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2.22 set Mari up as having her own agenda that's different from what NERV/SEELE are trying to accomplish, but 3.33 appears to have thrown away whatever character arc was planned for her and now she's just relegated to being fanservice or whatever. It's a shame I think, since I felt like they were setting her up for something really interesting with 2.22 given her dialogue, but I can only guess that it was all scrapped during the rewrite of 3.33 that ended up happening.
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Jun 2, 2013 04:36
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| # ? May 25, 2024 18:40 |
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MUFFlNS posted:2.22 set Mari up as having her own agenda that's different from what NERV/SEELE are trying to accomplish, but 3.33 appears to have thrown away whatever character arc was planned for her and now she's just relegated to being fanservice or whatever. It's a shame I think, since I felt like they were setting her up for something really interesting with 2.22 given her dialogue, but I can only guess that it was all scrapped during the rewrite of 3.33 that ended up happening. I don't think we can safely say that it's been "thrown away". We mostly see Mari in a position where's she's sitting around, yeah? Biding her time, waiting for a good shot.
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Jun 2, 2013 04:43
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Maybe the group she may or may not have been working for met their end during the third impact from 2.22
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Jun 2, 2013 04:46
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MUFFlNS posted:2.22 set Mari up as having her own agenda that's different from what NERV/SEELE are trying to accomplish, but 3.33 appears to have thrown away whatever character arc was planned for her and now she's just relegated to being fanservice or whatever. It's a shame I think, since I felt like they were setting her up for something really interesting with 2.22 given her dialogue, but I can only guess that it was all scrapped during the rewrite of 3.33 that ended up happening. There are a lot of things that Mari seems to inexplicably know about in 3, so I wouldn't really count her out just yet. I will say though, from her character so far I don't like her at all either. Depending on what they do in Final they can make Mari a kind of okay but still dumb character, or just dumb altogether.
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Jun 2, 2013 05:08
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The Grimace posted:Holy poo poo, this is the best thing. I'm totally going to have to make an icon. Do not buy a SmugMari emoticon please.
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Jun 2, 2013 05:10
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There's some evidence that Mari might be working for Gendo considering she knew about the external release switches on unit 13 when she had no reason to, the fact Kaji was there in the opening scene of 2.2 watching over her, and the fact that photograph and her comments to Rei suggest she knew Yui.
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Jun 2, 2013 05:16
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If Kawrou is descendant of Adam as an Angel, can Mari be related to Lilith? Like she's something other than human?
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Jun 2, 2013 05:39
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Uh I thought all humans were descended from Lilith, that's why it's got a bunch of half formed people sticking out of it's torso (way to mangle Genesis guys, good lord).
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Jun 2, 2013 05:41
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Mari Magdalene 
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Jun 2, 2013 05:42
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notZaar posted:Uh I thought all humans were descended from Lilith, that's why it's got a bunch of half formed people sticking out of it's torso (way to mangle Genesis guys, good lord). Duh, *slaps forehead* Maybe I should change my train of thought and think like she's something like Eve or the wildcard, I dunno. I do think they'll address her in 4.0 though even in 2.22 she kind of felt out of place.
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Jun 2, 2013 05:44
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Captain Invictus posted:Do not buy a SmugMari emoticon please. I'm not going to buy it, but that doesn't mean I wasn't bored. I can't justify buying something worthless for the forums, unlike some people. 
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Jun 2, 2013 05:48
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Somehow, I don't know why, this makes me think Gendo. Maybe because he's, like, the only other character with glasses. \ Plus the comment that she looks like Shinji. Comedy option: She's a clone of Gendo.
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Jun 2, 2013 05:51
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Just to stir poo poo up some more, remember that when Mari opened communications with NERV HQ, it was voice-only. The Children and the rest of the NERV crew have met her since, but as far as we know, Gendo and Fuyutsuki have never seen her face. 
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Jun 2, 2013 05:56
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Gatts posted:Duh, *slaps forehead* Maybe I should change my train of thought and think like she's something like Eve or the wildcard, I dunno. I do think they'll address her in 4.0 though even in 2.22 she kind of felt out of place. Eve? The woman that was formed from Adam? (And also happens to be the title of the show).
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Jun 2, 2013 05:58
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notZaar posted:Eve? The woman that was formed from Adam? (And also happens to be the title of the show). Ah nevermind. I'll be quiet now.
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Jun 2, 2013 06:03
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KNITS MY FEEDS posted:Wow, I never realized that she looked like a female Shinji. Safe and Secure! posted:Haha, yeah, I thought so, too. I was going to say, maybe she really is a clone... Of Shinji. I'll laugh if this is actually the case. Regalingualius posted:Hell, that (in my mind) isn't the worst of it. During the scene with him in the hand of Unit-01 in the original series, he seems honestly apologetic that Shinji has to be the one to kill him; in the manga, he wants Shinji to kill him to serve as a final 'screw you' to SEELE, and has very little/no empathy towards the obvious trauma it'd be causing Shinji.
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Jun 2, 2013 06:20
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Safe and Secure! posted:Haha, yeah, I thought so, too. I was going to say, maybe she really is a clone... Of Shinji. She's the son Gendo wished he had.
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Jun 2, 2013 07:35
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I'm going to be mad if we end up being right and Mari is some Shinji clone or alternate timeline Shinji.
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Jun 2, 2013 08:22
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Huh. So the Evangelion manga (y'know, the one that's been running for 18 years) finally ended. Shinji takes control of Third Impact and resets the world. Everyone is now living happily in regular Tokyo. Shinji is there trying to get into a high school. He runs into Asuka and has a Cute Moment and Keisuke and has a friendship moment. The last lines are Shinji talking to himself: "Yeah, I'll try my best. It's up to me to find the path I want to take. The way forward might not be straight, it might twist and turn. It might rain, and the wind might blow. But the sun will still shine on the road ahead. My future unfolds forever ahead of me." The End. Happy Ending.
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Jun 2, 2013 08:52
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(In response to manga spoilers.) Man I'm rooting for a happy ending in Rebuild but I cannot even imagine those words coming out of Shinji's mouth. Maybe it's less ridiculous in context but that reads like a parody.
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Jun 2, 2013 09:06
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ImpAtom posted:Huh. So the Evangelion manga (y'know, the one that's been running for 18 years) finally ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIJKM0sjdo That sounds soooooo dumb. Holy crap. Wrap it up with a nice fuckin' neat little bowtie on it. Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jun 2, 2013 |
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Jun 2, 2013 09:14
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Well, he is the character designer, not the director of the series. Maybe this is how he felt the the original series should have ended? It sort of does feel like a cop out but that's just because it so "safe" compared to you know, EoE. I guess we can add this to the list of alternate universes now.
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Jun 2, 2013 10:32
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I know, but it's hiiiiilarious that the 18 year buildup is just zip-a-dee-doo-dah happy optimistic ending with, if that quote is accurate, perhaps the most trite, out of character comment possible.
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Jun 2, 2013 10:48
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I don't even mean the premise itself, I just mean that I try to picture Shinji using flowery language like that and repeating his idea in other words to make sure you understand him and I start cracking up. It's the total opposite of Anno's very sparse and economic dialogue.
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Jun 2, 2013 10:48
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Megafunk posted:Well, he is the character designer, not the director of the series. Maybe this is how he felt the the original series should have ended? It sort of does feel like a cop out but that's just because it so "safe" compared to you know, EoE. I guess we can add this to the list of alternate universes now. Well making it safe and happy is ironic considering he made a bunch of other arguably more darker choices than the anime like Kaji's backstory, killing Toji off, having Kaworu kill a kitten, and giving Gendo an AT field while having Misato suicide via Grenade. And keep in mind the 18 years involved cutting DOWN the number of Angels by like 4 or 5.
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Jun 2, 2013 11:01
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 I thought that scene in episode 26 was meant to be ironic?I finally watched Rebuild 1 last night. Given how different 2 and 3 were, it seemed to be an unjustified and sometimes inferior retread. Most of the time all that seemed worth watching was the differences to the original. The Ramiel part was the best and most different, especially the Lilith scene. I was surprised to see the toothpick holder scene (because it was in 2 too) and there definitely seemed to be an emphasis on dehumanising the Evas: Unit-01 didn't shelter Shinji from the falling debris, and someone mentioned that they don't have AT-fields without the pilot (implying they're soulless), and Leliel wasn't in 2. Although what that means for Yui is anybody's guess. During the scene where Shinji meets Unit-01 and Misato tells him he mustn't run away, the film and dialogue seemed to be moving far too quickly - people were just barking at each other without much empathy. I thought there was an error in the disc at first.
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Jun 2, 2013 11:59
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Well, huh. I'm impressed. I'm going to have to break out the volumes of the manga I own and have a little reread over the next few days. I'm honestly relieved at a happy ending from one of the creators, finally. Besides that, it definitely is a spirit booster after everything else in the manga. Kaworu killed a kitten! This upset me more than End of Evangelion. Also, yeah, it's funny because I started with volumes 2 and 3 of the manga before I ran through the series. Still amazing that it took this long to finish the manga.
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Jun 2, 2013 14:24
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The Grimace posted:Kaworu killed a kitten! This upset me more than End of Evangelion. That's very distressing. a kitten fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jun 2, 2013 |
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Jun 2, 2013 20:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:(In response to manga spoilers.) Man I'm rooting for a happy ending in Rebuild but I cannot even imagine those words coming out of Shinji's mouth. Maybe it's less ridiculous in context but that reads like a parody. You gotta remember that in the manga Shinji is a bit more assertive and confident than his anime-counterpart. I mean he beats the poo poo out of the entire EVA-series and tells Asuka that he saved her because he made a promise to Misato.
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Jun 2, 2013 20:30
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Just read the last chapter. Hah! I've seen better and more realistic storytelling for a "Happy ending" from more terrible alternative Eva stories.
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Jun 3, 2013 03:38
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House Louse posted:...Unit-01 didn't shelter Shinji from the falling debris, and someone mentioned that they don't have AT-fields without the pilot (implying they're soulless)... Tae posted:Just read the last chapter. Hah! I've seen better and more realistic storytelling for a "Happy ending" from more terrible alternative Eva stories. 
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Jun 3, 2013 06:19
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ImpAtom posted:Huh. So the Evangelion manga (y'know, the one that's been running for 18 years) finally ended. Did you read a translation or did you get a raw? I have had no luck finding a translated version of the final chapter anywhere.
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Jun 3, 2013 06:49
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ImpAtom posted:Huh. So the Evangelion manga (y'know, the one that's been running for 18 years) finally ended. Wow this "Evangelion" sounds like a big ol RahXephon ripoff
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Jun 3, 2013 09:06
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Rahxephon anime, or Rahxephon manga? Because iirc the manga was reaaaaaaally hosed up. I've got it somewhere, I think that girl is fated to die, no matter what, on her sixteenth birthday and reincarnate forever, always somehow dying on her sixteenth birthday, and the main character rewrites things so they don't exist. Or are both dead but together forever. Or something like that. I think they wind up as a pair of songbirds. It sounds pretty dumb, and the majority of the manga was rather hosed, but it wasn't as bad as my sparse memories make it sound. The anime was wayyyyy more happy go lucky in the long run. Except for episode 19. gently caress.
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Jun 3, 2013 09:19
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Well, that did not feel like a total cop out at all, I guess it is consistent with the characterization so far but it certainly lacked depth. About the most interesting thing there is the fact that Rei is most likely gone forever and that they failed to meet again. And to think I've been reading this since before 2000. Oh well, at least another chunk of this franchise is over. 
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Jun 3, 2013 13:17
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Cardboard Box A posted:IIRC the Evas cannot manifest AT fields without pilots in the series either. They don't eject Shinji when Ramiel first blasts him because they believe that would shut down the AT field and vaporize him instantly. I don't know either, although they can while berserk. The point is how they're having their personalities and humanity removed, obviously in 3.33 Unit-01 becomes a power supply. Which is interesting partly because the Evas are the most prominent powerful and effective female characters in the series, albeit still flawed, and in Rebuild, they're neither female nor characters. Elsewhere in Rebuild the new female character is at best a cipher and in 3.33 Rei is written out and Kaworu given a much expanded role, really cementing Rebuild's emphasis on the Shinji/Gendo axis of conflict rather than Shinji/Angels, Shinji/Eva, (and Shinji/himself is much reduced too). I suppose the obvious reading is Rebuild Shinji as present Anno and Rebuild Gendo as 1990s Anno, but the writing-out of so many women rankles.
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Jun 3, 2013 13:31
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I wouldn't count Rei out just yet. Also 3.33 features Misato in a more prominent and plot-driving role than in the equivalent episodes in the series and Asuka has her full faculties instead of being a suicidal wreck. The only character who seems totally absent is Yui and her story was complete after EoE, in my opinion.
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Jun 3, 2013 13:46
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I found this in this thread from last year and thought it summed up 3.33 pretty well.
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Jun 3, 2013 14:39
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I wouldn't count Rei out just yet. True, although Rei in 3 was written out of the film within a timeskip, and then replaced with another Reiclone who was even worse off than she was in the first film. I'm not counting her out - presumably 4 will redo EoE - but she definitely got the short straw. And Ritsuko's only appearance was a couple of scenes as Misato's right hand. quote:The only character who seems totally absent is Yui and her story was complete after EoE, in my opinion. I'm not sure what you mean by implying that the other characters' stories weren't complete. Could you expand on that?
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Jun 3, 2013 21:01
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The manga ending really is terrible. It just sorta ends in an anti-climatic cop out with so many questions unanswered, and with a sequence that seems fundamentally discontented from the message of the rest of the series. It straight up goes from: "Don't run away when you come across problems and hardships in life, because they aren't going to magically disappear." to the complete opposite: "Better living through free amnesia! It's like your problems and the dead people never existed in the first place!" It feels like Shinji's last monologue is really just there to kinda, sorta make a token effort to tie the first message into the ending, but it doesn't seem to be supported by anything in the sequence.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:36
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