|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The best scene in this entire series is when Hodor's manhood hangs long and heavy, glistening in the morning sunlight. Aye, there's some giant's blood in him for sure. I still love how poorly staged it was in the show too. You could practically hear the director yelling at the actor to get on and off the set.
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 03:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:26 |
|
|
Darkstar, and his famous line.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 03:46
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Darkstar, and his famous line. Ah, yes. The old: “I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it." Man, people have been saying that line for years and years.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 04:11
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:Ah, yes. The old: I was talking about his I am the night, but you are right, saying it is only one is a disservice to the Star.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The best scene in this entire series is when Hodor's manhood hangs long and heavy, glistening in the morning sunlight. Aye, there's some giant's blood in him for sure. ClearAirTurbulence posted:No scene beats The Shittening. CharlestheHammer posted:Darkstar, and his famous line. Too many great scenes to choose from! I am reminded why GRRM is considered to be the American Tolkien!
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 04:29
|
|
|
Even if it was totally unearned, Varys' speech about maybe having a good king for once got me hyped.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 05:00
|
|
|
American Tolkien is kind of apt if you really put the emphasis on American and all the baggage it can possibly bring as a descriptor
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 05:01
|
|
|
My favorite has always been when Arya is passing by banners marked with the signs of Umbers and Starks and she hear's men toasting to the marriage between Edmure and the Frey girl, then she hears someone raise their glass to King Robb and Queen Jeyne. Ever since Ned was captured by Cersei in the chamber room and their household guard slaughtered, Arya was never closer to safety and to men who were truly loyal to her and would do anything to keep her safe. She wants to join them, but the Hound refuses and the wagon plods along to its inevitable conclusion. Then those men cheering Robb and his queen are burned alive when the tents go up in flames or slaughtered in the drunken confusion that follows. And this after victory and victory in the battlefield. For me, it was it the great GURM's mightiest blow because I felt the Northern army was a character as much as Robb or Ned and the following chapter where Arya witnessed the systematic destruction of the army was a thousand different wounds. There's plenty of moments like this in the books and, even if he produces nothing more to the series, he's honestly contributed shocking amounts of quality to the literary world. It gets lost in the grandness of his scope, but it doesn't mean it's not there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 05:46
|
|
|
jsoh posted:frey pies and arya playing sansa in the in universe play about the first three books are pretty cool things. [How to Serve Freys] IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK! visceril posted:
That thread is loving amazing. 3Romeo posted:
Thanks - hadn't really thought of it before, but yeah. camera v camera. 3Romeo posted:They're the second act of a story, and poo poo's supposed to get complicated, but second acts also generally end on a pivot that takes the story into act three, and almost every pivot (the Battle of Winterfell, the Battle of Mereen, Cersei's trial by combat, Jaime's brush with Stoneheart, the poo poo going on down at the Citadel) got pushed forward. I mean, there were some good turns and some good setups (Jon's stabbing; the start of Davos' quest to find Rickon), but too much went unanswered. They feel like a loving TV show, where more poo poo gets thrown in, because you just got renewed for another 2 seasons. I'm sorry, but when Yung Aegon showed up, I was like "loving C'MON ALREADY". I mean poo poo, why not throw in some loving amnesia too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 05:50
|
|
I guess I was wrong to stop reading wild cards after fortunato. Imma head on overto that thread now peace
|
Brother Friendship posted:My favorite has always been when Arya is passing by banners marked with the signs of Umbers and Starks and she hear's men toasting to the marriage between Edmure and the Frey girl, then she hears someone raise their glass to King Robb and Queen Jeyne. Ever since Ned was captured by Cersei in the chamber room and their household guard slaughtered, Arya was never closer to safety and to men who were truly loyal to her and would do anything to keep her safe. She wants to join them, but the Hound refuses and the wagon plods along to its inevitable conclusion. Then those men cheering Robb and his queen are burned alive when the tents go up in flames or slaughtered in the drunken confusion that follows. And this after victory and victory in the battlefield. For me, it was it the great GURM's mightiest blow because I felt the Northern army was a character as much as Robb or Ned and the following chapter where Arya witnessed the systematic destruction of the army was a thousand different wounds. This scene is great. gently caress the Freys/Boltons; they deserve whatever the hell comes their way. Lady Stoneheart is the least evil person in Westeros.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 05:56
|
|
|
Sean Bean is doing an AMA on Reddit and well,No More Heroes posted:
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 06:17
|
|
|
Has anyone said myrish swamp yet? That was a good scene.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 06:31
|
|
|
ZShakespeare posted:Has anyone said myrish swamp yet? That was a good scene. sticky princes scene made me embarrassed for GRRM. Or maybe I just haven't met the kind of women who swallows _because_ they hate a guy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 10:27
|
|
|
Maybe because it's surrounded by so much literal poo poo, but Barristan's POV at the end of Dance was great. You can practically hear GURRM going 'gently caress, I should have thought of this earlier'.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 11:16
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:Maybe because it's surrounded by so much literal poo poo, but Barristan's POV at the end of Dance was great. You can practically hear GURRM going 'gently caress, I should have thought of this earlier'. The Dany parts from Storm onward would have been much better told by him than Dany.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 15:25
|
|
|
I'm sure there are others I like more, but the one that immediately jumps to mind is Jaime reading Cersei's letter and then just throwing it in the fire and resuming his business.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
Another great "gently caress YEAH" moment was when Jon was executing Janos Slynt, the man who held Ned's head down and also betrayed him personally. GRRM actually did a pretty great job of setting that up with Jon being honorable and giving Janos tons of outs to save his own skin, and then starts to execute him in what I assume is the typical Night's Watch manner - hanging from the top of the wall. But then Jon stops them (hilariously making Janos think he is being given a reprieve) and gets a chopping block out and draws Longclaw, and uh, yeah. You just so rarely see any kind of "poetic justice" moments in these books, I mean, it just doesn't happen. It's a nasty filthy unforgiving world. I do wonder whether Jon was aware of the hand that Slynt played in his father's execution, or more pointedly the aforementioned role he played alongside Littlefinger in betraying Ned.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
The Hound vs. Beric Dondarrion is my favorite scene. The Hound was my favorite non-POV character and it was great to see him finally get some amount of redemption for all the poo poo he's been through. That moment when the sword lights on fire from Beric's own blood, drat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:The Dany parts from Storm onward would have been much better told by him than Dany. gently caress, this could have saved her entire character arc
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
TryAgainBragg posted:gently caress, this could have saved her entire character arc Exactly, stop giving her POV chapters when she is nearing her strongest, have her slow descent into madness be told by someone else. It goes extra-well with my belief that she is being set up as an antagonist but she might not be.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
The House of The Undying was really neat in the books. GRRM's usage of magic and magicians in general is probably the thing about this series I most consistently like. I vaguely resent fantasy authors who insist on having clearly-defined D&D-esque ~systems~ for the magic in their series. We've got sci-fi for that. Magic should be unpredictable, inscrutable and probably vaguely sinister.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 23:17
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:The House of The Undying was really neat in the books. GRRM's usage of magic and magicians in general is probably the thing about this series I most consistently like. I actually really love this about the book, that magic is... Well, for one thing, GRRM takes this fantasy conceit that Magic is something of the old world, that drains away as Man stabilizes the world with science and technology. It's a conceit that comes straight outta Tolkien, really. The last of the elves leaving from the Grey Havens and the Age of Men beginning, that whole thing. But I do like that GRRM turns this on its head a bit, and instead has magic re-infusing itself into the world, somehow. But there seems to be as many forms and types of magic as there are people and cultures, and no two are like. We've met so many characters that I would characterize as highly magical. Just off the top of my head... Melisandre, Moqorro, Benerro, Thoros, Pyat Pree, Qyburn, Marwyn the Mage, Mirri Maz Duor, arguably Jaqen and the Faceless Men, Quaithe, Maggy the Frog, The Ghost of High Heart, Bloodraven... Jesus. I'm probably even forgetting some. And seriously, all of these characters seem to have their own kind of magic going on that they appear to practice or specialize in. There are certainly links and parallels between certain characters on that list. My favorite example of this is when Tyrion contracts some of Aerys' old pyromancers to make more wildfire in ACoK, and they wind up making a good deal more than the most generous estimates that they gave Tyrion. Being an intelligent man, Tyrion obviously assumes they are cheating him and giving him worthless bottles of wildfire, but the pyromancer tries to explain that certain spells in lore-books that used to never work, or would barely work, now appear to be working splendidly well. Tyrion isn't sure he buys it, but this is actually the truth, as I understand it. God, why do I keep making these effort-posts? I should really shut my brain down until February with regard to this stuff. Instead, I've been reading that goddamn Winterfell Huis Clos thing which is barely readable but still. What is wrong with me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
kaworu posted:magic re-infusing itself into the world, somehow. Doesn't someone imply it's because Dragons exist again, or is it just implied via timing?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
TryAgainBragg posted:Doesn't someone imply it's because Dragons exist again, or is it just implied via timing? I read it as the comet started the resurgence which lead to the dragons being awoken. But it could also be the Others coming back from whatever the gently caress they've been doing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
Something about the comet, I thought. Maybe the big reveal will be that it's aliens. White walkers and Westerosi must put aside their differences to fight an extraterrestrial threat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:36
|
|
TryAgainBragg posted:Doesn't someone imply it's because Dragons exist again, or is it just implied via timing? The dragons seem to be a consequence of it, rather than the cause, despite the implication in the books otherwise. Mirri Maz Duur's blood magic was at least partially responsible for the dragons' rebirth, after all, and the return of the Others certainly preceded the eggs even coming into Dany's possession.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:37
|
|
|
kaworu posted:God, why do I keep making these effort-posts? I should really shut my brain down until February with regard to this stuff. quote:Instead, I've been reading that goddamn Winterfell Huis Clos thing which is barely readable but still. What is wrong with me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:38
|
|
|
Octopode posted:The dragons seem to be a consequence of it, rather than the cause, despite the implication in the books otherwise. Mirri Maz Duur's blood magic was at least partially responsible for the dragons' rebirth, after all, and the return of the Others certainly preceded the eggs even coming into Dany's possession. I guess I chalked that up to different types of "magic" like the faceless men and stuff, but this is as good theory as any
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
TryAgainBragg posted:I guess I chalked that up to different types of "magic" like the faceless men and stuff, but this is as good theory as any There appears to be two main types of magic - Ice (what the Others use, derives from ???) and Fire (what everyone save for maybe the Children of the Forest use, derives from Dragons). There's little evidence that the Others were relevant within the past few thousand years and the dragons died out like a century before the events of the first book, so maybe both had to die so they could be reborn.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
Derives from dragons, or derives from R'hllor?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:31
|
|
Lycus posted:Derives from dragons, or derives from R'hllor? That's pretty hard to say. Thoros seems to be evidence for the dragons, since he was basically a sham prior to them, but then again, the cult of R'hllor definitely seems to have had something going on before them. Maybe Thoros was just barely competent before, and the rising tide of magic returning in general lifted his boat up to competence, magic-wise.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:36
|
|
|
R'hllor is a dragon. THE Dragon, in fact.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
one thing that's always been kinda curious to me is that the Targaryens seemingly did not bring any kind of valyrian religion of their own to Westeros. They just said "The Seven? Alright, let's go with what the Andal barbarians believe I guess" to the point of holding Aegon's coronation in the Starry Sept. Interesting not because I think it's ~unrealistic or anything (many conquerors convert to a conquered people's faith) but because I wonder if R'hllorism dates back long enough to have been around when Valyria was a thing. If it did, you'd think it could've gained a major following there. Or is R'hllorism just another Essosi institution that exists as a futile attempt to recapture the glory days of the freehold? Or are they completely unrelated? basically I'm wondering whether the targaryens' Dragon poo poo and the red priesthood's Fire poo poo actually share a common ancestry or just happen to share a lot of aesthetic and rhetorical similarities (which one might or might not have borrowed from the other).
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:03
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:one thing that's always been kinda curious to me is that the Targaryens seemingly did not bring any kind of valyrian religion of their own to Westeros. They just said "The Seven? Alright, let's go with what the Andal barbarians believe I guess" to the point of holding Aegon's coronation in the Starry Sept. Aegon the Conqueror's dragons were named after the Valyrian gods so I doubt they're really that related. Aegon in general seemed pretty neutral about the whole religion thing (like another Lord of Dragonstone we know), he just wanted to unite the Seven Kingdoms.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:31
|
|
|
It can be compared to many examples of rulers converting to the religion of a newly conquered people, the closest example I can think of being Clovis of the Franks converting to Christianity to get the loyalty of his wife and the Gallo-Roman nobility, which set the stage for Charlemange later.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 03:29
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:Magic should be unpredictable, inscrutable and probably vaguely sinister. I disagree, I really like magic being defined. Mistborn has a very, very strict set of magics, and the story functions beautifully because of that. You know exactly what any given misting can do, where it comes from, and how it works. That's wonderful to read. I also really like how the Malazan system is broken down, that certain holds and houses lend themselves more to certain uses by their nature as "other dimensions from which magical power flows". Really, for me, the important part is that the magic system (and this is important for scifi's technomagics, as well) be consistant, and that you as a reader can grasp why it works the way it does for the story to resolve how it has done. I hate the feeling of the author pulling a solution out of their rear end which an inscrutable, amorphous system creates by its nature. That's like reversing the polarity of the tachyon stream to disrupt the temporal flux the ship is caught it; it's just obvious bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 04:44
|
|
|
Otoh, i don't want to read a strategy guide for mtg when I thought I had purchased a novel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
And that's fine, too. Jim Butcher's Dresden novels handle it pretty well, I think, where you get a firm grasp of how Dresden's magic works, but it's almost always through him performing the magic at the time. And it's consistant across the books, things like how he doesn't need a blasting rod to conjure fireballs, but it's much safer to use one; to drive the point home, he'll lose the rod in a dangerous situation and be forced to conjure some fire, and it nearly incinerates the entire building he's in or something. His rules for potion-making are also pretty firmly laid out, with enough wiggle room to keep you wondering what Harry's going to make a potion with this time. The creativity you can find by operating within defined limits can be far more entertaining than a vague and limitless system.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 04:57
|
|
|
kaworu posted:You just so rarely see any kind of "poetic justice" moments in these books, I mean, it just doesn't happen. It's a nasty filthy unforgiving world. Another "gently caress yeah" execution I liked was Rickard Karstark, or rather his men that are hung before he is beheaded. I like how the one guy protests that all he did was keep watch while they killed the squires, he didn't actually harm anyone, and then Robb says that, since he only watched, he is to be hung last so he can watch the others hang.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 05:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:26 |
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I disagree, I really like magic being defined. Mistborn has a very, very strict set of magics, and the story functions beautifully because of that. You know exactly what any given misting can do, where it comes from, and how it works. That's wonderful to read. I also really like how the Malazan system is broken down, that certain holds and houses lend themselves more to certain uses by their nature as "other dimensions from which magical power flows". A magic system can operate without any clear, explicit in-universe rules or logic and still be satisfying to read, as long as it respects laws of narrative logic and weight. I think people often call this numinous magic. Earthsea is a pretty great example. Malazan is probably closer to this too. Harry Potter is generally really bad at this but it contains a few easy examples to point to. Harry's mom gives up her life to try to save him, and this grants him a kind of lasting protection, not because she cast Baby Defender IV (prestige class: Mom) but because the magic 'system' mirrors and respects the emotional act of sacrifice. e: Fairy tales and myths generally work this way too: magic occurs as a result of bargains, sacrifices, passion, rage, transgressions of the natural or civil order, so on. The orcs don't come into Lothlorien because it's forbidden to them; the Ring is powerful and desirable because it grants a twisted kind of greatness, not because it lets the user cast Force Push or Destroy Fortifications. more dumb e: Specifically I feel that you are correct, bullshit technobabble magic solutions are terrible, but that you don't always need a rigorously defined magic system to avoid this problem, because stories already contain logic and a set of powerful costs in the shape of the wounds the writer inflicts on the characters. Ged pays a terrible price to solve the problem at the end of The Farthest Shore, and we understand why without needing a Magic System to explain it to us: he burnt himself out to fix the world. I think that strict magic systems vs. bullshit magic technobabble is a false dichotomy. General Battuta fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Aug 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 07:08
|
|
