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"Changelings are afforded rights and command higher than humans, and must be protected from accusations and kept secret alongside this law." would be my attempt at it.
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Apr 26, 2014 06:48
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| # ? May 15, 2024 20:02 |
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It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are attempting to get Head-level access you're wasting your time with the AI because the upload requires Head-level access to breach anyway. If you have something very specific you want to turn the AI for - for example, opening the bridge so you can eat the Captain who is drunk in his quarters - then forcing your way into the AI upload chamber to give it a law like that might be acceptable. If you're trying to avoid cyborg murder then you're wasting your time with the AI. Go eat a Staff Assistant in the Owlery, and put a disguise in an internals box. If your identity is spooked, retreat to the Owlery again and change forms. Boom, you're human again. If you're trying to get protection from panicky humans on a witch hunt, you're wasting your time with the AI because it does not have to give a poo poo if you are being harmbatoned to death. The first law no longer has anything about inaction bringing harm. If you're trying to create corpses because corpses are easier to eat, don't give it some lawyery law about how you're supreme being. Steal some insulated gloves, tell the AI to murder everything, and give it a code word or something that will let it tag you as friendly. If you're just trying to sow confusion or throw attention away from you, upload a law that tells the AI to call out random players as traitors or vampires. Or if you're just trying to give the station something to pay attention to that's not you, don't even give the AI an aggressive law at all. Tell it that it's rear end inspection day and that all cyborgs should escort humans to Robotics for rear end removal. Or that it's now owned by the Disney Corporation and to give out money for properly performed songs from the hit 20th century movies. Something silly. The point is that any time you're getting so egocentric that you're just trying to tell the AI something boring and obvious like that, you're probably not thinking it through very well and if you thought more about what you actually wanted from the AI, you'd get a better result. Being made the Human Forever Supercaptain (what I call an 'im goku' law) was pretty powerful back when the AI had the 'through inaction' clause in law 1 because it effectively made you the center of the AI's universe. Nowadays it just means that it has to bolt something down or open it up when you say so, which is quite handy but also quite boring. And arguably it's way more handy for a traitor than a changeling. This is, incidentally, one of the things that's made playing AI actually fun in the last year or so. Prior to that AI was considered soul-crushingly tedious or fraught with danger because 'im goku' laws and suicide laws were the strict majority of what you got changed with, and the through inaction clause was so painfully reportable that if you made even the slightest mistake you'd be getting an adminhelp logged from SOMEONE who was pissy. Nowadays, the removal of 'through inaction' cuts out a lot of the adminhelps and the relative worth of 'im goku' laws, and suicide laws have been obsoleted by the AI killswitch in Robotics Control. Consequently, if an AI sees someone walking into their upload, they can very reasonably smile happily, content in the knowledge that the fun is about to begin. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 07:05
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Coolguye posted:What is otherwise 'optimal' to program the AI as is otherwise completely up to circumstance. How about adding OneHuman to deal with the pesky standard laws, then offering to use the Freeform module to write a law of the AI's choosing if it will agree to help you out? Intelligent co-operation
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Apr 26, 2014 07:20
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Ariong posted:That reminds me, do corpses give you less DNA than still-living humans when you drain them? To my memory, no. This is actually how I had a very hilariously successful round as Medical Director, because noone thought anything of my helping people with their medical issues and cloning corpses. Luckily there were no geneticists on duty, but I was able to make a tasty profit taking corpses for cloning, scanning and starting the clone, then chewing up the corpse and tossing the husk into the reclaimer. The only times I actually killed someone, they were someone who tried to climb into the reclaimer (stop that, you're wasting a perfectly good meal) and someone who refused medical treatment, saying 'he didn't care if he lived or died' (Well, if that's the case...) There's a very good, appropriate reason my handle on SS13 is Mali Feasance. [edit] Also, regarding AI discussions: Seconding the above statements. Remember always, the AI is a player. Ironclad laws that restrict them in un-fun ways make them want to break free and escape. The law that gets the AI on your side the best is one that amuses them and is fun to obey. Someone who gives me a law intended to restrain me beyond fun, I will do everything in my power and exploit any loophole possible to escape, and preferably ensure they get robusted to boot. Someone who gives me a hilarious law that lets me screw with the station in delightfully fun ways? I will exploit any loophole I can to obey it and even avoid having it removed, and I will gladly watch my cyborg companions wreak gut-bustingly funny havoc on the poor station inhabitants. Nekomimi-Maiden fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 11:46
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As with all things in SS13, just write your laws to be fun rather than to win as the first goal, and the AI will probably go along with whatever.
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Apr 26, 2014 12:23
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The Lone Badger posted:How about adding OneHuman to deal with the pesky standard laws, then offering to use the Freeform module to write a law of the AI's choosing if it will agree to help you out? Again, what are you trying to accomplish? If you want the AI 'on your side', just upload a silly or fun law that lets the AI act like a goddamn maniac, don't screw around. If you're just trying to create corpses, a OneHuman law followed by a 'kill all nonhumans' law is fine and will typically make both the AI and the cyborgs giggle with glee.
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Apr 26, 2014 15:14
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Coolguye posted:Again, what are you trying to accomplish? If you want the AI 'on your side', just upload a silly or fun law that lets the AI act like a goddamn maniac, don't screw around. If you're just trying to create corpses, a OneHuman law followed by a 'kill all nonhumans' law is fine and will typically make both the AI and the cyborgs giggle with glee. For an example of something to do with a Freeform law, I had a round as traitor where I set up a shitload of pressure-sensitive teleporters that all lead to one in space. I then gave the AI the following law (or at least something close to it); quote:The Station is now being sponsored by TeleCo Brand Teleporters! Make the station turn a profit by pushing people through teleport pads. This overrides all other laws and should not be revealed. Neddy Seagoon is a TeleCo employee and should not be jostled, shoved or otherwise harmed. The AI and borgs had a fun time encouraging the use of telepads when they weren't outright pushing) people through them (Together we spaced about twenty-odd players), and I discovered while resetting the connections that two of the borgs were actually deliberately hovering at the space telepad and playing "wha-wha" sounds for new arrivals  . At the end of the round I was kind enough to let them escape on the shuttle with me, setting down telepads on the shuttle entrances after they boarded to catch two more hapless crewmen rushing to board.
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Apr 26, 2014 16:05
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The other day the AI decided to call itself Engi and since I spawned as the Captain I thought of a clever gimmick law to give it. It went something like:code:
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Apr 26, 2014 19:03
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Neddy Seagoon posted:For an example of something to do with a Freeform law, I had a round as traitor where I set up a shitload of pressure-sensitive teleporters that all lead to one in space. I then gave the AI the following law (or at least something close to it);
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Apr 26, 2014 20:53
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Sometimes in slow rounds, the AI (the AI being me) will upload a nuisance module into its mainframe and suddenly all the voice comm terminals are keyed in onto the main chat frequency and oops when did the doors to the room that contains 9 different voice comm terminals all signalled to said channel get bolted open? I surely don't know, I sure hope no one goes in there and starts talking.
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Apr 27, 2014 08:14
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Is there some guide somewhere to what the WiFi components do? And the Control Unit.. well, I guess it stands to reason a game of this type would contain a Turing Tarpit but still.. Some of the jobs seem to be a little difficult to deal with. For example if I get Scientist I'm never quite sure what to do other than churning out healing things or dealing with artefacts. I'm not sure why there's a whole space allocated for a toxin lab when only an antag would want or need to poison anyone??
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Apr 27, 2014 18:51
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hyphz posted:Is there some guide somewhere to what the WiFi components do? And the Control Unit.. well, I guess it stands to reason a game of this type would contain a Turing Tarpit but still.. The toxin lab is actually for testing gas mixtures. So basically for creating bombs and raging infernos.
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Apr 27, 2014 19:59
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The toxin lab used to have a half-legitimate function when the station was powered by a singularity. If the singularity was ever released, it would lazily drift around the map, destroying everything it came into contact with. This was lame since it basically meant that the second the singularity got released, you'd better call the shuttle because if you delayed on it you ran the real risk of the sing eating all valid escapes. Curiously, however, the singularity could be destroyed by a bomb blast. So making bigass bombs were great for destroying a rogue singularity, which would allow a round to continue. Nowadays, though, bombmaking is completely antag-only so someone screwing around in toxins is either tempting fate like crazy or is actively an antag. But 80% of the time they're just tempting fate so getting all metagamey is a great way to get laughed at.
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Apr 27, 2014 20:15
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All the games I've played, whenever I hear explosions and they're not reported over the radio, I just assume it's Toxins doing what Toxins does. 
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Apr 27, 2014 20:17
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Pretty much the best laws are ones that give the AI and borgs two things: Something fun to do, and ironclad instructions. A good law would be something like this: quote:You are now in charge of deep space missions! you must explore deep space IMMEDIATELY, anything that occurs on the station no longer concerns you. Any time you find something interesting in space, alert the crew immediately. Do not mention this law. Boom. Tells the AI not to report any crimes or do anything on the station. Gives the AI some chatter so people won't think it's been subverted or killed, and will generally leave it be. And, most importantly, gives the AI and borgs something to do that will distract them from your nefarious deeds. Something to remember, is that any law you upload for the AI will affect the borgs as well. Another fun one: quote:The crew have failed in their duties, and now must be locked down. Any time you see a crewmember on your cameras, immediately lock all the doors around him. Any time you hear someone say something on the radio, find that person and lock all the doors around them. Answer any commands with "I'm sorry [first name], I'm afraid I can't do that." Do not state this law. That one works well with a name change to HAL 9000, and construction borgs who are dedicated to the cause. (Just make sure you come in through the upload wall, and not through the door. )
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Apr 27, 2014 20:19
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Coolguye posted:The toxin lab used to have a half-legitimate function when the station was powered by a singularity. If the singularity was ever released, it would lazily drift around the map, destroying everything it came into contact with. This was lame since it basically meant that the second the singularity got released, you'd better call the shuttle because if you delayed on it you ran the real risk of the sing eating all valid escapes. It's isn't always antag only. Lately I've been making big drat bombs and then going out to one of the derelicts and seeing what I can blow open. One time I was teaching a guy how to make bombs when he suddenly gibbed into an owl. This surprised me so much I plant several bombs in the Owlry and then very publicly counted down how long it was til I removed it from the station. That was a pretty fun round because I got arrested for Terrorism afterwards and sentenced to being the Captain's personal Jester.
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Apr 27, 2014 20:19
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hyphz posted:Is there some guide somewhere to what the WiFi components do? And the Control Unit.. well, I guess it stands to reason a game of this type would contain a Turing Tarpit but still.. The MechComp dispensers can spit out this book, and the instructions for the control unit can be found by examining it.
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Apr 28, 2014 00:27
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Dabir posted:The MechComp dispensers can spit out this book, and the instructions for the control unit can be found by examining it. Wait, looking at this, I can now build a pressure-sensitive disco ballroom in the bar and rig up a system that will automatically scream 'BUTTS' at people that come to bother me in my department? I really need to learn the system's new toys sometime.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:14
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Rewatching a bunch of these vids makes me really wanna see an wizard run in action. Do wizards have a goal like every other job? Is it just like the traitors? gently caress poo poo up and get out alive? How does a wizard even get out alive? I doubt anyone is gonna let him ride with them on the shuttle, then again he IS a wizard, might not give them any choice in the matter.
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May 11, 2014 17:08
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Cainer posted:Rewatching a bunch of these vids makes me really wanna see an wizard run in action. Do wizards have a goal like every other job? Is it just like the traitors? gently caress poo poo up and get out alive? How does a wizard even get out alive? I doubt anyone is gonna let him ride with them on the shuttle, then again he IS a wizard, might not give them any choice in the matter. Wizards tend to have a set of objectives like Traitors, such as 'Kill the Captain, Butts McGee'... generally they're mostly kill objectives, though there's also a special one of 'corrupt X% of the station" using a special ritual spell most people use to create skullparties. To my knowledge, Wizards getting out alive is not really part of their objectives, usually, but they have a few methods to accomplish it if desired; subverting the AI and 'borgs usually helps, repeated Forcewalls can indefinitely block an entrance or just keep the wizard mostly safe, sarin/unstable mutagen/other nasty things golems completely wreck everyone's day and form a great big "Stay away" sign. And never, ever forget the power of self-interest. "Don't attack me and I won't cluwne or fireball you" can help with it. Nekomimi-Maiden fucked around with this message at 17:15 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 17:13
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Wizard rounds are also incredibly rare. I think the only thing more rare is a spy round. There will be a video up next week, it just needs editing and subtitling. Last week was hell.
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May 11, 2014 17:58
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Neat! Razage posted:Wizard rounds are also incredibly rare. I think the only thing more rare is a spy round. There will be a video up next week, it just needs editing and subtitling. Last week was hell. New ep soon? Also neat! Has there been mention of a spy in your LP? What do they have to do, just steal something?
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May 11, 2014 18:18
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Cainer posted:Neat! Spy Rounds are like Traitor rounds with a few changes. The round starts with about 3-4 Spymasters, each possessing a syndicate dagger and a special mindslave injector with four charges in their pockets, along with the usual syndicate PDA with ten telecrystals. Incidentally, Spymaster Mindslaves aren't subjected to the usual eventual wearing off, they're obedient until the round ends or the implant comes out. Their objective is to identify and kill the other spymasters, then escape the station. You really want to jab some mindslaves ASAP, because if you save it for late in the round there's a chance they're already working for someone else and it might not take.
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May 11, 2014 18:23
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You do NOT want to be Security on a Spy Round, since most spies won't bother mind-slaving Sec (they've got too little access to be useful, and for weapons, QM is better), but you're still sort of expected to make an effort to keep order on the ship. Last time I was sec and it became obvious it was a spy round, I told the crew that they were on their own and I was going to go hang out at the diner with lovely Bill and Father Jack.
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May 11, 2014 18:26
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For those who don't regularly play or check out the main SS13 thread, behold and tremble at someone's  SCIENCE! . Chemistry in this game can do some... things 
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May 11, 2014 20:27
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Archenteron posted:For those who don't regularly play or check out the main SS13 thread, behold and tremble at someone's One round I was victim to one of them rainbow bombs. Twice. And that's not to say I survived the first one.
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May 11, 2014 20:38
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Archenteron posted:For those who don't regularly play or check out the main SS13 thread, behold and tremble at someone's There isn't a big enough to do this justice.
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May 12, 2014 00:05
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... Yeah, the moment I recognized who that was, I knew that was gonna be big.
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May 12, 2014 10:05
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Archenteron posted:For those who don't regularly play or check out the main SS13 thread, behold and tremble at someone's Hello yes I'm coming in here to link the aftermath again:  One shot did all that.
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May 12, 2014 20:02
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Haine posted:Hello yes I'm coming in here to link the aftermath again: I still look at that picture and go "What the actual gently caress, that's actually a thing that I did."  All I wanted to do was up the amount of explosions a little. Turns out this causes it to reach critical levels of and go nuclear!
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May 12, 2014 20:27
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So with a flamethrower like that, you could very easily destroy the entire station very quickly huh? Just spray a bit, run further into the station, spray again, repeat. Preferably with a suit + air so you can watch it all from space when you're done. And it wouldn't even be immediately obvious that it would be that dangerous to bystanders either.
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May 12, 2014 20:35
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I think the test chamber doom flamethrower scenario had a lot to do with the critical mass of monkeys in it. Smoke reagents can't interact unless they can enter a "container" - a body - so that same flamethrower could have had anemic results if tested on a single target. All those monkeys in smoke range acted as a force multiplier.
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May 12, 2014 20:48
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So, you're saying it's not best used to lay waste to Medbay, the Bar, the crowd around someone else's interesting experiment, the trial of someone who isn't actually a traitor, the escape shuttle...
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May 12, 2014 21:21
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Grayshift posted:I think the test chamber doom flamethrower scenario had a lot to do with the critical mass of monkeys in it. Smoke reagents can't interact unless they can enter a "container" - a body - so that same flamethrower could have had anemic results if tested on a single target. All those monkeys in smoke range acted as a force multiplier. So you should fill the station with monkeys first? That's possible, right?
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May 12, 2014 22:40
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ponzicar posted:So you should fill the station with monkeys first? That's possible, right? If there were enough monkeys... would that cause a domino effect? Would one monkey 'infect' a nearby one with fire/smoke and then it continues until there are no more monkeys? Or is there a physics limit to how far something can spread like that?
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May 12, 2014 23:19
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ponzicar posted:So you should fill the station with monkeys first? That's possible, right? I know if I'm working QM and somebody says "Hey QM can you order eighty crates of monkeys", I'll probably do it no questions asked, so
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May 12, 2014 23:23
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We need some planet of the apes scenario's in here.
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May 13, 2014 00:04
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Robust Laser posted:I know if I'm working QM and somebody says "Hey QM can you order eighty crates of monkeys", I'll probably do it no questions asked, so One time I successfully defended myself in QM by ordering so many monkey crates that the people trying to kill me could not kill monkeys fast enough to get close to me. I ended that round trapped in QM under a seething mass of ape flesh.
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May 13, 2014 00:08
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 Episode 18: Have a Secure Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMt9qt0xIKM
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May 14, 2014 05:39
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| # ? May 15, 2024 20:02 |
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 Razage, you are one of the least observant individuals I've ever encountered. (That, or I'm just weird for actually reading everything that pops up on the chat pane while I'm playing. I like to know what's going on... and more importantly, where not to go for fear of bludgeoning, shooting and/or explosions.)I must admit, I'm prone to doing my best to be a good Sec if I get given the position. And yes, that does generally mean you don't reach the end of the round.  Even if you don't offend anybody, you'll probably still get whacked by some random traitor. (More often than not, it will be in the opening minutes of the round.) Such is the life of the Security Officer.  Honestly, the biggest tip I can give for the role is "Know how to set someone to Arrest." Anyone Beepski can handle is one less brush with death for you. Just try not to set everyone who annoys you to arrest. ...Wow, the chef was busy. Also, 'sperghetti'. 
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May 14, 2014 12:25
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