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The MSJ posted:Ultimate Ben has become 616 Rockslide, a mutant who used to resemble grey Thing until he exploded and reformed into a craggy golem thing. Has he? I haven't taken note of him in Ultimate End but in the Ultimate Doom trilogy he retained all of his Thing power but regained his human form. Agreed on need Rockslide in the X-Men films though. 
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Aug 9, 2015 07:35
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I was always under the impression that comics Thing wasn't actually rock, but some kind of super-hard calloused rock-like skin.
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Aug 9, 2015 07:40
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Jamesman posted:I was always under the impression that comics Thing wasn't actually rock, but some kind of super-hard calloused rock-like skin. Yeah, there was one instance where Wolverine slashed his face with his adamantium claws and hosed it up pretty good, exposing the raw flesh underneath.
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Aug 9, 2015 07:49
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah, there was one instance where Wolverine slashed his face with his adamantium claws and hosed it up pretty good, exposing the raw flesh underneath. He got his rear end whupped by some Mindless Ones during the Mark Waid run, they cracked his shell. Doom later killed him and I think he bled green blood.
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Aug 9, 2015 07:53
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In another comic one of his "rocks" fell off and left a hole at the bottom which was some layer like skin.
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Aug 9, 2015 07:56
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Ah ha ha ha, I just realised what the end fight with DOOOOOM where they defeat him by knocking him into his own giant energy beam weapon reminded me of: the ending of Ben Stiller's superhero parody Mystery Men where he defeated Casanova Frankenstein by knocking him his own giant energy beam weapon. Except immediately after the MM battle they made a public statement about teamwork and appreciating others and supporting independent film and then went home to their loving families who now had a newfound respect for them, in F4 they immediately have a boardroom meeting with the US military and argue about intellectual copyright and facility leases.
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Aug 9, 2015 09:00
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Rhyno posted:Uh, the latter. His body took a little while to grow his new flame safe skin. It's been years since I read it but at first Reed was worried their powers would kill all of them slowly. Johnny's body just took a bit longer to change. Brian Michael Bendis later ran with this and had Ben evolve out of his rocky shell into a being with energy powers. Nah, in Bendis' run on Ultimate Fantastic Four it worked fine from the get go. Under Ellis he fell ill while the were exploring the negative zone, but it turned out he justed needed to slough of his old skin.
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Aug 9, 2015 09:06
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Haha I remember that molting arc. What a silly thing. I've never heard of the Thing being a being of pure energy, though. I don't even know what to think about that.
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Aug 9, 2015 09:32
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Fantastic Four has 136 negative critic reviews, is it really that bad? I am so disappointed, the teaser and the trailers made it look like this would be really good.
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Aug 9, 2015 09:58
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Is flameboy actually in burning pain at the beginning or maybe just freaking out cause he's not used to being on fire?
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Aug 9, 2015 10:02
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I believe he wakes up, starts screaming because he's on loving fire while strapped to a table, pretty much explodes and falls unconcious again (and remains on fire). I imagine that process repeated several times before he we was in concious state (of course we'll never know because they quickly skip ahead a year).
Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 10:07
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I said come in! posted:Fantastic Four has 136 negative critic reviews, is it really that bad? I am so disappointed, the teaser and the trailers made it look like this would be really good. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 10:38
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Got back from Fant4stic earlier today. Wanted it to be great but instead it was merely passable. I appreciated that a lot of the characterization isn't spelled out in thumpingly obvious dialogue, but the story skips around so hard it feels like we're watching clips from a better movie. The acting is mostly really understated and I liked that. The characters aren't cartoons. The scene with Reed and Ben in the plane especially is really well done. Some of the CGI is weirdly atrocious, but Reed's powers look cool and the way they have him fight is very inventive and visually slick. Doom and Ben are both excellently brought to life, and Doom's rampage is awesome. Wish the movie had gone balls out on the horror and darkness honestly, as it is it falls between two stools. Clearly a kludged-together mess of a movie. The way they take out Doom at the end is pretty great but man that was one short finale. The cinematography also veers wildly between very attractive and workmanlike.
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Aug 9, 2015 11:03
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I said come in! posted:Fantastic Four has 136 negative critic reviews, is it really that bad? I am so disappointed, the teaser and the trailers made it look like this would be really good. I'm sure a lot of those are, like me, remarking that it's just a flawed film with some good stuff in there too. Unfortunately with RT a rating of two and a half stars is as 'rotten' as half a star which is why going by Rotten score is just dumb.
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Aug 9, 2015 11:08
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Harime Nui posted:I'm sure a lot of those are, like me, remarking that it's just a flawed film with some good stuff in there too. Unfortunately with RT a rating of two and a half stars is as 'rotten' as half a star which is why going by Rotten score is just dumb. How about a 3.4/10 average critic score from RT, or a C- CinemaScore which is historically low for a comic book movie, even Catwoman got a B. e: and no, most of the critic reviews are saying it's completely terrible
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Aug 9, 2015 11:15
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Harime Nui posted:Some of the CGI is weirdly atrocious Harime Nui posted:The cinematography also veers wildly between very attractive and workmanlike. A rather large chunk of the film was hastily thrown together in reshoots after Fox and the director fell out. Does anyone know if Trank still wanted to use l33t hacker Doom in his version of the film?
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Aug 9, 2015 11:20
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Ferrinus posted:Jor-El does make dissenting noises, though. His final message to Superman is that Superman is meant to be a bridge between two peoples, and that he can save them - "save all of them" (another line I really should've been harping on, because it's 'all of them', not 'only the humans'). The computer program clearly repudiates Zod's plan to destroy humanity. "You can save all of them" is actually incredibly important to Jor-El. It connects with everything we know about his real plan; that Kal will be a god to the humans, that he will be a symbol of hope, that he will lead them and keep them from repeating Krypton's mistakes. I have I told you my version of the basic elements of Jor-El's plan many times by now. His most important reason for putting the codex in Kal was so that Krypton would live again in andd through him. The issue here is what, if anything, Jor-El was planning on telling Kal. As I have said, this includes some speculation. My theory is that Jor-El either wasn't planning on telling Kal anything, until Zod ruined it, or that he was only going to tell Kal about the Codex once he was reasonably sure that Kal would make the "right" decision, that is to say, his own. Again, this is just speculation. But I think it's supported by Jor-El's words and actions, and omissions. The fact that he never even tells Kal about the Codex, even when his plan comes under threat, is only the most obvious. It doesn't have to be a choice between humans and Kryptonians, it only comes to that when Jor-El neglects to take any measures at all to protect the Scout ship which is, according to you, absolutely essential to his big plan. Whether or not Kal would have been able, after saving Lois, to keep the Scout ship safe from Zod or not is far less interesting than the fact that Jor-El never even told him to try, or, again, to at least do everything in his power to make sure that it wasn't destroyed. Once again, the fact that Jor-El never mentions it, either directly to Kal or to Lois when he tells her how to destroy Zod's ship (assuming that she didn't just decide to keep that to herself), suggests that it is no longer important to his plans now that he has given Kal his instructions and the suit. Jor-El does not give Kal the codex, he makes Kal the codex. His command key does not activate the genesis chamber, unlike Zod's. He never gives him the choice of using it to bring back the Kryptonians through the Genesis chamber, for the very simple and obvious reason that he doesn't want him to. quote:I'm quoting this separately because I want to emphasize that it does not indicate that Zod's command ship was a former interstellar starship. That is a thing you made up whole cloth without even bothering to check for evidence or even basic plausibility (the age of interstellar expansion predated Jor-El by centuries). quote:I've bolded your lastmost sentence here because I don't think you can prove it. Jor-El specifies that society expects Kryptonian babies to grow up to be one thing or another. Jor-El never makes reference to any concrete mental or physical difference between Kal-El and other Kryptonians arising from Kal-El's physiology. Jor-El is never seen to be limited by his own artisanally-crafted genetic code, and more importantly he is never seen to think that he is limited - where Zod makes repeated reference to his inborn purpose, Jor-El never appears to believe that his designation as a scientist directly limits his capabilities, and neither does he appear to enter some kind of dissociative episode in the course of diving into the active genesis chamber or brawling with Zod. Jor-El: This is a Genesis Chamber. All Kryptonians were conceived in chambers such as this. Every child was designed to fulfill a predetermined role in our society; as a worker, a warrior, a leader and so on. Your mother and I believed Krypton lost something precious, the element of choice, of chance. What if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society had intended for him or her? What if a child aspired to something greater? You were the embodiment of that belief, Kal, Krypton's first natural birth in centuries. That's why we risked so much to save you." Jor-El is specific and explicit when it comes to the link between natural birth and freedom of choice. The role of the Genesis chamber is perfectly clear, and you have to pretend that there is a clean break between "....such as this." and "Every child...". In order for your reading to work. The fact that Jor-El was Krypton's ultimate man of action, when he was supposed to be its foremost scientist, is interesting in itself. Zod supposedly spent his entire life training to be a warrior, but Jor-El easily defeats him and his chosen soldiers. This does not make sense even if we ignore genetic engineering. A person who dedicates his entire life to becoming a skilled warrior should be able to easily defeat one who spends his entire working as a scientist. As so very often, Jor-El is more than meets the eye. The point of the Genesis chamber, however, is that it creates Kryptonians for set purposes of serving Kryptonian society in various capacitites. Your reading of MoS, where Jor-El wanted to transplant Krypton onto Earth by using the Genesis chamber, leads to the conclusion that Jor-El just found a creative and extremely elaborate way of serving his alloted function. It would then follow that Kal did reject Jor-El's plan by destroying the Scout ship. The problem is that this would mean that Jor-El was completely right about the Genesis chamber, and that natural birth was the decisive factor which allowed Kal to destroy the last vestige of old Krypton. It was, according to Jor-El's story. Population control, enacted through the genesis chamber, caused Krypton to turn away from coloniasim. Again, if this story doesn't make sense then we should question whether Jor-El is telling the truth or not. As with the effect of Genesis chamber on free choice and the corresponding importance of natural birth, Jor-El's beliefs is the important part. And your alternative explanations are unfounded speculation far worse than anything I'm guilty of. They are completely unnecessary since we have Jor-El's clear own words to go by. The only reason you need them is because those words happen to contradict your reading. Which is a problem. quote:Same way Kryptonian-Human coexistence already works when there's a single Kryptonian? Superman is living proof that Kryptonians, properly raised, can survive and thrive on earth and add to, not subtract from, human flourishing. I do indeed. You use this imagined/invented difference to ignore the words and actions of the character whenever it doesn't fit your reading. And I will do no such thing!
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Aug 9, 2015 11:40
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah, there was one instance where Wolverine slashed his face with his adamantium claws and hosed it up pretty good, exposing the raw flesh underneath. If I remember correctly Thing wore a mask after that, because his face was disfigured. I really liked that.
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Aug 9, 2015 11:44
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I think that Guardians of the Galaxy is the best Fantastic Four movie we're ever going to see. That or Incredibles.
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Aug 9, 2015 13:05
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I think Jor-el made up his whole natural birth philosophy cause he didn't like condoms.
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Aug 9, 2015 13:16
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Grendels Dad posted:If I remember correctly Thing wore a mask after that, because his face was disfigured. I really liked that. Ohhhh, I actually remember this! When I was younger, we used to go to the comic shop, and the guys that ran it made custom figures. They made one of Thing with a mask on.
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Aug 9, 2015 13:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:no nerd has ever said "I don't care what you call it! I just want to see characters personifying the balance of the four elements who explore New-Age spirituality while battling against Progressivism and the Enlightenment!" It's because nerds have actually read the comics and realize that interpretation has almost nothing to do with them from a practical, storytelling perspective. Want to impress me? Make a Fantastic Four movie that actually incorporates that, but still looks and acts consistent with the source material. I think calling a lovely adaptation artistry is just covering up for laziness. It's the same as claiming something is unfilmable, when it's just that the person saying that doesn't have the vision to create that specific film. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 14:15
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You're right, nerds love to cite the legendary Lee/Kirby run without having read any of it.
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Aug 9, 2015 14:49
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Surlaw posted:I'd be good with a Mole Man "solo film." Do the story where he marries Aunt May. Is it possible for us to still get that Aunt May solo movie? It needs a small re-write to instead be about an octogenarian marrying a mole person, but I think the concept is there. Get the Grace & Frankie writers or something, I don't know. edit: Or hell, have this be the B plot in a main-run spiderman movie. Build up the moleman plot as being the secondary villain, then at the end just have them get happily married without a fight of any kind. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 15:04
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Lilly Tomlin would be spectacular as Aunt May.
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Aug 9, 2015 15:46
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Hollismason posted:Lilly Tomlin would be spectacular as Aunt May. Now we're talking.
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Aug 9, 2015 15:47
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Harime Nui posted:I'm sure a lot of those are, like me, remarking that it's just a flawed film with some good stuff in there too. Unfortunately with RT a rating of two and a half stars is as 'rotten' as half a star which is why going by Rotten score is just dumb. You should take it with some grain of salt, yes, but 136 negative reviews isn't just some inconsistency in RT's average rating system.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:11
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Hollismason posted:Lilly Tomlin would be spectacular as Aunt May. Only if we get Steve Martin as Doc Oc or the Vulture, opening the way for Superior Aunt May: All of Me Too.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:55
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DFu4ever posted:It's because nerds have actually read the comics and realize that interpretation has almost nothing to do with them from a practical, storytelling perspective.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:00
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Fantastic 4 was just okay. Had some good bits, had some bad bits. It certainly isn't Cinema-Hitler or anything. Some of the effects were pretty nice. That boss guy chewing all the time, even in his radiation suit thing really annoyed me for some reason though. I was hoping Doom would just pop up and fry him asap, and he did. Doom was fine, I'd heard horror stories about how they hosed him up but he was no worse than the previous times I've seen him on the big screen. Well, after he got off Assassin's Creed and cleaned himself up a bit and then got turned into metal. It'd be nice to see him all done up like he is apparently in the comics, with being a dictator of some Marvel country and having all his doombots and timetravel and demons and stuff some day though. The fight was really short, I was expecting Doom to come back out all jazzed up but then he was just gone. The triumphant music when they got back made me laugh, what with everything blown to poo poo. Oh, and them basically blackmailing/threatening the government into giving them a big gently caress-off facility was funny. Oh, and Reed suddenly switching from "I'll make you all better" to "gently caress it, powers are cool". I mean, that seems to be a Fantastic 4 origin story thing, but it felt way more abrupt here. It does really feel like great chunks of stuff ended up on the cutting room floor. Oh, and where the gently caress was Stan Lee? For gently caress's sake. Maybe he was in there and I missed him, but if that's the case, they hosed it up.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:02
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Mierenneuker posted:I believe he wakes up, starts screaming because he's on loving fire while strapped to a table, pretty much explodes and falls unconcious again (and remains on fire). I imagine that process repeated several times before he we was in concious state (of course we'll never know because they quickly skip ahead a year). Yeah, a man waking up on fire is going to be terrified whether it "hurts" or not. That was good, and I thought we'd see more of that as they learned how to get used to their new bodies. I thought Reed in the air ducts was really great, gross stuff too. Instead we get ONE YEAR LATER and a couple cool looking scenes stuck in a montage on a monitor.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:08
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Why wasn't Stan Lee in the Fantastic Four movie, he's been in like almost all of the Marvel movies, maybe excepting Blade which isn't something he created.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:24
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Hollismason posted:Why wasn't Stan Lee in the Fantastic Four movie, he's been in like almost all of the Marvel movies, maybe excepting Blade which isn't something he created. It's not hard to guess why.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:29
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I said come in! posted:It's not hard to guess why. His part was cut as he was one of the oodleplexes of people Thing killed in some montages?
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Aug 9, 2015 17:33
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DFu4ever posted:Make a Fantastic Four movie that actually incorporates that, but still looks and acts consistent with the source material. Why is it okay when comic writers deviate from the source material and not when anyone else does it? Superman, as he exists in this day and age, has almost nothing to do with the original source material.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:40
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DFu4ever posted:It's because nerds have actually read the comics and realize that interpretation has almost nothing to do with them from a practical, storytelling perspective. You haven't read the comics.
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Aug 9, 2015 17:45
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:You're right, nerds love to cite the legendary Lee/Kirby run without having read any of it. I own the entire run in Essentials form. Like I said it's a game of two halves. The first half is Stan Lee's edict that the characters would get in conflicts with each other and argue and have drama, as opposed to DC's more purely schematic "here is the problem, let's solve it" approach. The second is the sense of exploration and facing the unknown, as expressed through Kirby's increasingly stylized and elaborate art. The first several issues of the comic are a bit crude looking, not badly illustrated but very basic (and the same is true of the really early Silver Age Marvel stuff in general- scratchy lines and crude backgrounds, where DC had a more polished aesthetic already.) You start to see things develop like the Thing becoming more detailed and geometric, aliens and monsters getting more elaborate, at some point Kirby discovers photocollage and uses it to great effect, etc. There's increasingly more razzle-dazzle as they start to bring in beings and ideas like Galactus, the Silver Surfer and the Power Cosmic, the Watcher, the Inhumans, the Negative Zone and Annihilus (who appears in a story that's also about Sue having Reed's child, so the conflict becomes one of birth against death.) It helps that this was the one comic that Lee and Kirby were on right up until Kirby quit Marvel altogether, which is why it was so central to that era of Marvel's comics, even if eventually the X-Men and Avengers and Spidey became more popular. This may also be the reason it's been harder for subsequent teams to really capture the magic (though there have been well-regarded runs of it.) I think with Doom, one of the key "Original" elements of him, in addition to being a death figure, is that he is a wizard. He's the evil sorcerer in a fairy tale, but also has the magic of 60s Superscience to confound people with. He has a house of traps and terrors, and his first story is bugfuck insane- he captures the FF and holds Sue hostage so that he can send the others back in time to bring him Blackbeard's Treasure, which contains the jewels of Merlin, and he's defeated by being caught in a shrinking ray and being shrunk to subatomic size. Just for fun, everyone have this radio adaptation of the original "Fantastic Four meet Dr. Doom" story with Bill Murray as the Human Torch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZcjR4Z_-wI
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Aug 9, 2015 17:46
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I said come in! posted:Fantastic Four has 136 negative critic reviews, is it really that bad? I am so disappointed, the teaser and the trailers made it look like this would be really good. From what I've heard, almost everything shown in the trailers has been cut. Cythereal posted:I think that Guardians of the Galaxy is the best Fantastic Four movie we're ever going to see. This is the most depressing thing I've ever read.
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Aug 9, 2015 18:25
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I said come in! posted:Fantastic Four has 136 negative critic reviews, is it really that bad? I am so disappointed, the teaser and the trailers made it look like this would be really good. From what I understand, everything in the trailers was cut.
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Aug 9, 2015 18:54
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All filmed footage was cut, the final film is just the Twentieth Century Fox logo and the credits with a mid-credits X-Men v Fant4stic stinger.
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Aug 9, 2015 18:58
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