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It's part of a new series. Has a lot of references to Return of the Crimson Guard and works as a sort of prequel to that book along with the rest of the series.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:10
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What I've heard in this thread has pretty much scared me away from ICE forever, and I've read the Erikson series twice.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:13
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I just finished reading the ICE books and I enjoyed them. Yeah they aren't as good but I enjoyed finding out about different parts of the world the main series didn't cover.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:16
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Cropper continues to cool and the book continues to be good. I can't even think of anything bad to say about it. Other than some slight bits that feel a little too 'RPG novelization'. The only thing I have to complain about is the audio reader always gives male mages the same, effeminate voice.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:55
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Fenrir posted:What I've heard in this thread has pretty much scared me away from ICE forever, and I've read the Erikson series twice. They're only disappointing in comparison to Erikson. I don't think any of ICE's books are worse written than for example a Brent Weeks book. They are good malazan side stories and as long as you keep in mind they're side stories you won't be too disappointed.
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Sep 6, 2016 01:28
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A couple of them are pretty decent and some of the others are stinkers (I haven't read Assail or Dancer's Lament) but if you're still looking for more after finishing Erickson's books, you could do worse. edit: I don't think I would intersperse them in with the Erickson books though, save 'em for after if you do read them.
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Sep 6, 2016 03:52
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The Ninth Layer posted:They're only disappointing in comparison to Erikson. I don't think any of ICE's books are worse written than for example a Brent Weeks book.
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Sep 6, 2016 07:39
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Socialist propaganda piece Midnight Tides is my new favourite. Erikson's comedic dialogue is so good - any exchange between Tehol, Bugg and friends is a joy. These scenes flow so well that it took a while to dawn on me that one of the characters is a sex addicted zombie thief. It's a different kind of comedy to the language feasts of Kruppe and the soldiers' banter. I'm constantly surprised by the variety in Erikson's arsenal. On that note, the character introspection is better than in previous books. Trull seems to fill the role of Ganoes and Duiker as this novel's thoughtful warrior, and I could feel his pain once everything started going to poo poo. Rhulad is a rollercoaster of emotions. Only one character has pissed me off so far (Pormqual Dom), but Rhulad is so hateable after his rebirth, so it's pretty cool that I was sympathizing and almost pulling for him towards the end. That scene where he and his brothers get drunk in the tent is unexpected and bittersweet. This isn't the first time that a god/demon plot has left me underwhelmed (not TCG but the Azath stuff) because of how little is known about the gods in the grander scheme of things. I mean, K'rul seemed critical to things in MoI but has barely been mentioned since. I like how Anomander hangs over nearly everything and I'm very eager to see what's gonna happen with him. I could be wrong, but I think he's the only character mentioned in every book so far. Erikson's empathetic, socialistic bent jives with my worldview so I like the analogues to and arguments effectively about our world. Based on the above posts I'll hold off on considering ICE until after the main series. Question: Am I supposed to already know the Errant by another name or is he a new character? snoremac fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 12:14
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Esslemont is garbage please do not read
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Sep 6, 2016 12:37
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I'm eager to try one now just for comparison's sake.
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Sep 6, 2016 12:48
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Me and bae were going to read one of his books each but I did dramatic readings of Return of the Crimson Guard for her and once she stopped laughing she refused to ever touch them
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Sep 6, 2016 13:04
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That makes me want to read one more. The only fantasy I've ever read is this and ASoIaF so at the least I'll get a taste of what bad fantasy prose is.
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Sep 6, 2016 13:26
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It's not even bad, really. Just average. There is plenty of bad fantasy out there.
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Sep 6, 2016 13:31
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snoremac posted:That makes me want to read one more. Lol, without defending Esslemont, I can safely say he is hardly a bad writer. More like slightly above average.
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Sep 6, 2016 14:24
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snoremac posted:Question: Am I supposed to already know the Errant by another name or is he a new character?
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Sep 6, 2016 15:03
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Errastas did nothing wrong.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:20
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Mordja posted:Errastas did nothing wrong. Errastas did some things wrong.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:34
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Mordja posted:Errastas did nothing wrong. Sometimes you just need to give things a little nudge.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:35
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Karsa trilogy can't come soon enough.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:36
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Finally finished the 10 books. A great thanks again to goon Mayheim for pointing me out to this beautiful saga. I pretty much enjoyed everything and I loved how things grow on you (Kallor I'm looking at you). Also the little things that give away the true character of someone (Klimandaros observing at a pillar she just destroyed with a smug face, or QB having an inner ego erection while Kalam is watching him disgusted). I'll be honest tho, I'm not an English native speaker (I'm Peruvian) so I didn't understand poo poo from Nep Furrow, could someone please explain to me the last reveal?
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Sep 7, 2016 03:01
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You're not meant to understand Nep. Erikson riffing on the lovable fantasy trope of character with weird accent that the author writes out even though all the other characters are from different places but they don't get written accents for some reason.
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Sep 7, 2016 03:12
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Mordja posted:Errastas did nothing wrong. I hate Errastas and I'd love to cut out one of his eyes.
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Sep 7, 2016 03:44
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Nep Furrow is basically Kenny from South Park. Also has Kenny's sense of humor.
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Sep 7, 2016 03:54
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dishwasherlove posted:You're not meant to understand Nep. Erikson riffing on the lovable fantasy trope of character with weird accent that the author writes out even though all the other characters are from different places but they don't get written accents for some reason. I think the reason is that no one in the books can understand him either.
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Sep 7, 2016 04:32
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You know who did nothing wrong? Bellurdan "Giant, Scholar, Lover" Skullcrusher.
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Sep 7, 2016 06:20
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Tayschrenn: Can someone remind me what is was that he did in the battle of Pale, revealed in MoI, that showed that he wasn't actually trying to kill Malazans/Bridgeburners as previously suspected?
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Sep 7, 2016 09:18
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It's a retcon, really. I think the excuse was that he thought the tunnels were safe but it could be classified as a GotM-ism.
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Sep 7, 2016 09:32
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snoremac posted:Tayschrenn: Can someone remind me what is was that he did in the battle of Pale, revealed in MoI, that showed that he wasn't actually trying to kill Malazans/Bridgeburners as previously suspected? That's too much a tangle of plot, but not really a retcon. The thing "mostly" makes sense, but it's still rough and poorly executed. Lots of those characters swap positions behind the scenes and their motivations aren't well explained. I think I was able to give it an overall sketchy explanation in the Tor re-read, and that explanation was later confirmed by Erikson. Though I don't remember exactly how it worked. Tayschrenn's position changes with the arrival of the adjunct (soon after the siege), so you see the contradiction of the character because there was an actual change of tasks. The Bridgeburners DID plan to replace Laseen on the throne with Whiskeyjack, so initially it was true that Laseen was against them and gave Tayschrenn the order to continue the purge. Those purges (that were actually triggered by Paran, indirectly) were required by Laseen to seize control, since her rule was of course not legitimate and pretty much no one in the army was loyal to her. They were all loyal to the previous emperor. Only later Laseen realized she couldn't fight against the whole empire, and had instead to try winning their favors. She's very paranoid, but not a fool. It's then Dujek that later tries to convince Wiskeyjack that Tayschrenn is not an enemy. So he might have been half lying, or maybe it was Tayschrenn that managed to convince Dujek (who himself didn't know of the Bridgeburners plan to replace Laseen). Abalieno fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 09:57
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Thanks. That also helps clear up a niggling thing for me, namely Kalam's desire in DG to kill Laseen. I'd assumed Dujek's fake defection was planned from the start and most of Kalam's anger derived from it, which would make Dujek look very stupid. It makes sense now, since he had legitimate beef.
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Sep 7, 2016 10:29
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My logic is Kalam's plan was to replace Laseen with Whiskeyjack. That's why one of the pebble was supposed to open a portal and bring over both Quick Ben and Whiskeyjack. But at that point the Bridgeburners on Genabackis side were in a deep mess with the Crippled God and Kalam too was in deep trouble and had to use both the pebbles before reaching Laseen (and Laseen wasn't even there because she tricked Kalam). So during both MoI and DG the situation evolved so much that the plan couldn't happen anymore. The only tiny hook for this explanation is the very last two pages of Gardens of the Moon (and the general theme of Dune-like "plans within plans within plans" that is QB's mantra, essentially, being always one step ahead). Go back and reread them. That plan is never mentioned again because it was just between Quick Ben and Kalam (since Whiskeyjack would never agree to send a squad to kill Laseen and claim the throne, their idea was to do everything on their own and then just toss the throne in Whiskyjack's lap so that he couldn't turn down the offer at that point, the empire without a ruler would be such a mess that WJ's honor would have tied him to the throne as a sense of responsibility), and because its conditions change so much during DG that basically it only remains implicit. We only know Kalam was there to kill Laseen, and then decided not to for the reasons explained in the book. It's only logical, but not explicitly told, that the plan couldn't stop there. They had to have an idea about who should replace Laseen on the throne, and WJ, with the crippled leg and everything, made the perfect candidate. He was ready to become a leader instead of just a soldier. P.S. It's kind of weak storytelling when such an important sub-plot that drives most of the story through one book is so poorly referenced (the whole plan is implicit). But it's a symptom of how Erikson worked: he already had the story in his mind, so it makes sense to him when he writes, but sometime he has a poor sense of what important information he didn't pass to the reader. Scenes (and motivations) he knows happened between characters but that never directly appear in the book. That's the actual big problem of GOTM: Erikson knows the story so well because he had it all so long in his mind that he consequently has a very poor grasp of what is there and what is missing in the actual books. What he wrote about is only a part of what he knows, and while writing he often lost track of what would be the exclusive reader's perception. GOTM is like 30% stuff that happens in the actual book and 70% behind the scenes that is only tangentially referenced or completely missing. The rest of the series instead is built more and more directly on the stuff in the actual books (original material), and less behind the scenes (the world and history they built before the idea of the book series happened). The first few books are based on such a tangle of plot and behind the scenes, that are instead explicit in Erikson's mind since it's the bulk he worked and played on for such a long time, and the result is that lots of stuff is poorly explained or not given enough importance even if it moves important plots. As the series progresses we see progressively less pre-existing material, and so there's also progressively less reliance on stuff that happens behind the scenes and that Erikson gives for granted even if IT IS NOT. And that's why, while GOTM is a poor book because of those reasons, it also has that unique flavor of "pre-existing history" and in medias res story that the rest of the series tends to lose. You gain something but you lose something too. Abalieno fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 07:08
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Yeah, that feeling of being plunged into the middle of things is less pronounced from DG onwards, which might be the result of tighter plotting and would be inevitable anyway, but also makes GotM unique and kinda endearing, even if it's the dud of the bunch so far. It might be because I read GotM about a year before picking up DG a few months ago, but weren't Shadowthrone and Cotillion really silly? I remember them being really comical and weak (like when Anomander frightens them). Likewise, where the heck did Oponn disappear too? I'm up to Bonehunters and I don't think anyone's even thought about them since.
snoremac fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 08:54
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snoremac posted:Yeah, that feeling of being plunged into the middle of things is less pronounced from DG onwards, which might be the result of tighter plotting and would be inevitable anyway, but also makes GotM unique and kinda endearing, even if it's the dud of the bunch so far. It might be because I read GotM about a year before picking up DG a few months ago, but weren't Shadowthrone and Cotillion really silly? I remember them being really comical and weak (like when Anomander frightens them). Likewise, where the heck did Oponn disappear too? I'm up to Bonehunters and I don't think anyone's even thought about them since. Also you'll see Oponn soon. I don't remember their role being particularly big or necessary, though.
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Sep 8, 2016 14:38
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What are some other fantasy recommendations that are similar to Malazan? I've read ASoIAF and the Joe Abercrombie books, what else is there that is decent?
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Sep 8, 2016 15:28
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blk96gt posted:What are some other fantasy recommendations that are similar to Malazan? I've read ASoIAF and the Joe Abercrombie books, what else is there that is decent? Bakker.
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Sep 8, 2016 15:55
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blk96gt posted:What are some other fantasy recommendations that are similar to Malazan? I've read ASoIAF and the Joe Abercrombie books, what else is there that is decent? I'd say China Mieville but they're not really similar at all but anyone who likes fantasy/scifi should read China Mieville anyway.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:07
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I'd say China Mieville but they're not really similar at all but anyone who likes fantasy/scifi should read China Mieville anyway. The safe, obligatory recommendation is Black Company by Glen Cook, basically Erikson's biggest inspiration.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:31
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Bakker is close but I don't really like him personally. Bas-Lag series by Mieville is a pretty good recommedation. Smaller scope than Erikson though.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:32
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Of course Bakker. But I'd suggest the Instrumentalities series by Glen Cook, and also Janny Wurts main series.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:03
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It's funny how something as random in its imagination as the Malazans crawling down a pit until they fall asleep on top of ancient honey jars seems completely reasonable in context.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:22
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blk96gt posted:What are some other fantasy recommendations that are similar to Malazan? I've read ASoIAF and the Joe Abercrombie books, what else is there that is decent? Pretty much everything already recommended (Bakker, Cook, Mieville) is a great choice. Bakker's good for a big epic series even darker than Malazan, Cook's Black Company books are what the Malazan marines are (heavily) based on, and Mieville stuffs his books and worlds full of the same surprises Erikson does. I'd also add Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun to the list. It's a series that like Malazan really rewards attentive reading, as well as rereading, and is a true classic in the fantasy genre.
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Sep 9, 2016 06:46
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