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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:I mean, yeah, but the class demo screen is probably way, way down on the priority list for things to translate. It's not surprising that early patches didn't care about it. They were. I remember at one point they were just semi-random messes. The class description for Archers mentioned them attacking bo'Gas or some such nonsense. That said the fan translations made a lot of names make infinitely more sense than the official ones. "Sety" instead of "Ced" and "Volcanon" instead of "Bolganone" being the ones that stand out most.
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Apr 27, 2015 08:26
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Onmi posted:It's their fault for not translating it I think that's being too harsh. It had some issues, particularly in unimportant places like the demo screen, but on the whole it's not a bad translation. And I've no doubt it helped with the creation of the later, improved translations.
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Apr 27, 2015 08:38
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Melth posted:I think that's being too harsh. It had some issues, particularly in unimportant places like the demo screen, but on the whole it's not a bad translation. And I've no doubt it helped with the creation of the later, improved translations. It's actually a very poor translation, or at the very least a very literal translation. It's not as bad as say.... FE4 or 5 who's translations contain literal gibberish, but it is not good either. My main problem was mediocrity being taken as "done" and never improved, and worse off that people resisted a new translation. MarquiseMindfang posted:They were. I remember at one point they were just semi-random messes. The class description for Archers mentioned them attacking bo'Gas or some such nonsense. That would be because names like Ced or in FE6's particular case, Shanna, don't actually translate to those. It's sort of like FE4's Sukasaha being localized as "Ulster" because a reasonable person looked at Sukasaha and went "Nope." Ced and Forseti are examples of missing the point though (That Sety was named after Holsety) There is one name the new translation uses that I can't stand, and that's Jerrot for Zealot.
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Apr 27, 2015 09:59
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Proper nouns and other names of things (including moves, techniques, titles, etc) are surprisingly difficult to localise. They're often harder than puns. Fire Emblem has had some real head scratchers though, mostly involving stuff being translated in a patch as a transliteration in English of a transliteration in katakana of a Norse name.
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Apr 27, 2015 11:32
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Fedule posted:Proper nouns and other names of things (including moves, techniques, titles, etc) are surprisingly difficult to localise. They're often harder than puns. What you didn't enjoy the battle of Barhara?
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Apr 27, 2015 11:34
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Yeah, FE6's first translation is comprehensible, but that doesn't make it good. I appreciate the effort that went into it but the end result isn't acceptable. It's way too stiff, has tons of grammatical slip-ups, and is overall just awkward to read. FE6's story isn't great either way, but I'm sure that the first translation patch played a big part in why so many people dislike it. It's pretty easy to say nobody gets any characterization when every single character sounds the same. Endorph fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 11:54
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Endorph posted:Yeah, FE6's first translation is comprehensible, but that doesn't make it good. I appreciate the effort that went into it but the end result isn't acceptable. It's way too stiff, has tons of grammatical slip-ups, and is overall just awkward to read. Even the best script looks really bad with a poor translation, that's not me saying FE6 has a great script because I'm with Endorph, it's really rather average. But there's a big difference between a professional group like Treehouse or 8-4 translating the script and a bunch of people on the internet still in the mindset that the pure translation must be left alone. It reminded me a whole lot of getting a novel translation that had absolutely no paragraphs, because japanese didn't have traditional paragraphs so why would the translation? Answer: Because it's loving hard to read and a lot of japanese Idioms and styles don't translate well to english especially when an amateur is doing them. Even FE7 would look pretty boring fan translated, or hell, one only has to look at FE11, which is a game based upon a pretty boring story, but you can tell that the translation team were actively striving for quality. So while boring you can at least feel like they were trying.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:20
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Contrast that to FE12 which has a drat good fan translation, to the point where after I awhile I started to forget I even was playing a fan translation!
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Apr 27, 2015 12:22
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The patch Melth is using is a translation patch, and it works fine for that, but it's not a localization, which all the official English releases have been. Back when I played FE4, there were still a bunch of instances of "Siglud" in the random village dialogue. I wonder if that game ever got a localization patch. Also, Roy would actually be a fairly decent character if not for his awful promotion time. Yeah, his growths are strictly worse than Eliwood's, but FE6's crew on the whole is just weaker than that of FE7. Roy's 80/25/30 defensive growths look sad on paper, but they're strictly better than most characters, and the ones who do have better defense growths have bad resistance and vice versa.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:33
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 So here’s where the plot seems like it’s going to take an unexpected direction. Then it continues as expected, but it does at least take on an unexpected tone. It’s a slightly interesting battle tactically and also presents the first opportunity to begin purchasing equipment. Chapter Summary: Roy and his retainers hurry to a border village where a group of mercenaries hired by Eliwood was to join them. There they discover a troop of rogue Bern soldiers had kidnapped the princess of Bern to hand over to them. The princess, Guinevere, joins them in hopes that together they can reach a diplomatic end to the conflict.  We do need more men so I can kick Wolt and Bors off the team.  Some might question the tactical wisdom of having the rendezvous under the shadow of a Bernish (Bernian? Bernese? Béarnaise?) castle. Eliwood is delirious with yellow fever though, so his blunder can be forgiven.  Roy and the mercenaries both just blunder in regardless.  And it’s the first enemy cutscene of the game! Just as in the prequel, this is an adequate way of giving information to the player that the heroes couldn’t possibly know, but it also spoils most potentially interesting surprises. The real strength of revealing things this way (rather than having the player learn things as the characters do) is developing the villains. There’s a lot more of that kind of thing in FE7 than here in the prequel^(-1) though, so these enemy cutscenes do at least as much harm as good. Oh and take a guess which of these two will join the party later!  Rude reveals that he somehow lost the Béarnaise princess. Miledy runs back to the capital to report, leaving him to find her.  And Rude’s treachery is revealed: he kidnapped Guinevere and lied about her going missing.  I wonder why this whole group is so loyal to Rude in particular and not to their country. Even one person finding out and not going along with his plan would have doomed it. Possibly it’s because they’re so close to the Lycian border: maybe they don’t consider themselves Béarnaise at all.  He hopes to ransom her to someone in Lycia or one of Bern’s other enemies.  Well that’s a problem.  Meanwhile Roy and Merlinus arrive in the village, looking for their mercenaries. This plot is really running on coincidences and contrivances so far.  Ellen, the princess’s servant, runs up and asks them for help.  Then this was a terrible place to go to meet our new allies!  Oh, here come the soldiers.  We could still totally flee. Or negotiate. I mean, they haven’t actually attacked, they just ran in our general direction (in fact, that group doesn’t actually advance and attack if you don’t end your turn in their range). And, you know, they WANT to sell the princess to people like us. We're on the same side as them.  The classic healer joining the party speech. The War Room, Part 36: Here’s the first chapter with a store, so this is a good time to talk about the funds requirement for max ranking. Essentially, you have to reach a certain threshold of total assets by the end of the game. Actually, to avoid confusion with the way funds was calculated in FE7, let me call it capital. You need to reach a certain threshold of total capital by the end of the game. Your capital is equal to your cash + the sell value of all your items (Half their true value). Note that for items that have two or more charges before they’re used up and vanish (like weapons, staves, vulneraries, etc.), the value of the item is prorated. So a heal staff with 30 charges is worth 600 (300 sell value), but once 15 charges are used up, the remaining staff is worth only 300 (150 sell value). How much capital do you need? Short answer 84,000, long answer it depends. Basically instead of each chapter having a tailored amount of funds you need to acquire based on what’s available, you’re supposed to gain 6,000 in capital every single chapter (except side quests!). Sometimes that’s trivial, sometimes it’s impossible. But it ultimately doesn’t matter due to a glitch/poorly thought out way the ranking is figured out. See the threshold you need to be at is based on the current map loaded, but the true ending epilogue loads up the Arcadia map (chapter 14) for one scene. So it calculates the overall requirement as 14 x 6000 = 84,000, the amount you had to have on chapter 14 to have an A rank in funds up till then. The epilogues other than the best ending one don’t have that scene, so they don’t load that map, so they don’t use its requirements. Details at the bottom of this page: http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/miscellaneous/rankings/details/ So if you had, say, 120,000 in capital going into the final chapter and looked at your current funds rank, you wouldn’t have an A, but then you’d suddenly jump up to one in the epilogue. Anyway, it was clearly intended that you get 150,000 in capital, not 84,000, and this is a bug. So I think I’m going to try to get to 150,000. So if you don’t mind that bug doing the work for you, you need to get a profit of 2700 or so capital per chapter. It’s about 5000 for the 150,000 proper threshold. So how does one gain capital? 1) Well some story events (like beginning the game) give out cash or treasure directly. 2) Additionally, villages and chests give out treasure if you get to/open them. Make sure you don’t let enemy brigands destroy villages or thieves steal from chests. 3) Recruited characters have gear which counts as capital for you once they join your side, so recruit everyone. 4) Some enemies have items other than weapons (vulneraries, gems, keys promotion items, etc.). If you have a thief, you can steal these items. I don’t think your thief even needs to be faster in this game! 5) The Hammerne staff is a unique staff worth 1800 gold. That means it counts as 900 in capital. And it has 3 charges, so using up a charge of it costs you 300 in capital. Its effect is to restore another item to maximum possible charges. Since an item’s current value is based on its number of charges, this could be a net profit. For example, a Warp staff with all 5 charges is worth 7500 (sell value 3750), so one with 1 charge is worth 1500 (sell value 750). Use Hammerne on it and you gain 3000 in capital and lose 300 for a net profit of 2700. And how does one lose capital? 1) Buying anything. If you buy an item, you must spend its whole value in cash, but then it’s only worth half that in capital once you have it. Thus if you pay 460 for an iron sword, you immediately lose 230 in capital that can never be recovered. If you have the silver card in your unit’s inventory while shopping, you instead buy at a price equal to the item’s capital value and thus suffer no loss. 2) Using anything. Item value is prorated for the number of charges remaining. That iron sword that cost 460 to buy has a capital value of 230 while it has all 46 charges left. Each time you hit an enemy with it, you lose 5 gold in capital. An item like an Angelic Robe has a value of 8000 (capital value 4000) and has but a single charge. Use that and you instantly lose 4000 in capital. 3) Dropping items. If you discard an item, you lose its whole remaining sell value. 4) Letting characters with items die. If one of your characters has items and dies, those items vanish and you lose their capital value. So to do well on the funds ranking, make sure to get all story cash and treasure rewards, visit all villages, open all chests, recruit all characters, and steal everything you can. Additionally, you could consider using the Hammerne on an extremely valuable but mostly used up item in your possession instead of on the handy but valueless legendary weapons. Further, don't EVER drop an item or let characters die. Avoid using valuable weapons, staves, and items that are worth a lot (like promotion items and stat booster items). And don’t buy anything you don’t need to. Buying an iron sword to use instead of a steel one you already have is a net loss. But obviously it’s important to have people equipped with reasonable gear, so don’t be overly stingy. A few hundred gold lost on iron swords is well worth it if it saves you some turns or lets you feed XP to someone low level you’d have to bench otherwise. Once you’ve got the silver card, you can buy whatever you want as long as you carry that (but of course, you still don’t want to use up expensive items that you bought with the silver card). Oh and if you’ve max ranked FE7 before, notice that here in the arcprequel using up things like the angelic robe that you didn’t buy only costs 4000 instead of the 8000 it does in 7. You can use promotion items and stat boosters and expensive weapons and the like more liberally in this game, just don’t buy them. Of course, 4000 may be less than 8000, but it's still too much money to throw away on something unimportant. Battle Preparations & the Map:  Secondary Objective: Visit the village for an Armorslayer Secondary Objective: Build some supports Secondary Objective: Do some shopping Reinforcements: Thany, Dieck, Wade, and Lot join the player side at the beginning of turn 2. No enemy reinforcements! Turn Limit: 13. Again, quite easy to meet. Perhaps less so than the last one since good herd-thinning tactics will be needed to quickly but safely cut through the enemy horde. At first glance, this looks like a worrisome chapter due to the greatly increased number of enemies. However, a large number of allies are about to join up. Additionally, most of the enemies are rather docile and will not charge you unless you get into their range. Finally, many of the enemies are now of the absolutely horrible soldier class. Bear in mind that an increased party size only directly makes you stronger on offense, not defense. You can more easily kill larger numbers of enemies on your turns, but each of your characters individually remains just as vulnerable to getting swarmed and killed. Don’t let that happen. Use your increased number of characters to form better walls and defensive lines and to eliminate threatening enemies pre-emptively. Unlike last chapter, these docile enemies are mostly under control already. All that remains is to force them to fight characters with weapon triangle advantage on beneficial terrain like those handily placed forts. The Characters:  Merlinus, of fog of war sidequest infamy, makes his debut. His characterization is completely different than in the prequel. Really there’s no resemblance other than not being very brave. Here he’s a trusted and serious family retainer and adviser to house Pherae and completely lacks his weird FE7 mannerisms and histrionics. The result is actually a better character, one of the few people to interact in any interesting way with Roy. He provides a generally ignored voice of reason and caution (though he's ALWAYS wrong). And he’s almost the only person to ever disagree with Roy on anything. If there were more characters like him, the game script would be a lot less boring after these early chapters. Oh how the dodge-y have fallen! Merlinus can’t take a hit from anything, doesn’t dodge well, and is doubled by most things. What’s more, though his growths are about the same excellent fare for making him a dodge tank, he can’t promote anymore. And most critically of all, he doesn’t level up for free every chapter! No, the only way to give him any XP at all is to have him get attacked. Each attack will give him exactly 1 XP. So yeah, this guy who gets doubled by everything and instant killed by most things would need to survive 100 attacks to level up. Not happening. At least he can still move, but that's the only thing he has going for him. Fortunately, it’s absolutely unnecessary to bring him along. In the prequel, you can’t send items to storage unless he’s on the map, so you'd have to drop any items you gain when you have 5. That’s catastrophic, so you must always bring him. In this game, it doesn't matter if he's on the map or not, you can send items to storage just fine. The only point to bringing him is so you can take items out of storage mid-battle (which, as I demonstrated in FE7, is admittedly useful for some advanced strategies). Facilitating that, he has his own inventory and can access storage himself in this game, so he can use his turn to supply other people instead of them needing to use theirs. However, previously Merlinus didn’t take up one of your limited character slots. Now he does. And previously he could survive being on the front lines when you needed him to, now he can’t. He’s never worth dropping someone else for. Don’t use him.  Princess Guinevere’s mild-mannered and polite but brave and loyal retainer, she’s loyal to her lady- and to the Elimine Church- rather than to Bern. Beyond this one critical moment, she has little role in the story. Her supports with both the victims of Bern’s aggression and her fellow servants of Guinevere are unusually good though and reveal her to be kind, responsible, and fairly wise. And she’s the only character I can think of who understands that it’s not a good idea to have 10 year olds and the like on the battlefield. Ellen is terrible as a unit though. 1 Mag? Even with a respectable 50% growth, she’s going to have pitiful Mag until the very last levels. And that’s assuming she can even be raised that far when healing XP is so slow and there are so many other healers. She’s also slow- though mercifully she starts quick enough that nothing will double her- and even squishier than Lucius in FE7. Combine a bad class, terrible stats, and fierce competition from the more mobile and durable (though even weaker) Clarine and the quick and tough (though not more mobile) Saul and you have a recipe for failure even before every magic user in the game promotes into a better healer. However, she's a necessary evil until other healers are available, and I might as well do a lot of heal grinding with her to maximize my XP gained.  A big, dumb, brave warrior. That’s… that’s about it. Horrible. Kick him off the team and RUN. Fighters are usually a bad class and this one makes Dorcas look good. He’s nearly the slowest character in the game, likely won’t have 2 Res at 20/20, has cruddy def too, can’t hit, and doesn’t even have more Str than some of his axe wielding competition. Not only can he not do anything, but other sucky characters are better than him in the terrible axe fighter role. The man is borderline untrainable on hard mode even if you wanted to use him.  He does come with this handy hammer. It’s superficially worse but ultimately better in this game than 7, and is still the go-to can opener when you don’t have a mage around. Which is the next half-chapter and then never again.  An actual character, Lot defies FE stereotypes and lazy character writing by being not only smart but actually kind of an intellectual. He reads tactics, he plays strategy games that appear to be basically Fire Emblem on a board or something, he’s cautious, and he recognizes that war is dangerous. He’s kind of aloof and standoffish but not a jerk or anything. It feels totally out of character when he calls Dieck “Bro” all the time. And he’s interesting statistically. He’s the opposite of most axe fighters: fast with high defense but poor Str. Lowen is a fairly good statistical comparison for those who’ve played FE7. Picture Lowen with less defense, no horse, and locked to axes (which are worse). It’s not a rosy picture, but it’s not horrible for this game either. He’s usable, at least in these early chapters, so I should give him some XP while I can.  Thany is just STOKED to be out stabbing people to death on this beautiful day! Look at that grin! She’s a loose cannon Pegasus knight on the edge who doesn’t play by the rules. Like watching out for archers or holding onto the darned reins apparently. Or not prying into other people’s business. She’s friendly, aggressively outgoing, loud, reckless, optimistic, and… kind of annoying to everyone but Roy (who immediately falls for her careless cheerfulness). Picture a hyperactive five year old with no indoor voice, sense of personal space, or grasp that sharp objects are dangerous in a nearly full-grown woman’s body, riding a magical flying warhorse, and armed to the teeth. Terrifying. And annoying. Ward is the sensible and cautious old veteran in their supports. Oh and everyone in the game would like you to know that she’s vulnerable to archers. I think they’re trying to give you a hint about how to get rid of her. Thany does no damage. She’s got awful Str and con so small that even an iron lance is a -4 or so penalty to speed. However, she flies (and that’s worth a lot) and can rescue just about anyone. And she has speed on Raven’s level combined with semi-decent defenses and some of the best luck in the game. So she at least has decent survivability, which is nice. If she gets a significant Str bless, she’s a darned useful unit until better flyers arrive, but she is absolutely outclassed when that begins happening.  This is the only weapon Thany can wield without a significant speed penalty. Note that it is strictly worse than an iron sword. At least she has a javelin. That lets her hit from range where she can’t usually be countered, which is important for training her early. Just make sure she never gets attacked while wielding it or she might be doubled.  Dieck looks cool, has a personality, and has an interesting background. I think he’s the only person in the whole game who fits that description. He pretends to be a cynical and jaded and, well, mercenary mercenary. But in truth he’s heroic and loyal. He was a friend of Pent, having beaten a lion in hand to hand combat to save Pent’s son Klein. However, not wanting to besmirch Pent’s reputation in Etruria’s high society, he eventually ran away and became a mercenary. He’s been through a lot, and survived as much by his wits as his already legendary strength and skill. And he’s very good with people, a good judge of character, and a good leader. Statistically, his bases are fantastic – just look at that Con for one thing- and partially make up for his poor growths. He’ll go from the best unit on the team to only decent over the course of the game, and he’ll have some fierce competition in the infantry department from the likes of Rutger and Gonzalez- and even his fellow mercenary Oujay- but is still respectable even when he’s not the best.  For now he’s the best. This chapter is about watching him kill stuff. With this nice selection of weaponry.  The treasonous commander of this Béarnaise military outpost, Rude has captured the princess and intends to sell her to the Lycian army or another of Bern’s enemies. This actually puts him on our side - and, weirdly, on the princess’s since she wanted to get to talk to the heads of the Lycian army. No one ever points that out. Evidently his men are really, really unanimously loyal to him and he has no love of his country, only money. He’s a pretty interesting guy and it’s too bad we never learn more about him. He’s a wake up call as a boss. With that 12 def and his gate, most units can’t even scratch him. That includes otherwise rather strong people like Alan and Lance. And even Marcus if he doesn’t break out his silver lance!  His weapon isn’t scaring anyone though.The 1-2 range doesn't even help him since nobody can ever scratch him at 2 range. Playing Through:  There’s a village to visit, shopping to do, and precisely one worthless unit on this team. Off you go Merlinus! Try not to die when the shopkeeper hands you your change.  It’s time for some classic rescue-dropping to seize the advantage here. It’s impossible to reach that fortress for any unit acting alone, but I can do it with a team up. First these soldiers have to die.  Roy finishes him off. The order here saved money since it resulted in only one rapier use instead of two.  And Wolt weakens this one for Lance.  Then Ellen restores the damage done to Alan.  Now that he’s been healed, Bors and Marcus rescue and then drop him onto the fortress. There he’ll be at a significant advantage as he fights those many enemies.  Even with a javelin, Lance is fast enough to double this soldier and kill him. And he stands near Roy to keep building their support.  Alan scores the first one-round kill anyone in this game got (Marcus critting that archer I wanted alive doesn’t count!)  With his support partner Lance nearby and a fortress, Alan no longer cares about enemy fighters.  The mercenaries appear! In most FEs, the recruitment theme is one of the best music pieces in the game. This one not so much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NLYxOsNLOk  Once the dumb people are done talking, Lot and Dieck remark that things are going to be dangerous.  Merlinus visits the village. The villagers are glad because now no one will take their amazing sword.  And then Merlinus takes it or something? It rarely makes sense how we get the stuff from villages in this game. Later titles usually explain it better.  Note that Merlinus moves like a cavalryman; he can spend the rest of his 5 move after visiting the village.  Even with just an iron sword his damage is great. With his iron blade he could 1-round all of these people.  But instead he weakens that one for Thany. Then Ward and Lot rescue her back to safety.  On the left front, I use Marcus to help sweep this group efficiently.  Roy trades for an iron sword to finish the fighter.  Nice!  More trading, Alan takes his iron sword back immediately to kill this fighter.  And even more trading! Bors runs in and grabs an iron lance to attack the remaining fighter with.  And even more trading! But Lance misses so the fighter lives another turn.  So everyone I’d left in range (after that trade) was going to be able to counter the fighter to finish him, but he dodged Lance. Now I can’t kill him on the enemy turn anymore, so I’ll just run Ellen into attack range to get in an extra heal. The fort will protect her.  Dieck survived easily and the fort heals him up for most of what little damage he took.  Again, Thany gets a kill and is then rescued out to safety.  And Ward, who’ll be left in range of a guy with a handaxe, trades so he can counter.  Lot drops her.  Merlinus gets to the armory. I need 3 javelins and an iron lance and sword. With this stuff I won’t need to do so much trading in the future.  Thany is injured so I want Ellen in range to heal her next turn. I’ll need to do some rescuing to manage that.  And yet more trading, Roy takes the sword back to kill this guy.  Bors and Marcus drop Ellen along.  Before rescue-dropping Roy, Alan takes back his sword once again. It’s been passed 2 times per turn, plus lances and javelins have been swapping around. I’m picturing something out of that scene from Pirates of the Caribbean 2 with the characters throwing swords back and forth mid-fight.  So Roy and everyone else have been transported close to the new front.  Ellen is so weak that she can’t even fully heal 1 fairly average wound. That actually makes getting her more XP easier though.  I can clear this whole group if I want since Dieck has weakened them, so she’s in no danger.  Alan javelins down this one.  He’s really on fire.  Now Lance takes the javelin and uses that.  Some unlucky misses mean I won’t actually be killing everything, but I can at least clear out all the problem enemies and quarantine the rest.  One thing I will say for Ward and Lot is they’re strong enough that it’s hard to prevent them from 1-round killing these soldiers.  This fellow’s luck is finally going to wear out.  Roy drops him, taking the iron sword back once again.  And Marcus moves to lure and weaken the next wave.  Soldiers are really a sucky class.  So as turn 5 begins, this is all that remains.  I’m hoping to get her a level or two early. If I’m really lucky, she’ll get some Str and become useful. If not, at least I’ll know she’s not going anywhere and can drop her quickly.  Yes!  Marcus again moves up to lure the next wave (and clear a space to fight these guys)   Lance gets a pretty mediocre level. Speed is good at least.  And for lack of anything else to do, Roy talks to Dieck.  They get introductions done with quickly and then get back to the business at hand.  I’ve been advancing fast but keeping my vulnerable people out of harm’s way.  Surprisingly, this guy goes for Dieck who hits him back for a mediocre level.  And these enemies apparently don’t move, so they couldn’t be lured. No matter.  Merlinus visits the houses, where people are more or less completely out of character.  I can’t actually kill that archer with anyone but Marcus this turn, so I’ll content myself with this guy.  And Wolt finally catches up in time to weaken someone for Dieck.  The map is nearly clear.  Lance and Alan advance and bring Roy with them.  Another villager breaks character to talk about forts granting increased def and avoid.  Marcus, as you can see, can’t actually use the hammer because his weapon rank is too low. And the armorslayer is with Merlinus (and I needed Marcus here, so there was no good way to get it). I’m going to have to improvise and use the silver lance a bit to beat this boss. /  No matter what, Lance and Alan stay together to keep building support and I usually put Roy next to Lance.  Does anyone not say this?  Turn 8, I could win right now if I wanted.  Alan kills Rude.  I almost feel like there's a moral here somewhere, but they didn't make it obvious enough for me to figure out what it is.  It’s almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a good level up.  Well I could have won then, but I’m instead going to systematically heal grind while building support.  Ellen gets a bad level.  On turn 11, Roy can support with Lance at last.  Lance basically tells him to not go out and get killed.  The group changes formation. Now Alan will build support with Roy.  And on turn 15 all healing is done, so I take the gate.  We rescued Guenevere.  She’s impressed with Ellen’s bravery.  Introductions are made.   And no two people in the world can have the same name!  Merlinus actually manages to say something even dumber.  Guenevere explains what she’s doing here.  Roy is surprised, but eager to help end the war. So he agrees to take her with them. Total Restarts: 0 (Still easy) Turn Surplus: -9 (Again, I decided to wait 7 turns or so to grind supports and heals) Things I Regret Missing: A couple of uses of Marcus’s silver lance on Rude Melth fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2015 12:54
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Onmi posted:Even FE7 would look pretty boring fan translated The real culprit here isn't fan translation, it's bad fan translation.
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Apr 27, 2015 13:34
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I think the growth rates in this game are pretty bad. Getting 3 stats in a level up is pretty drat good. I don't have much testing to back it up, since I only played through once because I refused to play through that drat desert map ever again.
Rabbi Raccoon fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 13:40
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:To be fair to the translators I don't think either of these are actually their fault. Japanese FEs love using English in their demo screens because Intelligent Systems is just weird like that, and I don't think either of these have actually been changed from the original, as evidenced by one of them still having Japanese characters in it. I do know for a fact that Cavaliers have always been called Social Knights in Japan since FE1. Not as in the name translates to "social knight", but as in the Japanese actually sounds out to "social knight". I'm just gonna take a guess and assume his issue with that was less the social knight thing, and more the usuable of the weapon thing along with it showing bows while the dude clearly has a lance.
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Apr 27, 2015 13:51
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Okay so the recruitment theme is (like many FE pieces of music) a remix of an older theme, in this case the FE4 theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozYa8oyGdm8 It is no "Together we Ride" Also I'd like you to consider, Roy saying to Merlinus well NOW we don't have an option but to fight back against Bern's forces is less him honestly saying that, and more him smugly rubbing what he wanted to do anyway in Merlinus's face. Also here's a shot of Chapter 1 with its new palette as well  Okay so Chapter 2... I'm introducing a new section (if people even care about what I'm hacking in, if not, just say so) Cut Content! ~Cut Content~  So long ago I had the idea of merging maps from FE6 and 7 together to create maps like this, which show off the true size and scope of a region, I always felt it need when FE6 and 7 would visit the same location but just off to the side or down below. I eventually scrapped it because a map this size at Chapter 2 and it becomes a mess of population, enemies and levels. ~New Story~ Actually I left this chapter mostly in tact, it serves its purpose, it sets up the new characters reasonably well, the only major change is the inclusion of Erk   stand-in portrait ahoy This is Erk currently in progress, he's pretty dapper, his plot's fairly simple really, having had the last 20 years to rise up the ranks of the etrurians court he's sort of an independent agent who does things like checking on the Bern/Lycia war and seeing if it's any threat to Etruria. Since he knows Eliwood from FE7 it made sense for him to stop by, and since Roy is just returning from his training with Cecilia, it makes for a good team up moment. Besides it's the only time he gets away from his wife. ~New Gameplay~ Besides the addition of Erk the chapter, for now, mostly plays the exact same way, the other major difference is that since Soldier isn't a joke class anymore and an actual player one, enemy soldiers are actually dangerous... Also Dieck has Axes, because he wasn't ridiculously good from the beginning or anything. Actually rebalance wise I'm really happy wiht Lot and Ward, as both proved exceptionally well each time I used them in test plays. The buffs to axes as a whole (back to FE7 level hit) did a lot of wonders on its own. Also Melth, this game does have an actual bug. the Horseslayer/Rapier/horse slaying weapons in general not working on Nomads and Troubadours. This is actually a case of the game being hosed because one of the house dialogues does tell you those units are susceptible. Naturally for my own hack I fixed things like that, if you'd like me to do so for your playthrough I'll be happy to dial it up. But I figure you're going to want to keep it pure, bugs and all.
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Apr 27, 2015 14:00
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I think the growth rates in this game are pretty bad. Getting 3 stats in a level up is pretty drat good. I don't have much testing to back it up, since I only played through once because I refused to play through that drat desert map ever again. As usual, it's all about what stats are actually gained. But the growth rates in this game are indeed often a bit lower than in FE7 which is generally (but not entirely accurately) said to have lower growths than 8 which has lower than 9 which has like 25% of the spectacular growths even the terrible people have in 10. Getting something like 5 plusses can be mostly useless if they're, say, HP, Mag, Skill, Luck, and Res on a physical unit. And getting even 1-2 plusses can be great if they're stats you need. Almost everyone would be ecstatic to gain Str/Mag, Speed, Def, and nothing else every level. Besides such general trends though, there's often a more specific question of what that particular character needs at that particular phase of the game. Undoubtedly I've described the exact same set of plusses that I said were great for one character as terrible for another at least once in my previous LP, and I would almost certainly stand by that if it was pointed out. Some characters need speed, some need def, a few even need res. And when a character like Canas is just starting out, I'd regard something like a def only level as terrible but a speed only level as great. Later in the game when he already doubles everything I need him to and is tanking more often, I'd regard a speed only level as mostly junk but appreciate the def one. All that aside, it doesn't matter at all how low or high the game's growths are overall. What matters is how well those growths prepare your units for dealing with the enemy. If you gain 4 in every stat every level, your level ups still aren't good enough if the enemy still crushes you. If you never gain anything but a point of HP per 10 levels but the game is still entirely manageable, that level of growth is fine. Melth fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 14:07
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Melth posted:As usual, it's all about what stats are actually gained. But the growth rates in this game are indeed often a bit lower than in FE7 which is generally (but not entirely accurately) said to have lower growths than 8 which has lower than 9 which has like 25% of the spectacular growths even the terrible people have in 10. Conversly, the game has been beaten at 0% growths by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Merm6Bh1RzI You can watch it here EDIT: Oh Melth, have you mentioned that in FE6 you don't have a lowered EXP gain on hard mode. So it's actually easier to get that rank because more enemies for more EXP Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 14:12
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I think the growth rates in this game are pretty bad. Getting 3 stats in a level up is pretty drat good. I don't have much testing to back it up, since I only played through once because I refused to play through that drat desert map ever again. Almost, but not quite true. FE6 averages about 290-295 growth total, meaning you should expect about three stats on any given level for any given character. FE7 averages 310-315. Those of you who know your stats can see that really, the gains are more or less identical. An FE6 character will, on average, gain one less stat point than an FE7 one over the course of 5 levels. The big difference is that FE6 has no problem giving you units that are very flawed or otherwise hyper-focused. Lilina is basically FE6.png with her 75% magic growth and bad...basically everything else. Really, it's the harder enemies combined with lower hit rates across the board that make your units feel less powerful.
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Apr 27, 2015 14:42
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Or Gonzales's amazing 15% skill growth rate. Though honestly the biggest FE6.png is comparing Niime and Pent. Two similar units fulfilling similar roles, but Pent has decent all around stats, comes with some room to grow and doesn't have *awful* growths, while Niime has absolutely terrible defenses, two levels to go until cap, and 20-or-below growths in everything except HP.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:15
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Melth posted:The old one I believe but I'm not entirely sure I want to switch.. Having the people of Ostia be uptight without their Marquess and having my social knights "Cnt" their "possession items" is part of the game's charm. You might even find that some of your complaints about the story are mollified with the new translation, you never know.  Actual game comments: This is a really good start for Thany/Shanna, since she lives or dies on her strength stat.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:04
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Ah, glad to see you're continuing with another Max Ranking LP! I quite enjoyed reading through the FE 7 one. Despite playing FE games quite a bit throughout the years I rarely find out/remember the real intricate details like weird mechanics or reinforcements, so thorough playthroughs are quite fun to read. I actually quite like FE6 myself, even if I can't deny it's significantly worse than FE7 in a few ways (lack of variety in map design from only having conquer maps, a bad Lord that hamstrings you throughout the game, Marcus's gameplay implementation, etc). I just find it charming, I enjoy the fact that you get plenty of good to amazing recruits with the way HM bonuses work, and the lack of Luna means your other characters aren't obsolete once you get someone capable of using Dark Magic to boot! Only half-kidding on that. Have been working my way through a mundane HM playthrough recently, up to chapter 16. Was hoping to try some less used characters (I actually found place for an Archer last time I played FE6, not so this time) and had some revelations and disappointments on my journey. I'd compare some of the characters who've already shown up here with my run so far as I've had some weird anomalies of the extreme blessed/cursed stat variety, but I don't want to bog down the thread or anything. Looking forward to seeing the ins and outs of the game I missed on my run so far!
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Apr 27, 2015 17:12
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Dieck  Dieck is arguably the single best character in the game. Being a reliable powerhouse from stage 2.
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Apr 27, 2015 17:27
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Onmi posted:
Actually, unless I misread the XP formulas when I looked them over a day or two ago, this is not quite correct. In FE6, you don't have a heightened XP gain on normal mode. I refer you to the War Room part 25 for an in depth look at 7's XP formulae: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3701153&pagenumber=16#post442637935 Oh and so you can see the actual formulae I'm talking about : http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/miscellaneous/calculations/ http://serenesforest.net/blazing-sword/miscellaneous/calculations/ (Bottom of the pages) Anyway, the formulae are exactly the same except: 1) Assassins don't get bonus XP for activating Silencer in FE6 2) FE6 has no "Mode Coefficient" in Experience from Defeating (Base). The mode coefficient in FE7 grants bonus XP in normal mode by dividing a negative number by 2. In FE7 hard mode, the coefficient is just 1 so it does nothing. So FE6 normal mode = FE6 hard mode = FE7 hard mode (And Lyn's normal actually). Edit: I just noticed that war room doesn't go into detail about normal mode like I thought it would, so I'll explain it here. Let's say you're playing FE7 on hard mode and you have Nine level 9, Ten level 10, and Eleven level 11, all fighters. And you're fighting Target, the level 10 fighter. Any of the three can kill Target in one hit this turn. How much XP do they gain from doing so? Nine gets: 32/3 = 10 XP for dealing damage. And he gets 3 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 10 + 3 + 20 = 33 XP total gained Ten gets: 31/3 = 10 XP for dealing damage. And 0 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 10 + 0 + 20 = 30 XP total gained Eleven gets: 30/3 = 10 XP for dealing damage. And -3 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 10 -3 + 20 = 27 XP total gained And so on. Eight would get 37, Seven would get 40, Twelve would get 23, Thirteen would get 20. Now what if you're playing on normal mode? The only difference is in Experience from defeating (base). The Mode Coefficient there remains unchanged at the 1 it was in hard mode UNLESS Experience From Defeating (Base) would negative. In that case, the mode coefficient changes to 2 and experience from defeating (base) is redone with the new coefficient. When is Experience From Defeating (Base) negative? As my example showed, when your level is greater than the enemy's. So if playing normal mode instead, Nine and Ten are completely unchanged: Nine gets: 32/3 = 10 XP for dealing damage. And he gets 3 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 10 + 3 + 20 = 33 XP total gained Ten gets: 31/3 = 10 XP for dealing damage. And 0 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 10 + 0 + 20 = 30 XP total gained Eleven gets: 30/3 = 10 XP for dealing damage. And -3 Experience from Defeating (Base)- wait, that's negative, so the mode coefficient becomes 2 and instead he gets 14 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 10 + 14 + 20 = 44 XP total gained. That's right. Eleven gets more XP than 10 does. By a ton. On normal mode, you actually PROFIT in XP for being slightly overleveled. Let's look at 12 to see where the trend goes. Twelve gets: 29/3 = 9 XP for dealing damage. And -6 Experience from Defeating (Base)- wait, that's negative, so the mode coefficient becomes 2 and instead he gets 12 Experience from Defeating (Base). And then his Experience from Defeating Enemy is therefore 9 + 12 + 20 = 41 XP. And that's basically how the pattern goes. So in essence, normal mode creates massive amounts of XP out of thin air to give to your overleveled units such that being 1 level above the enemy actually gives you more than being the same level. From there on up, increasing your level does slowly decrease your XP gained though. Melth fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 22:36
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Melth posted:1) Assassins don't get bonus XP for activating Silencer in FE6
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Apr 27, 2015 22:42
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Endorph posted:Because they don't exist? That's what they want you to think. Makes the job easier.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:54
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I keep forgetting Ellen is a character in this game. Her starting stats are *terrible* and one of her most important stats, speed, has something like a 20% growth. She gives tissue paper a bad name. FE6 giving loads of characters to you is a mixed blessing since each chapter you'll pick up a few characters, but most of them are middling at best, with a few gems hidden among the rest (Dieck, Dieck and Dieck in this chapter). Dieck might be slightly overshadowed in base stats by other infantry units by the end of the game, but he makes an excellent ax and sword pinch hitter if you need him. That massive con of his means he can wield just about any sword with no penalty from the start, which is nice when the game throws swarms of ax users at you in random chapters.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:57
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FoolyCharged posted:I'm just gonna take a guess and assume his issue with that was less the social knight thing, and more the usuable of the weapon thing along with it showing bows while the dude clearly has a lance.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:59
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:The pictures are of separate things; the Japanese in the bow picture says "archer". Right. Originally there was going to be a 3rd picture of the paladin with some more mundane typos showing too but I decided that wasn't worth pointing out afterall.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:19
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Krumbsthumbs posted:That massive con of his means he can wield just about any sword with no penalty from the start, which is nice when the game throws swarms of ax users at you in random chapters. The Steel Blade is the only sword in the game to give Dieck a speed penalty, a grand total of -1 Speed. Then he promotes and even that doesn't weigh him down anymore. Granted, upon promotion there will be Axes that weigh him down. But he can use Hand Axes (AKA the most important Axe for Heroes) without penalty.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:35
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Dr Pepper posted:The Steel Blade is the only sword in the game to give Dieck a speed penalty, a grand total of -1 Speed. Then he promotes and even that doesn't weigh him down anymore. And Killer axes, which are relatively cheap, come in the Western Isles in Chapter 11, and from that point in the game onwards all challenge has been lost.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:42
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Dr Pepper posted:The Steel Blade is the only sword in the game to give Dieck a speed penalty, a grand total of -1 Speed. Then he promotes and even that doesn't weigh him down anymore. Yea, which means he's extremely flexible for an infantry unit, even if his stats don't stay up to par. His main competition, Oujay, doesn't have his con so Dieck can use heavier weapons to make up some disparity in their stats at roughly even levels. I think the point everyone is stating is Dieck is really damned good and we all like using him.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:53
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Melth posted:3) Some enemies drop weapons when they die (this will be green and flashing in their inventory). 
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Apr 27, 2015 23:54
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Can Of Worms posted:Enemies don't drop items in FE6 A fact which continues to piss me off.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:56
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Can Of Worms posted:Enemies don't drop items in FE6 You know, I was wondering if I remembered that right while writing it.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:56
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There are a lot of little quality of life improvements from FE6 to FE7 that you suddenly realize you miss if you go back.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:08
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Dr Pepper posted:There are a lot of little quality of life improvements from FE6 to FE7 that you suddenly realize you miss if you go back. like being able to use items in the prep screen. There's a lot of reasons I've had to invent base maps.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:09
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Can Of Worms posted:Enemies don't drop items in FE6 Onmi posted:like being able to use items in the prep screen. There's a lot of reasons I've had to invent base maps. The second ended up being rather obvious when I couldn't shove a bunch of stat boosters down Roy's throat post-promotion, but I didn't even notice the "no droppable items" thing until my second playthrough. It's one of those things that's obvious when it's pointed out, but that you don't really think about/notice otherwise. Dr Pepper posted:There are a lot of little quality of life improvements from FE6 to FE7 that you suddenly realize you miss if you go back.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:58
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It's not just 6 to 7 that have quality of life stuff that you'll really miss. The first couple of times you go back to the older titles from the newer ones you'll probably find yourself trying to mouse over enemies to attack on top of being frustrated by needing the unit info screen to check an enemies equipped weapon and having to manually check enemy ranges one by one without an overlay.
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Apr 28, 2015 01:14
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Yeah, every iteration of Fire Emblem has improved the UI. It's quite nice!
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Apr 28, 2015 02:11
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*Looks closely at contract* Oh no! It wasn't just for Artix's! It says I have to do dumb doodles for every FE6 LP!! (it's a bench)
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Apr 28, 2015 02:36
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:12 |
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It looks like a musical staff. Maybe Bors will compose a symphony while guarding it.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:40
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