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Theoretically, I think the death match could have worked out really interestingly - if one of the five was leaking information to the two on the outside, I think it could have stalled to 11 turns forcing someone to take 3 bombs before someone got three constellations, and when the leak becomes apparent then it's a whole new game. Really, if there was any arrangement other than two people who are viewed as huge threats compared to the rest of the field, I don't think it's so cut and dry.
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Nov 18, 2014 06:06
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:19 |
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A leak is easy to fix: have Yoohyun tell each other player of the team of 5 what number to pick. It's also quite easy to defend against "try to get someone to get 3 bombs" because it's impossible to get a bomb if your number is 1,2 or 3. If you have 2 bombs, only pick 1, 2 or 3. So worst case scenario for team of 5 is : after 9 rounds, bombs are divided 2-2-2-2-1. At that point, each member of the team of 5 has around 11 stars each (and DongHyun team has 0 star). If by some insane amount of luck, no one in the team of 5 can end right away (which is almost impossible), you can still win easily : Just tell the 3 players closest to winning to pick 1-2-3, and tell the other two to both pick 4. Now you can't die to bombs, and will be able to win in a round or two. This whole strategy works even if DongHyun have perfect information. Running With Spoons fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 06:40
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Subyng posted:Dongmin was just loving  ^ Apologies for the quality, 'twas babbys first gif. This is the first episode of this season that I've found interesting and it was entirely because of Dongmin. He's like a more cut-throat Sangmin. I just adored that scene of him circling the majority group and Hyunmin playing his straight man. When they showed the two-hours later flash forward, I was afraid that the black mission was successful and Hyunmin's maiden tears were because he was forced to take Dongmin out. There needs to be rabble rousers in the group, right up to the end. Next episode should be great because Dongmin's gonna be so vengeful!  His face when Hyungmin was picked for Death Match instead of him...I wish Ahyoung would just do something rather than get stressed out and side with whoever intimidates her the most. She has genuinely great moments (her laughter echoing through the set is the best) but I was pretty annoyed how everyone (herself, too) agrees that she's dead weight. But then again, I haven't liked any of these Main Matches, except for the super powers game, maybe. There's too much sitting around in the rooms or in the main hall and not enough movement / wacky hijinx. My favourite games were ones where players had to move around, like the Layoff Game in which they had to tag people with those stickers or the Zombie game that had the antidote gimmick. The Food Chain game, too, where they had to keep changing rooms. Can we have season 4 as an all-stars lineup, like the most memorable characters from s1-s3? Like s1 would be Jinho, Sunggyu, Sangmin, Kyungran, and s2 would be Junghyun, Yohwan, Hong Chul, Jiwon, and s3 would be Hweejong, Dongmin, Hyunmin, and Ahyoung.
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Nov 18, 2014 08:26
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Please do not bring Yohwan and Jiwon back.
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Nov 18, 2014 08:56
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Park Jiyoon and Jun Hyunmoo from Crime Scene would make great additions to the next season. Jihyo might even make a great addition since she's incredibly sharp and ruthless, but may not be willing to risk her image. Open casting yeilded pretty good results even if Kyunghoon bombed out. He seemed like he would have been decent during the midgame. Also dealer nuna needs to join the season 4 cast.
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Nov 18, 2014 09:14
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After this episode I'm ready to admit that Hyungmin and Dongmin are just the best players and probably deserve to go to the final together. On the other hand, part of me wants Yeonseung and Ahyoung to end up there instead and just spend the entire 90 minutes bashfully apologizing to each other for being an inconvenience. I was very disappointed that Jongbeom screwed up his black mission, not only because I was able to do it* but because he was starting to emerge as an actually interesting player. Oh well. I agree with the above poster who missed the more active games. This season most games have seemed like little more than a backdrop to the personal politicking of the players, which makes the whole show seem much more like any other reality program than it has in the past. *I used the first ten seconds to create a dumb mnemonic device for the first letters of the words, and the next twenty seconds to remember what words the letters stood for, disassociated from the order. When the dealer laid out the cards I was able to name them all.
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Nov 18, 2014 09:56
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The memory game was made even more difficult by the long time between when the 30 seconds were up and the moment the first card had to be named. They should have done it on a screen with the first random card appearing immediately after the 30 seconds were up. I was really rooting for Jongbeom to make it and send Dongmin to the deathmatch. Followed by the reveal Dongmin had swindled a third black garnet somehow to do his own black mission. I can't wait to see what Ahyoung will be so smug about. But looking at how good the editors have been at showing stuff without context to generate a false impression it may be nothing. More then once they showed a 'in two hours' of players crying in what looked like defeat but it turned out to be them winning and feeling bad about it.
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Nov 18, 2014 10:09
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The translated BTS is out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XDhf_6hJmk The cards did not glow in the dark, but I could see why one would get that impression from the visuals of the video. If you go to around the 10 minute point into the episode where they're explaining the rules, you can just barely make out the markings, and confirm them once they flip the cards to the other side. Also, this video of Hyunmin dancing to TVXQ's Spellbound has surfaced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGkq9Ru-qq8. I always thought he looked a bit like an idol, and now I know he's got the dance moves of one as well.
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Nov 18, 2014 11:30
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I'd feel bad for Hyunmin's crying if he didn't let an evil smirk every time Jongbum blundered in the shogi-like game. Hyunmin was a dumbass for spilling his Plan To Make Someone Last™ before securing a solid group and deserved going to the death match for this mistake imo. It was kind of funny how Mentality King was last with them and I was ready to poo poo my pants if Yeonjoo indicated him to the death match to clear up with Hyunmin/Dongmin.
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Nov 18, 2014 15:27
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So that was a simple shogi variant, a game which goes all the way up to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taikyoku_shogiquote:Each player has a set of 402 wedge-shaped pieces of 209 types. The players must remember 253 sets of moves. 
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Nov 18, 2014 15:34
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^^^ I love the names of some of the pieces like Cat Sword, Blind Dog, Lion Hawk and Drunken Elephant. I looked around and this is the shogi variant that they used: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%8Dbutsu_sh%C5%8Dgi. Neat stuff. I wonder if they'll use it again and if some of the better players will memorize a few opening sequences for it. It was heavily implied that Dongmin destroyed Hyunmin when they were training for the match.
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Nov 18, 2014 22:52
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It seems like the opening move advantage is really strong, so Jongbeom must have been making some pretty big blunders for Hyunmin to turn it around so quickly.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:26
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You knew he was gonna lose that black mission when they committed to super slow-mo reveals for all the cards.
Hat Thoughts fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 23:55
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CeeJee posted:So that was a simple shogi variant, a game which goes all the way up to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taikyoku_shogi Jesus Christ, I can barely keep the regular shogi piece movements straight. This is the board setup:  Zythrst posted:It seems like the opening move advantage is really strong, so Jongbeom must have been making some pretty big blunders for Hyunmin to turn it around so quickly. Opening move advantage is huge in symmetrical games in general. I could tell by the small set of possible moves that it especially a problem for this variant. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 00:23
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Highly Unnecessary posted:Death match spoilers.
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Nov 19, 2014 00:53
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Random Stranger posted:Jesus Christ, I can barely keep the regular shogi piece movements straight. My new goal in life is to figure out how to play this game and then play it.
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Nov 19, 2014 00:59
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I don't like games where people get frozen out. I feel like a lot of games this season end up being team games with targeted losers which kind of sucks. Even the mine game where Bandage Sniffer said "this is not a team game" ended up being a team game. Where are the amazing individual wins? I NEED MY EXTREME WAYS. That said, Dongmin is pretty funny.
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Nov 19, 2014 01:10
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Factor Mystic posted:I don't like games where people get frozen out. I feel like a lot of games this season end up being team games with targeted losers which kind of sucks. Even the mine game where Bandage Sniffer said "this is not a team game" ended up being a team game. Where are the amazing individual wins? I NEED MY EXTREME WAYS. The games this season seem to really reward alliances.
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Nov 19, 2014 01:42
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I was anti-Hyunmin at first, but him and Dongmin's "we're clearly the best, right?" alliance is the best.
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Nov 19, 2014 01:45
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Zythrst posted:It seems like the opening move advantage is really strong, so Jongbeom must have been making some pretty big blunders for Hyunmin to turn it around so quickly. Wiki claims that for this version of shogi opening move is actually a disadvantage.
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Nov 19, 2014 01:48
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Zythrst posted:It seems like the opening move advantage is really strong, so Jongbeom must have been making some pretty big blunders for Hyunmin to turn it around so quickly. wikipedia posted:Dōbutsu shōgi has been strongly solved, meaning that the theoretical best move from each reachable position (there are 1,567,925,964 reachable positions in the game) of the game is known. White has a winning strategy from the starting position, although the theoretical win may take up to 78 plies (39 moves on each side). Thus, the game begins in a zugzwang position, in which the side to move (Black in the initial position) is at a disadvantage. By symmetry, the game also begins in a Trébuchet position, a full-point zugzwang position, in which the side to begin movement eventually loses.[1]
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Nov 19, 2014 02:46
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Jongbum pauses, grabs his smartphone, searches "Dōbutsu shōgi guaranteed win" and downloads the app
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Nov 19, 2014 02:54
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comedyblissoption posted:According to the wikipedia article, the person to move second is the theoretical winner in a solved game. It's a little confusing because black moves first in asian board games. 
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Nov 19, 2014 03:20
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Suspicious Dish posted:My new goal in life is to figure out how to play this game and then play it. Just play The Campaign for North Africa. It's probably easier. Edit: Aw, hell. Now I've started thinking about it and I found this picture of a real board:  I found templates for playing taikyoku shogi online, but no programs. That's not too surprising since I suspect that an AI for that game would essentially be just pushing pieces Another Edit Strikes!: Suspicious Dish, you are in luck! I found an online game management tool that supports about every shogi variant you can imagine including this one. It tracks all the legal moves for you, but doesn't have an AI so you'll have to find a partner to actually try to play the game. http://shogitter.com/rule/64 Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 03:48
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The main match may have been whatever but Dongmin laying down those crazy vengeance vibes down on everyone made for great television. Good poo poo, Dongmin!
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Nov 19, 2014 04:13
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I think my favorite small thing about this show is how at the beginning of every episode, the music builds and builds before the credits. That's just really good blood-pumping editing.
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Nov 19, 2014 05:23
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Capsaicin posted:I think my favorite small thing about this show is how at the beginning of every episode, the music builds and builds before the credits. That's just really good blood-pumping editing. Agreed. I always eagerly anticipate what line they'll use as the exclamation before the intro kicks in. As the seasons go on you can usually see players trying to set themselves up for it with big declarative statements.
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Nov 19, 2014 05:59
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I'm really down on Dongmin after that episode. Dude is just a sore loser who acts entitled to win. I hope he's out soon.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:13
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Random Stranger posted:Just play The Campaign for North Africa. It's probably easier. Thank you.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:27
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the talent deficit posted:I'm really down on Dongmin after that episode. Dude is just a sore loser who acts entitled to win. I hope he's out soon. I somewhat agree. Even if the other players set you up to lose I prefer people to just take it in good stride and try to bargain their way out as much as they can. If he comes back next week with an viable strategy in the game rather than just talking about revenge the entire time I might warm back up to him again. Unfortunately, he wasn't willing to bargain with the one thing I think he had, "Choose me and I will betray Hyunmin" On a different note, it's a shame Hyunmin never figured out the star thing. He could have used it to basically scare Yeonjoo by telling her he could prevent her from coming in first by constantly aping whatever card she specifically put down. It would have at least made the episode more interesting and given them a bit more control over the bigger team.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:38
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Forget all that Dongmin owns. I hope he and Ahyoung get married and they move in together at Dongmin's house with 10 family members already living there and somebody makes a variety show about it.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:11
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Superrodan posted:I somewhat agree. Even if the other players set you up to lose I prefer people to just take it in good stride and try to bargain their way out as much as they can. If he comes back next week with an viable strategy in the game rather than just talking about revenge the entire time I might warm back up to him again. Unfortunately, he wasn't willing to bargain with the one thing I think he had, "Choose me and I will betray Hyunmin" Normally I'd agree - if only we could all be MENTALITY KINGS - but Dongmin's psychological hammering was actually working. He pretty much forced the 5 man alliance to protect the two women, and inadvertently knocked out a fairly strong player in the process. If anything, I was disappointed Hyunmin wasn't trying to take advantage by playing good cop. He seemed like he was trying to ape Dongmin's pressure tactic and it just drove them away from what could have been a bargain out of the deathmatch. For either of them, selling out the other power player would have worked short term but I think keeping a long term ally was the better play overall. Zythrst posted:Forget all that Dongmin owns. I hope he and Ahyoung get married and they move in together at Dongmin's house with 10 family members already living there and somebody makes a variety show about it. also this.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:27
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Superrodan posted:I somewhat agree. Even if the other players set you up to lose I prefer people to just take it in good stride and try to bargain their way out as much as they can. If he comes back next week with an viable strategy in the game rather than just talking about revenge the entire time I might warm back up to him again. Unfortunately, he wasn't willing to bargain with the one thing I think he had, "Choose me and I will betray Hyunmin" Dongmin had no say in the game whatsoever, and the other team knew it. He had nothing to bargain, because the other team had a simple strategy that made sure Hyunmin and Dongmin were going to lose. I guess he could've gone down on his knees, cried, and begged the other team to pick Hyunmin instead of him for the deathmatch (the Yohwan strategy). Dongmin's strategy was to try to intimidate the girls into doing something really irrational and stupid. Of course, it was unlikely to work, but he couldn't do much else. Superrodan posted:On a different note, it's a shame Hyunmin never figured out the star thing. He could have used it to basically scare Yeonjoo by telling her he could prevent her from coming in first by constantly aping whatever card she specifically put down. It would have at least made the episode more interesting and given them a bit more control over the bigger team. Regardless of that, HyunDong were still going to be chosen for the deathmatch. And well, your strategy : "Scare Yeonjoo by telling her he could prevent her from coming in first" is pretty similar to Dongmin's strategy "Intimade the girls by talking about revenge and saying they betrayed him".
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Nov 19, 2014 07:31
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This guy who was set up in a guaranteed loss shouldn't have joked and had fun with it, but instead solemnly accepted his tragic duty or betray his teammate, the only other good player, for absolutely no reason.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:38
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Dongmin makes a point in taking betrayals very seriously, and does his damnedest to avoid betraying anybody he chooses to ally with. He was willing to give up over half his total garnet count to bargain for Sujin when it had no direct benefit for him to do so. The girls betraying him like they did (severely, from his perspective) gives him every right to be furious, considering his character. Also, he would obviously not sell out Hyunmin considering all this. And now that makes me more hyped than ever for the next episode because their alliance is now out in the open, and that could lead to very interesting game dynamics and drama, especially if they keep losing the main matches due to being outnumbered but start to take out the others by winning deathmatches. That would make for good TV.
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Nov 19, 2014 08:11
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Hat Thoughts posted:This guy who was set up in a guaranteed loss shouldn't have joked and had fun with it, but instead solemnly accepted his tragic duty or betray his teammate, the only other good player, for absolutely no reason. Yeah but he didn't come off as joking or having fun. He was being a straight up rear end in a top hat and sulking and pouting. Part of the appeal of The Genius for me is that the players generally get along and have fun playing the game. Dongmin straight up tried to bully and intimidate the other players on the last episode. I've mostly liked him up until now but if he comes back next week and acts like he did this week I hope he goes soon.
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Nov 19, 2014 08:13
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Yeah, it was frustrating to watch him take it badly, but to be fair, if the producers placed you in a rigged game where a majority of 5 just chose which two players to throw out, and there was nothing you could do to stop it, you'd be grumpy as well.
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Nov 19, 2014 08:36
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Random Stranger posted:I knocked together a play-at-home version of the Black Mission for anyone interested in seeing if it's at all possible for them. It only took about three minutes to do with the hardest part being coming up with the stop names. Here's how you can play the slightly easier home version. Below in the spoiler text is the list of stops in order. Give yourself 30 seconds to memorize the list if you want to do it The Genius way or one minute if you want to have a reasonable chance of pulling it off. The second spoiler block is just the stop numbers in a random order. Pop open notepad and write down the stops in that order. Then finally there's a convenient spoiler block in the same order as the jumbled list as your answer key. It's all on the honor system, so here we go.
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Nov 19, 2014 08:50
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Highly Unnecessary posted:Death match spoilers.
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Nov 19, 2014 08:54
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:19 |
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Josh Lyman posted:I've been following the World Chess Championship so I was all over the board and assumed the game was won at this point, but when Hyunmin didn't take it, I thought I had failed to understand the rules. Couldn't jongbum have moved his king back to the middle to defend? That's what I was screaming at him to do
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Nov 19, 2014 08:58
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