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Fozzy The Bear posted:My backyard has a layer of very annoying medium sized rocks about 6 inches under the surface, which makes planting anything a huge pain. So I was inspired by growingyourgreens.com and I am going to build some raised beds. Are you hoping for some calculator that looks at your available growing space and also calculates predicted yield for what can be planted in that space? With watering costs factored in? If you're just looking for what the fixed costs are to build the beds: - Lumber: draw up the plans, go to home depot for prices. - Screws: you already have them or ~$10/box for outdoor screws - Drill: have this or should own one anyway - Soil + Any amendments: The most expensive part unless you use fancy lumber. You can use lowe's mulch calculator or another site to figure out the required volume. - Fuel costs to move all this stuff to your property. - Cardboard to lay down, free if you have the boxes (who doesn't use Amazon these days?)
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Jun 29, 2013 16:53
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The dirt is the biggest variable. It can be anywhere from free if you find someone with fill dirt on craigslist, to hundreds for ~organic free trade biodynamic kelp compost~. I've posted pics of my garden here and there, but I did a quick video tour of it here to give a better sense of how big everything is.
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Jun 29, 2013 18:42
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The cucumber bomb from grandma is getting set to explode.   On the upside, my Trinidad Scorpion is insanely productive. It's already about 24" tall and setting fruit like crazy. Even the bugs love it. 
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Jun 29, 2013 18:45
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Heatwave in the SF bay area this weekend, up to 110 degrees. I have: Corn, eggplants, tomatoes, herbs, cucumber, watermelon, runner beans, squash, strawberries. Should I put ALL of these in the shadiest area possible? And, no watering during the heat of the day? Thanks! 
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Jun 29, 2013 22:18
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Well, gently caress. I seeded 6 4x4 squares with what I thought were bush green beans and turns out they're all pole beans and I've got tendrils sticking up everywhere desperately looking for something to climb. That was dumb of me. Anyone have any good ideas for something for them to climb or am I basically s.o.l? There's a lot of them per square.
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Jun 29, 2013 22:36
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Lyz posted:Well, gently caress. I seeded 6 4x4 squares with what I thought were bush green beans and turns out they're all pole beans and I've got tendrils sticking up everywhere desperately looking for something to climb. That was dumb of me. Get some tall support stakes from a hardware store. Wood or plastic doesn't really matter but wood is cheaper I think. The kind you would support a small tree with. Should be a buck or two each. Use a mallet to drive them into the ground then use galvanized steel wire or sisal twine to make supports. Train the vine's feelers around the wire and stakes.
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Jun 29, 2013 22:55
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Totally TWISTED posted:Are you hoping for some calculator that looks at your available growing space and also calculates predicted yield for what can be planted in that space? With watering costs factored in? I was looking for something where I enter the cost of the lumber, soil, seeds. Then I tell it that I produced 20 heads of lettuce, 20 pounds of tomatoes, and 20 peppers, and it lets me know that my homegrown lettuce, turns out to be $1 per head. As I said the initial costs will be high, so each year the cost of the lettuce heads will be lower. I'll stop being lazy and just make it myself.
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Jun 29, 2013 23:13
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I would honestly be shocked if gardening really saved money, especially in the short term and especially considering your labor "costs" compared to just buying some responsibly grown produce at a local market. I guess I just view it more as a hobby with tasty side effects.
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Jun 29, 2013 23:33
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Thinking of getting a cat, any plants to avoid/cordon off? Here's what I'm doing: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3376974&pagenumber=10#post416994136
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Jun 29, 2013 23:49
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Fozzy The Bear posted:I was looking for something where I enter the cost of the lumber, soil, seeds. Then I tell it that I produced 20 heads of lettuce, 20 pounds of tomatoes, and 20 peppers, and it lets me know that my homegrown lettuce, turns out to be $1 per head. I should be packing to move right now so if you give me a week I'll whip up something like that in google docs (so anyone can use it without Excel or whatever) and post it up. Or you can do it like you said mischief I think you're going to be pretty much dead on at least for the first few years/depending on the size of your setup and how much you have to water etc. But yep hobby/joy of gardening and all that.
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Jun 30, 2013 00:31
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mischief posted:I would honestly be shocked if gardening really saved money, especially in the short term and especially considering your labor "costs" compared to just buying some responsibly grown produce at a local market. Thats actually a good point. Unless you have a good amount of room to grow lots of veggies, you aren't likely to be self-sufficient. If you stick with herbs, greens, tomatoes and you stagger the planting you might be able to eat from them enough. Wish it was as efficient as it is on the Sims 3.
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Jun 30, 2013 06:06
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Lyz posted:Well, gently caress. I seeded 6 4x4 squares with what I thought were bush green beans and turns out they're all pole beans and I've got tendrils sticking up everywhere desperately looking for something to climb. That was dumb of me. I've seen photos of people in a similar situation with peas in a 4x4 bed. If I remember right, their solution was to stick in four stakes at the corners and stretch trellis netting between them. The stakes might have to be pretty sturdy, though. TerryLennox posted:Thats actually a good point. Unless you have a good amount of room to grow lots of veggies, you aren't likely to be self-sufficient. If you stick with herbs, greens, tomatoes and you stagger the planting you might be able to eat from them enough. Jeavons reckons you need at least 4,000 square feet per person to be fully self-sufficient. And that assumes a vegan diet and intensive farming practices at full efficiency. In practice, most people won't get anywhere close to that. However, if you're unemployed or marginally employed, your labour ceases to have a monetary value. At that point you can be buying rice and beans, and gardening to supplement your rice and beans with tasty herbs and vitamin-filled vegetables, and it does become economically viable/useful. E: From the environmental perspective, there's also the "zero-mile diet" argument. Every piece of produce that comes from your own back yard is one less that has to get trucked to the farmer's market (or worse, the supermarket). Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 09:06
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I've saved a ton of money on salad since I started gardening, I eat a giant salad for lunch and dinner and that wasn't exactly cheap when I bought it all at the store, I haven't had to buy any in months. Chickens on the other hand, I don't even want to think about the cost per egg factoring in the coop, delicious as they may be.
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Jun 30, 2013 10:08
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I've been toying with the idea of raising some fryers. They only take 2-3 months to reach a good weight for slaughter, and then I would have a season or two's poultry in the freezer and wouldn't have to worry about keeping them warm in the wet, cold winters here (and the coop wouldn't be as messy and smelly since it wouldn't be used 365 and the manure would be useful, as well.) By Bush Beans are getting enormous, way bigger than I expected. I should have given them all an extra 6", as the ones my folks raised last year were half the size mine are now, when they began producing..  My brandywine tomato is going to be huge, as well as my freebie volunteer tomatillos - I originally expected them to do poorly as their root balls were only about the size of a tea ball compared to how bit the plants were, but they're trying hard to outdo everybody else in the garden and I'll need to use some tape to keep them upright, soon! The kale and brussel sprouts are doing great, as well.My lemon cukes look a bit poor and my patty pan squash is still being hit by some kind of disease but I am giving it time, it may outlive the sickness and its fruiting pretty well. The lettuce is beginning to sun burn so I'm going to pull the heads today and make some salad or korean tacos.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:26
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I started 6 more roma tomatoes and 3 more jalapeno pepper plants, just in case. Everything has been so bloody wet here! I haven't seen the sun in about a week, I think.
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Jun 30, 2013 17:05
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Breath Ray posted:Thinking of getting a cat, any plants to avoid/cordon off? Here's a great toxic/non-toxic plants list for you: http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/poison-control/plant-list-cats.aspx. Offhand, I know you should never plant anything from the lily family as they are deathly toxic to cats. You may want to cordon off a garden even if all the plants are safe, because I bet that tilled soil will look like a lovely litterbox to a feline friend. 
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Jul 1, 2013 02:20
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Lead out in cuffs posted:I've seen photos of people in a similar situation with peas in a 4x4 bed. If I remember right, their solution was to stick in four stakes at the corners and stretch trellis netting between them. The stakes might have to be pretty sturdy, though. If I had the money, I would be really interested in implementing a sort of autonomous greenhouse. Basically a greenhouse that is chockfull of sensors and basically be able to detect and dispense nutrients and water automatically. Ideally, it should even warn the owner of the ideal times of harvest. If you ever went into space or underground, you could have a sort of sustainable biosphere for your family...if energy wasn't a consideration.
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Jul 1, 2013 03:58
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Well, I forgot to thin my carrots. But on the upside, I have ALL THE BABBY CARROTS! I steamed some with some fresh peas for dinner, accompanied by fondant potatoes with herbs from the garden but bought stock. Looks like summer might actually have arrived on the Sunshine Coast of BC, E: I've been too embarrassed to post my ramshackle garden til now because I'm still getting used to the northern hemisphere, but I might take some photos tomorrow. Shithouse Dave fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 08:29
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TerryLennox posted:If I had the money, I would be really interested in implementing a sort of autonomous greenhouse. Basically a greenhouse that is chockfull of sensors and basically be able to detect and dispense nutrients and water automatically. Ideally, it should even warn the owner of the ideal times of harvest. If you ever went into space or underground, you could have a sort of sustainable biosphere for your family...if energy wasn't a consideration. I've been picking away at this idea slowly. I've got an irrigation controller I can turn zone on and off using a simple HTTP post and several temperature and humidity sensors around. I found a cheap adruino moisture sensor but haven't built any adruino stuff before, so I'm open to other inexpensive options - any commercial sensors I've seen that I can read via USB or ethernet are fiercely expensive (at least the controllers are). I've already been looking for and playing with models and weather prediction data to figure out when if I can come up with 1.) when I shouldn't water that day (other than if the rain sensor is already tripped) and 2.) how much should I water based on previous and predicted temperatures. I have to think someone is already doing this in commercial farming. (edit: obviously I'm talking about changes for outside zones here. I suppose it could be helpful inside as well, but I figure the moisture sensors would mostly take care of that) Motronic fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 16:42
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Shithouse Dave posted:Awesome carrots I didn't thin my carrots either (is it too late?)--but those awesome looking baby carrots give me hope for a tasty, petite, crop nonetheless.
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Jul 1, 2013 19:12
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Motronic posted:I've been picking away at this idea slowly. I've got an irrigation controller I can turn zone on and off using a simple HTTP post and several temperature and humidity sensors around. I found a cheap adruino moisture sensor but haven't built any adruino stuff before, so I'm open to other inexpensive options - any commercial sensors I've seen that I can read via USB or ethernet are fiercely expensive (at least the controllers are). I think the Department of Agriculture could help you there. The reason why I think this project would be really handy is because there are so many variables to account for, that automation could represent an advantage. Imagine that you could have an app that could keep track of ph levels, moisture and other minutiae.
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Jul 1, 2013 20:06
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TerryLennox posted:I think the Department of Agriculture could help you there. The reason why I think this project would be really handy is because there are so many variables to account for, that automation could represent an advantage. Imagine that you could have an app that could keep track of ph levels, moisture and other minutiae. It's not something I'm going full force into trying to solve, but any resources I come across might give me motivation to work on another facet of the project. I absolutely agree on automation being helpful, and I also like DATA to make decisions based on. Which is why I'm primarily working on the data gathering parts first, because that's exceptionally useful to me even if I can't automate everything. I'm only jumping the gun on the irrigation part because my controller died last year and I replaced it with an IrrigationCaddy, so of course I want to play with that thing more beyond setting schedules and turning my irrigation on and off with my phone.
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Jul 1, 2013 21:36
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Saw a pair of Bagrada bugs mating on a wall in my yard. fffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Squashed em good, but fighting these things last year was completely awful. I didn't see any on any of my plants yet but I'm not looking forward to the battle ahead.
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Jul 1, 2013 21:42
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AlistairCookie posted:I didn't thin my carrots either (is it too late?)--but those awesome looking baby carrots give me hope for a tasty, petite, crop nonetheless.
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Jul 1, 2013 23:27
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AlistairCookie posted:I didn't thin my carrots either (is it too late?)--but those awesome looking baby carrots give me hope for a tasty, petite, crop nonetheless. No way dude! If you thin them about nowish (if you are in the Pacific Northwest), you can eat your thinnings like I did. My carrots will be in the ground well into winter and I'll just munch away at them as I fancy. I even have a couple of last years carrots that I let flower so I can have seed for next year.
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Jul 1, 2013 23:57
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coyo7e posted:I've been toying with the idea of raising some fryers. They only take 2-3 months to reach a good weight for slaughter, and then I would have a season or two's poultry in the freezer and wouldn't have to worry about keeping them warm in the wet, cold winters here (and the coop wouldn't be as messy and smelly since it wouldn't be used 365 and the manure would be useful, as well.) Just check what your local laws say about raising poultry. If you're in the countryside, there probably aren't any, but a lot of cities have bans or restrictions. e.g. in Vancouver they managed to get the ban lifted, but you're restricted to 5 birds, no roosters, and no slaughter. TerryLennox posted:If I had the money, I would be really interested in implementing a sort of autonomous greenhouse. Basically a greenhouse that is chockfull of sensors and basically be able to detect and dispense nutrients and water automatically. Ideally, it should even warn the owner of the ideal times of harvest. If you ever went into space or underground, you could have a sort of sustainable biosphere for your family...if energy wasn't a consideration. Money and energy. I found an article once about the carbon footprints of heated greenhouses (the ones they use to get tomatoes in March up in Canada), and they're considerably worse than shipping the tomatoes in from Florida. That's not to say that you can't do some greatly sustainable things with passive greenhouses, but yeah. Also, greenhouses have notorious pest control problems. You could automate watering and nutrients, but you would need some very sophisticated technology to replace your own ability to identify and respond to pests. It's probably do-able, with lots of computing power, modern image recognition methods, and a stock of pesticides / IPM measures on hand, but it would be hellishly inefficient. I'm as much of a tech geek as the rest of you, and have been tempted to set up Arduino-powered systems in the past. But so much of gardening either needs irreplaceable human expertise, or is so simple that you can automate it using non-electronic means (e.g. capillary-fed waterers), that it's really only something to do for your own edification, and not for any practical purposes. For gardening, I've become a big fan of the idea of the idea of appropriate technology.
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Jul 2, 2013 02:13
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Money and energy. I found an article once about the carbon footprints of heated greenhouses (the ones they use to get tomatoes in March up in Canada), and they're considerably worse than shipping the tomatoes in from Florida. That's not to say that you can't do some greatly sustainable things with passive greenhouses, but yeah. Yeah but Florida tomatoes are absolutely awful reddish foam balls. That is my reason for moving into gardening. You simply cannot get the same quality produce in stores, or even farmer's markets. That tomato that  has to be eaten for dinner or it will go bad on the vine is going to be fresher than one that could hang out for a day after picking, ride in the truck to the farmer's market or stand, and spend a day or two on the counter (because if it doesn't the customer will complain next time they see you at the market).I call grocery and farmer's market blueberries and strawberries "sadness berries" because that is what they are compared to the "picked this morning, make jam this afternoon" you-pick or garden variety.
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Jul 2, 2013 03:10
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Shifty Pony posted:Yeah but Florida tomatoes are absolutely awful reddish foam balls. Yeah, that's our primary motivation. We're just getting started with a raised bed vegetable garden in Texas. It's probably the worst possible time to start, but at least if our summer crops all fail horribly everything will be ready to go for an on-time fall season. It has been a lot more expensive to set up than I expected, but that's mostly because I hate money and do stupid poo poo like buy $47/yard fancy dirt and build planters that are probably 8 inches deeper than they need to be. If we get some tasty vegetables out of it I'll be excited, because this sure as heck isn't a money saving adventure!
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Jul 2, 2013 14:40
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Totally TWISTED posted:I should be packing to move right now so if you give me a week I'll whip up something like that in google docs (so anyone can use it without Excel or whatever) and post it up. Or you can do it like you said I am pretty horrible with spreadsheets, so if you could post one, that would be super awesome!
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Jul 2, 2013 20:38
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Armed Neutrality posted:Chickens on the other hand, I don't even want to think Well lets see. I spent 1200 on the coop and run plus chicks, supplies and hardware. If I get 16 eggs a week on average for 5 years that comes out to roughly $3.40 per dozen eggs. Not bad considering "free range organic eggs" are 3.99 at the supermarket. Im betting on spending roughly 5 dollars per dozen, but the joy from watching chickens is immeasurable as they are hysterical stupid feathered velociraptors.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:44
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$1200 on a coop? Holy cow. Did you buy it retail, or is it 30'x30'?!  Lead out in cuffs posted:Just check what your local laws say about raising poultry. If you're in the countryside, there probably aren't any, but a lot of cities have bans or restrictions. e.g. in Vancouver they managed to get the ban lifted, but you're restricted to 5 birds, no roosters, and no slaughter. To not continue this derail though, here's a great resource thread in Pet Island about chickens. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3417601
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Jul 2, 2013 22:50
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Well lets see. I spent 1200 on the coop and run plus chicks, supplies and hardware. I love my chickens and their eggs and I don't regret getting them one bit but it's going to take a loooong time before they pay for themselves, so to speak. It doesn't seem like you're calculating recurring consumables like feed and bedding, much less potential illnesses, infestations and predation, you're never going to get the same production from the same chickens after 5 years, and if you're not prepared to cull and replace them after a few years your feed costs will go up as you feed retired chickens and have to buy new ones in order to keep your egg production stable... Again, not to knock chicken ownership in any way, as I wouldn't give it up for anything, but I stand by my earlier assertion that gardening, while initially somewhat expensive, is a more cost effective way of putting food on your plate with a similar level of personal satisfaction.  Edit - For gardeny content, I had some help harvesting peas for a nice pot of Risi e Bisi tonight. 
Armed Neutrality fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 22:53
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Anyone have experience with pequin peppers? I've been trying to get some going from seeds and haven't been having much luck. I've actually tried multiple approaches---direct sowing, germinating in a damp paper towel, and using peat pellets---and have gotten plenty of seedlings sprouting, but after they come up and spread their seed leaves they seem to just sorta stall there for a couple days and then collapse. After they spread their seed leaves I've started hardening them off by putting them outside in the shade and bringing them in at night. They seem to get around a week into this and then just give up and fall over without having grown appreciably. For whatever its worth I've got other seedlings that I'm handling the same way---okra and bitter melon---and they seem happy enough. I've got some arbols in the same soil that are really loving happy, two varieties of habanero that are pretty happy, and thai hot and bhut jolokias that are doing okay. Just wondering if there's some weird peculiarity of pequins that I don't know about or something like that. For whatever its worth, the best looking seedlings seem to have come out of the seeds that I germinated in peat pellets. The received wisdom seems to be that peppers sowed this way don't do well, but the only seedling that I currently have going (out of about a dozen) looks like it is going to make it started out that way.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:43
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I built my coop and run out of mostly scavenged materials about a week ago. Had to buy wire, screws, paint and other fasteners though. Probably ended up being around $300 or so, not including the laying hens. Wasn't there a chicken thread? Couldn't seem to find it...Garden is going strong still. Okra is starting to come in and of course we're flooded with squashes of various types, cucumbers and so on. Tomatoes are just starting to turn. Wooo! Coop is 7.5'x4' Run is around 15'x15'. It's actually built inside my 45'x45' dog run. If they seem cool with the chickens I may get some cornish cross and let them graze in the dog pen. The great dane has slipped in the coop a couple times but she just seemed interested in what the gently caress was going on. Got 5 australorps.  
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Jul 3, 2013 03:09
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That looks pretty nice. I hate to bring this up, but if you have any predators you're really gonna want to use something better than chicken wire....like hardware cloth. At least on the bottom. Chicken wire is good at only one thing: keeping chickens in. Predators will rip right through that stuff. Also, if you have any birds of prey you'll want to get the top covered. Keeping them in a pen like that is way different than free range. You have to provide all the cover/protection for them that they would normally do a decent job on their own by hiding/roosting.
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Jul 3, 2013 07:20
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coyo7e posted:$1200 on a coop? Holy cow. Did you buy it retail, or is it 30'x30'?! Sometimes things can get pricey quick. 
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Jul 3, 2013 08:12
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A really simple and cheap covering for the top of the run to prevent hawks is fishing line. Just string a lattice of fishing line spaced about a foot apart and the hawks won't even attempt to get into the run for fear of getting tangled up. I saw this on a run at Pamplin Historical Park protecting their heritage Dominiques and thought it was genius- I'd totally use it myself if my county allowed chickens. 
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Jul 3, 2013 12:22
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I swear to all that is holy and good in the world, if it does not stop raining here I am going to burn a village the the ground. Every day, at least twice per day, we get monsoon-level rain. I can see my plants slowly drowning - leaves are turning yellow, bottom portions of plants are starting to rot/decay, everything is sad and limp. At least they are raised beds so they drain pretty well. I'm half tempted to string a big tarp over the whole garden just to keep some of the rain off. F U South Carolina. 
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Jul 3, 2013 13:25
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polyfractal posted:I swear to all that is holy and good in the world, if it does not stop raining here I am going to burn a village the the ground. Every day, at least twice per day, we get monsoon-level rain. I can see my plants slowly drowning - leaves are turning yellow, bottom portions of plants are starting to rot/decay, everything is sad and limp. Not much better up here in New England... my potatoes are drowning even on raised mounds and my green peppers have rotted from lack of sun. Just bad luck I guess. Last year I had to start most of my garden over in mid-June because of too much rain.
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Jul 3, 2013 15:23
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Marchegiana posted:A really simple and cheap covering for the top of the run to prevent hawks is fishing line. Just string a lattice of fishing line spaced about a foot apart and the hawks won't even attempt to get into the run for fear of getting tangled up. I saw this on a run at Pamplin Historical Park protecting their heritage Dominiques and thought it was genius- I'd totally use it myself if my county allowed chickens. It might keep the hawks out but it won't keep out the raccoon, weasels, cats, etc.
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Jul 3, 2013 15:32
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