Shinji to the Eva in EoE Tuxedo Catfish posted:Oh, another thing: I'm looking at this more tonally, but I disagree that Rei III didn't want to be human anymore. We don't see her enough to get a good idea, but her sense of agency and her fear of oblivion (something Rei II didn't have) are all too human. Rei III didn't have all the work Rei II did to be more personable (since Ayanami was always human, just weird and spergy), just imprints she didn't understand. Rei Q's whole thing is "I don't understand" and all she gets are imprints of Rei as concept. They both gain agency through a split from Gendo and a personal decision; Rei III wants to go to Shinji, Rei Q wants to go with Shinji (and Asuka). Same idea, different presentation. Like Rebuild in general. I also don't bite on Rei being in the tape recorder. She's probably having her own belly of the beast moment in EVA-01 if she's anywhere at all. You do have it right that Shinji doesn't want to own up to Rei being right there since she's spergier than usual. And Fuyutsuki pretty much only goes along with Gendo due to holding a torch for Yui and feeling he's too old and steeped in sin to change. There's probably a bit of the old teacher's pride in there too. e: Oh god I need that Eyeless, smirking Rei!Lilith head surrounded by grasping Eva hands as an avatar yesterday. That was my favorite image in the movie; it's just so blatant and morbid. Yes, that's it! Reach for your dead, sneering moe idol! Die for her and rot like she does! MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 03:38
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tooooooo bad posted:More 3.33 spoilers. In the first image, if we assume that the tower thing is straight up and down, then we can attribute the bulging out it does near the middle to a point of view related optical illusion, and hopefully aid us in determining where the hell they are when they're looking at it. The second one is just incredibly horrifying in an absolutely hilarious kind of way. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 03:43
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too. Hello and welcome to Neon Genesis Evangelion! Complementary shaving cream and Tang are in the Green room.
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Apr 30, 2013 03:44
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MadRhetoric posted:I also don't bite on Rei being in the tape recorder. She's probably having her own belly of the beast moment in EVA-01 if she's anywhere at all. I don't think there's anything left in Unit-01. The 0% sync ratio, Gendo addressing his "Yui" comments to the Lilith corpse, and most of all the fact that Unit-01 has been completely absorbed by / relegated to the "explosions and cool CGI" side of the story by becoming the Wunder's engine -- they all fit pretty neatly with the idea that Unit-01 is just an empty tool now. Also, it would make Kaworu's smug, knowing "her soul is somewhere else" comment shortly after repairing the tape recorder so perfectly apropos. EDIT: Not to mention Gendo prioritizing retrieving Shinji over retrieving Unit-01. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 04:00
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I decided to watch the movie again tonight because now I'm lucid and because the girlfriend is coming over in two days and I'm sure she's gonna subject me to a Battlestar Galactica marathon to "get me out of this funk". Hopefully I'll gain some more insight into what is scratching our wild theories' itch so badly.
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Apr 30, 2013 04:07
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't think there's anything left in Unit-01. The 0% sync ratio, Gendo addressing his "Yui" comments to the Lilith corpse, and most of all the fact that Unit-01 has been completely absorbed by / relegated to the "explosions and cool CGI" side of the story by becoming the Wunder's engine -- they all fit pretty neatly with the idea that Unit-01 is just an empty tool now. Wasn't it mentioned by Fuyutsuki that the Rei Shinji rescued was now in the heart of Eva like Yui is? Or did I misread that scene?
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Apr 30, 2013 04:16
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Xelkelvos posted:Wasn't it mentioned by Fuyutsuki that the Rei Shinji rescued was now in the heart of Eva like Yui is? Or did I misread that scene? No, you're right, that's what he says. I mean maybe I'm full of it and it's just another Shinji / Gendo parallel; "he threw away all her belongings." But that's one hell of a red herring. I've theorized about Fuyutsuki being honest, but there's another possibility: that the whole conversation was meant to steer Shinji in a certain direction (empathizing with and emulating his father despite all the poo poo he's put him through) and when Fuyutsuki complains "Tis a wretched role I play" he's talking about the role he was just then playing. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 04:23
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SHISHKABOB posted:In the first image, if we assume that the tower thing is straight up and down, then we can attribute the bulging out it does near the middle to a point of view related optical illusion, and hopefully aid us in determining where the hell they are when they're looking at it. Almost certainly. I didn't get the impression that pan was from their viewpoint but uhhh who knows. You'd think that a second massive building would be visible in a shot at some point. Just having a real hard time reconciling the whole place. I guess this was obvious but it just now occurred to me that the pyramid and lake must be inside the tower. This distant shot gives you a good view of the entire crater. I guess the city just sank at some point? You can spot scenic mouth canyon on the left side. Again, this seems totally obvious now, but they must have been standing on the outside of the tower. Shinji's suit was probably just required due to their altitude. I had assumed that the air was toxic or something at first. Strange that the low-hanging moon never shows up in any other scene considering how much of the sky it obscures. If you watch that scene again you can see that it's actually moving across the sky at a pretty good clip. 
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Apr 30, 2013 04:43
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tooooooo bad posted:Almost certainly. I didn't get the impression that pan was from their viewpoint but uhhh who knows. You'd think that a second massive building would be visible in a shot at some point. Just having a real hard time reconciling the whole place. But then how does the perspective of that work? If he's inside an enclosed shaft on the tower, in essence, how is he looking out over the landscape? Nothing about this makes spatial sense 
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Apr 30, 2013 04:47
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DerLeo posted:But then how does the perspective of that work? If he's inside an enclosed shaft on the tower, in essence, how is he looking out over the landscape? Nothing about this makes spatial sense No, I meant that Shinji and Kaworu were standing on stairs ringing the outside of the tower, looking out over the landscape. That's why you can see the purple of the crater walls at the bottom of their view. Speaking of things that were probably obvious to everyone: duuuuuuuh. Top is from the flashback to the end of the second movie. edit: though I have no idea where all of the scenes at Nerv actually take place. They couldn't be inside the tower with the pyramid because you can see too much sky around them. I guess they're around the base of the tower? If that's the case then there's a lot of weird omission of massive things that should be taking up a lot of the background going on. see you tomorrow fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 04:54
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SHISHKABOB posted:The second one is just incredibly horrifying in an absolutely hilarious kind of way. The first thing I thought of was the Gorillaz...
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Apr 30, 2013 06:58
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tooooooo bad posted:That long crazy pan with the tower or whatever. The apocalypse sure is pretty. From my point of view it's just a playful representation of the link between the white and black moon. Evangelion reprises the scientific idea that the Moon is actually made of material that came from Earth when a huge asteroid hit it. So you see the triangular thing that looks like the moon, and is up there in the sky. In Eva this asteroid isn't natural, but artificial, so making it triangular simply enhances the impression it's a thing that was built. And then you see deep down into earth, where the actual core of the asteroid was embedded, and that contained the seed of the Angels. So the link represents the ideal one between Angels and human beings. Though it's likely that they mixed more than one idea on that image, and so this is only part of it.
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Apr 30, 2013 07:23
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The crazy apocalyptic imagery in Evangelion 3.33 is so good. From those failed crystal beings, the landscape detailed in the above posts, the crevasse of teeth, the huge decaying body of Lillith and the field of skulls, the ruined NERV base and the blasted geofront, the dessicated head that Gendo speaks to... It's all so amazing.
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Apr 30, 2013 07:25
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Just watched 3.33... I don't even know, man. I just don't even know. It felt both too sparse and too full, but I'm going to sit on it and probably rewatch it in a few days. Great soundtrack, though. And MadRhetoric: here's a hi-res pic of WHAT THE EVERLIVING gently caress for your avatar needs! 
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Apr 30, 2013 07:47
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Rewatching the end of 2.22, yeah a lot of this doesn't make sense at face value. You have to make numerous assumptions and mental gymnastics to make it work. Maybe the scene after the credits didn't actually happen, so it's not representative of what led into 3.33. After all the preview that immediately followed was bogus as well. Or the damage was dealt after the Third Impact, it was just wasn't animated that way and it's a retroactive plot hole that it looks different between the two films. Or that hellish red landscape simply took a while to appear that way and the actual destruction of the city and its inhabitants had happened instantly. 14 years is a lot of time, so I guess it's not inconceivable that Misato and company would eventually lose sight of the fact that many of them were encouraging Shinji. Psychologically it's convenient for them and their cause to have a scapegoat anyway. As for why Shinji is in space... I really have no clue. I guess SEELE/NERV stuck him up there once Wille rebelled, to keep Unit-01 away from them?
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Apr 30, 2013 13:41
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Nate RFB posted:Rewatching the end of 2.22, yeah a lot of this doesn't make sense at face value. You have to make numerous assumptions and mental gymnastics to make it work. Maybe the scene after the credits didn't actually happen, so it's not representative of what led into 3.33. After all the preview that immediately followed was bogus as well. Or the damage was dealt after the Third Impact, it was just wasn't animated that way and it's a retroactive plot hole that it looks different between the two films. Or that hellish red landscape simply took a while to appear that way and the actual destruction of the city and its inhabitants had happened instantly. They stuck him up there for the same reason they wouldn't use it in the final episodes of the series, because it had literally become a god.
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Apr 30, 2013 14:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Also, it would make Kaworu's smug, knowing "her soul is somewhere else" comment shortly after repairing the tape recorder so perfectly apropos.[/spoiler] You read that as smug? I'm not really seeing it, myself. Confident, perhaps, or self-assured, but there's nothing in the voicework or the writing itself that would lead me to smug. Kaworu's almost inhumanly humble about his superior insight ("Knowledge is all this is. It's only because I've been in this world a little longer than you have."), as part of his "transcendental enlightened wiseman" schtick, and I'm inclined to view this as at least partially genuine, even if he is manipulating Shinji in other ways. Tuxedo Catfish posted:I've theorized about Fuyutsuki being honest, but there's another possibility: that the whole conversation was meant to steer Shinji in a certain direction (empathizing with and emulating his father despite all the poo poo he's put him through) and when Fuyutsuki complains "Tis a wretched role I play" he's talking about the role he was just then playing. That was my naive, first-pass reading of the scene. Every part of the conversation seems to have been carefully designed to gently caress with Shinji's mind, from the immediate juxtaposition of, "You need to be calm to win this," with, "You have already lost," to Fuyutsuki's incredibly blase, "Hey, did you know your mum's a giant robot monster now?" to hosting the game in a room lined with severed Rei heads holy gently caress  .Speaking of that scene, I'm not sure what the second game is supposed to be, with the big heap of shogi pieces? Some sort of ad-hoc Jenga? I guess that would make for a pretty nice visual metaphor: "Let's see how many supports we can removed before (your mind) collapses. I think Fuyutsuki's motivations have to be the most obscure of anyone in the entire series at this point. I have less understanding of what's going on in his head than of the alien god monsters.
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Apr 30, 2013 14:38
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Autonomous Monster posted:Speaking of that scene, I'm not sure what the second game is supposed to be, with the big heap of shogi pieces? Some sort of ad-hoc Jenga? I guess that would make for a pretty nice visual metaphor: "Let's see how many supports we can removed before (your mind) collapses. It's pretty much this only with Shogi pieces and I suppose without points assigned to the Shogi pieces. e: so basically Jenga with shogi pieces now that I rethink it. Or maybe a weirdish mix of Jenga and Mikado.
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Apr 30, 2013 15:45
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:No, you're right, that's what he says. Probably a little of column A, a little of column B. Good catch.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:22
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The bizarre landscape aside, I think it should be said that this is not a particularly confusing movie. If anything it's the simplest Evangelion animated story I've seen. There are explanations for most things, even if most of them are shallow or rather dumb or a big meta joke, and everything else is drowning in big action set pieces with technobabble I'm quite confident we are not supposed to treat seriously at all. If there is any confusion in this movie, it's not "why did X happen?" but rather "Anno, why did you want X to happen?". It's pretty clear to me that, unless the preview at the end was truly supposed to be a big joke all along, that someone somewhere put together a brand new script rather hastily and the only requirement was that it include episode 24's events somewhere.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:33
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Autonomous Monster posted:You read that as smug? I'm not really seeing it, myself. Confident, perhaps, or self-assured, but there's nothing in the voicework or the writing itself that would lead me to smug. Kaworu's almost inhumanly humble about his superior insight ("Knowledge is all this is. It's only because I've been in this world a little longer than you have."), as part of his "transcendental enlightened wiseman" schtick, and I'm inclined to view this as at least partially genuine, even if he is manipulating Shinji in other ways. Yeah, "smug" probably isn't supported by the VA's delivery at all, I just find Kaworu's motives incredibly suspect in all his appearances. He's an avatar of sublime wisdom and love whose circumstances make it completely impossible to avoid some mixture of ignorance and betrayal.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:47
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Everything makes perfect sense and it is easy to infer what is actually going on just from intuitive understanding of narrative. The problem is that it is engineered to leave you confused and unfulfilled, exactly like Shinji experienced these events. Even the action scenes were crammed with too much happening at once! I like Anno's bullshit ways and all but after waiting for years, we end up with something that isn't all that enjoyable.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:53
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The only qualm I have about Rei Q being a memory wiped Rei II is that Kaworu said she couldn't pilot the eva because she had no soul. I guess it could be bullshit on his part and Rei's soul just doesn't work for what they were trying to do. Still I prefer the theory that Rei's soul was clogging up the tape recorder so Kaworu took it out and put it in Penpen. Hope you guys are ready for Giant Featherless Penpen in 4.0.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:56
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Wark Say posted:I decided to watch the movie again tonight because now I'm lucid and because the girlfriend is coming over in two days and I'm sure she's gonna subject me to a Battlestar Galactica marathon to "get me out of this funk". Hopefully I'll gain some more insight into what is scratching our wild theories' itch so badly. Why would you watch BSG in order to get happy. Try like Gravity Falls or something.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:57
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Fingers of Fury posted:The only qualm I have about Rei Q being a memory wiped Rei II is that Kaworu said she couldn't pilot the eva because she had no soul. I guess it could be bullshit on his part and Rei's soul just doesn't work for what they were trying to do. Still I prefer the theory that Rei's soul was clogging up the tape recorder so Kaworu took it out and put it in Penpen. Hope you guys are ready for Giant Featherless Penpen in 4.0. I'd imagine that a soul would be clearly needed for a unique unit like 13. While series has demonstrated that souls aren't completely necessary to pilot Evas, what with the dummy-plugs and MP EVAs and all, the units seem to behave much more beast-like without a soul.
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Apr 30, 2013 20:02
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I watched it yesterday and I'm honestly pretty confused about a lot of things. But then I haven't watched the original series in what must be over 10 years and I barely even remember what happened in 2.0. So many questions, in no real order! Sorry if it's all over the place but I'm writing them out as they come to mind. Huge block of black incoming!
This is not really a question and more me not understanding what's going on for like 30 seconds but when Rei and Shinji went down the escalator and looked around, I absolutely did not recognize that planet as the moon. I saw the blood splatters on it but it was kind of hard to see a lot of the surface AND it had clouds around it! For a while I was like "uhh are they seeing Earth from Earth or something? Is that another planet that was formed during Third Impact that now has all the "ascended" people on it or something?" but eventually it clicked and I facepalmed IRL. As you can see I am either incredibly thick, incredibly not anime-compatible anymore or I have to get really, really, really high to watch and understand all this. I almost feel like marathoning all three movies on my day off tomorrow and maybe get some more insight into what the hell is actually going on 
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Apr 30, 2013 20:09
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abraxas posted:I watched it yesterday and I'm honestly pretty confused about a lot of things. But then I haven't watched the original series in what must be over 10 years and I barely even remember what happened in 2.0. So many questions, in no real order! Sorry if it's all over the place but I'm writing them out as they come to mind. Huge block of black incoming!
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Apr 30, 2013 20:32
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Dr. Killjoy posted:I'd imagine that a soul would be clearly needed for a unique unit like 13. While series has demonstrated that souls aren't completely necessary to pilot Evas, what with the dummy-plugs and MP EVAs and all, the units seem to behave much more beast-like without a soul. Which is why I don't think they're the same because Rei II & III obviously have souls.
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Apr 30, 2013 20:58
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Nate RFB posted:It's pretty clear to me that, unless the preview at the end was truly supposed to be a big joke all along, that someone somewhere put together a brand new script rather hastily and the only requirement was that it include episode 24's events somewhere. There are interviews hinting at things in Eva 3.0 which make sense after the fact from before Rebuild 1.0 and 2.0 came out. It was pretty likely intended and the preview is just supposed to be Things that happened between the two movies. That or an elaborate joke.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:04
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abraxas posted:Why did people turn into EVAs when the Third Impact happened? I thought they'd turn into LCL or some random goo of one mind but they apparently turned into EVAs? I assume everyone turning into EVAs also explains the huge amount of suspiciously big and not-human looking skulls all around kind-of Lilith dead body? Also it was only the people who failed to do.. something? that turned into EVAs? I got really, really confused about this part. Not all versions of Instrumentality are the same. In EoE Third Impact was orchestrated by SEELE, interfered with by Yui, and Shinji wished for everyone to die. In 2.22 it was the result of Gendo covertly pushing Shinji towards Rei, and the actual Third Impact happens when he wishes to save her no matter what happens to the world or himself. It's pointless to ask about the exact mechanics because nobody in the audience knows and that confusion is part of the point. I'm half-jokingly inclined to say it represents all the failed Eva-clones anime has produced in the last decade, or more seriously that it's just more ambiguous time loop, "all of this has happened before" imagery. abraxas posted:What was up with Asukas beast mode? All glowy eyed and fangs and her EVA goes nuts and starts biting heads off and poo poo. What the hell was that all about? We've seen Evas go berserk dozens of times by now, and Mari in 1.11 proves that a sufficiently skilled or prepared pilot can control it. Nothing new here. abraxas posted:Is there anything we know about the "Curse of EVA" beyond "it apparently makes the pilots stop aging"? Nope. abraxas posted:What's up with that huge rear end tower and the vertical tunnel connecting directly down to almost-Lilith and all the skulls and stuff? And why was the tunnel ALSO made out of weirdly semi-gooeyfied EVAs? Pretty much the same answer as the first question, plus if you want to get into  extra-canonical stuff, NERV HQ was built over the Black Moon, where Lilith crashed to Earth. So it's just all the weird Angelic poo poo that was previously hidden becoming exposed due to how badly NERV HQ was destroyed, plus whatever weird stuff Third Impact piled on top of what was already there.abraxas posted:Why did Misato and the other dudes start WILLE again? They're fighting NERV and their EVAs, I got that. But is it because they're suddenly not fans of the Instrumentality project anymore? They knew the HIP was the NERV plan ever since the first movie right? Most of the general personnel of NERV have no idea what's going on beyond "we're here to stop the Angels." Misato was slowly figuring it out with help from Kaji. Ritsuko probably knows more since she understands the mechanics of Evangelions pretty well, but she presumably kept quiet out of loyalty to Gendo. It's been fourteen years since all of that, so the most likely scenario is that Misato figured out exactly what's going on, Ritsuko turned her back on Gendo for unknown reasons, and who the hell knows where Kaji is or why he does anything. abraxas posted:Why did Asuka call her crew Lilim at the end? Lilim is just "the humans" basically, right? As opposed to the angels, if I remember all that stuff right. No idea, but my first two guesses would be "it's just technical jargon" and "maybe she no longer regards herself as fully human due to the Curse." A couple guys upthread think maybe she's a clone, or maybe it's some other wacky thing with as-yet insufficient evidence. As I see it, not really relevant, since she's still pretty obviously the same character. abraxas posted:Someone needs to explain SEELE to me. I always thought those stone slabs for a lack of a better word were like, flying monitors basically. It says "Sound Only" on them for christs sake! I always figured SEELE were a bunch of old dudes sitting in a conference room somewhere having a phone conference with Gendo whenever poo poo went down. Apparently I was wrong? Also if that's how they "live", why is their power supply right next to them where Gendo and basically everyone has easy access to it? They always seemed kind of bossy and maybe a bit standoffish with Gendo to me, why wasn't he just like "OK dudes all your talk about the Scrolls and stuff was cool but I've had enough of your BS. I'm getting my wife back, see ya!" and pulled their plugs? Like most of these questions there's no really good answer, but there is a kind of intuitive progression at work here. In the original series, SEELE start out as a bunch of clueless old dudes who are just terrified of death. They call Unit-01 "that toy," have no idea why Shinji is significant, and bicker among themselves. As the series progresses they get weirder and better-informed in about equal measure, and eventually stop appearing as human figures. By the end they're basically a death cult, willing to wipe out all of humanity just so they can get tanged and continue to "live" as LCL soup. In EoE you briefly get to see them again right as Instrumentality hits and Keel Lorenz (SEELE #1) is a) happy with how things are turning out and b) leaves behind a spinal implant very similar in structure to an Eva. Anyways, the important takeaway here: SEELE wants humanity to commit suicide because ~reasons~ which may be selfish or may be religious or (as I suspect) the one morphed into the other the deeper into it they got. They're assholes. Rebuild adds an even heavier dose of mysticism to how they talk about it, and in 3.33 they come right out and say "All we've ever wished for is the peaceful purification of all souls." So whatever their motivations or reasoning, they don't care if Gendo kills them because they're confident Instrumentality will happen no matter what he does. abraxas posted:Why is it sometimes the Near-Third Impact and sometimes the Third Impact? And if it was the Near-Third Impact why, at the end, is it the Fourth Impact? Goddamnit Evangelion. Well, it didn't tang or Evangelionify EVERYBODY, so Near Third Impact is good enough. Fourth Impact is Fourth Impact because otherwise it would be confusing in a dumb way instead of an intriguing way. abraxas posted:If I understood all this right at the end of the movie, it ALL perfectly worked how Gendo had it planned from the beginning? He planned the Third Impact and the spearing of 01 by Kaworu and then 14 years of Shinji sleeping and Misato defecting and creating WILLE and then a huge eyeless Rei head exploding blood all over him and THEN Fourth Impact not happening despite almost happening kind of like the Third one. Not "perfectly;" just good enough. Gendo has looked at the script and is playing eleven-dimensional chess with foreknowledge of the future, just like SEELE. Unlike SEELE, he thinks he can interfere with it and make it turn out how he wants. Historically speaking, this has not gone very well for him. abraxas posted:What are the Gates of Guf and what did we see through them? I felt like it was really deliberately framed when they closed at the end because they lingered on them being open for so long and then bwoop they closed. All I saw was a lot of black and a white glowy thing in the middle, but then again this might be some spiritual reference again that I have no idea about. It's religious technobabble. In the context of Evangelion, it's (as best as we can tell from a very small number of references) a void from which either souls come, or which draws souls in. Basically a giant spiritual vacuum cleaner that powers Instrumentality. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 21:05
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My biggest disappointment with the movie was no Kaji. Though the way they mentioned him, and the fact that they only mentioned him once and sort of in passing, makes me feel like he's been toast for a while.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:06
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SHISHKABOB posted:My biggest disappointment with the movie was no Kaji. Though the way they mentioned him, and the fact that they only mentioned him once and sort of in passing, makes me feel like he's been toast for a while. Well, even if Third Impact hadn't happened, it was pretty likely Kaji was dead no matter what based on what happened in the series and the strong implication (especially in the manga) that it was Gendo who killed him.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:15
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