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Josuke Higashikata posted:Why didn't Rickon hide behind one of the Bolton flayed men burning X's and just flip the bird at Ramsey until Jon caught up? Same reason he didn't run from side to side I guess.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:00
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LOL Dany allied with the babby Greyjoys and her fleet will be sunk by Euron who built 1000 ships in an afternoon because this series has no sense of scale or time.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:12
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Max posted:Is Warden of the North a title you can inherit? I thought that was an appointment made by the crown. It was, I guess. But currently all titles in this show were changed to the "whoever killed the title holder gets the title" type of inheritance Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 16:15
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Max posted:Is Warden of the North a title you can inherit? I thought that was an appointment made by the crown. My guess is, based on medieval society, that it is de jura an appointed title, but de facto inherited. In the show, who cares.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:15
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Max posted:Is Warden of the North a title you can inherit? I thought that was an appointment made by the crown. I think these days the crown will take what it can get. Not like the Tyrells are going to march up to play kingmaker.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:16
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Atreiden posted:My guess is, based on medieval society, that it is de jura an appointed title, but de facto inherited. In the show, who cares. I know, it's just funny that they made a big stink about it in season 5 when Little Finger was appointed Warden of the North, and very little was made of that. Like, no ravens sent to other houses saying "No, the boltons are no longer the supreme authority in the North, stop following them." I only ask because it will probably come up when he surprises everyone in the next episode with that fact and then tries to take the castle.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:19
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Max posted:I know, it's just funny that they made a big stink about it in season 5 when Little Finger was appointed Warden of the North, and very little was made of that. Like, no ravens sent to other houses saying "No, the boltons are no longer the supreme authority in the North, stop following them." Yeah but the show have degenerated to a point where no social code means anything. Guest rights? gently caress'em. Allegiance to your lord? gently caress'it. respecting a flag of truce/ parley? gently caress'it. Kinslaying? All fine and dandy
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Jun 20, 2016 16:27
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Max posted:I know, it's just funny that they made a big stink about it in season 5 when Little Finger was appointed Warden of the North, and very little was made of that. Like, no ravens sent to other houses saying "No, the boltons are no longer the supreme authority in the North, stop following them." That was just to try to make sense of LF giving Sansa to Ramsay
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Jun 20, 2016 16:27
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Max posted:I know, it's just funny that they made a big stink about it in season 5 when Little Finger was appointed Warden of the North, and very little was made of that. Like, no ravens sent to other houses saying "No, the boltons are no longer the supreme authority in the North, stop following them." Well in all fairness, Littlefinger is Warden of the North despite not holding any castles in the north. Why would anyone consider him the authority in place of the Boltons who hold Winterfell.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:28
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TommyGun85 posted:Well in all fairness, Littlefinger is Warden of the North despite not holding any castles in the north. Why would anyone consider him the authority in place of the Boltons who hold Winterfell. It's funny because it feels like the writers forgot about that point. Ramsay was constantly telling people he was warden of the north and apparently no one had heard the news that the title was revoked from his father.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:35
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Max posted:It's funny because it feels like the writers forgot about that point. Ramsay was constantly telling people he was warden of the north and apparently no one had heard the news that the title was revoked from his father. To be fair, I wouldn't want to be the one to tell him that in person either.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:42
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LF being nominated Warden of the North, a show only invention just to give him a reason for that dumb Sansa plot, made Ramsay position even less legitimate The Karstarks would still have a reason to not side with the Starks, but for the Umbers they had to reuse that lame "we really hate wildlings!!!" pretext. And every other house in the north (the ones they ignored) would be flocking to Sansa side because: 1) the Starks were the rightful lords, the Boltons being dishonorable traitors (and peoiple are supposed to care about this poo poo) 2) Ramsay, besides being a Bolton, is a know disgusting psychopat nobody would want as a lord 3) he didnt even had the title his father gained as a reward for treason anymore But instead everyone goes die fighting for him like his charisma is irresistible or something Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 16:53
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That was a really great episode. I mean the writing wasn't that good but you can't honestly expect good writing from the show. We should know what we're watching by now. It was a fun hour. It was satisfying to see Ramsay die in a gruesome way and Sansa to smile about it. That was probably more satisfying than anything that happened in the show or books. GRRM will probably have him get killed in his sleep by Lady Dustin or something.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:54
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The crown also wants Sansa dead for killing Joffrey, so I don't imagine she gives a gently caress about the Warden of the North.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:59
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Atreiden posted:Yeah but the show have degenerated to a point where no social code means anything. Guest rights? gently caress'em. Allegiance to your lord? gently caress'it. respecting a flag of truce/ parley? gently caress'it. Kinslaying? All fine and dandy This is also a theme in the later two books. Everything is falling apart after the Red Wedding (eg guest rights) and often in really gruesome ways (Frey pies). I don't think that degeneration is an accident. The problem, though, is that it's earned in the books. In the show it comes off as lazy writing (which it often is).
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Jun 20, 2016 17:17
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If Sansa had told ANYBODY that she had the backing of the Vale, the great houses would have flocked to her. Think about it, she could have told them that she had her mother's house backing her. "But we hate Wildlings!" shouts house Glover/Umber/Manderly "Which is why I happen to have a giant cavalry force which are reputed to smash the poo poo out of lightly armed freefolk in case they turn on us." "Hmm, fair point. Okay you've got us."
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Jun 20, 2016 17:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:If Sansa had told ANYBODY that she had the backing of the Vale, the great houses would have flocked to her. Think about it, she could have told them that she had her mother's house backing her. Remember one of the key "a wizard did it" excuses in this series: Sansa, Jon Snow and Dany are teenagers.
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Jun 20, 2016 18:23
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Did I watch that episode right? Tormund and Davos slaying the hype monster and saying "Jon is no king"
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Jun 20, 2016 18:48
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Ron Jeremy posted:Did I watch that episode right? Tormund and Davos slaying the hype monster and saying "Jon is no king" Ive read it like "well Jon is just a good guy at least he is not a wannabe king". next episode, if the spoilers are right, he will be declared king, and then Tormund and Davos will exchange a worried look I expect Jon to be just as awful as king as he was a lord commander and a general
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Jun 20, 2016 18:53
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That episode was perfunctory and lame plot-wise but Dany finally doing some Targ style war and the love letter to Mount and Blade nerds was hot enough to win the day. The whole battle was some of the best TV action I've ever seen up to the point where everyone patiently sat and waited for a circle of shields to surround and kill them. And yeah, Jon continues to be the dumbest motherfucker alive or dead or both.
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Jun 20, 2016 18:55
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Would you say he....knows nothing?
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Jun 20, 2016 18:59
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Elias_Maluco posted:Ive read it like "well Jon is just a good guy at least he is not a wannabe king". next episode, if the spoilers are right, he will be declared king, and then Tormund and Davos will exchange a worried look You don't think he will have learned anything from his near defeat?
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Jun 20, 2016 19:01
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I did think the one bit with Sansa telling Jon not to consider Rickon as alive was a rare moment of good writing that let a character (a Stark, even!) be as smart as they should be and was a decent way to darken her a bit.
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Jun 20, 2016 19:02
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I don't recall a moment, books or show, that demonstrated Jon is qualified to lead a group of any size
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Jun 20, 2016 19:03
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MG3 posted:You don't think he will have learned anything from his near defeat? nope
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Jun 20, 2016 19:05
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visceril posted:I don't recall a moment, books or show, that demonstrated Jon is qualified to lead a group of any size He did okay at the Battle of the Wall. Aside from that, uh... E: To be fair he's far more incompetent in the show, since he had Ygritte actively lead him into a trap while she was his prisoner . Also I think Halfhand's group died there because of him, somehow.
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Jun 20, 2016 19:21
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3Romeo posted:This is also a theme in the later two books. Everything is falling apart after the Red Wedding (eg guest rights) and often in really gruesome ways (Frey pies). I don't think that degeneration is an accident. The problem, though, is that it's earned in the books. In the show it comes off as lazy writing (which it often is). the frey pies at least have nothing to do with guest right as the manderlys were very careful to only murder the freys after they had accepted the gifts at the end of their stay ending their status as guests
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Jun 20, 2016 19:36
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visceril posted:I don't recall a moment, books or show, that demonstrated Jon is qualified to lead a group of any size His dad was warden of the north there for he can lead troops, says everyone from 5000 bce to 1918 ce.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:28
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I will grant, that moment when Jon is being trampled under the crush of bodies trying to escape over the corpse pile was genuinely intense and made me hold my breath. A lot of the action was pretty well executed this time around. My main gripe is the one I said before. The show seemed to play this as a triumphant moment (fought against all odds, rescued at last moment, lingering on shots of the Stark banners being hung again), but if this was a GRRM provided story beat I doubt he intended it that way. The books take a pretty dim view of armed conflict and everyone who initiates one seems to get their comeuppance at some point. In reality, this is the grimmest type of feudalism. Jon Snow, mad that a guy took his dad's castle, rallies a bunch of dudes to his aid. They follow because he earned their respect by putting them above himself in his choices as lord commander. Now he throws them into the meat grinder because he's cranky and they mostly die. At the end, he certainly gets his castle back but this isn't a meaningful change for most of the north. Ramsay is a sadistic sack of poo poo but for the most part the areas are administrated by their lesser lords so Ramsay's bad behavior is restricted to those that have direct interaction with him. 1500+ people died so that ~100 fewer people might suffer at Ramsay's hands over the course of his rule? That's not a triumph, that's Desert Storm 2.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:48
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Ramsey led a fractured North against the ultimate threat. Jon's army fought so he could lead the united north against the ultimate threat. Much like GRRM, you have forgotten that winter is coming.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:02
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:So ep 10 is either going to have Cersei blow up KL in a huge season finale, or she'll be stopped at the last second and blueball everyone. I don't think show Cersei is crazy enough to do the entirety of KL, but I definitely think she'd go for the Sept - with in perhaps getting out of control. LeftistMuslimObama posted:I will grant, that moment when Jon is being trampled under the crush of bodies trying to escape over the corpse pile was genuinely intense and made me hold my breath. Having been trampled once, it was extremely intense for me. In college we won a seemingly impossible football game and everyone rushed the goal posts - I had no where to go and ended up being tripped up and on the turf.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:04
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Ramsay's bullshit about "you can't kill me, I'm a part of you now" coupled with Sansa's secret smile after she offs him is meant to show she's a sadist now too. My hypothesis is that she came in after all of Jon's mans were getting slaughtered because she could. Littlefinger + Ramsay basically turned her into a secret sociopath. Alternative hypothesis: show watchers are terrible people and her creepy revenge-smile is OK because Ramsay totally deserved what he got. She forgot to tell Jon about the Vale army because she was thinkin' about something else. waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 22:15
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What makes you think that this is a victory? First of all, there is now a debt to Littlefinger. Second of all, there is no army to fight the wights. This will likely be the same thing that happens in King's Landing when Dorne, the Reach, the Sept, and the Casterly Rock armies all burn in wildfire.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:16
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Battle of the Bastards was worth watching just to see Sansa smirk as she left Ramsay to be devoured by his dogs. Sansa either wants Jon dead so he can't be a threat to her rule or she's still as big a dumb rear end as she was in season 1 because "hey delay for a loving day and the entire Vale army will be here to help us" is not something you withhold from a person unless you're kinda ok with them dying or at the very least using them as bait. Wonder what she'll do when Bran shows up since cripple or not he inherits before she does and I'm assuming Robb's will that legitmizes Jon and names him heir will never matter. Other highlights include: - Jon hulking the gently caress out and hacking apart some mooks. - Tormund and Umber giving us a taste of what Cleganebowl will be like. - Wun Wun being awesome up until his cool death got interrupted by Westeros Hawkeye Ramsay. - Grey Worm anime killing the two rear end in a top hat masters even though it was really obvious that was going to happen from the start. - Actual military tactics like a shield wall was cool. - Dany's finally going to loving leave Mereene. Maybe. For next week, I think Cersei's going to burn the great sept of baylor at the very least. Tyrion mentioning the wildfire is one thing, but specifically mentioning the cache locations, including the great sept? That has to be a setup. Blind Sally posted:also, Jon should've just had everyone stick Ramzey full of arrows. that walk up to him while catching arrows in a shield was lame.  I really wanted Jon to immediately reply with "I changed my mine too, kill him" followed by Ramsay getting pincushioned with dozens of arrows. Though letting him live and having Sansa feed him to his own once-loyal-now-starving dogs was an acceptable thing as well. DrProsek posted:Yeah, the best I can think of is either a) After her meeting with Jon, Sansa rode out all night to speak to Little Finger and arrange for him to send his army that was already mobilized because reasons In one of the episodes Sansa's seen writing a (small) letter, which she likely sent to Littlefinger by raven and was roughly "we tried uniting the houses, it failed, come help us or we're all loving dead." Josuke Higashikata posted:Good thing Rickon hasn't heard of lateral movement, eh? I know he was panicking but Ramsay had a loving bow, not a gun. You run looking over your shoulder and as soon as you see what looks like Ramsay loosing an arrow you turn 90 degrees and run because even if it takes a second or two for the arrow to get there you'll be a few (dozen) feet away from where he was likely aiming. OTOH, Rickon's a kid who was scared shitless and only cared about getting to Jon and his horse ASAP. Though if I was Ramsay that last arrow would've been aimed for Jon instead.  Collateral posted:Until the reformation of cavalry tactics by Cromwell, this almost never happened. I'm not sure how good you think Ramsay's archers are, but archers vs cavalry is usually a volley or two of arrows followed by a bunch of dead archers. Especially when the cavalry outnumbers the archers significantly. Elias_Maluco posted:LF being nominated Warden of the North, a show only invention just to give him a reason for that dumb Sansa plot, made Ramsay position even less legitimate Also the fact that Ramsay murdered not only his father, but his step mother and newborn half-brother is not a thing that would stay secret, especially Fat Walda's death when you have her screaming as she's eaten alive and there's Frey men in Winterfell. Like, it wouldn't take long for people to realize "Lord Bolton sent for Walda, Roose Bolton was poisoned by enemies and Walda's missing.. Oh hey did you hear about how there was a woman screaming from in the dog kennel that same day?" The Frey men would loving murder Ramsay in a goddamn heartbeat. Hell they'd probably use the Battle of the Bastards to do it since they could kill him and then gently caress off back to the south while the North rips itself apart.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:23
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Dangerllama posted:Ramsay's bullshit about "you can't kill me, I'm a part of you now" coupled with Sansa's secret smile after she offs him is meant to show she's a sadist now too. My hypothesis is that she came in after all of Jon's mans were getting slaughtered because she could. Littlefinger + Ramsay basically turned her into a secret sociopath. This is a little too on the nose please take your speculation level down to probable
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Jun 20, 2016 22:25
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Evil Fluffy posted:and there's Frey men in Winterfell. That's mixing book-stuff and show-stuff together.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:42
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3Romeo posted:This is also a theme in the later two books. Everything is falling apart after the Red Wedding (eg guest rights) and often in really gruesome ways (Frey pies). I don't think that degeneration is an accident. The problem, though, is that it's earned in the books. In the show it comes off as lazy writing (which it often is). except in the books the frey pies are in revenge for loving over the starks. in the show "the north remembers" is one old lady that gets flayed to death as a gently caress you to the better plot. even though the episode was good it woulda been way better if season 5 had done manderly or a plot like manderly and had the houses betray ramsay during the battle (maybe when he started firing on his own guys). that way no littlefinger teleporting.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:35
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You just reminded me I was sure the Pink Letter was sent by Littlefinger or Umber or basically anyone but Ramsay, cause there had to be a twist, anything to make things vaguely interesting. But no, of course not. It's all predictable, fanfic level writing.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:38
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the town crier from rome shoulda been manderly.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:42
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Groovelord Neato posted:the town crier from rome shoulda been manderly. Exactly! Love that guy!
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Jun 20, 2016 23:45
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