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This forum background is freaking me out.
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Sep 6, 2016 14:17
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I don't miss the government of Sadam Hussein. I don't miss the Tibetan government either. hahaha goddamn this is quite a Post
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Sep 6, 2016 16:35
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Yeah, it's kind of hard to argue the Chinese Government has any kind of moral high ground against whatever government existed before in Tibet.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:01
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the only way it makes sense to support the lama's claim to independence is if you really want to see one of the most brutal feudal theocracies in history reemerge and to place the grown-up child-god on his skull of thrones again to rule over his nepalese and tibetan slaves
Urbandale fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 01:13
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Urbandale posted:the only way it makes sense to support the lama's claim to independence is if you really want to see one of the most brutal feudal theocracies in history reemerge and to place the grown-up child-god on his skull of thrones again to rule over his nepalese and tibetan slaves That's not the only way, no. You're deliberately conflating two claims. One is Tibetan independence, the other is sovereignty over Tibet. I don't know if he even still claims the latter, but if he does I'm confident everyone in this thread rejects it. lol that you spent that many posts going on about purely theoretical self-determination only to go "not for the Tibetans though, gently caress those guys."
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Sep 7, 2016 01:23
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Urbandale posted:the only way it makes sense to support the lama's claim to independence is if you really want to see one of the most brutal feudal theocracies in history reemerge and to place the grown-up child-god on his skull of thrones again to rule over his nepalese and tibetan slaves He has a skull made of thrones? poo poo that's awesome, get him back in power asap.
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Sep 7, 2016 01:25
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Urbandale posted:the only way it makes sense to support the lama's claim to independence is if you really want to see one of the most brutal feudal theocracies in history reemerge and to place the grown-up child-god on his skull of thrones again to rule over his nepalese and tibetan slaves sounds like an improvement from today's tibet 
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Sep 7, 2016 02:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnfioOtrBro
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Sep 7, 2016 03:29
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I constantly hear that the population of Tibet would vote for the dalai lama to rule them if there were democratic elections from Tibetan apologists tho
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Sep 7, 2016 04:42
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Urbandale posted:the only way it makes sense to support the lama's claim to independence is if you really want to see one of the most brutal feudal theocracies in history reemerge and to place the grown-up child-god on his skull of thrones again to rule over his nepalese and tibetan slaves Chinese man's burden to civilize the barbaric natives
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Sep 7, 2016 08:38
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Urbandale posted:the only way it makes sense to support the lama's claim to independence is if you really want to see one of the most brutal feudal theocracies in history reemerge and to place the grown-up child-god on his skull of thrones again to rule over his nepalese and tibetan slaves Just like how Ireland shattered into thousands of clan chiefdoms immediately after independence because human societies work just like tech trees in my favourite video games
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Sep 7, 2016 08:51
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Jack of Hearts posted:That's not the only way, no. You're deliberately conflating two claims. One is Tibetan independence, the other is sovereignty over Tibet. I don't know if he even still claims the latter, but if he does I'm confident everyone in this thread rejects it. Heh yeah just skimmed his posts and saw that nonsense about how the US subjugates multiple internal nations. What an idiot. Homework Explainer posted:the first and only countries to eradicate homelessness, poverty and unemployment are pretty god damned huge achievements in my book And another lol for this.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:27
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Lol just lol at the idea of the US oppressing nations within its borders. Pipeline? What pipeline?
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Sep 7, 2016 15:26
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asdf32 posted:Heh yeah just skimmed his posts and saw that nonsense about how the US subjugates multiple internal nations. What an idiot. The US literally subjugates multiple internal nations.
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Sep 7, 2016 16:04
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asdf32 posted:Heh yeah just skimmed his posts and saw that nonsense about how the US subjugates multiple internal nations. What an idiot. 
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Sep 7, 2016 16:24
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*sigh*. It's not that you can't model the world thay way it's that there is no point and in this case it's being inconsintly applied based on pure ideology. If the US is a bunch of subjected nations then China certainly is. It reduces down in a way that de-legitimizes states in general. Which, simply put, is stupid even if properly applied. That's the laughable nature of the strict anti-imperialist stance. It's never applied consistently and would be useless if it was. Human society requires sacrifice by individuals and sub-groups to the larger whole.
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Sep 7, 2016 16:50
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The subjugated nations are the Indians not the states. Dixie was a subjugated nation too for a while but that was a good thing.
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Sep 7, 2016 16:58
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They're indigenous Americans, not "Indians" you loving bigot
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Sep 7, 2016 17:17
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asdf32 posted:Human society requires sacrifice by individuals and sub-groups to the larger whole. There's a huge difference between making a sacrifice and being ruthlessly exploited.
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Sep 7, 2016 17:37
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I want you to take note of the fact that comrade pener is outraged over a dog running into a crowd of minorities in the US but handwaves literal mass ethnic cleansing of minorities in the ussr
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Sep 7, 2016 18:02
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Pepper spraying and setting attack dogs on peaceful protestors on their native land = "just a dog" gotcha
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Sep 7, 2016 18:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:There's a huge difference between making a sacrifice and being ruthlessly exploited. Yep and one side of this debate is completely unable to navigate a consistent course between the two. Hence anti-imperialists defending Chinese control of Tibet and Soviet everything.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:24
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"The US, which is bad, does the same bad thing that China, which is good, also does. Therefore bad thing is actually not that bad." - Powerful critical analysis from Internet lenninist KawaiiFart69
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Sep 7, 2016 18:29
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Fiction posted:Pepper spraying and setting attack dogs on peaceful protestors on their native land = "just a dog" gotcha What a weird use of quotation marks.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:30
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Typo posted:I want you to take note of the fact that comrade pener is outraged over a dog running into a crowd of minorities in the US but handwaves literal mass ethnic cleansing of minorities in the ussr It's slightly more subtle than that. We're talking about corporate thugs brutalizing people whose ancestors were already ethnically cleansed, so you can argue that the current outrage is effectively an extension of what came before. Doesn't change the fact that PK has no principled opposition to ethnic cleansing, though. As always, when the US does it it is bad, when glorious socialists do it it's eggs and omelettes and so forth.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:35
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The Saurus posted:They're indigenous Americans, not "Indians" you loving bigot Those are some big words coming from somethingawful forums poster The "Black People Are Stupid: It's an obvious fact" Saurus.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:19
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The "Proudly White & Nationalist & Socialist" Saurus
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Sep 7, 2016 20:28
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A lot of people tell me that Saurus supports Trump and communism because he's really loving stupid. I mean we're talking powerfully retarded here, big league. I don't know if that's true, but a lot of very smart, very good people, who I hired, by the way, are saying it.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:56
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Jack of Hearts posted:It's slightly more subtle than that. We're talking about corporate thugs brutalizing people whose ancestors were already ethnically cleansed, so you can argue that the current outrage is effectively an extension of what came before. Doesn't change the fact that PK has no principled opposition to ethnic cleansing, though. As always, when the US does it it is bad, when glorious socialists do it it's eggs and omelettes and so forth. I'm pretty sure I said that it was bad, actually. Everything was hosed up during World War 2. That's why it's especially egregious that SD governments continued carrying out colonial wars long after the existential excuse was over. The British were still putting Kenyans into concentration camps during the 50s. It's easy to claim that you're "consistently navigating a course" regarding exploitation, when your position is that imperialism is definitely good and you've got to break a few indigenous eggs to make a Global North omelette. It's much better to at least acknowledge that what was done was wrong and risk being a hypocrite, than to be an unapologetic imperialist. This is logic dork liberal reasoning at its worst.
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Sep 8, 2016 01:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm pretty sure I said that it was bad, actually. Everything was hosed up during World War 2. You said that it was bad and then immediately said that they had it coming. Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's easy to claim that you're "consistently navigating a course" regarding exploitation, when your position is that imperialism is definitely good and you've got to break a few indigenous eggs to make a Global North omelette. It's much better to at least acknowledge that what was done was wrong and risk being a hypocrite, than to be an unapologetic imperialist. I don't know what you're trying to say with any of this, but I have to wonder why it's necessary to "risk being a hypocrite." Why not just say that bad things are bad, full stop? Why does every communist atrocity have to be denied or diminished? Why the constant need for tu quoque? "Sure, GDR soldiers shoot people trying to flee the country in the back, but did you know that America makes it hard to go to Cuba?!?" Here, I'll give you a demonstration of how a ~liberal~ does it, with suggestions for how you could try it yourself if you ever got the urge. "FDR [Stalin] was fuckin' cool, but Japanese internment [internal Soviet ethnic cleansing] was utterly reprehensible and cannot be excused."
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Sep 8, 2016 02:31
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Not that it changes your argument, but the US waged a serious terror campaign against Cuba.
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Sep 8, 2016 02:49
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Jack of Hearts posted:You said that it was bad and then immediately said that they had it coming. That's WW2 for ya. quote:I don't know what you're trying to say with any of this, but I have to wonder why it's necessary to "risk being a hypocrite." Why not just say that bad things are bad, full stop? Why does every communist atrocity have to be denied or diminished? Why the constant need for tu quoque? It's not me or any other communists who are engaging in tu quoque itt. I brought up the SD commitment to waging imperialism, and the immediate response was to ask "what about Tibet? What about Chechen-Ingush?" As if they were even remotely relevant to the issue. Explaining the reason atrocities were carried out doesn't "deny or diminish" the fact that they were atrocities. The typical liberal response to the problematic realities of liberal and social democracy is to just flat out ignore the issue and engage in tu quoque with Leftists for being somehow inconsistent in their professed beliefs. We even got a liberal on this very page who was trying to rephrase the demolition of sacred lands, and the abuse of its protesters as a goddamn "sacrifice." quote:Here, I'll give you a demonstration of how a ~liberal~ does it, with suggestions for how you could try it yourself if you ever got the urge. "FDR [Stalin] was fuckin' cool, but Japanese internment [internal Soviet ethnic cleansing] was utterly reprehensible and cannot be excused." And yet liberals have engaged in all sorts of apologetic rationale for the Allied terror bombings. The internment of Japanese during WW2 is also a well publicized injustice that's kept alive by the diaspora community in the United States, but you're not in the least interested in learning about or coming to terms with the atrocities carried out by liberal & social democracies during and in the wake of WW2. What about the millions of Indians who starved to death under British neglect in 1944? What about the terror bombing of North Korea, or the support of Indonesia's genocide against communists and Chinese? Only the failures of Communist states are ever moralized. Imperialism is still a touchy subject for liberals because in many ways they still support it. Hillary Clinton got endorsed by people who organized Latin American death squads for Christ's sake. It's an inescapable necessity of the capitalist system to wage imperialism or neocolonialism abroad, while communist or socialist states like Cuba don't, and have the track record to prove it. There is a clear alternative here that liberals refuse to accept, which is why rather than dealing with the issue you immediately resort to whataboutism.
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Sep 8, 2016 02:55
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Two wrongs don't make a right, Stalin was bad and so are liberal warmongers.
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Sep 8, 2016 02:58
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Enjoy posted:Two wrongs don't make a right, Stalin was bad and so are liberal warmongers. Actually liberal warmongers own. I have it on good authority that I believe this, and who am I to question what other people tell me about myself?
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Sep 8, 2016 03:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm pretty sure I said that it was bad, actually. Everything was hosed up during World War 2. China was invading Tibet in the 50s. The USSR sent tanks into Prague in the '60s just as European powers were withdrawing from Africa. The USSR literally collapsed before it allowed the baltic and central asian SSRs any more self determination than representation in the politburo, if at all. You don't get to champion communism's opposition to imperialism when communist governments have been some of the most aggressive imperialists of the 20th century.
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Sep 8, 2016 11:46
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Odobenidae posted:The "Proudly White & Nationalist & Socialist" Saurus I never said I was "Proud to be white". Why would someone be proud of an accident of birth?
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Sep 8, 2016 12:30
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The Saurus posted:They're indigenous Americans, not "Indians" you loving bigot Aren't you British?
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Sep 8, 2016 12:52
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Constant Hamprince posted:China was invading Tibet in the 50s. The USSR sent tanks into Prague in the '60s just as European powers were withdrawing from Africa. The USSR literally collapsed before it allowed the baltic and central asian SSRs any more self determination than representation in the politburo, if at all. You don't get to champion communism's opposition to imperialism when communist governments have been some of the most aggressive imperialists of the 20th century. Is that so, hermano? 
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Sep 8, 2016 13:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Is that so, hermano?  uh, look guys, uh, you gotta understand that the us was doing bad things too so its ok
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Sep 8, 2016 13:33
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You specifically claimed that communists were the most aggressive imperialists of the 20th century, which is extraordinarily laughable because 1 you still do not understand what "imperialism" means and 2 you are pointedly ignoring all other evidence to reach your conclusion.
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Sep 8, 2016 13:41
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