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Kopijeger posted:I don't remember exactly where it was, but one of the books in the trilogy directly references FM-2030. Now, how likely is this person to be remembered in the year 40k-something?  Of course, the question of how much ancient knowledge and lore have been preserved until M41 is another one of those things that varies from BL author to BL author. In Pariah a small, ancient toy rocket makes an appearance whose provenance nobody knows anything about because the letters CCCP stencilled on its side mean nothing to them, while in Priests of Mars one character finds himself reminded of "the gladiatorial warriors of the Romanii empire from Old Earth's ancient history". 
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Oct 12, 2016 18:51
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Didn't unremembered empire start off with a quote from one "Shakespire"?
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Oct 12, 2016 19:10
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Arcsquad12 posted:Didn't unremembered empire start off with a quote from one "Shakespire"? One of the Horus Heresy books mentions someone having read all three of Shakespire's plays
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Oct 12, 2016 19:17
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You know we still read the Greek tragedies thousands of years later. Sure 40000 years is ludicrous but there is precedent for knowing ancient texts
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Oct 12, 2016 19:21
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I was gonna nerd slap fight about the cultural impact of Rome vs USSR but I dunno if it's worth it. Just gonna say I think there's a big difference between the two, especially with the clearly roman styling in 40k. Also Emperor was totally Augustus. It is lame schlock though as well.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:26
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Fellblade posted:I was gonna nerd slap fight about the cultural impact of Rome vs USSR but I dunno if it's worth it. 
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Oct 12, 2016 20:21
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MMAgCh posted:In Pariah a small, ancient toy rocket makes an appearance whose provenance nobody knows anything about because the letters CCCP stencilled on its side mean nothing to them, while in Priests of Mars one character finds himself reminded of "the gladiatorial warriors of the Romanii empire from Old Earth's ancient history". Also from Pariah, hadn't Bequin been taught the language of the ancient Franc, ie contempary French? It could be sort of plausible for a historian or historical linguist studying ancient Terran cultures to know it (depending on what records survive), but someone living on a distant colony world that has had its own history and cultural development for thousands of years? Also, I think one Space Marine from the Horus Heresy books had mentioned reading Herodot's histories at some point. Something like that might survive that long, but the problem with this idea is that for a culture in the year 30000 looking 28000 years into the past will be much trickier than looking 2000 or even 12000 years into the past. But I guess the writers have to shoehorn in references familiar to the readers, no matter how implausible it might seem.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:29
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Guy Goodbody posted:One of the Horus Heresy books mentions someone having read all three of Shakespire's plays One of the primarchs, probably Lorgar, is mentioned as having a translated copy of the Voynich Manuscript in his library.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:46
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MMAgCh posted:Of course, the question of how much ancient knowledge and lore have been preserved until M41 is another one of those things that varies from BL author to BL author. In Pariah a small, ancient toy rocket makes an appearance whose provenance nobody knows anything about because the letters CCCP stencilled on its side mean nothing to them, while in Priests of Mars one character finds himself reminded of "the gladiatorial warriors of the Romanii empire from Old Earth's ancient history".
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Oct 12, 2016 21:07
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berzerkmonkey posted:Ask a 12 year old what "CCCP" (or USSR, for that matter) means. Then ask him for the first thing that pops into his mind when you say "Ancient Rome." Yeah, go up to a little kid and ask him if he likes gladiator movies.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:10
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Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, go up to a little kid and ask him if he likes gladiator movies. Or if he's ever been in a Turkish prison?
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Oct 12, 2016 21:24
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MMAgCh posted:The omnibus contains a short story in which he's basically described as one of the earliest founding members of the Mechanicum. I suppose that makes it reasonably likely that some information about him would be found in a few Martian data-vaults. They never delete anything, after all. In all fairness Rome lasted over 1000 years as a major empire and the Emperor has a raging boner for it. CCCP was a 75 year thing.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:08
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mllaneza posted:One of the primarchs, probably Lorgar, is mentioned as having a translated copy of the Voynich Manuscript in his library. Not one of the primarchs, Ahriman. Perturabo, on the other hand, has a bunch of Leonardo da Vinci's drawings.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:10
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There was also an audio drama where Malcador the Sigillite was collecting historical artifacts to safeguard them. One of them was the Rosetta stone. Come to think of it, shouldn't the Great Crusade-era Imperium be most interested in the Dark Age of Technology, when technical sophistication and scientific insight was at its height? Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 22:51
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The Imperium has weird priorities about technological history? Nooooooooo.
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Oct 13, 2016 01:20
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Guy Goodbody posted:One of the Horus Heresy books mentions someone having read all three of Shakespire's plays Timon of Athens, Two Gentlemen of Verona, and The Comedy of Errors. Truly, the grimmest and/or darkest of all possible futures.
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Oct 13, 2016 02:19
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Kopijeger posted:There was also an audio drama where Malcador the Sigillite was collecting historical artifacts to safeguard them. One of them was the Rosetta stone. That was also a short story in the "The Silent War" anthology, which was pretty cool, especially as a branch in the main storyline after Flight of the Eisenstein..
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Oct 13, 2016 16:53
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Someone in the Heresy literally remembers assassinating Martin Luther King Jr., so 
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Oct 14, 2016 03:59
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Preechr posted:Someone in the Heresy literally remembers assassinating Martin Luther King Jr., so That's personal memory from an immortal man. Which is very different from institutional memory or historical knowledge.
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Oct 14, 2016 17:16
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Bit of an odd question: Has anyone ever in-universe mocked the Death Guard by calling them a Lesion rather than a Legion.
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Oct 14, 2016 17:20
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Don't think so but I could totally see a Cain book where some plague marine complains about Jurgen's body odor.
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Oct 14, 2016 17:35
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The Sex Cannon posted:Can anyone tell me why Mortarion fell to chaos? Is it just that he and Horus were bros? He seemed like a pretty well-balanced dude. Mortarion was raised under an ideology of only the toughest survive (due to it being a death world) and through that strength and endurance ruled, where reaving psykers would come in and mow down those strongest when they tried to stop them. He hates hates HATES psykers as a result, and was one of the ones pushing to have them banned and exterminated in the new Imperium. The repressed side of that is, while he covered it well, he did not like his psycher family members as well. He was also the physically toughest of all of them. So under his ideology, he was the one most worthy to rule (toughest) and the psykers were again robbing him and his of their due right to rule. He was angry about this, but couldn't really due poo poo because dear old dad is psyker #1 so he kept it quiet, played the game of appearing to be smooth and amiable but was really becoming increasingly bitter. When the opportunity arose he immediately joined with Horus because he wanted to get rid of the psykers, and then intended to betray Horus after the Emperor was deposed and assume the throne himself. Because he was the toughest and the toughest deserve to rule. However he knew he couldn't straight up beat Horus so he started dabbling in sorcery to have an edge. And as he saw Lorgar and Horus using more of it, he began to do more as well. So he always thought he was entitled to rule, became bitter he couldn't, jumped at betrayal for his own ambition, then in a massive display of hypocrisy started doing the stuff he hated while admitting through his actions that he wasn't the strongest and thus didn't deserve to rule. Khan more or less lays this out amidst a duel on Prosperto (the Death Guard was raiding it for knowledge and because Mortarion had used prophecy to know Khan would be there) while Mortarion was asking Khan to join him and help overthrow Horus. Khan points out that he is a hypocritical narcissist with delusions of how good he is, and deep down Mortarion knows it too - if Mortarion were as deserving to rule as he claims he wouldn't need Khan's help and Morty was begging for help because he was a failure and knew it; also the hypocrisy of hating psykers while coming to Prosperto to be better at it) Which is why the White Scars and Death Guard hate each other
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Oct 14, 2016 18:38
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Where do the farts figure in all of that
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Oct 14, 2016 19:11
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Shakespire said it best- A primarch fart in he own mouth... a shameful primarch
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Oct 14, 2016 20:10
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Skarsnik posted:Where do the farts figure in all of that He gets high on his own supply
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Oct 14, 2016 21:51
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Safety Factor posted:Angels of Caliban was decent. The two main plotlines are the Lion hunting Curze in Imperium Secundus and Luther doing his thing on Caliban. No Erebus involved at all. The ending is really loving stupid though. Have to disagree with this. Everyone in Angels of Caliban was aggressively, painfully stupid. It develops the plot, but in the stupidest possible way. Better to read a synopsis than suffer through reading it yourself. Hopefully Praetorians of Dorn is better, as it's next on my list.
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Oct 15, 2016 11:26
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Cat Army
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I decided to skip Angels of Caliban myself. Having then read a summary of it, I do not regret that descision. Praetorians of Dorn I finished last week. It's not bad. Consequential stuff actually happens. There's a little to much for plausibility "Ha Ha! Just as planned" from the Alpha Legion side but it's basically a decent read.
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Oct 15, 2016 11:44
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Fried Chicken posted:mortarion stuff Thanks for this. I've never really given a poo poo about the Death Guard, but this makes them seem much more interesting. I'm like halfway through Fulgrim and here are some spicy hot takes: - The Iron Hands are very stupid. - The Emperor's Children are a bunch of mooks. - Fulgrim still suuuuuuuuucks. - Good thing they added strong, multi-dimensional female characters. - Eldrad's gracefully tapering ears.
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Oct 17, 2016 17:50
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The Sex Cannon posted:Thanks for this. I've never really given a poo poo about the Death Guard, but this makes them seem much more interesting. When you finish with Fulgrim, check it's continuation, the novella "The reflection crack'd", it's the icing on the cake of the Emperor's Children stupidity.
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Oct 17, 2016 18:29
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Angry Lobster posted:When you finish with Fulgrim, check it's continuation, the novella "The reflection crack'd", it's
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Oct 17, 2016 18:58
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Fulgrim is like sigvald the magnificent except less fabulous and more of a fuckboy. Besides fabulous bile already exists
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Oct 17, 2016 19:15
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I really like the idea of pre-Heresy Emperor's Children obsessiveness and I also love Noise Marines, so the Emperor's Children are okay in my books.
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Oct 17, 2016 19:25
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From the Weird Fanart thread, I thought these looked aweseome:  
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Oct 17, 2016 21:08
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Some Russians made these mildly amusing songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu7ddmL6Vfs&t=155s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz7jOry30f4&t=90s
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Oct 19, 2016 18:56
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I just finished Fulgrim. Thoughts: - A death and sex orgy. Cool, man. - Iron Hands more like Iron Heads am i right - Fulgrim got exactly what he deserved - Horus just straight up didn't care about Fulgrim's fate. I though they were besties? The Emperor's Children are the worst Legion. What a bunch of assholes.
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Oct 21, 2016 15:34
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I don't think Horus doesn't care. He did resolve to avenge him after all.
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Oct 21, 2016 15:39
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The Sex Cannon posted:I just finished Fulgrim. Thoughts: Yeah but Fulgrim's uhm 'replacement' gets retconned almost immediately in the novella mentioned a few posts up but then he decides 'Welp. Guess I'll turn to Slannesh anyway' and he ends up becoming a Demon Lord. It's almost as if they didn't plan anything out in advance and indidvidual authors are making up whatever plotline they want as they go along *cough* Imperium Secundus *cough*.Edit: Incidentally, I tend to listen to the Heresy books as audiobooks. Does anybody else who does this find the name 'Imperium Secundus' sound increasingly clunky and annoying with every repetition. Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 17:32
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There's a bit in Path of Heaven where Horus says to Mortarian that he's not too bovved about fulgrim buggering off to be weird and sexy as he only needed him for Istvaan
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Oct 21, 2016 18:00
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Deptfordx posted:Edit: Incidentally, I tend to listen to the Heresy books as audiobooks. Does anybody else who does this find the name 'Imperium Secundus' sound increasingly clunky and annoying with every repetition.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:34
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Arquinsiel posted:If you actually know Latin then not only does "secundus" mean second, it also means "following" and thus, idiomatically is a nautical term meaning "favourable" so... yeah, not sure that was intentional. It's not the Latin, you'd have to be pretty cloistered not to work out the whole 'Second Empire' naming convention. It's the artificial way it's used. No one says The New Empire/Imperium, or the Second Empire, or anything else that would sound even vaguely natural. It's the incredibly clunky way everyone says 'Imperium Secundus' in the inconsistent style that they use Latin (quite often cod Latin) when they feel like it.
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Oct 23, 2016 01:54
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