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Plavski posted:Now where have I heard that before? If the Imperium having analogues to Nazi Germany is news to you, I don't know what universe you've read up until now.  SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I disagree he doesn't trust any of them; he has to trust them. He has given them armies vast and well-equipped enough to destroy hundreds of planets, who literally wipe out entire species. This isn't the sort of thing you give to people while you cross your fingers and hope 'well i sure do hope they never think to do anything weird with these guys!' Oh, that's my fault - I didn't mean to imply he doesn't trust them at all, he clearly does. What I'm trying to say is he does do quite a bit of manipulation of them through their egos, which works variously well or poorly depending on the exact case, we just only generally see the impact of the poor cases because those cause the Heresy. Each Primarch has their faults & vices, and I appreciate that, because it's what makes them relatable as characters (Rogal Dorn is too proud, for example) and the Emperor works with what he's given; He's got literal demi-Gods to deploy, so he's not going to bin one like Konrad Curze off just for being sociopathic when there's obviously a way he can use a sociopath. The biggest problem standing in the way of this being a good story is the hugely variable quality of the various GW authors.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:48
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Shockeh posted:If the Imperium having analogues to Nazi Germany is news to you, I don't know what universe you've read up until now. I've never got that vibe myself. It's always come across more Staliny than Hitlery.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:53
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A totalitarian/facist state ruled by a supreme leader that aggressively imposes itself over anything it finds, and wipes out anyone not matching it's profile of racial purity using cadres of elite stormtroopers? No Third Reich vibes at all? Nothing? Really? The entire 40k setting (at least, before it hit it's stride and started writing it's own material) is at least 33/33/33 Dune/Starship Troopers/<Various other cribbed settings> anyway.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:58
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:One of the HH books makes mention of the Primarchs climbing some tower on Terra and talking to the Emperor at the top; in the same passage, they talk about 2 of the Primarchs being found wanting, or somesuch. How hosed up were these 2 Primarchs that people like Kurze were deemed acceptable leaders but they were not? Why would you trust one-hundred thousand of the greatest soldiers ever known to someone like Angron? How are you this loving dumb? The two sanctioned legion's Primarchs were most likely already corrupted by chaos when they were rediscovered, or had a gene-seed flaw so big it could not be ignored. Or went traitor before the HH. The most interesting part though is that I read somewhere that the Ultrasmurfs legion absorbed the legions that were sanctioned into their own rank (can't find the source though). So probably chaos or pre-rebellion because the gene seed flaw would be in the legions too.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:59
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iminay posted:The two sanctioned legion's Primarchs were most likely already corrupted by chaos when they were rediscovered, or had a gene-seed flaw so big it could not be ignored. Or went traitor before the HH. The most interesting part though is that I read somewhere that the Ultrasmurfs legion absorbed the legions that were sanctioned into their own rank (can't find the source though). So probably chaos or pre-rebellion because the gene seed flaw would be in the legions too. I believe it was mentioned in The First Heretic. If the lost Primarchs' corruption or failure came about only after they landed on whatever planet, there's no reason to believe that the Marines made from Terran stock in the Legions meant for the Lost were inherently flawed. (Is this what you're saying?) I mean there could be some flaw that made them more susceptible, but the Emperor wouldn't exactly build that in intentionally, and if he decided to absorb rather than annihilate the lost primarchs' Legions, he presumably did not find the geneseed itself wanting. As an aside, Tower of Terra sounds like an awesome Disney Land ride and/or Goosebumps novel.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:05
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Big E understands how to manipulate people, but not how to raise sons. He's a lovely dad.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:20
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Sulecrist posted:As an aside, Tower of Terra sounds like an awesome Disney Land ride and/or Goosebumps novel. Tower of Terror is Universal Studios, I think, but yeah.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:25
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In the Vengeful Spirit the emperor also trusts the Dark Angels alot, and points out the idea that they might be traitors is insane to Malacador. Due to all the stuff the Dark Angels have apparently done during the great crusade. Sadly i really dislike what Gav Thrope is doing with the Dark Angels in his new series. The fallen are apparently the biggest secret the Dark Angels apparently have. I really wish Abnett wrote more about the Dark Angels since in a single book where the Lion wasn't even the main characther they managed to make him more interesting than all the other HH books.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:36
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Shockeh posted:If the Imperium having analogues to Nazi Germany is news to you, I don't know what universe you've read up until now. The human race needs living space. Shockeh posted:The biggest problem standing in the way of this being a good story is the hugely variable quality of the various GW authors. This is where the fractured and uncertain nature of the fluff and setting really comes into its own i think. A good writer can go a lot towarda rehabilitating or enriching a particular faction or character, with continuity a smaller concern. See: Abnett on the Ultramarines even after McNeill or ADB with the World Eaters.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:51
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UberJumper posted:In the Vengeful Spirit the emperor also trusts the Dark Angels alot, and points out the idea that they might be traitors is insane to Malacador. Due to all the stuff the Dark Angels have apparently done during the great crusade. After the recap I did up thread it started rereading the angels books and man, Jonson is such a loving rear end. Luther is a far better man than he is, Jonson seems like a more likely candidate to fall to chaos than Horus. In the opening half of descent he already breaks up the traditions of an egalitarian order to being one of hierarchy and nobility, he breaks treaties to trigger a war which he then claims credit for winning when it was Luther who broke through, and he moves the knights from being servants of the civil populace to de facto rulers making him de facto King. Cream_Filling posted:The human race needs living space. Yeah, and McNeill's petulant attempts to retcon Abnett's take on the ultramarines back to his lovely version rather than embracing the ambiguity really comes off as unprofessional attempts to poo poo on someone else's works for his own ego Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 16:56
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Fried Chicken posted:Yeah, and McNeill's petulant attempts to retcon Abnett's take on the ultramarines back to his lovely version rather than embracing the ambiguity really comes off as unprofessional attempts to poo poo on someone else's works for his own ego Wait, what's this?
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Jun 19, 2014 17:15
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Sulecrist posted:Wait, what's this? Mark of calth and vengeful spirit both have scenes in them of ultramarines lecturing their fellows to drop stuff like "theoretical practical" and basically behave more in line with the textually dogmatic ultramarines McNeill writes and less the humanized thinkers Abnett writes.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:25
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Fried Chicken posted:After the recap I did up thread it started rereading the angels books and man, Jonson is such a loving rear end. Luther is a far better man than he is, Jonson seems like a more likely candidate to fall to chaos than Horus. In the opening half of descent he already breaks up the traditions of an egalitarian order to being one of hierarchy and nobility, he breaks treaties to trigger a war which he then claims credit for winning when it was Luther who broke through, and he moves the knights from being servants of the civil populace to de facto rulers making him de facto King. His order is far more Egalitarian than the existing ones. He lets anyone join the order and become a knight. Before this you needed to be a noble, or someone of importance to have a chance at becoming a knight. Which in the book a lot of people really dislike. He basically brought peace and propserity to Caliban through his rule, he turned the world from a horrific Death World into one that people can wander the forest without being brutally ripped apart by horrific monsters. But yeah Jonson is an rear end in a top hat, because how it currently seems is Luther makes a single mistake and is sent home. Even though that really makes almost no sense, and then Luther would have been sitting on Caliban for what 50+ years? Which makes Fallen Angels make very little sense since that takes place quite far into the heresy (after drop site massacare)? Yet according to Zahael they have only been back for not very long at all.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:50
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One fair point Jonson makes, though, is that there's a reason he has trouble reading and relating to regular people: he's not human. Not by any reasonable definition of the word. Jonson finds humanity as comprehensible and relatable as orks or eldar.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:56
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UberJumper posted:His order is far more Egalitarian than the existing ones. He lets anyone join the order and become a knight. Before this you needed to be a noble, or someone of importance to have a chance at becoming a knight. Which in the book a lot of people really dislike. One thing that stood out is that at the celebration of becoming a knight you had Luther making the rounds making Zahael feel welcome, apologizing for having to be the devils advocate, and basically building bridges. Jonson pulls Zahael aside to brag about himself and trash Luther. It's stuff like that which makes this come off as having possibilities that were squandered by poor writing quote:He basically brought peace and propserity to Caliban through his rule, he turned the world from a horrific Death World into one that people can wander the forest without being brutally ripped apart by horrific monsters. quote:But yeah Jonson is an rear end in a top hat, because how it currently seems is Luther makes a single mistake and is sent home. Even though that really makes almost no sense, and then Luther would have been sitting on Caliban for what 50+ years? Which makes Fallen Angels make very little sense since that takes place quite far into the heresy (after drop site massacare)? Yet according to Zahael they have only been back for not very long at all. They really dropped the ball editing this one. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 18:01
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Fried Chicken posted:Mark of calth and vengeful spirit both have scenes in them of ultramarines lecturing their fellows to drop stuff like "theoretical practical" and basically behave more in line with the textually dogmatic ultramarines McNeill writes and less the humanized thinkers Abnett writes. Well that's awful of him. I'd assumed that they were so poorly written by McNeill because he was a bad author, but it seems he is both a bad author and intended the Ultramarines to be idiotically shallow caricatures. Fried Chicken posted:
Things are different... on Caliban!
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Jun 19, 2014 18:02
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Well that's awful of him. I'd assumed that they were so poorly written by McNeill because he was a bad author, but it seems he is both a bad author and intended the Ultramarines to be idiotically shallow caricatures. I expect in his mind it is something like building bridges showing how the ultramarines changed from Annette 30k marines to his 40k marines but it just really comes off as infighting and lack of respect for his fellow authors. Maybe I'm just overlaying too much to it
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Jun 19, 2014 18:05
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I don't know, belief in the Codex as an absolute unvarying set of if X then Y instructions that can never be deviated from and invariably does not cover the given circumstances seems so entrenched in a lot of writers and fans that I can see someone genuinely being hostile to Abnett's attempts to make the Ultramarines and the Codex make sense.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:14
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Cythereal posted:One fair point Jonson makes, though, is that there's a reason he has trouble reading and relating to regular people: he's not human. Not by any reasonable definition of the word. Jonson finds humanity as comprehensible and relatable as orks or eldar. Well not necessarily just that, since unlike most of the other primarchs (except maybe Kurze) he also grew up a wildman in the woods with absolutely no human contact for however many years. Versus most of the others who were adopted while still infants, usually by prominent father figures and/or large close-knit communities. Even compared to Kurze, who at least grew up a wildman in a human city and at the very least learned to read and observed people from afar, Jonson basically didn't even know how to speak until encountering humans for the first time as an adult. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 18:35
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I disagree he doesn't trust any of them; he has to trust them. He has given them armies vast and well-equipped enough to destroy hundreds of planets, who literally wipe out entire species. This isn't the sort of thing you give to people while you cross your fingers and hope 'well i sure do hope they never think to do anything weird with these guys!' He trusted them innately the way any father would trust a son not to turn on him and try to murder him v0v
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Jun 19, 2014 18:38
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vigorous sodomy posted:He trusted them innately the way any father would trust a son not to turn on him and try to murder him v0v Especially since he basically created them from scratch according to his own designs and even did a bunch of magic hoodoo on them. The relation is far closer than even a father, since he consciously designed and created them. They might even be carrying some of his own soul or little shards of his ancient, somewhat fractured personality or something like that. Not to mention the fact that he can probably read their minds to a decent extent whenever they actually meet. Being able to read minds and see into the future probably makes you a little complacent when it comes to your own kids. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 18:42
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Fried Chicken posted:the order was doing that prior to his discovery, they mention his leading breaking with tradition. Unless I missed it there was no prior grand master so the creation of new elevated roles and hierarchy over egalitarian traditions is all him. Certainly fits with Guilleman's description of him as a natural aristocrat, and as a plot point helps explain more of the schism with Luther, that Jonson is splitting with the ideals that Luther holds in favor of a more imperial outlook. Though that last point might be crediting Thorpe too much. You are right about the order existing before the Lion. Weren't they more or less completely insignificant before his rise to power though? I thought for the longest time Jonson, Luther, and the other together consisted of the leadership of the order. I thought the Lion was pretty genuine about that. Also the Lion is a primarch, who are supposed to more or less make anyone less than a primarch have a ton of issues being around them. quote:One thing that stood out is that at the celebration of becoming a knight you had Luther making the rounds making Zahael feel welcome, apologizing for having to be the devils advocate, and basically building bridges. Jonson pulls Zahael aside to brag about himself and trash Luther. It's stuff like that which makes this come off as having possibilities that were squandered by poor writing Zahael is the only other one aside from Jonson who killed the Calibanite Lion, which is something that everyone knows Luther desperately wanted to do. I didn't really think he was trashing luther more, just pointing out they now have a special bond that nobody else will ever be able to have. quote:he had just wrapped up his war of conquest a few weeks before the imperium showed up, I don't think you can really credit him with bringing peace and prosperity. The peace and prosperity were what he promised, it was the imperials who delivered rather than him. He did bring peace and prosperity to the vast majority of the world, and the people know this. He was the figure head for leading his 10 year great crusade against the beasts, while Luther was probably doing a lot of the grunt work, everyone views him as the saviour of the world. The reality is he is still a primarch and even without Luthers scheming he would have still managed to clear the world of horrors. Also i thought the Lion was more or less responsible for summoning the imperium using the knowledge he found in the knights of lupus's library. quote:the whole timeline for things happening in these books is wonky, as are plot points and locations. "The beasts have been pushed back to the Northwilds! Oh here is one an afternoons hike from the Order's base!" Yeah they really did drop the ball on editing it. The timeline for the dark angels makes very little sense in the Horus Heresy, especially since the Lion and the First Legion were second only to Horus and his Sons in terms of victories. Which basically relies on Luther and Co sitting on Caliban for a very very long period of time doing nothing. Also i really dislike how all the things like regular space marines basically having problems being in the same room as their primarch, etc. Apparently does not seem to really exist for the Lion.
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Jun 19, 2014 19:16
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UberJumper posted:Also i really dislike how all the things like regular space marines basically having problems being in the same room as their primarch, etc. Apparently does not seem to really exist for the Lion. That really depends on the author. Even for the same Primarchs, in one book Horus can't be looked upon by even his Mournival, and in other books they casually converse and chit chat about (eg: Vengeful Spirit). The longer the series is getting the more inconsistent it is becoming. In The Unremembered Empire there are multiple Primarchs present, yet even the mortals around them seem to be unfazed about being in the same space as them. I think with all these little short stories being pumped out the quality assurance and editing of the Horus Heresy series is taking a nose dive.
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Jun 19, 2014 20:42
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iminay posted:That really depends on the author. Even for the same Primarchs, in one book Horus can't be looked upon by even his Mournival, and in other books they casually converse and chit chat about (eg: Vengeful Spirit). The longer the series is getting the more inconsistent it is becoming. In The Unremembered Empire there are multiple Primarchs present, yet even the mortals around them seem to be unfazed about being in the same space as them. I think with all these little short stories being pumped out the quality assurance and editing of the Horus Heresy series is taking a nose dive. Some of it's author, some of it's resistance-by-exposure. Most authors do seem to get that marines become pretty much little boys trying to please daddy around their primarch, though.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:03
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I remember reading a passage somewhere that what united the primarchs was competing for the emperors attention and affirmation, that they were all in competition for his "good job kid". His will, and quest for glory and purity of purpose rubbed off on everyone and they worked as a well oiled machine. When he left, it changed. It used to be enough to simply earn His approval, but with Horus, they didn't feel the same. that's no knock on horus, but all of their indivudal traits and agendas showed a little more. This is compounded by the fact that they were hurt by feelings like the emperor wouldnt share anything of his endevour, that he was leaving his sons behind, he didnt trust them, or that their work was no longer important, he no longer cared.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:38
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We all know that there are several BL books that are bad. Which ones are -entertainingly- bad, though, as in so bad/corny/wrong that they actually have value? I ask because I was reading the Dune prequels again after a decade and good lord, they are bad. So bad that they achieve a 'The Room'-like level of artistry. Like Duke Leto weeping over pastries, House Hakonnen proving that they are evil by leisurely tossing bunnies into dog pits, And Bene Gesserit using Jedi mind trick left and right. loving king Joffrey looks like FDR compared to Emperor Shaddam in the House Atreides/Corrino/Harkonnen. Other than CS Goto and his multilasers, does 40k have anything that comes close? As for the Primarchs, many of them really wanted to be validated by the Big E, but many others were quite happy to do their own thing. The Khan, Angron, Kurze, Alpharius and Fulgrim didn't need or want anyone's approval stamp. In their own way, they all had their own vision and didn't care who liked it or not, Dad included. Lorgar, Magnus, Sanguinius and perhaps Russ were far more into vying for the favorite son spot. Horus as well, though he was likely so sure that he was the top dog that he didn't anguish much over it until erebus started dripping revel...um, poison in his ear.
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Jun 20, 2014 06:23
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The Emperor could have prevented the entire Heresy by telling some of his idiot sons about the webway project. "Don't tell Magnus this Horus, but the reason I'm putting you in charge is that I'm going back to Terra to build a new Space Highway straight through the galaxy" *puts on yellow hardhat and telleports away*
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Jun 20, 2014 07:49
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Fearless posted:Big E understands how to manipulate people, but not how to raise sons. He's a lovely dad. I dunno, I think he did a decent job with Ferrus "Iron Hands" Manus.
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Jun 20, 2014 10:44
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Sandweed posted:The Emperor could have prevented the entire Heresy by telling some of his idiot sons about the webway project. Add to that, "Oh and i'm going to have to heavily shield the gate, so go easy on attempting any psychic contact". Also, "Oh hey guys, the Warp is full of malovelent entities that will try and corrupt you. So watch out for that and don't trust their lies. You might want to mention this to your inner circle of Astartes as well". That's the thing about the heresy. The whole thing falls apart if the Emperor simply keeps his sons reasonably informed.
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Jun 20, 2014 11:18
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Sandweed posted:The Emperor could have prevented the entire Heresy by telling some of his idiot sons about the webway project. "I need you to make sure my eighteen idiot rockabilly sons don't come anywhere near the office for the next two weeks. Drive them out to the galactic rim and leave them if you have to, just make sure they don't embarrass our business."
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Jun 20, 2014 11:34
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Am I the only one that can't tell the Lion and Rogal Dorn apart in terms of characterization and the roles they play?
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Jun 20, 2014 13:16
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Sharkie posted:Am I the only one that can't tell the Lion and Rogal Dorn apart in terms of characterization and the roles they play? Yes because they're pretty different? Dorn is stoic yet considered fairly charismatic and (before the heresy) is able to relate to humans on at least some level. The Lion is secretive and cagey and aristocratic (read: distant, haughty) and weird and doesn't get humans at all.
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Jun 20, 2014 13:20
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Actually i know the whole idea of the 'imperial truth' is to starve them of worship and influence, which is fair enough. Still, on reflection you should probably brief ALL the space marines about Chaos. They're not that many of them compared to the mass of humanity and it would leave them much better prepared to face a galaxy full of psychic weirdness and corruption on the great crusade. You could even dress it up as lesser men must be lied too for their own good, but here is the 'noble truth' that only the Astartes, the emperors favourite sons can be trusted with. In fact now i think of it don't one of the human cultures they come across in the early books do this? Everyone recognises the threat and gets fully briefed on Chaos, and how to deal with it. Edit: I'm thinking of the Interex Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 13:25
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Ya interx
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Jun 20, 2014 13:49
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Deptfordx posted:You could even dress it up as lesser men must be lied too for their own good, but here is the 'noble truth' that only the Astartes, the emperors favourite sons can be trusted with It was implied in the earlier fluff that the primarchs knew about it, as they were created to be able to resist it's touch, sadly the Emperor was mistaken. Lately I've been re-reading the older fluff and given some thought about the Horus Heresy series. The Horus Heresy and Chaos in the 40k setting was introduced in 1988, in it's first inception Horus fell to Chaos when he fell ill in the moon of Davin and in his convalescence he was inducted in a warrior lodge, which was secretly a Chaos Coven, and then literally possessed by a demon. This piece of fluff, as far as I know, was never used again in official 40k lore. Immediately after that book, the reason was because the early touch of the warp when they were abducted from the Lunar Labs when they were infants made the Primarchs develop flaws in their characters that the Chaos Powers exploited later to corrupt them. Then, it changed from different phases to "Horus was just corrupted from the beginning" to the more actual "bargained with the chaos gods because he was a power-hungry and had daddy issues". In general, fluff was rewritten more and more intentionally vague with each edition. It's quite curious that BL decided to use the retconned older fluff (sans the demon possession part) for the Horus Heresy series. And that's the thing with fluff nowadays, it's a conglomerate of old and new ideas mashed together. In the Horus Heresy series they are going into certain detail into the background fluff of the setting but with every new plot they introduce, it just gets less coherent, and sometimes can look a bit dumb. This suits GW just fine, this way they can create new toys every time they want without worrying to much about the "canon", but from a storytelling point of view, it's less than desirable, at least in my opinion. It doesn't help that in this series there's so many authors of diverse skill writing about their parts and no formal script exists. It just appear they are all improvising and therefore, many plotlines appear in contradiction to one another. So, I don't try to find explanations to some things, just enjoy the good parts and ignore the bad ones blaming them to bad writing. And in the end, in ADB we trust.
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Jun 20, 2014 14:00
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iminay posted:That really depends on the author. Even for the same Primarchs, in one book Horus can't be looked upon by even his Mournival, and in other books they casually converse and chit chat about (eg: Vengeful Spirit). The longer the series is getting the more inconsistent it is becoming. In The Unremembered Empire there are multiple Primarchs present, yet even the mortals around them seem to be unfazed about being in the same space as them. I think with all these little short stories being pumped out the quality assurance and editing of the Horus Heresy series is taking a nose dive. GW/BL has made a conscious decision to allow the writers to write the Heresy and its characters however they want to, as long as they remain within certain guidelines. The conceit is that we are reading an epic story passed down over a great gulf of time. Imagine you were reading about Troy, but instead of it having been all written down by Homer, chapters were split out and written from the viewpoints of different authors. You're going to have overlap, contradictions, and omissions. Some writers are going to be more uneven than others. Is this decision one I necessarily agree with? No - I view it as a way to cover sloppy editing. But, with it being the decision they made, we have to live with it. Look at is this way - if the writers didn't have freedom to write from their viewpoint, we wouldn't have Abnett's cool Ultramarines or ADB's great characterization of Kharn or his (somewhat) sympathetic Night Lords.
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Jun 20, 2014 14:04
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berzerkmonkey posted:GW/BL has made a conscious decision to allow the writers to write the Heresy and its characters however they want to, as long as they remain within certain guidelines. The conceit is that we are reading an epic story passed down over a great gulf of time. Imagine you were reading about Troy, but instead of it having been all written down by Homer, chapters were split out and written from the viewpoints of different authors. You're going to have overlap, contradictions, and omissions. Some writers are going to be more uneven than others. BTW it's also uncertain whether Homer was an actual person at all, with the poems attributed to him being the result of many generations of oral story-telling that just happened to be written down, and even the written copies probably existed in multiple versions that were combined/codified/standardized into the surviving texts at a later point. With alternative versions also likely often lost or destroyed in the various episodes of burning libraries and looting cities that are a semi-regular occurrence through history.
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Jun 20, 2014 17:38
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An apt comparison for the primarchs would be Jason from Jason and the Argonauts fame, who can be a clever hero destined for glory in Apollonius, to a self-centered dbag out to screw over anyone and everyone in Euripides. DirtyRobot posted:Yes because they're pretty different? Guess I'm just not paying attention then, though yeah I did understand the Lion to be the more spergy of the two. But I am curious about the whole "each primarch has a role to play" thing. What are the theories about the role each one plays, other than the obvious (wolf=executioner, Guilliman = chief executive/administrator)?
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Jun 20, 2014 18:57
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Sharkie posted:An apt comparison for the primarchs would be Jason from Jason and the Argonauts fame, who can be a clever hero destined for glory in Apollonius, to a self-centered dbag out to screw over anyone and everyone in Euripides. Most aren't said, but Massacre put Vulkan as "the teacher" and the wolves put Russ as "the executioner" Of course that whole book was the wolves saying how awesome they are to a guy whose job it is to tell tales of how awesome they are, so the view that all the primarchs have a role and they are the sanction may just be "we are so badass we are the ones sent to take out other space marines  " rather than anything real
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Jun 20, 2014 19:42
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I don't agree that the Primarchs (or even the emperor) at the Heresy time are fully aware of what Chaos entails. There is a definitive knowledge gap between "current" 40k fluff and "horus heresy" era fluff, there is in inquisition yet, no contact with the Eldar black library etc. They know about demons, but I think they don't realize the material influence Chaos has. The Emperor still believes his sons are immune to Chaos from inception, and forbids the use of the Warp with the Edict to protect the Libriarius, not the Primarchs (who still use their powers freely, Russ's lightning etc). Only Magnus and the thousand son's managed to collect enough information to find out the true agenda of Chaos, but ended up being sanctioned. Also, Magnus KNEW about the webway portal, because he honed in on it to get to the Emperor quickly, and knowingly broke the protective barrier. That wasn't an oopsie, he just didn't think far ahead enough about what it would mean if he were to break it.
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Jun 20, 2014 19:57
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