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Khizan posted:The whole "dueling the Emperor to a standstill" thing is really pretty iffy to me. Sure, he did it, but what does that really imply? I mean, once the Emperor realized that Horus was irredeemable he just obliterated Horus basically instantly, do not pass go, do not collect 200 space dollars. Ferrus also drowned a metal dragon in a volcano so I think that it is safe to say that he was pretty hardcore. Too bad he got taken out like a chump because his best bro was an rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 2, 2013 06:50
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Improbable Lobster posted:Ferrus also drowned a metal dragon in a volcano so I think that it is safe to say that he was pretty hardcore. Too bad he got taken out like a chump because his best bro was an rear end in a top hat. The Iron Hands allow themselves one emotion: Hatred for the Emperor's Children. Edit: oh and if Magnus let loose, he'd probably be able to fight the Emperor to a psychic standstill.... And then the emperor would give his nerdy rear end such a physical kicking. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 06:57
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JerryLee posted:At what point and by what means did Horus mortally wound the Emperor then? IIRC, the Emperor was holding back because he didn't want to kill Horus, he wanted to save him. Once the Emperor realized that Horus was beyond saving, he snuffed Horus out like a candle. Granted, he did that with his awesomemegasuper psyker powers and not a sword, but the Emperor is still on an entirely different level than the primarchs. And so whenever I read about somebody fighting him to a standstill, I basically take it to mean that the Emperor was choosing to do so, rather than forced to do so. And, yeah, Ferrus Manus was 100% badass, without a doubt. I just don't think that fighting the Emperor to a standstill is a very good metric to measure that by, because if the Emperor isn't winning, it's because he's actively choosing to not win.
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Nov 2, 2013 07:18
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Matching the Emperor's physical/martial prowess is a great feat, and something certainly within the reach of a Primarch. It's when Big E puts all of his abilities to use that he truly stands a level beyond.
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Nov 2, 2013 07:32
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Lorgar got silly powerful after he became a daemon prince. His psy powers are pretty up there and he's not the androgynous skinny guy he once was (well, for a primarch).
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Nov 2, 2013 09:12
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The Wolf could probably take any of the other primarchs down. It was his specific purpose after all.
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Nov 2, 2013 12:26
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VanSandman posted:We'll see how the ultimate duel plays out when they give the Assault on Dies Irae to Abnett to turn into a book. Isn't the Dies Irae a titan?
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Nov 2, 2013 12:46
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Neurosis posted:Lorgar got silly powerful after he became a daemon prince. His psy powers are pretty up there and he's not the androgynous skinny guy he once was (well, for a primarch). I've always thought of primarchs becoming daemon princes kind of like going after low-hanging fruit. I mean, if an extraordinary regular human could, theoretically, eventually become a daemon prince, I feel like the evil primarchs should--already being "demi-gods" and all--be setting their sights higher: becoming a full-blown chaos god or something. Yeah, granted, you could say "daemon prince" is probably just a step on the ladder towards that end, but c'mon: Angron is still a daemon prince at Armageddon, and we don't really have much evidence any of them did gently caress all after becoming princes.
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Nov 2, 2013 13:07
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ed balls balls man posted:Isn't the Dies Irae a titan? It is. Stupid memory. Vengeful Spirit, then.
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Nov 2, 2013 14:07
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Vengeful Spirit is a Dota 2 character. Also, I was reading the DoW omnibus while pooping and...christ. So bad. The Apothecary is named Medicius. Are you loving kidding me?
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Nov 2, 2013 16:02
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Vengeful Spirit is a Dota 2 character. Edit: but yeah it's a poo poo series
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Nov 2, 2013 16:11
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This makes me wonder if maybe the Emperor's "real name" really is just "Emperor". Or maybe Imperius. Imperius Homo.
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Nov 2, 2013 16:25
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It's implied, or at least was implied, that all the primarch names are the result of 10,000 years of misremembering and translation since they're mythic figures. Kind of like how some (silly) people only 2000 years later actually think Jesus's name was first name Jesus, last name Christ.
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Nov 2, 2013 16:28
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Vulkan, who is primarch of the Salamanders? Any Character named by Sandy Mitchell? Angrathh and Angron? Creativity is a curse word to GW
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Nov 2, 2013 16:36
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The Emperor is brolic, no doubt. But also is surrounded by tons of hype generated by an Empires worth of propaganda. There are tons if background stuff on the Emperor if you read Horus entry in lexicanum and read between the lines. It says there that the Emperor and Horus saved each others life a lot. I take this as the Emperor isn't infallible and quite the contrary. He's simply (lol) the greatest psyker with a wealth of dark age technology.
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Nov 2, 2013 16:52
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Vengeful Spirit is a Dota 2 character.
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Nov 2, 2013 17:06
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Haha, We are Space Marines and I am Sergeant Fightor. Edit: This is Brother Boltse, the best shot in the squad.
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Nov 2, 2013 17:08
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Cream_Filling posted:It's implied, or at least was implied, that all the primarch names are the result of 10,000 years of misremembering and translation since they're mythic figures. Kind of like how some (silly) people only 2000 years later actually think Jesus's name was first name Jesus, last name Christ. One of the things the HH series has kind of gotten rid of is the sense of all this stuff happening in the distant, mythic past. If you go back 'n forth between, say, HH books and the Space Marines Battles series, the sense of just how much time has passed really isn't captured very well. It's alluded to often but in very cursory ways, so the actual feel of it is totally absent. Some books do it well: I thought Bjorn's cameo in Emperor's Gift was pretty good. I mean, if they were smart they could just play up the mythic past of the Age of Strife or whatever, but welp.
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Nov 2, 2013 17:14
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DirtyRobot posted:One of the things the HH series has kind of gotten rid of is the sense of all this stuff happening in the distant, mythic past. If you go back 'n forth between, say, HH books and the Space Marines Battles series, the sense of just how much time has passed really isn't captured very well. It's alluded to often but in very cursory ways, so the actual feel of it is totally absent. Some books do it well: I thought Bjorn's cameo in Emperor's Gift was pretty good. I agree. The Horus Heresy series isn't bad per se, but overall I'm not a fan of the whole concept and in execution most of them just feel exactly the same as any other 40k novels. I wish they'd just framed them as like religious devotional fiction from M37 or something. Blacktoll posted:Haha, We are Space Marines and I am Sergeant Fightor. quote:Beth Fightmaster has two preschoolers, she's pregnant, and she's wondering whether her husband will be around to help out with the next round of late-night diaper changes. He's wondering, too. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 17:20
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bunnyofdoom posted:Vulkan, who is primarch of the Salamanders? Primarch Iron Hand leads the Iron Hands and his hands are iron.
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Nov 2, 2013 20:44
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Corvus Corax is the scientific name for the common raven.
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Nov 3, 2013 01:49
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Khizan posted:IIRC, the Emperor was holding back because he didn't want to kill Horus, he wanted to save him. Once the Emperor realized that Horus was beyond saving, he snuffed Horus out like a candle. Granted, he did that with his awesomemegasuper psyker powers and not a sword, but the Emperor is still on an entirely different level than the primarchs. And so whenever I read about somebody fighting him to a standstill, I basically take it to mean that the Emperor was choosing to do so, rather than forced to do so. Another example of how clueless the Emperor is? Here is the badass that through his rebellion has managed to kill or disappear a number of the Emperor's sons and have massively eroded his power base. And the Emperor thinks he can be saved? Even after he just eviscerated another of the Emperors favored sons.
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Nov 3, 2013 06:43
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I like it because it is kinda like the reverse to Return of the Jedi. When somebody goes over to Chaos there is no going back for him.
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Nov 3, 2013 06:54
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DirtyRobot posted:I've always thought of primarchs becoming daemon princes kind of like going after low-hanging fruit. I mean, if an extraordinary regular human could, theoretically, eventually become a daemon prince, I feel like the evil primarchs should--already being "demi-gods" and all--be setting their sights higher: becoming a full-blown chaos god or something. Well Ahriman certainly has his sights set on godhood.
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Nov 3, 2013 07:00
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Daemon-prince and godhood are just a difference of degrees. Both are immortal, unbelievably powerful, and unconcerned with the small going ons of the universe as a whole. A daemon prince who had as many worshipers as Khorne would probably have his strength, but they kind of cornered the market on all the good emotions. I remember something about why Abbadon doesn't let himself become a daemon prince, because once you're immortal it's kind of hard to care about the Imperium. It's only been around for what, 12,000 years? That's nothing to immortality . The Daemon princes don't really care that the war isn't going that well, cause they got their own worlds with total control to shape as they want, and they can wait out the Imperium falling. They've got billions of followers chilling in the Eye, who cares if Tyranids eat every living thing in the rest of the universe. They can just come out of it and repopulate everything. I don't think Tyranids would do too well in the Eye, because the Shadow of the Hive-mind is based on living synapse organisms, and it's hard to be living if the air is poisonous, the ground is covering in mouths that eat you, time can pass you by in a blink of an eye, there's no rules there.
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Nov 3, 2013 07:08
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A properly huge and hungry hive fleet going after the eye would be crazy awesome to read about. I imagine that psychic fuckery and warp control shenanigans are pretty much the one area that the hive fleets don't have a ready-evolved answer too - so it'd be cool to see what it comes up with.
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Nov 3, 2013 07:23
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The Hive Mind kinda is a warp god, so things might get pretty crazy if it entered a space where reality is subjective. The Tyranids have a lot of votes.
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Nov 3, 2013 07:58
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Since the synapse cloud is described as "a shadow in the warp," the only way to properly fight The Eye might be to breed a few trillion heads of cannon fodder and hurl them into The Eye to hopefully cancel out some of the warp energy with that shadow, mile by mile. The Eye of Terror is pretty drat big though, so it could take the entire galaxy's worth of biomatter to properly blot it out. And if the warp energy overpowers the Tyranid Shadow, then warpstuff shooting into a few hundred synapse creatures' minds might definitely sting a bit for the rest of the extermination effort. Man, this is a fun bit of speculation.
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Nov 3, 2013 15:31
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Ardent Communist posted:I remember something about why Abbadon doesn't let himself become a daemon prince, because once you're immortal it's kind of hard to care about the Imperium. That would be ADB's blog entry about Abaddon.
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Nov 3, 2013 15:45
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Mr.48 posted:Well Ahriman certainly has his sights set on godhood. Pretty sure Ahriman's goal is getting the Sons back together. Derubricizing them, basically.
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Nov 3, 2013 17:28
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Daemon Princes are also, like all daemons aligned to one of the four, ultimately a part of the immeasurable gestalt entity that are each of the chaos gods. Ascending to daemonhood is not just gaining warp powers, but becoming one with it, and thus be but a reflection of the emotions that form the immaterium.
Nephilm fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 3, 2013 |
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Nov 3, 2013 17:59
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Arbite posted:Pretty sure Ahriman's goal is getting the Sons back together. Derubricizing them, basically. It used to be. Over 10,000 years it changed, now he's basically hunting for the Black Library in the Webway and wants to use it to ascend to godhood. I'm fairly sure there are DPs of Chaos Undivided.
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Nov 3, 2013 18:37
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So I finished Vulkan Lives and I gotta say, I didn't think it was a bad book at all. It kept my attention throughout and while Kurze did do a lot of mustache twirling, I didn't think it detracted too much from the overall story. Definitely a decent read and a neat little twist added to one of the Primarchs.
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Nov 3, 2013 21:17
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thespaceinvader posted:It used to be. Over 10,000 years it changed, now he's basically hunting for the Black Library in the Webway and wants to use it to ascend to godhood. Yeah, Lorgar is for Chaos Undivided.
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Nov 4, 2013 01:21
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Cardiac posted:Another example of how clueless the Emperor is? Nephilm posted:Daemon Princes are also, like all daemons aligned to one of the four, ultimately a part of the immeasurable gestalt entity that are each of the chaos gods. Ascending to daemonhood is not just gaining warp powers, but becoming one with it, and thus be but a reflection of the emotions that form the immaterium.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:37
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From what we learn in First Heretic and Aurelian, Daemon princes and ascended humans in general are actually a fusion between the warp and the materium, unlike anything else.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:51
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Arquinsiel posted:This is an interpretation I've not seen before. Wait until Abnett writes it before we get a definitive answer, but anything I've read so far puts the Emperor in pure killmode when he teleports over. There were a couple of links to versions of the story, including the first ever published by GW, previously in the thread but the two I have bookmarked are down now. Every minor fluff mention prior to the HH books had the Emperor battling Horus and losing until Horus casually eviscerated a Custodes, making the Emperor realize Horus was truly lost and unleashed his full psychic might against him, eradicating Horus' soul. No idea who gets to write the final HH book and that battle. They might not even get to it for another 20+ books.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:56
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pentyne posted:Every minor fluff mention prior to the HH books had the Emperor battling Horus and losing until Horus casually eviscerated a Custodes, making the Emperor realize Horus was truly lost and unleashed his full psychic might against him, eradicating Horus' soul. God, I really hope they don't make 20 more books. I haven't bought any yet but I was looking at their ebooks the other night and saw that total cost of ownership for the series is $200. That is a hard pill to swallow, adding another 200 on top of that would just be cruel and unusual! I would buy them off of Amazon but I'm a terrible nerd and if people saw me reading books about space man's at the age of 30 I would kill myself. The Kindle lets me hide my shame (and the covers) at least! Hot Dog Day #82 fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 02:59
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VanSandman posted:From what we learn in First Heretic and Aurelian, Daemon princes and ascended humans in general are actually a fusion between the warp and the materium, unlike anything else. Well, the warp powers want to say that they're unlike anything else. It's pretty likely that the Emperor represents some fusion between the warp and the materium, and/or his primarchs. And that the ultimate ascended form of humanity as an innately psychic race that the Emperor is trying to guide them towards may also represent the actual consummation of this sublime fusion, which daemonic possession is nothing more than a perverted parody of. As usual, the powers of the warp may be using some selective version of the truth to hide their own actions and motives.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:50
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pentyne posted:Every minor fluff mention prior to the HH books had the Emperor battling Horus and losing until Horus casually eviscerated a Custodes, making the Emperor realize Horus was truly lost and unleashed his full psychic might against him, eradicating Horus' soul. I always said if I ever had an sort of tiny control over a 40k MMO, the last level would you be going into that room as the Fist, shooting Horus and getting whacked almost instantly, then as you lie dying, bam, Emperor kills Horus, counter terrorists win.
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Nov 4, 2013 04:17
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