|
I've been reading the re-read along with my first read through the books since somewhere around Bonehunters (almost done DoD now) and it's been great. It's very helpful with identifying all the ongoing subplots, foreshadowing, and subtleties that are all over these books that I just can't comprehend myself without poring over every paragraph like I'm in grade 10 English class again.
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 02:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 14:36 |
|
|
Ex-Priest Tobin posted:- Erikson's imagery owns. There are so many cool vivid scenes - Fener being brought down in DG, Gruntle's house of corpses in book 3, the battle over Pale. The only other fantasy author who is comparable to Erikson in the quality of his fantastical imagery IMO is Mervyn Peake. I actually never found the house of corpses that cool, but I guess that is more my different perspective. The ends of Itkovian and Brukhalian were much better. Ex-Priest Tobin posted:- The series could use better editing, although that's a criticism that could probably be levied on every fantasy novel in existence. The random minor soldier characters get on my nerves, especially when Eriskon rapidly switches between their POVs - e.g. the dream sequences in the tunnel under Y'Ghatan. gently caress no. One of the best things with Eriksons writing is all those POV from minor characters. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2015 14:51
|
|
|
Dust of Dreams: Oh there's only 60 pages left, guess nothing's happening until The Cripp- 
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2015 06:16
|
|
|
Toll the Hounds: About halfway through. Karsa broing out with Dassem Ultor is the best. Murillios duel with Gorlas is the worst. He was one of the most genuinely likable characters in the series 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 00:08
|
|
|
I'm trying to understand how exactly Tehol destroyed the economy a second time. It honestly seems he literally does nothing and talks big while Bugg does all the work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 03:22
|
|
|
amuayse posted:I'm trying to understand how exactly Tehol destroyed the economy a second time. As nearly as I can tell, he made a ton of corporations creditors to his companies while simultaneously removing the short-term supply of hard currency. This resulted in companies that were not his being unable to pay their debts. Enough companies collapsing caused a chain reaction of collapses..
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 03:39
|
|
|
It just seems to me that everyone has absolutely no business sense in Letheri except Tehol or the Ratcatcher's Guild does indeed control everything. Tehol's whole scheme comes across more like the financial version of Idiocracy than some brilliant economy destroying plan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 06:17
|
|
|
acumen posted:Dust of Dreams: I never liked the end of DoD, regardless how awesome the scenes are, simply since it felt so out of touch with the rest of the series. I also forgot how much of DoD/TCG consists of gods walking around in the wastelands doing nothing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 06:32
|
|
|
Finished Reaper's Gale yesterday. That last Beak scene, with Hood and his brother almost made me cry, something this series hasn't managed since the Chain of Dogs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
zeal posted:Finished Reaper's Gale yesterday. That last Beak scene, with Hood and his brother almost made me cry, something this series hasn't managed since the Chain of Dogs. Any mention of Beak usually gets a collective  from everyone in this thread. God, I loved those Beak scenes so much. So glad I'm rereading things immediately after ending the series.By the way, GotM had been awesome the second time around. I'm nearing the end of the book, but what ever happened with Burn and her sleeping? Did that ever get resolved and I forgot about it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
Yarrbossa posted:Any mention of Beak usually gets a collective Or depends on what you mean by 'resolved.'
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:37
|
|
|
Habibi posted:Or depends on what you mean by 'resolved.' I guess I mean does Burn ever do anything besides sleep? I vaguely remember something about the Crippled God and/or Quick Ben doing something with Burn...maybe? Also, why is she even sleeping in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Yarrbossa posted:I guess I mean does Burn ever do anything besides sleep? I vaguely remember something about the Crippled God and/or Quick Ben doing something with Burn...maybe? Also, why is she even sleeping in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
Yarrbossa posted:I guess I mean does Burn ever do anything besides sleep? I vaguely remember something about the Crippled God and/or Quick Ben doing something with Burn...maybe? Also, why is she even sleeping in the first place? Weelllll...no, she never does anything but sleep, except when you meet her in FoD. As far as why, IIRC, two explanations are offered: 1) she sleeps to fight TCGs infection; 2) she sleeps to dream...existence, with the theory being that if she wakes up, the current round of existence ends. The way I interpreted it for the latter, her sleeping/waking is essentially a metaphor for tectonic/volcanic type activity. While she sleeps, the land is dormant, when she wakes, it basically triggers earthquakes/volcanoes etc and wipes out most life. So in RG you have the scene where Icarium sets foot in Lether, and Burn flinches, resulting in earthquakes. Or it could be more literal, as with the Mhybe to whom she is compared, and whose dreaming basically creates/maintains a Warren.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
Habibi posted:Weelllll...no, she never does anything but sleep, except when you meet her in FoD. As far as why, IIRC, two explanations are offered: 1) she sleeps to fight TCGs infection; 2) she sleeps to dream...existence, with the theory being that if she wakes up, the current round of existence ends. The way I interpreted it for the latter, her sleeping/waking is essentially a metaphor for tectonic/volcanic type activity. While she sleeps, the land is dormant, when she wakes, it basically triggers earthquakes/volcanoes etc and wipes out most life. So in RG you have the scene where Icarium sets foot in Lether, and Burn flinches, resulting in earthquakes. Or it could be more literal, as with the Mhybe to whom she is compared, and whose dreaming basically creates/maintains a Warren. It's ok because if Burn ever wakes up everyone will just end up in Kruppe-verse forever. Which may be a fate worse than death.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 19:19
|
|
|
Captain Monkey posted:It's ok because if Burn ever wakes up everyone will just end up in Kruppe-verse forever. Which may be a fate worse than death. Give me Dragnipur anyday. But in all seriousness, I find Kruppe a lot funnier the second time around. Thanks for the info on Burn. I recall now the bits about stuff being poisoned because of the Crippled God. I'm nearing the end of GotM now, and it is far more interesting the second time around. Is there mind blowing stuff I should've caught that I didn't (without having read FoD yet)? I thought someone mentioned that we briefly meet Fisher at some point?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
Yarrbossa posted:Give me Dragnipur anyday. IIRC, not until Reaper's Gale, and you meet him more than briefly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
Here's an interesting little Kharkanas related exchange from GotM (page 449 of the paperback):quote:And then Tool hit her with another stunning revelation. 'I am sure,' the Imass said, 'the Tiste Andii regret their coming to this world.'
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 22:36
|
|
|
It is fairly likely that this is a GotMism and as such will be retconned - or that Tool doesn't have all the information since all that happened way before his time. It can also be a mythological interpretation of historical/political events (ie what most people were rolling with before FoD started smashing theories left and right).
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 23:02
|
|
|
Whether it has been retconned it has been done so precisely so that throws off the reader and makes them believe what the people in the books believe
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:or that Tool doesn't have all the information since all that happened way before his time. Pretty much these two and what Jose said. Even if retconned, it was almost certainly not intended to be accurate in the first place. Technically, the ritual had happened by or at the time of FoD, so Tool and the other T'lan should have been around when the Tiste 'came' into their world, but wouldn't have known of what led to it nor, as it seems, did the Imass have any knowledge of the Tiste's existence or presence before they arrived.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:03
|
|
|
In the last few months I blazed through all of the BotF series, FoD, and the the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach series. I intentionally avoided the ICE books until I had nothing else left to read because everyone in this thread saying that they were pretty terrible. I just finished Night of Knives and... I liked it. Does this mean that I've had terrible taste all this time and didn't know it? Or do the later books suck more and tarnish this one? I've heard Kiska's storyline doesn't actually go anywhere so I tried not to get too invested in what her ultimate role will be, but I liked the Temper parts. Granted they both seemed a little too Mary Sue/Marty Stu-ish, but that's most fantasy books for you, and there are definitely characters like that in the main series. The parts I enjoyed the most were Temper's flashbacks that revealed a lot more about Daseem and the first assault on Y'Ghatan, seemed almost like it belonged in a different book.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 03:17
|
|
|
Habibi posted:Pretty much these two and what Jose said. Even if retconned, it was almost certainly not intended to be accurate in the first place. Technically, the ritual had happened by or at the time of FoD, so Tool and the other T'lan should have been around when the Tiste 'came' into their world, but wouldn't have known of what led to it nor, as it seems, did the Imass have any knowledge of the Tiste's existence or presence before they arrived. Finished off the Andii part of TCG and I don't understand how Erikson will have space to fit in the rest of the things in the Kharkanas series. Dragons and drinking their blood, Rake and Silchas killing off High houses, marriage between Urusander and Mother Dark and raising of the Shore, Dragnipur (yeah, I believe it now), sundering of Shadow and battle between dragons and Rake, Kilmandaros and Osserc, sealing off Starvald Demelain using the Hust legion, Silchas "betrayal" of Rake, the Silanah-Rake love thing, one of Hunn Raals cousin becoming leader of the Liosan and meeting Kallor, 7 dogs of Shadow, Spite and Envy, Blind Gallans road, K'Chain Ch'Malle and more things that I have forgotten. Also, Quick Ben gets retconned more times than I remember in the series. In some ways FoD was a slow burner and things will go a lot faster now. Also, the Bridgeburners from Malazan wiki. Not the way I would have pictured Detoran and for that matter, any one else. Isn't Quick Ben rather short and Kalam rather big in the books? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 08:07
|
|
|
It's a pretty good look into the Malazan universe and a pretty bad book. This is perfectly fine for some people, mind you; the good news is, the following books are better. Except Assail. gently caress Assail. edit: Don't know about QB but Kalam is definitely mentioned as being huge several times.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 08:07
|
|
|
Jose posted:Whether it has been retconned it has been done so precisely so that throws off the reader and makes them believe what the people in the books believe Is there even anything to retcon? Tool says right there that it's probably bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 08:19
|
|
|
I just thought it was cool that Tiste back-story showed up in book 1. Erikson obviously expanded his plans for that material a lot as the series progressed. Hood's Balls, when is Fall Of Light coming out?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 10:22
|
|
|
I started the 3rd one and don't remember poo poo about Paran. Can anyone remind me : * So is he still cursed by Oponn? What happened to the sword that was cursed? * How did he end up with shadow hound blood * How did he end up in front of Hood gates and what happened after * Why was he in Anomander's sword and how did he manage to save the hounds there * Why is one sister sent to the mines and the other made an Adjunct, aren't they on the same side
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 15:24
|
|
|
GotM and DH spoilers: *No, Oponn learned not to mess with mortals. He threw the sword into the sea or something. *He was nearby when Rake killed two Hounds near Darujhistan. Inspected corpses, touched the blood, ended in the sword. Blackmailed Oponn to get him and the hounds out. *Technically, he got killed and Shadowtrone freed him since it'be too much of a bother to find out who the next pawn of Oponn was. *Tavore needs to show she's sincere about the nobility culling, so she sends Felisin to the mines - with a bodyguard who's supposed to bust her out. Things don't work out that well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 15:38
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:GotM and DH spoilers: not quite on the first point crokus throws oponn's coin into the sea during GOTM's epilogue, as noted by circle breaker. cotillion takes paran's sword during the convergence in darujhistan
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 16:15
|
|
|
What's up with Karsa in DHG? Is his entire character retconned completely? I haven't' read DHG in years, all I remember is that he's in it by Leoman's side, but he seems like a such a goofy douche compared to the Karsa we get to know. EDIT: Are we still spoilering the books at this point? 
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 18:25
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:It is fairly likely that this is a GotMism and as such will be retconned - or that Tool doesn't have all the information since all that happened way before his time. Uhm, what is it that you people consider incongruous? It all seems quite accurate to me. The part missing is the one about the dragon warren, but that's because it's how Forge of Darkness ENDS.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
FoD spoilers: Tiste aren't of Galain but of the same world Malazan is taking place in, Dark and Light are (presumably in the second case) not gods but high-ranking Tiste, Dark didn't create Light. As I said, it's more likely to be a foggy recounting of events as they passed from history to myth; still it's inaccurate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
So I recently started listening to the GotM audio book during my commute, and the different medium has changed my opinions about it a fair bit. Mostly the slow and dramatic delivery. Firstly, my pronunciations  . Nappan as in nape of your neck not nap of fur, Tistuh instead of teest. Korel as in the reef. Instant immersion breakers all of them. Who knows what I'll get when Tool shows up.Secondly, boy is the beginning melodramatic as poo poo. Hairlock sure does hate Tayschren. Tattersail sure is put through the wringer every thirty seconds or so. Topper sure can't stand Paran's gibes. I guess this is comes across because the narrator is really putting some effort in to the voices but it's certainly not what I thought when I have read it myself. Thirdly everyone has this high feminine voice, especially fiddler and quick ben, which annoys me. So yeah. Not that far in yet but uhh, maybe audiobooks aren't my thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:FoD spoilers: Tiste aren't of Galain but of the same world Malazan is taking place in, Dark and Light are (presumably in the second case) not gods but high-ranking Tiste, Dark didn't create Light. As I said, it's more likely to be a foggy recounting of events as they passed from history to myth; still it's inaccurate. I want to say this isn't true - I'm going to have to re-read the books.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 19:53
|
|
|
Oh, it's entirely possible I'm wrong there, I only read FoD twice and it's been a while.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 20:07
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:FoD spoilers: Tiste aren't of Galain but of the same world Malazan is taking place in, If true, then this would contradict the prologue of MT, more than GotM. We still don't know "where" FoD takes place, or how it moves from there. We need the trilogy complete to know the whole genesis. quote:Dark and Light are (presumably in the second case) not gods but high-ranking Tiste, Dark didn't create Light. Gods become gods. And definitely FoD Light Tiste develop from the Dark.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 22:34
|
|
|
Kharkanas Trilogy theories: It all takes place on the same world, but some of the races didn't know the others existed. It's shown in the book that they can travel between regions and, while not explicitly stated, I don't think there's any magic involved. Some races just seem more isolated than others. Each race is overseen (created?) by an Azanthai(sp?). Olar Ethil->Imass, Draconus->Tiste, Kilmandaros->Forkrul Assail, guy I can't remember->Thelomen, etc. There is magic, but it seems it can only be access by Azanthai. K'rul decides to use his blood to allow everyone access to magic (maybe this was his attempt to stop him from needing blood sacrifices?). This somehow allowed the creation of Warrens or Holds. Draconus creates the Hold/Warren of Darkness. We will then see the Hold of Light and Shadow formed in the upcoming books. When the holds are created, the areas that they encompass are incorporated off world. I also think whatever K'rul did allowed gates to be formed, which is how the dragons came through. The other possibility is that whatever Draconus did allowed them through (possibly having something to do with Darkness being chased by Chaos, and dragons coming from Chaos?). Dark did create light, but not in the way the rest of the books would have you believe. When that one lady was turned white, that was the start of the Liosan. If I remember right, this was done, in part, by T'riss when she came from the Vitr and visited Mother Dark. The Shadow Tiste seem to be those who were caught in the middle, mainly the lower/middle class folks, while the Liosan and Andii seem to be mostly the noble houses. The greyish skin color of the Edur could either come from the "combining" of dark and light, or that was the natural color and it never changed since they didn't choose dark or light. The sundering of Shadow seems to happen due to fighting between Andii and Liosan over who had control over the common folks. A large group of Tiste left Shadow during the fighting and came back to the regular Malazan world. That's where they run into the Key-chain she-males. e: More theory stuff: Because of what K'rul did, blood was no longer required as a sacrifice and now have people can become gods/ascendants by being worshiped (Silchas, Scara Bandaris, Annomander, etc). I drive a BBW fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Mar 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 02:01
|
|
|
blk96gt posted:Kharkanas Trilogy theories: Yeah, Edur seems to be those wanting nothing to do with the whole thing. Scara Bandaris walks out on the whole mess and he is the god of the Edur. But he also turned dragon, so some further involvement must happen. Kagamandra Tulas/Tulas Shorn become King of Shadow before getting thrown down and killed, He also becomes a dragon. Sukul Ankhadu, Menandore and Sheltata Lores involvement with the Edur is a little confusing at the moment. Especially Sukul Ankhadu seems rather decent judged by FoD. As for the Sundering of Shadow, that seems to be a combination of Icarium and dragons, where Rake, Osserc and Kilmandaros will defend the throne from all pretenders. Shadow was apparently birthed by the joining of Dark and Light, ie some meeting between Urusander and Mother Dark, TL:DR Fall of Light can't come fast enough.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 07:12
|
|
|
Quick question re: TCG, which I have not finished: is the sword that Shadowthrone gives the Oponn sword from GotM?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 14:36 |
|
|
I don't think so, because Silchas mentions it's Hust whereas Paran just bought the thing normally.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 15:18
|
|