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Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Thewlis posted:

Hey Auspol, quick question.
My Mum was notified that her company will begin mandatory drug and alcohol testing for all employees, and if they refuse they will be subject to disciplinary action. She works for a pharmaceutical company, and they're claiming that it's part of the government's OH&S requirements. Are they full of poo poo?

If the Pharma company is a US subsidiary (or even does business in the USA possibly) then they may be normalising their global policies in order to comply with the US laws:
http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/Ingredients/New-US-House-bill-would-require-drug-testing-for-pharma-employees

Then again Australia may have done something similar for similar reasons.

Hypation fucked around with this message at 05:59 on May 29, 2014

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Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar
Talking to people at work over the last few days and one topic's been coming up a lot - superannuation. It used to be that most everyone I knew would contribute extra to their super each week. I stopped ages ago because it seemed painfully obvious to me that it was pointless and, unless I took up a career in politics, I'd never get to actually see my money.

Now that view is getting a lot more common - at least where I work. I know of at least ten people who have stopped making extra payments and they've remarked that payroll told them it was happening everywhere.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please
People want the extra money in their pocket and/or it's only something like $500 extra that gets you a government contribution.

Those people need to work harder as hard work propels you into higher income brackets and then dumping your money into super becomes a tax dodge.

Hypation
Jul 11, 2013

The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Gorilla Salad posted:

Talking to people at work over the last few days and one topic's been coming up a lot - superannuation. It used to be that most everyone I knew would contribute extra to their super each week. I stopped ages ago because it seemed painfully obvious to me that it was pointless and, unless I took up a career in politics, I'd never get to actually see my money.

Now that view is getting a lot more common - at least where I work. I know of at least ten people who have stopped making extra payments and they've remarked that payroll told them it was happening everywhere.

At 15% Tax - of course I contribute to super. You think I want to end up on the Pension?

Increasing the superannuation contribution rate was a good idea of the ALP - it should have been raised further though.

I think the underlying theme is a function of short-termism plus increased costs of living plus a feeling that you have a right to welfare and no obligation not to avoid the need to rely on it.


Nibbles141 posted:

People want the extra money in their pocket and/or it's only something like $500 extra that gets you a government contribution.

Those people need to work harder as hard work propels you into higher income brackets and then dumping your money into super becomes a tax dodge.

Instead of making Super 15% tax for all, why not make it a percentage of your current tax rate? ie your super tax rate is 30% to 50% of your existing tax rate. I think that is a fairer way to do it and make future middle income retirees less dependant on the pension. [This is not a trap I don't have anything up my sleeve - you can actually agree with this one]

Hypation fucked around with this message at 06:08 on May 29, 2014

Drugs
Jul 16, 2010

I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein
How good is the $35b* in upper class tax welfare we dole out to people like hypation every year?

*projected to grow to $50b in two years time

e: didn't see edit.

Senor Tron
May 26, 2006


If the rationale is to reduce pressure on the pension, then there should be a limit. Without knowing the numbers something like 15% tax rate on any voluntary contributions while your overall super contribution for the year is less than 25K, and then no tax concessions for super contributions after that. All it does at higher tax brackets is present a tax haven and a major loss of revenue for the government.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please
Not really the lower your income the lower the contributions you're able to make anyway and the lower the contributions the lower their impact on the end result of your super.

You could make incentives the other way, ie penalties for not contribution certain amounts in certain income brackets but that would never get off the ground.

Bent Wookiee
Feb 23, 2007

AAAHHH!!?
Just as an addendum to the recovery of HECS debt from dead people discussion this morning. This is relevant to those of you looking at heading overseas to avoid paying it back:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-29/abbott-rules-out-chasing-post-mortem-hecs-debts/5485736

quote:

He [Bruce Billson] said the Government was more focused on collecting HECS debts from graduates who work overseas and do not pay taxes in Australia.

"We are in discussions through a dialogue with the UK for example about how we might interact with overseas governments where students from Australia, with a HECS debt, may be living in another country."

...

Ragingsheep
Nov 7, 2009

Bent Wookiee posted:

Just as an addendum to the recovery of HECS debt from dead people discussion this morning. This is relevant to those of you looking at heading overseas to avoid paying it back:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-29/abbott-rules-out-chasing-post-mortem-hecs-debts/5485736

Stop the foreign refugees from coming in; stop the HESC refugees from going out.

Murodese
Mar 6, 2007

Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.
I'm fairly sure that other countries are not allowed to collect tax on the behalf of another government.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Gorilla Salad posted:

Talking to people at work over the last few days and one topic's been coming up a lot - superannuation. It used to be that most everyone I knew would contribute extra to their super each week. I stopped ages ago because it seemed painfully obvious to me that it was pointless and, unless I took up a career in politics, I'd never get to actually see my money.

Now that view is getting a lot more common - at least where I work. I know of at least ten people who have stopped making extra payments and they've remarked that payroll told them it was happening everywhere.

What makes you think you won't get to see your money? Not contributing to super is a really bad idea, you don't want to end up living on Centrelink and cat food.

norp
Jan 20, 2004

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil
Just take people's passports when they sign up for HECS imo

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Murodese posted:

I'm fairly sure that other countries are not allowed to collect tax on the behalf of another government.

I know America makes an effort to tax its expats.

Mr Chips
Jun 27, 2007
Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Bent Wookiee posted:

Just as an addendum to the recovery of HECS debt from dead people discussion this morning. This is relevant to those of you looking at heading overseas to avoid paying it back:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-29/abbott-rules-out-chasing-post-mortem-hecs-debts/5485736

Do they even have any stats that show a significant number of people have been heading overseas and not paying their HECS back?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Mr Chips posted:

Do they even have any stats that show a significant number of people have been heading overseas and not paying their HECS back?
Given that the best information available about a GP copayment (German) is that it is more expensive to administer than it recovers I'll let you answer the question yourself. Fact =/= to anything for this government. They are the atomic government: Made up out of nothing.

Halo14
Sep 11, 2001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQoT9xXRXtY

i got banned
Sep 24, 2010

lol abbottwon
Basically when I retire I'm gonna start cooking meth and if it blows up and kills me who gives a poo poo the world is hosed anyway.

Good to see that Liberal guy getting stripped of his award for having an opinion. Imagine if they did that with Nobel prizes. You can't retrospectively take back an award, does he have to hand back the physical part of the award? It's just so awkward and makes no sense.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

quote:

A Victorian mother is demanding answers after her teenage daughter's armpits were shaved by her teacher as part of the school's curriculum.

Melissa Woods, mother of 14-year-old Taylah, says her daughter was "extremely upset" when her armpits were shaved in front of two other girls in a classroom.

"I didn't understand why they had to do it," Ms Woods told radio station 3AW on Thursday.

The teenager, who has a disability, had been enrolled in a life skills program at Wangaratta District Specialist School in the state's north-east.

The teacher told Ms Woods that her daughter would get picked on if she didn't shave, she said.

"I spoke to the teacher the very next day and she told me that she has the right to do it, it's part of the curriculum."

But Ms Woods hadn't given the school permission, saying her daughter had previously told her that she didn't want to shave.

"That's invading her rights as a person to decide whether or not she wants to get it done or not."

She wrote to the school principal, who wrote back explaining how it is part of the curriculum and she regrets not having a permission slip for her to sign, she said.

Ms Woods has since written to the school's regional director for a better explanation.

The school has been contacted for comment.

CATTASTIC
Mar 31, 2010

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Looking forward to "The Shave" coming soon to ABC tv.

i got banned posted:

Good to see that Liberal guy getting stripped of his award for having an opinion. Imagine if they did that with Nobel prizes. You can't retrospectively take back an award, does he have to hand back the physical part of the award? It's just so awkward and makes no sense.

It works just like on TV.

The Chief's all "hand in your Nobel, you're off the force."
"...and the other one"
*pulls second, smaller, Nobel prize from ankle holster and throws it on desk*

Kegslayer
Jul 23, 2007

Murodese posted:

I'm fairly sure that other countries are not allowed to collect tax on the behalf of another government.

You get taxed in the country where you 'earned' the income and I was still taxed in Australia when working overseas on Australian sourced income, in most cases you just get a foreign tax credit back for taxes you've paid to avoid double taxation.

They can definitely tax people who are overseas but the problem would be trying to find these people and also how much they earn.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS
And for whoever wanted the column with the IMF stuff: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/trickledown-theory-all-washed-up-now-20140527-zrpcc.html

quote:

The International Monetary Fund is one of a number of influential groups now raising concerns that austerity budgets in a post-GFC world not only contribute to inequality but also act as a major brake on sustainable economic growth. The IMF's vocal stance is particularly significant because it comes from the group most synonymous over the past three decades for advocating big social service cuts to spur growth.

A widely-publicised internal paper by three of its senior economists released earlier this year questions the conventional market view that inequality has little or no negative impacts on growth. While it cautions that the relationship between growth and inequality is complex, the study concludes on the basis of its multi-decade, cross-country statistical analysis, lower inequality "is robustly correlated with faster, more durable growth".

Significantly, the analysis claims that the statistical evidence now generally "supports the view that inequality impedes growth". It points to a broad range of other research for why this might be the case. Growing inequality, for example, can slow or stagnate economic growth because the political and social consensus critical to achieving pro-growth policy settings is undermined. Or it crimps direct inputs into durable growth such as an economy's educational and skills base, investment flows or a healthy society.

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
There's no intrinsic reason why the ATO can't enter into an agreement with HM Treasury to collect money from Australian nationals in the UK or whatever. It's the same contractual idea as ye olde tax farmers. You're still subject to both sets of laws, the same way that if you're a paedo you can go to both Cambodian jail and Australian gaol.

Murodese
Mar 6, 2007

Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Kegslayer posted:

You get taxed in the country where you 'earned' the income and I was still taxed in Australia when working overseas on Australian sourced income, in most cases you just get a foreign tax credit back for taxes you've paid to avoid double taxation.

They can definitely tax people who are overseas but the problem would be trying to find these people and also how much they earn.

If you're overseas for the entire tax year, you're not required to file a tax return or pay tax in Australia, though. Just the country you're residing in. In addition, countries that we share reciprocal healthcare with (ie. Belgium) don't charge you the medicare levy, but they do charge Australia for any medical treatment given to you.

Smegmatron
Apr 23, 2003

I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

Life Skills is code for "special needs but we don't fund anything to assist special needs so here's an easier curriculum."

I'm going to hazard a guess and say its a PE teacher trying to meet some life skills outcomes about hygiene or something. PE teachers are all just temporarily embarrassed sportsball superstars earning a crust making fat kids cry in between bouts of complaining about having to teach actual book stuff with words about things and stuff when there's a footy somewhere not being kicked and a fat kid somewhere feeling slightly better than miserable.

This is why PE teachers think it's ok to publicly shave children.

adamantium|wang
Sep 14, 2003

Missing you

quote:

George Brandis accused of 'gagging' race discrimination commissioner Tim Soutphommasane over changes to race-hate laws

May 29, 2014 - 3:15PM
James Massola, Sarah Whyte


Labor Senator Lisa Singh has accused Attorney-General George Brandis of ''gagging'' race discrimination commissioner Tim Soutphommasane, while allowing ''freedom'' commissioner Tim Wilson to speak on the government's proposed changes to the Race Discrimination Act.

During Senate estimates hearings, Senator Brandis also clashed with outgoing disability discrimination commissioner Graeme Innes over the downgrading of Mr Innes' role.


Race discrimination commissioner Dr Tim Soutphommasane with Disability Discrimination Commissioner Graeme Innes who clashed with Attorney-General George Brandis during Senate estimates over the 'downgrading' of Mr Innes' role Photo: Andrew Meares

Mr Wilson was asked during the hearing by Senator Singh whether he supported Senator Brandis' assertion in March that Australians have a ''right to be a bigot'', and on the proposed changes to the Race Discrimination Act, which the Attorney-General is preparing to alter again.

The proposed changes to race-hate laws set out in the Act have drawn an avalanche of protesting submissions from ethnic and communities groups, while Senator Brandis' own backbench has also strongly criticised the winding back of legal protections.

Senator Singh asked Dr Soutphommasane – a critic of the government's changes – to comment but committee chair Ian Macdonald ruled the questions out of order as it was ''hypothetical'' and sought an opinion.


''Freedom'' commissioner Tim Wilson at the Senate estimates hearing. Photo: Andrew Meares

Senator Brandis said he was of ''aware of Dr Soutphommasane's views on this. I think Dr Soutphommasane's views are very well known to the public.''

But later in the hearing, Mr Wilson was allowed to re-state his clear support for changing the Act.

''I have made it quite clear that I support in the public domain changes to the Act. That includes the submission which is available on the website which is publicly accessible. I have not changed my view,'' he said.

''I have said with relation to the exposure draft that was put out by the government that it was a good basis to start the discussion about how it would be changed.''

After the hearing, Senator Singh said Dr Soutphommasane ''was gagged, in complete contradiction to Tim Wilson who was able to share his views on the RDA''.

''Senator Brandis initially stopped me from asking the question and accused me of being dishonest in asking for Dr Soutphommasane’s views,'' Senator Singh.

''This is a man who stands for freedom of speech yet won't allow a witness at the table to speak.''

Dr Soutphommasane said he accepted the chair's ruling.

''I was disappointed not to have the opportunity to express my serious concerns about the Race Discrimination Act exposure draft,'' he said.

Mr Innes' position, which was cut in the budget, receives nearly 40 per cent of all complaints to the commission, more than double the sex discrimination commissioner, the next most common source of complaints.

He told the Senate hearing people with disabilities would be severely disadvantaged by the loss of a full-time commissioner.

Senator Brandis refused to accept that the removal of the full-time commissioner is a downgrading of the role.

''To say it has been abolished or downgraded is a lie,'' he said.

''You shouldn't assume where this will end. It may be that in the end, the best allocation of function among the commissioners is to have only one person doing the disability discrimination work, especially with the NDIS coming and I will be doing more work with the president.''

But Mr Innes, who is also legally blind, shot back: ''To not view this as a downgrading is a fascinating point of view.''

Mr Innes said of the nearly 40 per cent of complaints to the Commission that come from people with disabilities, 45 per cent of them related to employment discrimination.

He told the Senate hearing that the role required 60 hours a week and that a part-time commissioner would ''undoubtedly not'' be able to fulfil the requirements of the role.

''Inevitably the number of complaints in this area will increase and there is systemic work that will need to be done by someone in the role of disability discrimination commissioner,'' he said.

The Commission's president, Gillian Triggs, agreed that the number of complaints was very high: ''Disability complaints comprise by far the largest component. It is 39 per cent and tends to increase each year.''

Also in the hearing, Senator Singh pressed Mr Wilson to ''specifically answer whether as human rights commissioner, whether you believe that people have a right to be bigots''.

Mr Wilson responded: ''People have an absolute right to freedom of thought which ranges from wonderful thoughts to some ...''

''I'll take that as a yes,'' Senator Singh interjected.

''No, the answer is that people in terms of freedom of speech have a right of freedom of speech within limitations.''

(Man)Children.

Also worth a special quote:

quote:

Mr Innes' position, which was cut in the budget, receives nearly 40 per cent of all complaints to the commission, more than double the sex discrimination commissioner, the next most common source of complaints.

...Mr Innes said of the nearly 40 per cent of complaints to the Commission that come from people with disabilities, 45 per cent of them related to employment discrimination.

adamantium|wang fucked around with this message at 07:13 on May 29, 2014

Drugs
Jul 16, 2010

I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Smegmatron posted:

Life Skills is code for "special needs but we don't fund anything to assist special needs so here's an easier curriculum."

I'm going to hazard a guess and say its a PE teacher trying to meet some life skills outcomes about hygiene or something. PE teachers are all just temporarily embarrassed sportsball superstars earning a crust making fat kids cry in between bouts of complaining about having to teach actual book stuff with words about things and stuff when there's a footy somewhere not being kicked and a fat kid somewhere feeling slightly better than miserable.

This is why PE teachers think it's ok to publicly shave children.

Sounds like you're mad about imaginary sitcom stereotype jock sports teachers

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

Fantastic

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Haters Objector posted:

Sounds like you're mad about imaginary sitcom stereotype jock sports teachers got shaved by a sports teacher

Kegslayer
Jul 23, 2007

Murodese posted:

If you're overseas for the entire tax year, you're not required to file a tax return or pay tax in Australia, though. Just the country you're residing in. In addition, countries that we share reciprocal healthcare with (ie. Belgium) don't charge you the medicare levy, but they do charge Australia for any medical treatment given to you.

From memory, unless you leave permanently, you pretty much always need to file a return (since you need to declare your foreign employment income) and you can still be considered an Australian resident for tax purposes if you meet the various criteria.

You get taxed on income that was derived from Australia and worldwide but you get the relevant foreign tax credits back on tax you've paid.

edit:

adamantium|wang posted:

Senator Brandis refused to accept that the removal of the full-time commissioner is a downgrading of the role.

I don't even understand how that works in his brain.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please
Given that the government is seemingly ignoring the amount of complaints as to disability and employment whilst trying to strip the disability pension to force people back into work, cognitive dissonance seems par for the course

KennyTheFish
Jan 13, 2004

Nibbles141 posted:

Given that the government is seemingly ignoring the amount of complaints as to disability and employment whilst trying to strip the disability pension to force people back into work, cognitive dissonance seems par for the course

Thats not cognative dissonance. That is proper planning. They know disabled people will be screwed, so they remove the ability for them to effectivly complain first. Hang the lot of them.

adamantium|wang
Sep 14, 2003

Missing you
Auspol May - We know where we are now... which is tragic.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS
Australian Politics - May Edition: Joe is love, Joe is life

Mr Chips
Jun 27, 2007
Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?
Does anyone know where to find the quintile breakdowns for a)income earned and b)fraction of total tax paid? (ie the top 20% of income earners make X% of all earned income and pay Y% of all income tax paid). I've been trawling the ABS but haven't found anything explicit.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
Cat Meowgill or Grog probably have a post about it somewhere.

----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLoZalF29JY

Hahahahahahahaha

E: Sound goes a bit poo poo a few minutes in.

Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 08:24 on May 29, 2014

Contra Duck
Nov 4, 2004

#1 DAD

Mr Chips posted:

Does anyone know where to find the quintile breakdowns for a)income earned and b)fraction of total tax paid? (ie the top 20% of income earners make X% of all earned income and pay Y% of all income tax paid). I've been trawling the ABS but haven't found anything explicit.

This one? http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@...9-10&num=&view=

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib
A new Christopher Pyne initiative?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mother-wants-answers-after-teenage-daughters-armpits-were-shaved-by-teacher-20140529-396jg.html

quote:

Mother wants answers after teenage daughter's armpits were shaved by teacher

A Victorian mother is demanding answers after her teenage daughter's armpits were shaved by her teacher as part of the school's curriculum.

Melissa Woods, mother of 14-year-old Taylah, says her daughter was "extremely upset" when her armpits were shaved in front of two other girls in a classroom.

"I didn't understand why they had to do it," Ms Woods told radio station 3AW on Thursday.

The teenager, who has a disability, had been enrolled in a life skills program at Wangaratta District Specialist School in the state's north-east.


The teacher told Ms Woods that her daughter would get picked on if she didn't shave, she said.

"I spoke to the teacher the very next day and she told me that she has the right to do it, it's part of the curriculum."


edit: oh poo poo I should read the thread before posting :negative:

JBark
Jun 27, 2000
Good passwords are a good idea.

Doctor Spaceman posted:

I know America makes an effort to tax its expats.

Yep, I've got to file a US tax return every year, even though I owe nothing due to reciprocity for local taxes paid and other things like a tax free threshold and overseas cost of living stuff. Still a pain in the rear end, and it just gets worse with things like the FBAR, which requires me to report the balances of every single overseas bank account I have once the balance in one of them goes over $10k at any time during the year. Fines for not filing an FBAR start at $10k and go up to well over $100k depending on the circumstances. People have been fined for literally more money than they actually have in the overseas accounts, even when they've done nothing illegal other than forget to file.

It did surprise me when I moved here and found out people didn't have to repay HECS if they moved overseas. Guess I just figured a loan was a loan, and you had to pay it off no matter where you live. Man, the amount of extra money I'd have right now if I hadn't been sending back thousands and thousand of dollars to the US for student loan payments every year is painful to even calculate. The joke back when I lived in the US was that the easiest way to find Bin Laden would be to tell a loan company like Sallie Mae that he was late on student loan payments, and they'd have him found in no time.

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see the gov start to require AU expats to file returns every year, even if they owe nothing in Australian taxes, just like the US does. Once they start doing that, they'll start hitting up expats for HECS payments and other stuff.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please
It might make sense for a country like the US but is guess the cost of administration against what they would get back doesn't make it worthwhile. Probably why HECS isn't chased in the first place.

Just as likely that it wasn't considered when HECS was introduced as they didn't forsee governments dumb enough to cut funds making the more desirable skilled jobs elsewhere.

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Smegmatron
Apr 23, 2003

I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

Haters Objector posted:

Sounds like you're mad about imaginary sitcom stereotype jock sports teachers

I know a lot more PE teachers than you do :ssh:

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