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Smoking Crow posted:Wait, that means that Shinji groped his mom. Yeah the whole Oedipal complex is kind of a big factor in Shinji's character. Misato helps along the way too.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:22
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Smoking Crow posted:Wait, how does that work? Rei doesn't have a mom. Unless the EVA is her mom No one knows what the deal is with rei and unit 0. I believe the predominant theories are "an extra clone" or Ritsuko's mom.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:34
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The most substantial theory I have heard is that Unit-00 contains a fragment of Rei/Lilith's soul.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:41
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Smoking Crow posted:Wait, that means that Shinji groped his mom. That's not even close to how hosed up the sequence where he's trapped inside Unit 01 after killing Zeruel in the manga. 
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Jun 24, 2013 22:56
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Whenever Unit 00 tried to "talk" to Rei, it's usually a really large eyed, younger version of Rei, kinda like the one that Ritsuko's mom strangled to death. So there's like, some fragment of Rei's original or something in there.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:27
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Yeah, and at one point during Ep 23 she says something about "the me inside the Eva." Also supposedly the reason Unit 00 went berserk wasn't because it was attacking Gendo, but because it though Ritsuko was Naoko and was attacking its murderer. Have some Evageeks
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Jun 24, 2013 23:53
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Attacking Gendo makes sense too. If I found out that I was a freaky homunculus made out of some dude's dead wife, I'd be pretty cheesed.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:00
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I don't think that it necessarily has to be the mothers, but just someone compatible with them. In episode 15 Shinji and Rei test each other's Evangelions. Unit 01 is fine with Rei, but 00 goes berserk when Shinji tries to use it. Then again, it might just be because Rei has angel powers.
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Jun 25, 2013 01:16
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This question is answered in the very first episode. "There's reasons, and no, we aren't going to tell you. gently caress you. Get in the robot."
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Jun 25, 2013 04:57
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I thought that was just Gendo being awesome, like he is in every episode.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:05
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A Pinball Wizard posted:Yeah, and at one point during Ep 23 she says something about "the me inside the Eva." Also supposedly the reason Unit 00 went berserk wasn't because it was attacking Gendo, but because it though Ritsuko was Naoko and was attacking its murderer. Have some Evageeks That is super interesting. Wow, I never even thought about it that way. The only one I knew about was Naoko's soul attacking Gendo for the old hag comments.
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Jun 25, 2013 12:38
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Watched all of the reboots on a train drunk as hell last week. All I have to say is everything changed, except for Shinji being the worst. I thought the 3rd one was gonna have a kick in the balls ending, but it didn't and for that I am sad.
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Jun 25, 2013 17:58
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I watched the three Rebuild movies in one go with some friends. We made a drinking game out of "Rei staring blankly into space" and "Gendo pose". I vetoed "Shinji fails". Needless to say, the 3rd one was confusing as hell for me. I spent the entirety of the movie somewhere between  and  ... Also, the constant red background was kinda hard to look at. And the finale was basically a frantic mess of spaceship tentacles, a 12th angel out of nowhere, giant Rei/Lilith (?) head and RED. Maybe it'll make more sense next time... But I kinda doubt it. I still don't know what the hell attacked the magic spacewhale ship, even after looking it up. Apparently, it's an EVA of some sort...? Hm.Also, I missed Kaji. Don't you dare die inbetween movies! EDIT: Eeeeeh, spoilering that. Torquemadras fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 19:59
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Torquemadras posted:Maybe it'll make more sense next time... I've watched it three times so far and the last 30 minutes still don't make sense. The best thing about 3.0 to me is the music and overall audio atmosphere.
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Jun 25, 2013 20:07
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Torquemadras posted:I watched the three Rebuild movies in one go with some friends. We made a drinking game out of "Rei staring blankly into space" and "Gendo pose". I vetoed "Shinji fails". Given that Shinji (maybe? The actual sequence of events is quite muddled, and it seems a lot of things happened after Kaworu got Shinji with the spear) caused a near third impact, you'd have to take one HELL of a drink if Shinji fails was in the rules. You'd be completely smashed as soon as you finished the second movie.
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Jun 25, 2013 21:00
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Slime posted:Given that Shinji (maybe? The actual sequence of events is quite muddled, and it seems a lot of things happened after Kaworu got Shinji with the spear) caused a near third impact, you'd have to take one HELL of a drink if Shinji fails was in the rules. You'd be completely smashed as soon as you finished the second movie. Good thing I vetoed that. Didn't stop Rei from staring into nothing all the loving time, though. And at some point, we started arguing that Gendo probably doesn't leave the Gendo pose offscreen, so technically, when we see him next time in a Gendo pose immediately, it's the same pose and we don't have to drink 
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Jun 25, 2013 21:32
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...Does Gendo actually do the pose in 3.0? I only remember him standing in high places looking down at Shinji or up at Seele.
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Jun 25, 2013 21:35
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Spiritus Nox posted:...Does Gendo actually do the pose in 3.0? I only remember him standing in high places looking down at Shinji or up at Seele. Should have just been 'Gendo onscreen'
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Jun 26, 2013 00:48
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Gaseous Snake posted:Oh, the preview's already out. I never caught the 1 second shot of HOSRE SELEE. loving perfect.
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Jun 26, 2013 10:05
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These rebuild movies feel kind of like schlock that exist solely as a cash-in, this feels almost like parody. 3.3 Actually feels like straight up fanfiction. The setting and everything is so over the top and the narrative doesn't make sense outside of a remix/rehash of eva. This is like the anime equivalent of the star wars prequels, its just a bunch of visual cues to throw a bone to fans, and ridiculous roller coaster visuals to make up for lack of writing. This feels like a ridiculous spectacle devoid of substance. Is Anno trying to destroy Eva like some kind of anime Nietzsche?
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Jun 27, 2013 18:50
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Would it be so surprising if he was?
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Jun 27, 2013 18:58
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DerLeo posted:Would it be so surprising if he was? Nope. It feels like he just doesn't care outside of making a spectacle.
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Jun 27, 2013 19:06
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Zewle posted:Is Anno trying to destroy Eva like some kind of anime Nietzsche? No, that was the purpose of the first Evangelion. 
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Jun 27, 2013 19:39
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Zewle posted:These rebuild movies feel kind of like schlock that exist solely as a cash-in, this feels almost like parody. 3.3 Actually feels like straight up fanfiction. The setting and everything is so over the top and the narrative doesn't make sense outside of a remix/rehash of eva. This is like the anime equivalent of the star wars prequels, its just a bunch of visual cues to throw a bone to fans, and ridiculous roller coaster visuals to make up for lack of writing. This feels like a ridiculous spectacle devoid of substance. What kind of cash-in costs tens of millions to produce? Ok, maybe it is a cash in. But it's a drat gorgeous and fantastically directed one. As for fanfiction... there is evidence to suggest that Rebuild is in fact a continuation, rather than just a "rebuild", of the series. There isn't definitive proof yet, but that's why we're all waiting for 4.0. Anno is going somewhere this time around by the looks of it (as opposed to making the world's most expensive middle finger), so it's absolutely worth the watch. As far as the writing goes, the story itself is very simple. The real charm of Eva is mystery of the world around this story. The story itself revolves around Shinji, but the world around him is far more interesting.
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Jun 27, 2013 19:57
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Zewle posted:These rebuild movies feel kind of like schlock that exist solely as a cash-in, this feels almost like parody. 3.3 Actually feels like straight up fanfiction. The setting and everything is so over the top and the narrative doesn't make sense outside of a remix/rehash of eva. This is like the anime equivalent of the star wars prequels, its just a bunch of visual cues to throw a bone to fans, and ridiculous roller coaster visuals to make up for lack of writing. This feels like a ridiculous spectacle devoid of substance. Anno has already destroyed anime, and Haruhi Suzumiya inherited the earth. Do you really want him to do it again? I think you you read this thread's 3 discussion, especially TuxedoCatfish and Riddle of Feel's posts - people have said some really interesting, insightful, and provocative things. Sometimes it is a ridiculous spectacle, but it's hardly devoid of content.
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Jun 27, 2013 21:27
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The first rebuild movie is going to be screened at a local theater here next month. I'm thinking of going since it would be cool to watch it in an actual theater and not on my TV.
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Jun 27, 2013 22:24
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Zewle posted:These rebuild movies feel kind of like schlock that exist solely as a cash-in, this feels almost like parody. 3.3 Actually feels like straight up fanfiction. The setting and everything is so over the top and the narrative doesn't make sense outside of a remix/rehash of eva. This is like the anime equivalent of the star wars prequels, its just a bunch of visual cues to throw a bone to fans, and ridiculous roller coaster visuals to make up for lack of writing. This feels like a ridiculous spectacle devoid of substance.  ) and there's Big Rei and an angel inside the Eva and the flying god ship and they're all fighting!!! The 2.22 fight scene seemed remarkably weighty, by contrast.I've read this thread for a long time and I've found many of the metatextual discussions insightful, but most of it seems more like "it's actually Anno playing eighth dimensional chess" than what appears to be significantly more likely, that the setting is being used for backdrop and overblown visual shock value and little else. The original series, and to some extent Rebuild 2.22, has just enough coherency in its narrative to leave gaps that can be endlessly theorized about and indeed hold a certain mystery to them. Stuff like Unit-00 smashing the glass because of the Ritsuko/Naoko connection is cool as hell. Here, anything and everything will happen, buttressed by a huge time skip and references with the subtlety of Family Guy flashbacks, so why bother? As you mention, it's remarkably reminiscent of how Star Wars media was treated, where everyone flies around in what are totally not Star Destroyers and ignores the basic themes that made the originals such a hit. It's disappointing, but I'll still watch the next film. v  v
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Jun 27, 2013 22:43
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I still have this theory that Anno is more like that teacher that you get on remedial classes / make-up tests in that he's TRYING to get enough knowledge into your goddamn brain so you can finally pass the test and remember the subjects that are important because if you're gonna let something so dismal to stop you from moving on, you might as well give up. But he still sees potential. He still sees a spark. That's why he keeps on trying. To see if we eventually get it right because, you know... 18 years. A lesser man would have quit already. Not this loving guy. And I stand by my statement of a few weeks ago: Half the charm for EVA is all the hows and whys and how we have to fill in the blanks with the information we've been given.
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Jun 28, 2013 03:43
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It feels like fanfiction because it starts off as a faithful adaptation of episodes 1-6 and then goes off into pandering la-la land and veers off again into a depressing post-apocalyptic miasma that provides an excuse to rewrite EoE, and fiction writers have already exceeded the word count of the Lord of the Rings, the Bible, the Encyclopedia Britannica, and the tax code doing that very thing, right down to using episode 6 as the jumping off point for the changes. Between that and Mari, I seriously wonder if it's done on purpose.
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Jun 28, 2013 19:35
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I don't quite get why a bunch of Gainax dudes are referring to Huaruhi Suzumiya derisively as the symbol of the anime end-times; I always thought it was pretty neat because of how it subverts the schlocky-ness and has a really dry main character that doesn't tolerate the tropey nonsense.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:28
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The Riddle of Feel posted:It feels like fanfiction because it starts off as a faithful adaptation of episodes 1-6 and then goes off into pandering la-la land and veers off again into a depressing post-apocalyptic miasma that provides an excuse to rewrite EoE, and fiction writers have already exceeded the word count of the Lord of the Rings, the Bible, the Encyclopedia Britannica, and the tax code doing that very thing, right down to using episode 6 as the jumping off point for the changes. It feels like the listen he's trying to teach is that the original eva was a product of a breakdown/its time/budget/his drive, and that this eva is just a dumb fun time and he wants it to be reduced to just a fun ride to move on from with some bones thrown to fans and to introduce a vague element of eternal recurrence. This version is basically all the depth and style stripped away and reduced to references and Eva-brand type stuff, and only makes sense in context of itself and has nothing to say to anyone watching besides "have fun". This is Anno's part in instrumentality.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:37
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Szmitten posted:I don't quite get why a bunch of Gainax dudes are referring to Huaruhi Suzumiya derisively as the symbol of the anime end-times; I always thought it was pretty neat because of how it subverts the schlocky-ness and has a really dry main character that doesn't tolerate the tropey nonsense. Kyon isn't so much "dry" as "a smug above-it-all audience insert." Haruhi is remarkably well-crafted for what it is but I don't think it's subversive at all. Anyways, I think Rebuild has plenty of worthwhile things to say about Evangelion as a whole and that claiming it's "without style" is insane, but anything I could add to the conversation at this point I've probably already said multiple times. The show was blatantly commercial and sent conflicting love/hate messages to its fans from day one, so the presence of that stuff in Rebuild is unsurprising, but it's also made room for continued growth of nearly every major character. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 20:57
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It has a lot of style. I'm hesistant to really explore its themes until I see the ending, though. 3.0's weirdness will be defined by that ending, no matter what it may be. I've seen some really harsh judgments of it so far, which to me seem unwarranted given that we've only seen the middle of the story.
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Jun 28, 2013 21:04
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The Riddle of Feel posted:It has a lot of style. I'm hesistant to really explore its themes until I see the ending, though. 3.0's weirdness will be defined by that ending, no matter what it may be. I've seen some really harsh judgments of it so far, which to me seem unwarranted given that we've only seen the middle of the story. I agree, although I'm not able to resist the temptation a years-long wait presents and will try anyways. 
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Jun 28, 2013 21:06
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Zewle posted:These rebuild movies feel kind of like schlock that exist solely as a cash-in, this feels almost like parody. 3.3 Actually feels like straight up fanfiction. The setting and everything is so over the top and the narrative doesn't make sense outside of a remix/rehash of eva. This is like the anime equivalent of the star wars prequels, its just a bunch of visual cues to throw a bone to fans, and ridiculous roller coaster visuals to make up for lack of writing. This feels like a ridiculous spectacle devoid of substance. Yeah, sure, whatever. Maaya Sakamoto said it after doing VA work for Mari and the Curse of Eva being a minor plot point in 3.X does hint at a metatextual drive for self-reflexive self-destruction. At least the Rebuild movies firmly seem to exist in their own filmic bubble instead of crowding itself into continuity proper. Szmitten: The fact that people think it is subversive when it's even more cravenly fandom self-aggrandizing than both Evas (which is no mean feat) is probably why. Like the difference between "true" punk and mallpunk. It hits the notes, the winks and the nods, but it doesn't have the same soul. Like Zewle is saying about the Rebuilds. So it's personal sentiment that doesn't really matter in the long run when both works of fiction are keenly marketed product directed at a very specific subset of mass media culture that takes poo poo way too seriously. e: When the Rebuilds are done, it is my sincerest wish that someone gives them the Plinkett Review treatment: good or bad. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 21:21
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There is that SF debris guy who's done 1 and 2 - not sure if he's still planing on 3 and 4 when they get dubs released.
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Jun 28, 2013 23:47
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Zewle posted:It feels like the listen he's trying to teach is that the original eva was a product of a breakdown/its time/budget/his drive, and that this eva is just a dumb fun time and he wants it to be reduced to just a fun ride to move on from with some bones thrown to fans and to introduce a vague element of eternal recurrence. This version is basically all the depth and style stripped away and reduced to references and Eva-brand type stuff, and only makes sense in context of itself and has nothing to say to anyone watching besides "have fun". This is Anno's part in instrumentality. I think this is the best interpretation. So... are the Rebuilds A-level canon or E-level or have they been relegated to R-leve ?
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Jun 29, 2013 02:18
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Any idea when 3.0/3.33 is going to show up in the US on blu-ray? I'm not up on where people are getting fansubbed  these days, so I'm just waiting for a stateside release.
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Jun 29, 2013 03:04
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DFu4ever posted:Any idea when 3.0/3.33 is going to show up in the US on blu-ray? I'm not up on where people are getting fansubbed They use google mostly.
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Jun 29, 2013 03:41
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DFu4ever posted:Any idea when 3.0/3.33 is going to show up in the US on blu-ray? I'm not up on where people are getting fansubbed I had heard next year.  But I don't know how official that is.
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