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wormil posted:I subscribed to that philosophy for years and still do to some extent but what I've found is that cheap tools rarely break outright, they just limp along being unpleasant until you throw them away and buy something better. Buying cheap is something of an art in that there are some things you can get by with (screwdrivers, electric drill) and some things you should just buy quality (adjustable wrenches, jig saws). Right, so, if you don't know which tools you're going to need to use frequently and which ones you'll only need rarely (or never), you buy cheap crap, and then as you use the tools you figure out which ones you need better versions of. If I'm never going to actually need to use that finishing hammer then it doesn't matter that it's a plastic piece of poo poo I paid $2 for, right? On the other hand, the similar-quality claw hammer gets used for a bunch of jobs and I finally get so frustrated with how unpleasant it is to use that I go out and buy one that actually works well. And then give the old one away or something. If you know in advance that you'll be using a given tool a lot, then it makes a lot more sense to buy quality from the get-go. You buy cheap when it's a case of "I need this tool for this one job, and that job's not too big; who knows if I'll need it again afterwards?"
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May 19, 2015 20:11
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ReelBigLizard posted:Buy a cheap tool kit with all the general purpose stuff in it, then every time part of it breaks, buy a high quality replacement for that part. Agreed, but just like buying Harbor Freight: ideally you buy two cheap tool kits, so that when a cheap tool breaks mid-job you don't need to drop everything and go shopping (or retire the project for the evening, since a lot of us with cheap tools are probably fiddling with them after business hours). Then later you go buy the better one at your leisure/when the shops open.
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May 19, 2015 21:13
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Can't say that I've ever regretted buying a good quality tool, even the ones only used occasionally. I have, many times, regretted not buying a good tool sooner.
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May 20, 2015 07:38
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wormil posted:Can't say that I've ever regretted buying a good quality tool, even the ones only used occasionally. I have, many times, regretted not buying a good tool sooner. Pretty much, having a good tool for the task is so much nicer than re-purposing a sorta-close tool, or having a poo poo quality tool to start with.
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May 20, 2015 20:07
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Pretty much, having a good tool for the task is so much nicer than re-purposing a sorta-close tool, or having a poo poo quality tool to start with. And an OMT is a good all-around tool, especially for a first time home owner. They can be used (and function well) for many tasks that are common around the house: modifying trim/cutting baseboard, cutting outlet boxes into drywall/plaster, sanding, removing grout/cutting out cracked tile, scraping paint or glue... I wasn't suggesting that he buy a high-end planer or trim router, which would only be useful in limited situations. And yes, buy some decent hand tools. A good hammer, toolbelt, drill/impact combo, screwdrivers/bits, and some prybars are all necessary if you are planning on doing demo/rehab projects. Only buy the high-dollar specialty tools after you've exhausted your beg/borrow/steal options. I borrow a flooring stapler every time I need to do floors, ditto with a framing nailer. However, I own a 3-piece kit of trim nailers/staplers that I got on sale at Home Depot. Very Very useful, but only because I've got a gently caress-all huge compressor and loads of air lines. Otherwise, I'd be borrowing those as well.
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May 20, 2015 21:23
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Was just at everyones fave single use tool outlet and was given flyers sating that June 5&6 is the cheap tools extravaganza at harbor freight.
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May 23, 2015 02:33
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Harbor Freight is having a 20% off sale for memorial day weekend. I need a tap and die set, time to toss the dice.
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May 23, 2015 16:21
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Catfish Stevens posted:Harbor Freight is having a 20% off sale for memorial day weekend. I need a tap and die set, time to toss the dice. 1 item with coupon.
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May 23, 2015 17:18
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I posted earlier on the topic of machining aluminum on a router table for boat portlight (window) frames. I ended up settling on eMachineShop.com which I knew nothing about. But I downloaded their software last night and had a model shortly after. The quote for the basic oval 13x6" shape in 0.187 6061 aluminum came in at $165 for 5 frames (so two portlights total with an extra frame) including shipping with a 5-day turn. It's hard to argue with that given my alternatives (local machine shop quoted $800, or buy expensive retail portlights which requires fiberglass work to fit). It's a compromise on the alloy (not "marine" grade) and I didn't round over the edges (would have added $300) but it's a pretty neat service and their software is solid. I may still experiment with a round-over or chamfer bit on the router table for the edges.
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May 23, 2015 17:29
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Catfish Stevens posted:Harbor Freight is having a 20% off sale for memorial day weekend. I need a tap and die set, time to toss the dice. Go for the more expensive one. I have the cheaper 21 piece set and have some issues with it, mostly that one of the taps, 7/16, is marked the wrong size. I haven't even been able to figure out what size it is, metric I think. The handles that come with it are all but garbage.
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May 23, 2015 18:04
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wormil posted:Go for the more expensive one. I have the cheaper 21 piece set and have some issues with it, mostly that one of the taps, 7/16, is marked the wrong size. I haven't even been able to figure out what size it is, metric I think. The handles that come with it are all but garbage. I have heard a lot about the HF tap and die sets and it's alllll been bad. I think Irwin is the thread go-to, along with the note that of all the tools to buy cheap, a tap and die set isn't one of them. When you need one, you drat sure need it to work and work right, it's not like snapping a screwdriver tip or something.
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May 23, 2015 19:32
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Well, thanks guys for jumping in. I was pretty confident I was going to get something bad for $15 but willing to roll the dice for that cheap; I guess it's time to finally just get a premium set soon. I'll probably hold out for Father's Day, might be able to find a better deal then.
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May 23, 2015 19:48
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tater_salad posted:everyones fave single use tool outlet Dude don't jinx my 3 ton jack impulse buy
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May 23, 2015 20:59
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Splizwarf posted:I have heard a lot about the HF tap and die sets and it's alllll been bad. I think Irwin is the thread go-to, along with the note that of all the tools to buy cheap, a tap and die set isn't one of them. When you need one, you drat sure need it to work and work right, it's not like snapping a screwdriver tip or something. Seconding this. Depending on the number of pieces, english & metric etc, a good tap and die set can set you back a few hundred. As for making them last, like most things in life, you can never use too much lube.
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May 23, 2015 21:24
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Splizwarf posted:I have heard a lot about the HF tap and die sets and it's alllll been bad. I think Irwin is the thread go-to, along with the note that of all the tools to buy cheap, a tap and die set isn't one of them. When you need one, you drat sure need it to work and work right, it's not like snapping a screwdriver tip or something. Oh I know, I just blew a bunch of my cash on my CNC mill project, so at that price I figured I might give HF a whirl. Not specifically for my mill or anything, just tinkering around. I wouldn't be willing to roll the dice with HF of all sources if it was anything important.
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May 23, 2015 23:10
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For tinkering, maybe it's worth it. For Serious Business, hell no. It'd probably stand up fine to plastic or soft metals; iirc the main complaints circle around the set being made of really poo poo steel and sometimes coming with burrs, with a poor temper to top it off.
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May 24, 2015 02:26
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Splizwarf posted:For tinkering, maybe it's worth it. For Serious Business, hell no. It'd probably stand up fine to plastic or soft metals; iirc the main complaints circle around the set being made of really poo poo steel and sometimes coming with burrs, with a poor temper to top it off. Pretty much this. Chinesium is at it's core a recycled metal product. Mix a bunch of scrap steel in a melt furnace, heat it until it's mostly liquid, pour. So you get mild steel scrap mixed with ball bearing, some stainless, and god only knows what. And it's rarely properly degassed or mixed completely, not to mention the alloy contents are generously left to whatever the hell the originals were, maybe minus whatever burnt off or stuck to the flux. Because of the lack of complete mixing, or an alloying ratio that is even mostly known or even makes sense, when you go to give it a batch heat treat and temper, individual taps and dies can end up with wildly varying alloy contents and subsequent tempers. Then you cut most of it away, and try to thread it into something to cut threads, and it snaps like a twig because the overly high carbon and manganese content left it brittle as glass. Taps are one of the few things I'd really suggest people, even first time homeowner types, should spend real money on to get a quality product. Because nothing is as lovely as having your project become scrap due to a broken tap, or having to take a week off from it while you chemically remove the broken tap from the block of aluminum you're working on. Methylethylaldehyde fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 03:25
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I knew I shouldn't have looked at any of the tool sales today. Now I've decided I might as well just go ahead and get a premium set. Because I might actually need it. Someday. And tinkering is very important upon further reflection. Somebody mentioned Irwin, looking at those. What about Bosch? Just saw a set from them. Most of my power tools are Bosch and I think they are fantastic, but I don't know what their reputation is for hand tools and it isn't like these take a proprietary 18V battery. The only Irwin tools I own are a bunch of various pliers which are exceptional and usually the ones I reach for. My philosophy with tools generally (other than today) is just get the really good poo poo. I'm more of an electronics guy so I don't have to use these kinds of tools often, but I'm picking some extra hobbies up lately. EDIT: It also helps that if I spend over $200 on Bosch at Amazon, Amazon gives me $50 but that really isn't as important as getting the right set of tools. Catfish Stevens fucked around with this message at 04:02 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 03:57
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Splizwarf posted:I have heard a lot about the HF tap and die sets and it's alllll been bad. I think Irwin is the thread go-to I bought them for threading wood and plastic, and cleaning threads on old nuts/bolts. For that they are just fine other than one is the wrong size and the terrible handles. I actually have some nice quality taps in certain sizes, I buy them as I need them. Catfish Stevens posted:What about Bosch? I have some Bosch taps, they are good quality and I have no complaints.
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May 24, 2015 05:14
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I'm not sure if it's important to you, but Irwin taps and dies still have a good reputation because they kept the Hanson name and they are still made in the US (not all Irwin stuff is, but the Taps and Dies are). I'm pretty sure they private label their product for Snap-On, Matco, etc, so if you can get a Hanson set for cheaper, it's still really the same thing.
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May 24, 2015 16:39
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Taps are definitely worth spending good money on. I've gotten lots of old USA HSS taps at yard sales, plus I get boxes from eBay. On larger stuff, you can get away with mid grade cutting tools, but when it comes to machine screw threads, I stick with industrial brands like Hertel. And use legit cutting fluid. Used oil doesn't work nearly as well as Tap Magic or Rapid Tap. You can get it from ENCO or MSC cheap enough.
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May 24, 2015 20:14
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FYI, I ended up getting this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006WZOGPM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1AUFI5NHGNZ61
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May 25, 2015 07:29
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I'm getting more into woodworking, but both my budget and my available space are limited. I've set up shop in the one-car garage under our condo, but we also keep our car down there, so any tools I use have to be wheeled out of the way at night. Right now, that consists of a small table saw on a shop-built cart, an attached router table (also shop-built), and a shop vac/2-bucket Thien baffle dust collector. I intend to buy a small 9" bandsaw and a small benchtop drill press. I was wondering if any of y'all have direct experience with these products and/or are familiar with the quality control level of different brands' cheap tools. You don't need to tell me that a 9" bandsaw will be of limited usefulness. I already know. I need a small bandsaw as a stopgap because I'm terrible with a jigsaw (can't see what the hell I'm doing) and I can use it to help build a 14" Wandel bandsaw when I have the space for something bigger. For the drill press, I see similar models from Ryobi, Skil, HF, and Rikon, with little to differentiate them. For the bandsaw, I see Craftsman, Skil, Ryobi, and HF, with some favorable reviews of the Craftsman model. Does anyone have any experience with any of these tools one way or the other? I know HF is likely to be the bottom of the barrel, and given the similar price I don't plan on going with them unless there's some compelling reason of which I am currently unaware. All of these tools cost about $150. If there's something obviously superior within about $100 of that point, I'd be willing to stretch for it, but lately all of my money has been going into buying wood. I'd rather have OK tools and the supplies to use them often than great tools that I can't use because I don't have any wood.
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May 30, 2015 00:25
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I read a bunch of reviews on the cheap 9" band saws, and there were some minor variations, and the Craftsman seemed to have some better quality bits inside, but overall they seemed pretty much comparable. Peruse your local Craigslist though, as these things are purchased, lightly (or never) used, and then sold on the cheap like crazy. I got a Ryobi 9" bandsaw and a Craftsman scroll saw together for $50. They both work fine, but need new blades - not because they are worn out, but because the blades that come on these cheap tools are cheap crappy blades, so buying new would pretty much be the same, except cost a lot more.
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May 30, 2015 02:48
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King Hotpants posted:I'm getting more into woodworking, but both my budget and my available space are limited. I've set up shop in the one-car garage under our condo, but we also keep our car down there, so any tools I use have to be wheeled out of the way at night. Right now, that consists of a small table saw on a shop-built cart, an attached router table (also shop-built), and a shop vac/2-bucket Thien baffle dust collector. I've used a Wolfcraft drill stand for years in lieu of a proper drill press. Obviously it can't do everything a big free standing drill press can, but with a few clamps and some jigs it'll make your handheld drill a good-enough drill press. The one downside in my case is that my drill only has speed control on the trigger, so I really do need to clamp everything in place because I need 2 hands to operate the faux drill press, which can be a bit of a hassle. Does keep my hands away from the sharp bits, so I guess that's the advantage in the disadvantage. http://www.wolfcraft.com/en/products/p/drill_stands/1_drill_stand/s/p/index.html Nice cast iron ones like the Wolfcraft run about $100, chinesium ones can be had for as little as $30. Other than that, for a drill press, I'd say scour your flavour of craigslist for a used free standing drill press. Just slap some wheels on it. It's an annoying realisation when you find yourself loving about with a doweling jig and a handheld drill, because the workpiece won't fit in your shiny new drill press.
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May 30, 2015 03:23
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My advice is to not buy a 9" bandsaw. They are too small to do much of anything and if you really want to get into woodworking. you will soon surpass what a 9" saw can do. I had a 9" Delta and it was garbage. Not enough power to cut more than 1/2" plywood. Get at least a 12" saw if not a 14". I think a bandsaw really is a tool where bigger is better.
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May 30, 2015 03:33
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No smaller than 14" is what I would say, and those aren't that big either.
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May 30, 2015 06:38
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I found a 9" bandsaw infinitely more useful than no bandsaw and mine has no problem cutting within it's capacity as long as the wood isn't too hard. I've made bandsaw boxes with it. I will say, don't spend much money on a small bandsaw because I'm not sure there is much difference between a top of the line 9" and mediocre 9"; they just aren't built to the same standards as 14" saws. BTW, my 9" bs is a 1958 Powr-Kraft that cost me $30. As for drill presses, not sure what to tell you. A cheap DP is better than no DP. I bought a 70's Taiwanese machine that was sold by Jet. It's an in between size, bigger than a benchtop and shorter than a free standing.
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May 30, 2015 07:19
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His Divine Shadow posted:No smaller than 14" is what I would say, and those aren't that big either. I strongly disagree. Of course it always depends on what you're doing but I followed this advice to having no bandsaw for years and as soon as I bought one (last on my list of major tools after things like joiner and planer) I regretted not having one in the past. Besides cost, space was also a problem, a full standup was never going to happen. At $120 new or less used it's a no-brainier to have a 9" parked in a decent shop. Besides excelling at curves and handling metal well it's my go-to for random small general purpose cuts because it's quicker, safer and quieter than the table saw. And honestly 9" can do a lot. King Hotpants posted:I'm getting more into woodworking, but both my budget and my available space are limited. I've set up shop in the one-car garage under our condo, but we also keep our car down there, so any tools I use have to be wheeled out of the way at night. Right now, that consists of a small table saw on a shop-built cart, an attached router table (also shop-built), and a shop vac/2-bucket Thien baffle dust collector. I might suggest considering other tools (miter saw, table saw) before a drill press but for the drill press in particular I'd look hard at craigslist. Drill presses have barely changed in decades and age well. Re: Router table and aluminium. I used a 1/8" Ryobi roundover bit on the my aluminum portlight frames last night. I won't say it cut them like butter but it did the job. Though it was was clear that I was pushing that blade to its limits so I didn't roundover the inside edge which with the blade captive in the peice generally made me more nervous. I'm not sure if it was the crappy blade (I opted for the Ryobi roundover set for $20 instead of a single diablo for $30) or not. My earlier test with a 45 degree bit made it seem like it was going to be a piece of cake. After hitting the edges with sandpaper and a wire wheel though it all came out pretty good. After hitting the asdf32 fucked around with this message at 15:47 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 14:41
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I just discovered a new youtube channel that some of you guys might like. He's the only person I've ever seen that actually does teardown reviews of tools. Completely takes them apart and checks out where the likely areas of failure are and see where the manufacturers cheaped out and where they did some nice designing. He's also pretty funny. Powerfist (similar to harbour freight) reciprocating saw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LLZyUe7-I8 Dewalt grinder review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWH5bfpivSU He's got a bunch more including a makita hypoid saw and some milwaukee drills I think.
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May 30, 2015 16:51
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Squibbles posted:I just discovered a new youtube channel that some of you guys might like. AVE/Kris has been mentioned quite a few times here. Definitely a different review style and worth the watch. the spyder fucked around with this message at 18:21 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 18:14
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I support him on Patreon, he's that good.
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May 31, 2015 03:00
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Catfish Stevens posted:Harbor Freight is having a 20% off sale for memorial day weekend. I need a tap and die set, time to toss the dice. I bought one of these sets to do a couple aluminum threads with for a quick art project and misc use in the future. The taps I got work fine, but the dies in my set literally cannot cut anything. I even tried them on a piece of nylon rod and they wouldn't cut. Good taps and dies are really worth it if you can spare the cash or buy them over time and wait for each size to come in the mail.
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May 31, 2015 03:18
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Squibbles posted:I just discovered a new youtube channel that some of you guys might like. Its like phillip seymour hoffman doing tool reviews.
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May 31, 2015 03:41
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sharkytm posted:I support him on Patreon, he's that good. Hah me too. I only discovered him this week and decided I had to support him because he seems to be the only one that does tool reviews like that plus he's from my home down 
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May 31, 2015 06:12
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Thanks for the feedback.The Locator posted:Peruse your local Craigslist though, as these things are purchased, lightly (or never) used, and then sold on the cheap like crazy. Craigslist in Las Vegas is awful and I hate using it. People will post the Ryobi 9" bandsaw that costs $130 new, except it's obviously used and still priced at $130. I don't have the time or patience to haggle with jackasses, so I mostly avoid it. Deedle posted:Other than that, for a drill press, I'd say scour your flavour of craigslist for a used free standing drill press. Just slap some wheels on it. It's an annoying realisation when you find yourself loving about with a doweling jig and a handheld drill, because the workpiece won't fit in your shiny new drill press. Freestanding's no good. It needs to go under a bench when not in use. I've already hit my limit for floor space use. mds2 posted:My advice is to not buy a 9" bandsaw... Get at least a 12" saw if not a 14". I think a bandsaw really is a tool where bigger is better. His Divine Shadow posted:No smaller than 14" is what I would say, and those aren't that big either. That's not an option right now. I don't have the space or the money, and... wormil posted:I found a 9" bandsaw infinitely more useful than no bandsaw This is where I'm coming from. I'm not expecting it to re-saw hardwood. I'm not expecting much, really. asdf32 posted:I might suggest considering other tools (miter saw, table saw) before a drill press but for the drill press in particular I'd look hard at craigslist. Drill presses have barely changed in decades and age well. I already have a table saw with a good crosscut sled so I don't have a pressing need for a miter saw.
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May 31, 2015 07:09
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Any recommendations for a good reasonably priced LED flashlight? I have at least a dozen bought over the years, every single one cuts on and off as you move. And don't say Maglite, they are garbage, always have been.
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Jun 1, 2015 04:47
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Fenix makes some good flashlights. Or if you want something high powered with relatively good battery life, get a work light compatible with your power tool batteries.
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Jun 1, 2015 05:03
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wormil posted:Any recommendations for a good reasonably priced LED flashlight? I have at least a dozen bought over the years, every single one cuts on and off as you move. And don't say Maglite, they are garbage, always have been. Good news! there is a wide variety of LED flashlights availible these days, ranging from  to  Seconding Fenix, they cover most price ranges. The E series is the (still quite good) low end, I use an E11 at work, but it's been replaced by the E12. It kinda depends what you mean by flashlight. What size were you looking for, and what kinda batteries do you want it to use?
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Jun 1, 2015 05:18
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Make one of these. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c--5c3Egv4E
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Jun 1, 2015 05:36
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