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Fair enough. At the end I did feel sorry for Carta in terms of how pitiful her death was, and I don't think I have seen a more brutal mental+physical beatdown happen to a person in almost any medium compared to what Gaelio went through. What bugs me about Gaelio is that he could have tried to be a good leader to Ein and guide him away from such a self destructive path so that all that mattered to the idiot was avenging Crank. Instead he constantly encourages said behavior and only realizes near the end what a monstrous thing he has done to Ein.
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Jul 21, 2016 01:21
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Hunt11 posted:Fair enough. At the end I did feel sorry for Carta in terms of how pitiful her death was, and I don't think I have seen a more brutal mental+physical beatdown happen to a person in almost any medium compared to what Gaelio went through. What bugs me about Gaelio is that he could have tried to be a good leader to Ein and guide him away from such a self destructive path so that all that mattered to the idiot was avenging Crank. Instead he constantly encourages said behavior and only realizes near the end what a monstrous thing he has done to Ein. It's a little more complex than that. He saw Ein as a victim of Gjallarhorn's corruption and racism, and wanted to show him that the organisation wasn't all bad by taking him in and delivering justice on the incredibly dangerous bunch of criminals who'd killed his mentor. He didn't consider it a self-destructive path because he sincerely believed in the might of his organisation, and its capacity to crush evildoers. Then Ein got hurt protecting him, and he authorised taboo surgery to save his life and allow him to live it as a functional human being rather than a wheelchair-bound physical wreck. Apparently, artificial limbs are controlled by something quite similar to the Alaya-Vijnana System, so he probably thought Ein would end up with a pair of mechanical legs, or maybe some kind of partial exoskeleton. Unfortunately, McGillis had other ideas, and he just had to deal with his friend and subordinate ending up as an insane sack of meat plugged into a twenty-metre war machine.
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Jul 21, 2016 01:42
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Darth Walrus posted:It's a little more complex than that. He saw Ein as a victim of Gjallarhorn's corruption and racism, and wanted to show him that the organisation wasn't all bad by taking him in and delivering justice on the incredibly dangerous bunch of criminals who'd killed his mentor. He didn't consider it a self-destructive path because he sincerely believed in the might of his organisation, and its capacity to crush evildoers. Then Ein got hurt protecting him, and he authorised taboo surgery to save his life and allow him to live it as a functional human being rather than a wheelchair-bound physical wreck. Apparently, artificial limbs are controlled by something quite similar to the Alaya-Vijnana System, so he probably thought Ein would end up with a pair of mechanical legs, or maybe some kind of partial exoskeleton. Unfortunately, McGillis had other ideas, and he just had to deal with his friend and subordinate ending up as an insane sack of meat plugged into a twenty-metre war machine. This is a pretty important part too. Gali-gali checked a lot of his plans against his best friend's advice, one of the very few people he knew who wasn't corrupt or kind of psychotic. It's just that he didn't know that Major McGillis, he is a CHAR, and therefore plotting to murder his way to the top. (Mika and McGillis have a rather nice set of parallels, really. Ace MS pilots, born to poverty. Mika just stayed there. Wound up a blunt, brutal killer, and one of the most direct and honest characters in the show. If Mika tells you something, it's almost certainly the truth. Meanwhile, McGillis got a ticket into the high life, and wound up making Aznable look like an amateur in the backstabbing sweeps. )
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Jul 21, 2016 04:48
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Darth Walrus posted:It's a little more complex than that. He saw Ein as a victim of Gjallarhorn's corruption and racism, and wanted to show him that the organisation wasn't all bad by taking him in and delivering justice on the incredibly dangerous bunch of criminals who'd killed his mentor. He didn't consider it a self-destructive path because he sincerely believed in the might of his organisation, and its capacity to crush evildoers. Then Ein got hurt protecting him, and he authorised taboo surgery to save his life and allow him to live it as a functional human being rather than a wheelchair-bound physical wreck. Apparently, artificial limbs are controlled by something quite similar to the Alaya-Vijnana System, so he probably thought Ein would end up with a pair of mechanical legs, or maybe some kind of partial exoskeleton. Unfortunately, McGillis had other ideas, and he just had to deal with his friend and subordinate ending up as an insane sack of meat plugged into a twenty-metre war machine. No, it was the actual Alaya-Vijnana system, just taken a few degrees beyond back-spikes. Also you should check out the announced accessory pack for the new IBO HG kits, because the big club is actually back, just in a smaller dual-wielded form. Those things are gonna be brutal 
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Jul 21, 2016 05:51
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Hunt11 posted:So more thoughts on the series. What he did to Carta Issue and her few surviving men was brutal, but should not have been a surprise to anyone. They show up out of nowhere and demand a dual and basically demand the moon in return for allowing them to continue on their way. If Carta had tried to at least make the idea of a dual somewhat equable then it would have been better. Hell, Crank came into a dual with no benefits to if Mika and Tekkadan won, but at least he tried to make the idea of a dual sound appealing. The thing that made Mika's actions so shocking was that he basically didn't even let Carta finish making her offer. She showed up, began demanding a duel, then Mika went "hey cool they've got popped cockpit hatches and everything" and basically murdered one of Carta's wingmen in cold blood before smashing the other guy to death as he frantically tried to get his mobile suit moving. Then he slowly and systematically dismantled Carta in a horrifyingly clinical way while she desperately tried and failed to defend herself. He could have killed her at any time pretty quickly and cleanly, but he was on the hate train after what Carta did to Biscuit.
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Jul 21, 2016 06:51
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Kanos posted:The thing that made Mika's actions so shocking was that he basically didn't even let Carta finish making her offer. She showed up, began demanding a duel, then Mika went "hey cool they've got popped cockpit hatches and everything" and basically murdered one of Carta's wingmen in cold blood before smashing the other guy to death as he frantically tried to get his mobile suit moving. Then he slowly and systematically dismantled Carta in a horrifyingly clinical way while she desperately tried and failed to defend herself. He could have killed her at any time pretty quickly and cleanly, but he was on the hate train after what Carta did to Biscuit. Mika would've done it even if he wasn't out for revenge, let's be honest.
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Jul 21, 2016 07:18
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Kanos posted:The thing that made Mika's actions so shocking was that he basically didn't even let Carta finish making her offer. She showed up, began demanding a duel, then Mika went "hey cool they've got popped cockpit hatches and everything" and basically murdered one of Carta's wingmen in cold blood before smashing the other guy to death as he frantically tried to get his mobile suit moving. That's kind of a keystone of how Mika handles war in general, and I really like how drat consistent the show is with it. He didn't even let Crank give a proper death soliloquy.
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Jul 21, 2016 07:23
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Mika would've done it even if he wasn't out for revenge, let's be honest. All except the torturing Carta, probably. But not just going for a quick kill? That's unusual. That's personal.
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Jul 21, 2016 07:39
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AnoHito posted:That's kind of a keystone of how Mika handles war in general, and I really like how drat consistent the show is with it. He didn't even let Crank give a proper death soliloquy. The key difference is that he did, however, wait for Crank to make his entire duel offer and then waited for Orga's instructions before launching to do his thing. Even his execution of Crank was done in response to Crank asking to be finished off. When Carta tries the same duel offer Mika is on her and killing her wingmen instantly, no orders or response needed(and even Orga is stunned at Mika's reaction). Mika most definitely becomes more cold and vengeful and open to killing on his own initiative as the series marches on, which is what the whole scene with Orga and Mika in the train car was about and how the more reasonable characters like Merribit and the mechanic are horrified at the extremely negative direction they see Tekkadan taking. Unfortunately, the show kind of dropped that line of writing in favor of Relatively Happy End, presumably because S2 got greenlit. Kanos fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 07:40
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Kanos posted:The thing that made Mika's actions so shocking was that he basically didn't even let Carta finish making her offer. She showed up, began demanding a duel, then Mika went "hey cool they've got popped cockpit hatches and everything" and basically murdered one of Carta's wingmen in cold blood before smashing the other guy to death as he frantically tried to get his mobile suit moving. Then he slowly and systematically dismantled Carta in a horrifyingly clinical way while she desperately tried and failed to defend herself. He could have killed her at any time pretty quickly and cleanly, but he was on the hate train after what Carta did to Biscuit. For all intents and purposes she had already made the offer. She had stated what would happen if her side won, what would happen if Tekkadan won, and how soon she expected the dual to take place. She may have wanted to say more about how intimidating she was and all that bullshit but she had no ground to stand on. A combination of her own ego and the lies fed to her by McGillis made her believe that she could dictate the terms of battle, but the fact that it only took three pilots to shred her precious honor guard should have made it quite clear what the result would have been even if they had agreed to the duel. Worse then that, Carta had already shown her true colors in their first conflict for instead of trying to overcome Mika in honorable combat she went for the weak and easy target. What Mika did was brutal and a clear sign of just how messed up he is, but Carta was basically walking into the lions den and expecting to be treated as anything other then a cocky lamb. Kanos posted:The key difference is that he did, however, wait for Crank to make his entire duel offer and then waited for Orga's instructions before launching to do his thing. Even his execution of Crank was done in response to Crank asking to be finished off. What same dual offer? Crank started off by saying that should he win the dual then the conflict with what soon become Tekkadan and Gjallarhorn would end. Carta shows up and demands that should she win the dual then Tekkadan would basically cease to exist. As Orga basically said, Mika can act both relatively nobly or like a complete savage depending on the situation. So of course he is going to treat people differently if one is trying to come up with a compromise to keep he and his friends safe whilst the other wants to do nothing more then hurt them. Edit: Dark Walrus, I agree with most of the post you made about Gaelio, it is just that I feel your reasoning absolves him off too much. For instead of trying to act like a leader and see the bigger messed up picture, he is caught up in the romanticism of the experiences that Ein went through and instead of trying to help bring him closure in both understanding the wider picture and dealing with Tekkadan, he let the idiot sink into being who is only driven by the idea of revenge. Hunt11 fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 07:58
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Neddy Seagoon posted:No, it was the actual Alaya-Vijnana system, just taken a few degrees beyond back-spikes. No, I know it was, but the impression I got was that Gaelio heard 'Alaya-Vijnana System' and thought 'neural connector for artificial limbs'. Particularly given how McGillis sold it.
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Jul 21, 2016 08:02
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Hunt11 posted:She had stated what would happen if her side won, what would happen if Tekkadan won, and how soon she expected the dual to take place. No real comment on your post, but I am going to be a grammar nazi and point out that the word you're looking for is duel, not dual. A duel is a contest of arms between two people using preset rules. Dual is when two things are similar in some manner or you're talking about two of the same thing, like dual wielding. I'm pretty sure that's the second post you've made with that homonym and while I doubt anyone cares I have to make the correction for my own peace of mind. You might just be using it as a deliberate eggcorn of the word though, in which case ignore me obviously.
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Jul 21, 2016 10:08
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Well at the very least I learned the phrase "eggcorn" today. Nice to have a name for that particular phenomenon.
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Jul 21, 2016 10:21
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Hunt11 posted:What same dual offer? Crank started off by saying that should he win the dual then the conflict with what soon become Tekkadan and Gjallarhorn would end. Carta shows up and demands that should she win the dual then Tekkadan would basically cease to exist. As Orga basically said, Mika can act both relatively nobly or like a complete savage depending on the situation. So of course he is going to treat people differently if one is trying to come up with a compromise to keep he and his friends safe whilst the other wants to do nothing more then hurt them. The thing is that Crank is a lovely low-rank lieutenant. Him going out alone to challenge Tekkadan to a duel is nothing but his own personal desperate last gambit to try to avoid Gjallarhorn ordering him to kill a bunch of kids by handing them Kudelia and going "it's all right, no problem!". Nothing he said or offered is actually going to be officially binding because he has no authority over anyone higher-ranked than the mobile suit technicians or Ein. Do you really think someone like Coral(the actual commander of Mars) is going to let a rebel military organization who killed a shitload of his men and destroyed lots of valuable military materiel(including a mobile suit!) slide? Also, if Tekkadan refused the duel, it's not like Crank was going to go away; he'd either attack then and there to try to fulfill his plan, or he'd sadly leave and come back at the head of an army because he'd be ordered to get Kudelia. Carta actually holds an extremely high rank and has the authority to actually provide what she's offering(passage to Edmonton), but Mika at that point was so coldly angry at Gjallarhorn after Biscuit's death that he wasn't even interested in waiting for Orga to make a decision on the matter. There wasn't any real calculation there beyond "That one killed Biscuit, murder mode engage". This is a big deal because in nearly every other situation in the entire show where Mika murders people it's under direct orders from Orga, either specifically to murder someone(the CGS guys during the coup) or to win a battle.
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Jul 21, 2016 15:09
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Tsob: That was obviously my intention and definitely not due to the fact that grammar has always been a bit of an issue for me. Kanos: The thing is Crank had a lot of leverage though. If he had managed to secure Kudelia then Coral would be way too busy utilizing her to further his own career to worry about a small mercenary organization. Hell with the funds he could have been able to leverage it would be quite possible that in a year or so he wouldn't even notice the resources he lost. What are you talking about in regards to Carta? She didn't offer safe passage or anything else like that, all she said was that if Tekkadan won, then they could continue on their way. So in other words, she gave Tekkadan no reason just to gank her squad whilst they were too busy posing. The brutality of that scene came from the way Mika tore her apart, not the fact that he wasn't wiling to play along with her ideas of how the world works. In the end Crank offered a duel in an attempt to prevent further bloodshed. Carta demanded a duel in order to massage her ego and save her reputation.
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Jul 21, 2016 15:55
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Some slightly odd translation choices in the dub, most notably the decision to reverse Makanai's name to "Togonosuke Makanai." That and the pronunciations of Tekkadan and Mikazuki aside, it's still a great job compared to some of the other stuff we've heard in Gundam.
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Jul 21, 2016 16:39
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Some slightly odd translation choices in the dub, most notably the decision to reverse Makanai's name to "Togonosuke Makanai." That and the pronunciations of Tekkadan and Mikazuki aside, it's still a great job compared to some of the other stuff we've heard in Gundam. It's better than the Build Fighters one,at least.
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Jul 21, 2016 16:52
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Just out of curiosity, how does the dub explain the meaning of Tekkadan's name?
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Jul 21, 2016 20:10
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Raxivace posted:Just out of curiosity, how does the dub explain the meaning of Tekkadan's name? It must have been named after their fallen head technician Dan.
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Jul 21, 2016 20:33
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Raxivace posted:Just out of curiosity, how does the dub explain the meaning of Tekkadan's name? Same way the sub does, pretty much. The CGS boys getting puzzled over the name's meaning in the original means that the conversation works either in English or Japanese - in English, Orga is confusing them by naming his group in a foreign language, and in Japanese, he's confusing them with alternate kanji readings.
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Jul 21, 2016 21:21
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Mika wears his arm in a sling when not piloting, and Barbatos now uses a big loving sword? He has become Auron.
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Jul 21, 2016 23:44
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Hunt11 posted:
Also because McGillis told her to and directly sent her to her death.
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Jul 22, 2016 00:18
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So is there anyone else in Gundam who's as big a bastard as McGillis?
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Jul 22, 2016 01:22
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He hasnt gassed innocent people or wiped out 1/3 of humanity yet so hes still small time.
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Jul 22, 2016 01:25
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In terms of scale he hasn't ranked very high but sacrificing childhood "friends" in the name of revolution is pretty up there.
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Jul 22, 2016 01:28
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Eej posted:In terms of scale he hasn't ranked very high but sacrificing childhood "friends" in the name of revolution is pretty up there. I'd say Gihren has the record, between the patricide and the whole wiping out half of humanity thing, but McGillis gets points for artistry. Very few people have had their souls crushed quite as thoroughly as poor Gaelio. And that was what McGillis did to a FRIEND who he admitted HE CAME AS CLOSE TO LIKING AS HE DID FOR ANYONE. There may be less lives ruined in a McGillis Fareed plan than the leading brands, but every one is a handcrafted masterwork.
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Jul 22, 2016 02:35
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The absolute biggest Gundam bastard is probably Rau, who betrays literally everyone, sends people who trusted him to their deaths, murders people just to troll people and is attempting to cause the death of the entirety of humanity. There are supreme bastards but in terms of both scale and sheer callous assholery he's probably tops and he loves his job the entire way.
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Jul 22, 2016 02:42
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Bloody Pom posted:Mika wears his arm in a sling when not piloting, and Barbatos now uses a big loving sword?
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Jul 22, 2016 04:21
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Bloody Pom posted:Mika wears his arm in a sling when not piloting, and Barbatos now uses a big loving sword? This but with Barbatos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aRbMBcIOOI
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Jul 22, 2016 04:52
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OneDeadman posted:This but with Barbatos Like this?
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Jul 22, 2016 05:43
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I never noticed the little puff of snow and blood from the pilot landing behind the Barbatos before  . That guy is pulp.
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Jul 22, 2016 06:50
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I never noticed the little puff of snow and blood from the pilot landing behind the Barbatos before It could have been worse though. If he had used a sword then he could have very well beaten Carta to death with a sword that still had the body of one of her men on it.
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Jul 22, 2016 06:53
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Jul 22, 2016 10:54
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I really like that fight. It has some really nice choreography (like Mikazuki using his wrench to spin kick Carta in the face) and nice animation balanced off the fact that it is obviously horrific. It also says a lot about the cast with the reactions. Kudelia's shocked by it, Orga's not feeling good about it, but he can't say as much because this is what they need, and the leader can't go "Wow, what I got you all pumped up for is kind of horrible now I'm looking at it.", the other veteran pilots are a bit grossed out, the kids are 100% into it... And their backer doesn't give a gently caress, which emphasizes that, while he and Kudelia are on the same side for the moment, and he'll get her what she needs, he's not a good person. Just some nice variation in reactions.
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Jul 22, 2016 18:31
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The Sandman posted:So is there anyone else in Gundam who's as big a bastard as McGillis? Oh, when it comes to phenomenally evil shitheels, he doesn't even rank. Most Gundam shows have at least one, and they usually engage in spectacularly hosed-up things. My personal pick is Victory Gundam's Fonse Kagatie. Spoilers will follow. He's a Jovian businessman who stumbles across a pacifist psychic healer, Maria, and her harmless matriarchal cult and decides to turn them into the figureheads at the core of a solar-system-spanning empire, with himself as its shadow ruler. With the collapse of Earth's government, his Zanscare Empire begins a reign of terror in the original, French sense, executing dissidents (and suspected dissidents, and relatives of dissidents, and...) on an industrial scale by guillotine, burning down cities, and even launching an operation to literally crush everything living on the North Anerican continent with an armada of nigh-unstoppable land-battleships, all under his direct command. He keeps Empress Maria in the dark about the whole thing, keeping her on a colony well behind the front lines, surrounding her with adoring worshippers, and reassuring her that Zanscare is simply bringing peace and stability to the solar system while he ruthlessly stamps out dissent both inside and outside the empire. Eventually, he reveals his ultimate plan to solidify control over the solar system, the Angel Halo superweapon. It's basically a giant psychic amplifier, which is powered by Maria and thousands of her cultists, which lets them broadcast on a planetary scale. He tells them to send messages of peace and goodwill to the resistance on Earth, encouraging them to lay down their weapons and end the war. What he doesn't tell them is how powerful the damned thing is. Its output affects every complex living being on Earth - not just humans, but most animals - and shuts their brains down, causing them to fall asleep until they die of starvation or dehydration as the psychic radiation eats away at their bodies, accelerating their ends. It's a total planetary genocide weapon designed to create unlimited Lebensraum that Zanscare can roll into unopposed, and the kicker is that if anyone attacks it, they'll kill innocent dupes who are trying to give peace a chance by the hundreds. Also, when Maria dies, he puts her eleven-year-old daughter at the Halo's controls instead. So there's that.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:06
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Turning it around, is there anyone that is screwed as bad as Gali-Gali?
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Jul 23, 2016 00:28
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derra posted:Turning it around, is there anyone that is screwed as bad as Gali-Gali? Kyoji Kasshu from G Gundam probably wins. He watches his mother get shot to death by the military and is immediately forced to flee at the helm of an experimental nanomachine Gundam, which is damaged during the escape(his father is scapegoated for this and imprisoned, too). This damage causes it to go haywire, become the Devil Gundam, and basically infest/take over his body to use as a core component. The Devil Gundam then rampages around destroying things and murdering people while various people and organizations attempt to locate it to harness its power for their own purposes. His last gasp of free will is spent using the nanomachines infesting him to reanimate the body of one of the people the Devil Gundam forced him to murder as a zombie cyborg and then ordering that zombie cyborg to seek out Kyoji's brother Domon and help train Domon to be strong enough to kill him because death is the only release from his misery. Kanos fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 16:31
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So the Astaroth Origin from Steel Moon we've been seeing previews of is, in fact, a restored Astaroth piloted by the main character. Well then.
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Aug 2, 2016 09:52
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Season 2 will premier in Atlanta.
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Aug 12, 2016 11:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8tHqYrzf34 New PV, new characters, new muscles
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Aug 27, 2016 13:27
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