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ASOIAF fandom: held together mostly by schadenfreude
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Jul 4, 2014 19:26
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So I read the two Dance of Dragons short. Basically they're wikipedia articles for something that does not exist, but I still found them surprisingly readable. So yeah.
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Jul 4, 2014 23:42
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InFlames235 posted:At this point I am just glad that there is a TV show they started making about the books. It would have been way worse if he left the last two books unwritten before dying with no one knowing how it ends, but at least we're going to be able to see this through to the end in some sort of medium. I know he's a fat gently caress but he's only 65. He hasn't even had his first heart attack (I think).
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Jul 5, 2014 02:28
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I'd say the fact that he's 65 and a fat gently caress is more just the toppings on top of the fact that he's writing a complex-as-gently caress series of books and doesn't seem to be really interested in grinding them out. Hell I'll even go as far as to say that I get his proclivity to go to football and other short stories/WILD CARDS as a sort-of release from the mind-boggling task he has in front of him, but he still seems genuinely uninterested on top of all of that. The series really does seem more of an obligation/albatross than a joy to him and has been for years.
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Jul 5, 2014 02:31
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mind the walrus posted:I'd say the fact that he's 65 and a fat gently caress is more just the toppings on top of the fact that he's writing a complex-as-gently caress series of books and doesn't seem to be really interested in grinding them out. Hell I'll even go as far as to say that I get his proclivity to go to football and other short stories/WILD CARDS as a sort-of release from the mind-boggling task he has in front of him, but he still seems genuinely uninterested on top of all of that. The series really does seem more of an obligation/albatross than a joy to him and has been for years. I hate to say this.. but GRRM really should just take a year off. Get his poo poo under control. chill on the cons, the new projects, and even ( I hate to say it ) WOW. Get in shape. Chill the gently caress out. Let someone else manage his business affairs. Get his weight and health under control. Have a loving Come to Jesus about this book series and his fame. 1) The books will be finished when they are finished. HBO is gonna beat you to it, just deal. People will always bitch, so gently caress em. 2) Write the books slow as gently caress, over the next 15+ years. Own up to the fact that there will probably be 3+ more books. Focus on enjoying them, crafting them well, and leaving behind an amazing legacy, an epic story that every fantasy nerd will have to read for the next 50 years. 3) Get in shape. Then you can be less stressed, and still fondle all the Con groupies you want. Be your own Lord Frey mother fucker. Die with a titty in each hand. I RESPECT THAT. That is a noble goal, ok? But you gotta chill out to get there. You gotta stop this side project poo poo, and keep the long view. Doesn't that sound so much better than 1000 spin off pieces of crap, and death by poo poo-dick?
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Jul 5, 2014 03:35
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It sounds like he likes writing the spinoff stuff though.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:39
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Well, there's side projects and then there's side projects one the one hand there's Dunk and Egg on the other hand there's all this "An Official Guide to the History of House Redwyne's Undergarments" errata type nonsense I would probably be fine if he forgot the main series entirely and wrote a hundred more Dunk and Egg stories. The problem is how much of the material he's been putting out amounts to nothing but wiki fodder.
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Jul 5, 2014 04:30
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We joke, but seriously: this motherfucker will outlive all of us.
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Jul 5, 2014 06:48
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freypies posted:We joke, but seriously: this motherfucker will outlive all of us. Joking aside, I think the equally valid concern is that if he doesn't finish things up in the next few years, his ability to write well over the course of a long novel may rapidly go downhill. I mean, I wasn't the biggest fan of AFFC or ADWD, but they weren't awful in an objective sense. Would he really be able to keep up a reasonable level of quality over hundreds or thousands of pages when he's 75 or 80?
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Jul 5, 2014 07:17
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People who were young adults when ASOIAF first came out are now reaching middle age. People who have been interested in ASOIAF since day one are now becoming around the same age as GRRM was when his first one came out and as a result, becoming the thing they hate the most, GRRM himself.
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Jul 5, 2014 08:26
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freypies posted:We joke, but seriously: this motherfucker will outlive all of us. What Is Dead May Never Die
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Jul 5, 2014 09:47
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Aurain posted:People who were young adults when ASOIAF first came out are now reaching middle age. People who have been interested in ASOIAF since day one are now becoming around the same age as GRRM was when his first one came out and as a result, becoming the thing they hate the most, GRRM himself. Those people are likely an insignificant part of book readers, never mind franchise fans in general. I don't doubt that the tv series will finish before the books but I'm giving it even money on whether Winds comes out before the relevant season about it (so 2016).
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Jul 5, 2014 14:13
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computer parts posted:Those people are likely an insignificant part of book readers, never mind franchise fans in general. It sounds kinda far away when you say "2016", but we are really talking about ~21 months if the show keeps its current pace, premiering a new season every year at the start of April. I have a hard time thinking that GRRM will have TWoW finished, edited, and published within that timeframe - but stranger things have happened, and I would like to be optimistic  I was thinking about ways for the show to throw GRRM a bone and give him some extra time in a way that's not totally ridiculous. The idea of a "Dunk and Egg season" or something along those lines is totally ridiculous, and I think we all agree that there's only a season or so of material left based on what GRRM has written and what the show has covered. But at the same time, that's assuming a lot of things, like that the show doesn't spend more time in places that we didn't expect (maybe someplace like Oldtown?) or suddenly gives us more new material regarding Dorne and the Iron Islands that we had assumed they would be cutting. But even considering that, we're still talking about a season and a half of material, at most. Something that I thought wasn't totally unrealistic would be if they perhaps decided to do a pair of "shortened" seasons maybe with 6-7 episodes each, with a shorter gap between the two. This is something that several other shows (Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Lost to a certain degree) have done when faced with a limited amount of material remaining, and interests that wanted to stretch the life/profitability of said material as much as it could. In most of the cases it happened in the final season, but GoT is in a fairly unique situation. Of course, this is assuming that HBO cares at all about giving GRRM more time. But it's actually something that has precedent to some degree (in this network even) and probably makes more money, in addition to giving GRRM a bit more time. It also actually comes closer to matching the bifurcated structure of AFFC/ADWD, and solves the problem of allowing each their own "season" despite neither having enough remaining material to flesh out an entire season. edit: If they actually did this man oh man would Season 5 Part 1 be the most awful boring crap ever committed to film. Good thing it's just a silly message board idea. What would your cliffhanger be? Jon Snow.... Making Satin his Steward! Tyrion Lannister... Losing a match of cyvasse! Daenarys Targaryen.... thinking about whether she should marry Hizdahr for the third time! kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 14:50
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If they do a D&E series it'll be after the main series finishes. This'll be fine for all parties though because GRRM gets  and HBO gets  for a story that's more or less completed already and can be churned out in a 1-2 season thing.
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Jul 5, 2014 15:01
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computer parts posted:If they do a D&E series it'll be after the main series finishes. This'll be fine for all parties though because GRRM gets It would be pretty awesome if they actually did this, I think we can all agree. I sort of imagine it as a mini-series, though - seems to make more sense that way. Each Dunk and Egg story feels like either a really long movie, or like a multi-episode arc of a television show, you know? Thing is, the stories feel much more episodic in nature than the ASoIaF books. I mean, they follow a linear timeline obviously, and one story leads to the next one more or less, but each story also feels like it wraps up its own little narrative - it's one of the great things about them. With a sort of mini-series format you could give each story like 3-4 hours and it'd make sense. kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 15:12
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The idea that the show would spend more time in Dorne--especially if it's an all new set they built from scratch, isn't actually that crazy. It's actually pretty reasonable. They've got to recoup that capital expense somehow
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Jul 5, 2014 15:20
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visceril posted:The idea that the show would spend more time in Dorne--especially if it's an all new set they built from scratch, isn't actually that crazy. They also have the popularity of Oberyn to cash in on.
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Jul 5, 2014 16:09
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TK-42-1 posted:They also have the popularity of Oberyn to cash in on. The only thing that might stop them from doing that is the concern that not enough what happened to the main characters we care about. But next season should bring us the myrish swamp, as well as a bunch of hot sexy female Oberyns, so I'm sure HBO has plenty of material to work with EDIT: speaking of myrish swamps, what's the over/under on us getting to see the fat pink mast in HD in season 5 or 6? visceril fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 16:50
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there is no way HBO is not going to cash in on all the loving they get to contrive with Arianne and the Sand Snakes around. All of the gratuitous sex scenes in Dorne will probably account for an episode's worth of content by themselves, and that's without getting into Cersei's weird sex-war against Margaery. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 16:59
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TK-42-1 posted:They also have the popularity of Oberyn to cash in on.  No worries on that front, my friend.
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Jul 5, 2014 19:46
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They still have to give the real characters something to do so the actors don't jump ship.
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Jul 5, 2014 19:55
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is that a real risk? How do their contracts work?
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Jul 5, 2014 20:03
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No clue but we're on third Hound/second Tommen for example, so clearly they don't lock their cells very well. And it happens in plenty other series that actors go AWOL. Realistically, if they really want to leave, what can you do?
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Jul 5, 2014 20:16
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Kuiperdolin posted:No clue but we're on third Hound/second Tommen for example, so clearly they don't lock their cells very well. And it happens in plenty other series that actors go AWOL. Realistically, if they really want to leave, what can you do? They replaced Tommen because child actors are terrible. The Mountain is debatable but that's been a unique clusterfuck so far.
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Jul 5, 2014 20:26
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The Mountain and Tommen are pretty inconsequential roles, though, ultimately. The Mountain barely has any lines and is always in full plate armor that can obscure differences in physique and body-language. You just need a sufficiently big and imposing dude to show up periodically and you're fine. Tommen had nothing at all to do prior to this season. I would think they've got things sewn up tighter with the principle actors. I don't think that, say, Kit Harrington can go "I'm not satisfied with the pace of Jon Snow's narrative progression this season. I think I'll leave," without running into at least some legal trouble. And anyway, that's presuming that the loss of those actors was due to the actors themselves rather than studio decisions. I can think of some compelling reasons to deliberately re-cast either of them. (Up-aging Tommen so that it's less creepy when Margaery applies her Wiles, up-scaling the Mountain because the super-tall but skinny Ian Whyte might have had trouble handling the immense weight of the Mountain's equipment in a major fight scene). I am admittedly curious about Daario, who is a ~kind of~ important character I guess. Particularly with the new guy doing his best Jason-Momoa's-Delivery-In-Stargate-Atlantis immitation.
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Jul 5, 2014 20:45
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computer parts posted:The Mountain is [...] a unique clusterfuck so far. 
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Jul 5, 2014 21:10
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For important characters, presumably they were locked into reasonable contracts for 6 or 7 seasons. There's no way a major production like this would get going with the threat of having to re-sign actors every single year, which would let the actors effectively hold the production hostage with ever-rising contract asking prices. Similarly, actors are't going to sign on to a show for "however many seasons you guys want to make", because that's absurd and they don't want to be forced to keep going back to Iceland to film in 2020 or whatever. If HBO stalls because ratings are good and they want to make more money then the original contracts will run out and they'll have to pay Kit Harrington et al. absurd sums of money to keep them onboard. There isn't that concern for minor characters like Tommen because it's absurd to write up that kind of contract. 8 year old child actor Tommen The First isn't going to sign a 7 year contract that involves him standing around saying no lines for the first three years with no opportunity to jump ship, nor does the studio care about locking up an 8 year old the audience literally won't remember, especially because they have no idea what kind of acting ability or appearance changes he'll have undergone by the time he actually has a speaking role. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 21:23
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:
I don't get how Dorne even matters anymore. Seems like they could cut the whole loving country, and the plot wouldn't be impacted in the slightest.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:33
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kcroy posted:I don't get how Dorne even matters anymore. Seems like they could cut the whole loving country, and the plot wouldn't be impacted in the slightest. All the Dorne poo poo basically exists to tell you that they are not happy with the current situation. So yeah you can trim that poo poo down fairly easily.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:52
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CharlestheHammer posted:All the Dorne poo poo basically exists to tell you that they are not happy with the current situation. So yeah you can trim that poo poo down fairly easily. So you wanna play with magic Boy you should know what you're fallin' for Baby do you dare to do this 'Cause I'm comin' at you like a Darkstar
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Jul 5, 2014 23:10
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kcroy posted:I don't get how Dorne even matters anymore. Seems like they could cut the whole loving country, and the plot wouldn't be impacted in the slightest. it's mostly that Dorne is the most stable support-base any of the contenders to the throne could win at this point. It hasn't been ravaged by conflict like the Riverlands, the North, the Stormlands and the Crownlands. Hasn't expended tons of resources trying to advance/retain its position like the Westerlands and the Reach. Isn't undergoing a crisis of leadership like the Vale. It's the one place that still has all of its armies, treasuries, crops and leadership intact. Eventually this is all gonna erupt into conflict again, and, when it does, Dorne is going to be important because half of the other regions are in no position to fight or do much of anything anytime soon. A lot of us would be glad if the teevee show cut out the Aegon plot entirely, sure, but that ain't gonna happen, and potential Dornish support looms large there (as well as in the inevitable conflict between Aegon and Daenarys). It is true that much of the Dornish content in AFFC/ADWD boils down to "Arianne flounces/lounges/pouts in her chambers", and this can be cut down significantly (along with the inexplicable Hotah PoV sections), but I reckon it's important to at least establish what the Dornish have been up to and what their plans are.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:21
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Dorne is also the only region that dragons couldn't conquer. They have the unique position of being unconquered and still in full strength after the war of five kings. Dorne and the Vale are the last great pillars of strength in Westeros.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:20
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Tsyni posted:So you wanna play with magic There's no going back.
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Jul 6, 2014 03:04
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He's a beast I call him Gregor He'll cut your ear off Like cousin Gerold
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Jul 6, 2014 04:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:All the Dorne poo poo basically exists to tell you that they are not happy with the current situation. So yeah you can trim that poo poo down fairly easily. PupsOfWar posted:It is true that much of the Dornish content in AFFC/ADWD boils down to "Arianne flounces/lounges/pouts in her chambers", and this can be cut down significantly (along with the inexplicable Hotah PoV sections), but I reckon it's important to at least establish what the Dornish have been up to and what their plans are. TK-42-1 posted:Dorne is also the only region that dragons couldn't conquer. They have the unique position of being unconquered and still in full strength after the war of five kings. Dorne and the Vale are the last great pillars of strength in Westeros. I'm thinking 1 letter, or exposition by Varys would do the trick. I wish I could see the outlines for the next 3 seasons. I'll make one I guess: Season 5: Arya: L2Kill Sansa: L2Play the Game / Marries Bran: L2Tree / Gains critical skill Jon: L2Lord Commander / Dies Stannis: At war up north Dany: lovely Ruler Tyrion: Riding Pig Victorian: Introduced Others: New info given/hinted at Dorne: Lesbians and "Fire and Blood" Season 6: Arya: Graduates / Sent to kill [sansa/jon] Sansa: Vengeance on Lannisport set up Bran: Tree levels up / can control time / secrets revealed Jon: Reborn / new tasks / Nights King Stannis: Fights a lot / Betrayed Dany: Leader Reborn / controls dragons / leaves for Westeros Tyrion: Mercenary / Meets up with Dany / heading back to westeros. Victorian: Dies / We learn about horn Others: Wall falls Dorne: Throws their support somewhere Season 7: Arya: Kills Jaime. Lives in wilderness alone with Nymeria Sansa: Queen in the North / Kills Little Finger Bran: Saves the world somehow. Trips Balls in endless tree dream Jon: King north of the Wall / Possibly Undead / Or just Dead Stannis: Dead / Betrayed Dany: Queen in Lannisport / Alternate: goes mad / is killed Tyrion: King in Casterly Rock Others: Banished for another 1000 years under Jon's benevolent rule kcroy fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 05:57
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I think you got that wrong. GRRM likes to subvert expectations. Right now our expectations are that Jon and Dany will have some huge impact on the story and how it ends, so he will subvert that by having them do nothing and Victarion will rule Westeros. "But maybe GRRM is expecting us to expect him to subvert our expectations!" you say, "and he actually will make Dany and Jon relevant." Wrong, I say, because at this point GRRM expects us to expect that we will expect him to expect us to expect that he will subvert our expectations. Therefore: he will subvert our subverted expectations by having Jon and Dany die obscurely in the background as previously unknown characters are introduced and go on to complete the story.
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Jul 6, 2014 06:01
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lannisport is a trade city casterly rock is the seat of the westerlands
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Jul 6, 2014 06:05
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Blind Sally posted:I think you got that wrong. GRRM likes to subvert expectations. Right now our expectations are that Jon and Dany will have some huge impact on the story and how it ends, so he will subvert that by having them do nothing and Victarion will rule Westeros. "But maybe GRRM is expecting us to expect him to subvert our expectations!" you say, "and he actually will make Dany and Jon relevant." Wrong, I say, because at this point GRRM expects us to expect that we will expect him to expect us to expect that he will subvert our expectations. Therefore: he will subvert our subverted expectations by having Jon and Dany die obscurely in the background as previously unknown characters are introduced and go on to complete the story. He has to stop subverting poo poo at some point. The only expectations he's going to blow up right now are that he can finish this.
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Jul 6, 2014 06:07
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Blind Sally posted:I think you got that wrong. GRRM likes to subvert expectations. Right now our expectations are that Jon and Dany will have some huge impact on the story and how it ends, so he will subvert that by having them do nothing and Victarion will rule Westeros. "But maybe GRRM is expecting us to expect him to subvert our expectations!" you say, "and he actually will make Dany and Jon relevant." Wrong, I say, because at this point GRRM expects us to expect that we will expect him to expect us to expect that he will subvert our expectations. Therefore: he will subvert our subverted expectations by having Jon and Dany die obscurely in the background as previously unknown characters are introduced and go on to complete the story. He doesn't really. Read his other poo poo - it all ends exactly how you think it would, with minor variations. GOT is just darker than the usual fare. You know what wont happen? Stannis or the Lannisters running everything and slaughtering all the Starks. Subverting a trope only goes so far.
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Jul 6, 2014 06:07
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jsoh posted:lannisport is a trade city casterly rock is the seat of the westerlands you are right tyrion ends up with casterly rock. edited.
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Jul 6, 2014 06:08
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