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Reading the series out of order sounds really pointless to me, Deadhouse Gates has a bunch of characters from Gardens and you'll have no relation to them if you've never read it.
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May 22, 2014 11:45
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Abalieno posted:This is still spoilery stuff: Hi, welcome back. Abalieno posted:"Shadow" is about all those events that shape things, but that you don't see directly, the manipulations behind the scenes of the two new gods. "Light" is actually the meat of the books (because the act of writing is about selectively giving light to particulars that make a story), the story of those characters caught between gods like between anvil and hammer, and the Malazan Empire itself and its role in the shaping of history. And "Darkness" is the mysterious past, the current trilogy Erikson is writing. Could you expand on this please and what gives you that idea?
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May 23, 2014 12:57
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Opal posted:Could you expand on this please and what gives you that idea? There's not much to expand. Erikson uses the example of clay, that you shape around some other form. In the end you see the clay (the written page) but you do not see the actual thing that gave its shape. Yet, you can deduce its form by "what isn't there". Shadowthrone & Cotillion work that way. You can only infer their actions and motivations. They shape things, but you only see what is being shaped, not their own actions, they stay in the metaphorical shadows (I'd say 80% of what Erikson writes is some form of inside joke he's usually the only one to recognize or understand). That's why GotM opens with the Night of Knives (the stepping point into godhood), but instead of Shadowthrone, you see Paran. The guy whose life is ultimately shaped by those events. Abalieno fucked around with this message at 17:29 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 17:27
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Abalieno posted:Shadowthrone & Cotillion work that way. You can only infer their actions and motivations. They shape things, but you only see what is being shaped, not their own actions, they stay in the metaphorical shadows (I'd say 80% of what Erikson writes is some form of inside joke he's usually the only one to recognize or understand). That's not entirely true unless you assume that you can never trust their explicit motivations, because they do lay some of those out.
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May 23, 2014 17:33
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Abalieno posted:
But GOTM doesn't open with the Night of knives. Unless I am completely wrong the events of Esslemonts "Night of Knives" are different to the riots in the Mouse quarter that Paran witnesses at the start of GOTM.
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May 23, 2014 18:00
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bucketybuck posted:But GOTM doesn't open with the Night of knives. Unless I am completely wrong the events of Esslemonts "Night of Knives" are different to the riots in the Mouse quarter that Paran witnesses at the start of GOTM. Isn't it the day before? Anyway, the point still stands, it's all triggered by those events 
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May 23, 2014 18:09
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Abalieno posted:Isn't it the day before? No, they are two totally different times. Paran isn't in Malaz during Night of Knives. Night of Knives was year 1154 of Burns sleep GOTM was year 1163.
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May 23, 2014 20:54
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I believe that the events of Night of Knives occur *after* the prologue chapter of Gardens of the Moon, which is set in 1154. Paran is a young boy in the prologue and Kellanved has not yet returned at that point (they talk about how the anti-sorcery laws will not survive when he returns, IIRC)
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May 23, 2014 21:42
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bucketybuck posted:No, they are two totally different times. Paran isn't in Malaz during Night of Knives. Paran observed the Mouse Riots with Whiskeyjack when he was a youth - which was in 1154 in the same year that Surly "killed" Dancer and Kellanved. He promptly ignores Whiskeyjack's "don't join the military" advice and becomes a Captain - initially a bad one. I still think the Shadow/Dark/Light connection is far fetched.
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May 23, 2014 21:45
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Sounds like a lot of projected babble to me, sorry.
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May 23, 2014 22:13
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Yeah, guys - meaning no offense or disrespect, but Abalieno has a more...metaphysical view of and approach to the Malazan novels than most readers.
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May 23, 2014 22:31
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It's still an interesting viewpoint. Even if I disagree personally.
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May 23, 2014 23:38
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Habibi posted:Yeah, guys - meaning no offense or disrespect, but Abalieno has a more...metaphysical view of and approach to the Malazan novels than most readers. Considering that this is something I specifically discussed with Erikson through a few e-mails, I doubt it But anyway, the Mouse riots are described in Esslemont's book too. They all lead to that particular day. If you don't see the Prologue is all about that day then I don't know what to say. It's not interpretation, it's just plain obvious. (also, there are piles of evidence. Laseen appears in that Prologue, coming from a portal. I always assumed she was personally there because it was specifically that day. If it isn't, it's still the same week anyway. There's a convergence, Laseen knows it, orders the purge to erase all possible connections Kellanved might have in Malaz. Laseen being the trope of "I am paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?" She also sends Whiskeyjack away because she doesn't trust him. The second time we meet Paran is the slaughter in Ikto Kan, which is Shadowthtone's answer to Laseen about that day (hey, look at these nice dogs I found). Within the same chapter Paran returns home and meets Felisin, and Tavore is briefly mentioned too. It's obvious it's all triggering from there (and Sorry joins the army). Tattersail also says she was down there in the streets, while Paran was up in the castle looking. Paran also tells the adjunct to leash back at the corruption in the nobility, which is why the adjunct takes interest in Paran, and follows his advice. Even suggesting that it might be Paran himself, indirectly and through that throwaway advice, to cause Felisin's fate (since House Paran is caught in that type of purge too). Etc, etc...) Abalieno fucked around with this message at 00:57 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 00:08
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nucleicmaxid posted:It's still an interesting viewpoint. Even if I disagree personally. Sure. Abalieno posted:Considering that this is something I specifically discussed with Erikson through a few e-mails, I doubt it
Habibi fucked around with this message at 02:43 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 02:41
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feraltennisprodigy posted:Reading the series out of order sounds really pointless to me, Deadhouse Gates has a bunch of characters from Gardens and you'll have no relation to them if you've never read it. As someone who's still only on book four, I'm gonna mention that of the four most prominent returning characters (Kalam, Fiddler, Apsalar and Crokus) two of them barely have personalities in GOTM, one is almost completely different, and the other is Crokus. I didn't have much relation to them in the first book, because all the really cool stuff was centered around other characters. I mean, I enjoyed GOTM, but the series really *clicked* with DHG, and that's where everyone starts to really shine.
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May 24, 2014 09:05
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After being intimidated again and again by GOTM for four years, I finally up and read the book in two sittings. While I know that GOTM is the weakest in the series, and that a lot of stuff will be explained in the better written sequels, I was wondering what was the point of that Hairlock subplot? They save the mage by putting him into a marionette, then regret it almost immediately, then the puppet turns crazy and later gets devoured by Hounds and is never mentioned again?
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May 24, 2014 15:42
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Inspector Gesicht posted:After being intimidated again and again by GOTM for four years, I finally up and read the book in two sittings. While I know that GOTM is the weakest in the series, and that a lot of stuff will be explained in the better written sequels, I was wondering what was the point of that Hairlock subplot? They save the mage by putting him into a marionette, then regret it almost immediately, then the puppet turns crazy and later gets devoured by Hounds and is never mentioned again? The Hairlock technique comes into play in the later Malazan books. Used by someone from GOTM. Hairlock getting sucked into the warrens also grabbed Toc, who will pop up over the course of the series. Toc is not the person who uses the hairlock technique in later Malazan books. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 16:05
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Inspector Gesicht posted:After being intimidated again and again by GOTM for four years, I finally up and read the book in two sittings. While I know that GOTM is the weakest in the series, and that a lot of stuff will be explained in the better written sequels, I was wondering what was the point of that Hairlock subplot? They save the mage by putting him into a marionette, then regret it almost immediately, then the puppet turns crazy and later gets devoured by Hounds and is never mentioned again? Without giving much away, on top of what is mentioned above, Hairlock himself is central to a plot point later on in the series.
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May 24, 2014 22:22
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Starting on the Bauchelain and Korbal side books, enjoying the humor and Reese's general attitude of "whatever keeps me from my family". Has there been any word on the Karsa trilogy or is all the focus still on FoD?
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May 25, 2014 03:48
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TryAgainBragg posted:Has there been any word on the Karsa trilogy or is all the focus still on FoD? The Tiste trilogy is soon to be two of three extant. As regards Karsa, we are all biding our time until we WITNESS. I mean, why would you not WITNESS?
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May 25, 2014 07:44
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It's just going to be 3 books of Karsa de-constructing civilizations brick by brick while Dassem tells anyone who'll listen that he isn't fond of cities/
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May 25, 2014 21:24
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TryAgainBragg posted:It's just going to be 3 books of Karsa de-constructing civilizations brick by brick while Dassem tells anyone who'll listen that he isn't fond of cities/ Dassem might have other things on his mind.
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May 25, 2014 21:31
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Bleh, as long as there is less of the Tiste Andii  apathy/poems/rants and more of them simply getting poo poo done.
amuayse fucked around with this message at 06:22 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 06:19
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On a related note I checked Amazon to see when Fall of Light was coming out and saw it was pushed back to January 2015. drat you Erikson!! 
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May 26, 2014 06:51
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You'll have Assail to tide you over soon 
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May 26, 2014 08:37
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amuayse posted:Bleh, as long as there is less of the Tiste Andii Out of the entire main series you have maybe two books of their apathy and whatever, and every other book of them getting poo poo done.And really, outside of The Clip Radius, their apathy/etc is really well done.
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May 26, 2014 18:35
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Blood and Bone has made me really excited for Assail. ICE has done a great job making Jacuruku feel decidedly different from the other settings present in prior Malazan books. The Crimson Guard is still present, but they aren't as bland as in past books. Murk and Sour are hilarious, almost Erikson quality comedy characters.
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May 27, 2014 15:34
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apophenium posted:Blood and Bone has made me really excited for Assail. ICE has done a great job making Jacuruku feel decidedly different from the other settings present in prior Malazan books. The Crimson Guard is still present, but they aren't as bland as in past books. Murk and Sour are hilarious, almost Erikson quality comedy characters. Definitely his best novel to date.
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May 27, 2014 16:04
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Habibi posted:Out of the entire main series you have maybe two books of their Really? Even that crew seems to be able to get things done when they need to, albeit with a lot of passive-aggressive "we don't give a poo poo and our existence is pointless" monologues.
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May 27, 2014 21:44
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It was pretty hilarious when Kallor was poking fun at those Andii for acting all mopey when he's considerably older and been through a lot more.
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May 28, 2014 03:34
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Ynglaur posted:Really? Even that crew seems to be able to get things done when they need to, albeit with a lot of passive-aggressive "we don't give a poo poo and our existence is pointless" monologues. They're a capable bunch, no doubt, but around Clip they (and other characters) turned more than a little teenaged.
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May 28, 2014 07:54
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They were whiny before that weren't they? That group was just messed up
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May 28, 2014 11:47
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Black Coral didn't really do the Andii any favors.
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May 29, 2014 06:45
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amuayse posted:Black Coral didn't really do the Andii any favors. I am pretty sure that was the idea. It makes the eventual redemption that much better.
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May 30, 2014 02:56
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Blood and Bone was a disgrace. ICE did indeed create a very good mood and setting, then you get to the end and realise that the entire book was a complete loving waste of time.
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May 30, 2014 19:39
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bucketybuck posted:Blood and Bone was a disgrace. ICE did indeed create a very good mood and setting, then you get to the end and realise that the entire book was a complete loving waste of time. I have read the other ICE books but haven't made it to Blood and Bone yet. Was it that bad, like Night of Knives bad or just poor story arc?
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May 30, 2014 20:48
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Tooter posted:I have read the other ICE books but haven't made it to Blood and Bone yet. Was it that bad, like Night of Knives bad or just poor story arc? No. You can tell ICE loves travel journals and such as the book is a pretty interesting travel journal but the story stuff is pretty inconsequential or presented as such.
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May 30, 2014 21:59
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I like the "who would win in a fight" game. Let's play: Quick Ben vs. Sormo E'nath. Lostara Yil vs. Apsalar Apt vs. Hedge Baudin vs. Rallick Nom Kruppe vs. Tehol the Only (wits only. No weapons, no warrens).
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May 31, 2014 15:12
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Sormo E'nath needed twelve crows to carry his soul. Quick Ben has twelve souls. Quick Ben. Shadow Dancer versus sometimes avatar of Cotillion who surpasses Cotillion. Apsalar. Demon or Bridgeburner. Demon. A man who needs special undies to muffle the clank of his balls or an accomplished assassin who accidentally turned himself into a sort of budget Toblakai. Gonna go with Baudin. Tehol wins before Kruppe can spool up the word vomit, no contest.
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May 31, 2014 15:18
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Interesting fact. Karsa, which comes from Arabic , is a small village in the mountains of north Sicily, consisting of 20 families. Coincidence?
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May 31, 2014 20:31
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