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It took me about three months of fitful indifference, but I finally finished The Crippled God. I guess I'm glad to see the series went out with a limp, wet fart rather than the aggressively incoherent badness of Dust of Dreams.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:41
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Number Ten Cocks posted:It took me about three months of fitful indifference, but I finally finished The Crippled God. I guess I'm glad to see the series went out with a limp, wet fart rather than the aggressively incoherent badness of Dust of Dreams. Dust of Dreams was good. I'm on Return on the Crimson Guard. While Ice is no Steven Erikson this books deals with a LOT of characters I wanted to know more about. Man, Daddy Toc sure is cool.
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Nov 1, 2016 06:58
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snoremac posted:In the previous post I'd only read of hobbling as a custom. I just reached the actual hobbling. I assume that's what Captain Person expressed dismay over in that spoilered post. The Malazans should never have sided with these jerks! Eh, if you reread MoI you will realize that the Barghast were never nice at all. Humbral Taur, Hetan and the shaman-brother were the smart Barghast and the rest, not so much. That includes the Barghast gods as well. The Barghast can best be described as the hillbillies the Moranth left behind.
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Nov 1, 2016 08:08
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turboraton posted:Dust of Dreams was good.  Really? I might have to read some ICE some after all.
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Nov 1, 2016 08:24
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Knobb Manwich posted:
ICE isn't bad when compared to normal fantasy, but everything he writes will always be in comparison to Erikson.
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Nov 1, 2016 08:50
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I read his first one and peaced out. 
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Nov 1, 2016 09:07
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turboraton posted:I'm on Return on the Crimson Guard. While Ice is no Steven Erikson this books deals with a LOT of characters I wanted to know more about. Man, Daddy Toc sure is cool.
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Nov 2, 2016 13:57
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Well, Dust of Dreams crams in a whole lot of shocks near the end. Where this is all going I haven't a clue, but it's definitely set the stage for the finale. I liked it, even if it lags in parts (the Shake stuff in particular), and it's making me a little nervous that Erikson's still being so coy about some characters' destinations and motivations so close to the ending. Question about Icarium: So did he basically absorb the souls of those people at the end of Reaper's Gale and it was him alone venturing through the skykeep with all of them inhabiting his mind? Was the machine under Letheras some kind of K'Chain Che'Malle, uh, thing? Telorast and Curdle: Were they two of those three dragons from many books back who were chained up inside Kurald Emurlahn, the ones Cotillion spoke to? If not, who were they again? Does it matter anymore? The bad K'Chains: Not a question, but I liked how the mystery of the skykeeps QB and Kalam found in Bonehunters was finally explained. There are a hundred little mysteries like that scattered throughout the series and I've forgotten most of them, but I'd hung onto that one. Cool reveal.
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Nov 2, 2016 17:32
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1) Yes and no. The machine under Letheras IIRC he built himself and has something to do with trying to open a new set of Warrens. How much it achieved is questionable since Warrens have been manifesting over there since MT and the Malazans showed up with them. 2) No, IIRC the two dragons there were aspected, which Telorast and Curdle aren't (probably by virtue of K'rul not being as crazy as that). And a lot of the dragon stuff will come together in TCG. I don't really remember what they talked about, though. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 18:54
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Thank you. I forget the subject of their conversation, but I remember Cotillion took advantage of the dragons' arrogance to extract information without having to free them, which now that I think about it doesn't fit T&C's personalities.
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Nov 2, 2016 20:58
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Well, after what feels like years of bashing my head against these books, and with The Great Ordeal still months off, I took another swing at the first book. And then the second. And the third. Oh my god I loving get it now. Like, there's still a lot that pisses me the gently caress off (*cough* Kruppe *cough*) and he constantly overplots and obfuscates (still have no idea how Kulp managed to get out of Kurald Emuhrlain), but it actually finally fits together. I know why Jaghuts are so scary! I care about (some of) the Bridgeburners. I no longer want to smack Paran round the mouth. Scattered thoughts: Gardens of the Moon A lot of people criticise Erikkson's writing in Gardens compared to the later books, but I actually didn't find the prose too bad. The structuring is pretty messy though, there's little logic to where the Book divisions come, and the epigraphs are splattered around with absolutely no regard for how they fit into the narrative. To give an example: Book One - Pale opens with an epigraph on the history Malazan military action, ending with "In the Year of Burn's Sleep 1163, the Siege of Pale ended with a now legendary sorcerous conflagration....", which screams for all the world that the following chapter is going to show us the breaking of the Siege of Pale. Instead, we jump to 1161 on a completely different sodding continent. There's refusing to hold your reader's hand, and then there's deliberately tripping their ankles. Felisin's opening epigraph spells out that the Emperor ascended. "The Emperor is dead/So too his master'd companion/the rope cut clean" was a cute little touch. The first half of the Daruijhistan chapters keep obliquely referring to Mammot and Baruk as "the alchemist" and if it wasn't for the DP list I'd be convinced they were the same person (until they both appear on page at once) According to the Foreword this book started life as a movie script centred around the events in Darujhistan, and can actually see it working in Lock, Stockcrime-farce kind of way - Crokus' plot is basically a heist movie, the Bridgeburner's plot is basically a heist movie, Murillio's plot is basically a heist movie. You could trim out the stuff at Pale, and shift the release of the Tyrant as a last minute betrayal and it'd be a fun little movie. Shame nobody would ever fund it. Deadhouse Gates gently caress Nethpara. gently caress Mallick Rell. gently caress Pormqual. gently caress Korbolo Dom. Structurally, I think this is by far the strongest of the early books - it eases into the setting a lot better than the first one, and while most of the plots are a straight "get from A to B" there's such a great escalation in stakes and shifting in what getting to B will actually mean. I found the restriction of Duiker's PoV in the battle scenes really frustrating (would have much preferred a Bakker-style zooming-out from the action so I could actually follow the battle) but it was certainly effective in capturing the sheer chaos and obscenity of war, especially in the early scene with the cussers in the ford. Everything around the Semk god, the convergence of Apt and Lostari at the camp while Duiker was attacking, was an absolute disaster of pacing and plotting, and frankly should have been cut out. Although I think the limited PoV worked masterfully in capturing the sheer impotence and feeling of inevitability in the betrayal at Arren. Did I mention gently caress Pormqual? I really liked the exploration of the history of the First Civilisation - how they nuked themselves into Otataral trying to become soletaken and had to be forcefully put down by the Imass. Reminds me a lot of Dominions. Gothos reveals that Icarium wounded a warren which caused his present instability - given how Kulp escaped from KE I'm a bit worried what this means for Stormy and co's path to ascendancy. Kalam sees a "fake" seer, who claims that all our fates rest upon the Obelisk card, which is allegedly inactive in Seven Cities - I guess Obelisk is either the Jade Pillar, or Caladan Brood (who, despite being an ascendant, doesn't seem to have a card or be tied to a house) so either way, she's probably the most accurate seer since Rigga. Memories of Ice I had a sort of "oh poo poo this guy's actually a genius" moment when I realised that Baaljag is the wolf cub from the clay-covered ay that Pran Chole finds in the first prologue - but I can't quite make the timelines match up unless ay live for millenia (or Baaljag was undead before being joined with Fanderay) I swear I read that it was Kilava that bound Fanderay to Baaljag, but I can't find it in my kindle notes. With that, and how she accidentally threw the Jaghut children through a portal to Hell, i'm starting to think Kilava might be a bit of a idiot. Structurally this is by far the weakest book so far - it's the same basic idea as Deadhouse (army marches until collapse, while a smaller group wander around unearthing magical secrets) but while Deadhouse spent most of its time examining the horrors of war, Memories intercuts between an endless procession of bickering soldiers. Given the weight of the events there's a shocking lack of gravitas. Except when we cut to yet another of the Mhybe's dreams, then it's too much gravitas, and far too maudlin. There's also so many weird decisions in what Erikson wants to actually show the reader - He's perfectly happy to show us someone walking back and forth to bring people to a meeting, but Gruntle's emotionally charged speech over a dead child and valiant rallying of troops into a god-infused army....happens off-screen. The Lady Envy sections are like something out of a webcomic/harem comedy. What the christ was Erikson thinking? The Knight of Death is Baudin, right? He's a Malazan, with weird skin, who remembers a fire and failing to save a girl. Sounds like Baudin. I'm not quite sure about the significance of the twin swords, one with a dent in it. Why do the Marine sister's guarding Silverfox not get names? I'm scratching my head trying to figure out if we should know them or not. Itkovian owns. Itkownsian. [/quote] Predictions (as of the first few chapters of House of Chains) The Forkrul Assail that Karsa finds has too many joints, like the corpse in Tremorlor. The ghost-Jaghut that Corporal List sees in Deadhouse also has too many finger joints - is this something the two races share, or is the ghost actually Forkrul? Karsa is blatantly Toblakai, and the Teblor's lack of knowledge about the outside world is pretty funny (although admittedly, the outside world has surprisingly little knowledge about the outside world) Some sort of huge conflict is brewing, and I can't quite piece it together - Callow is attacked by mysterious sea-borne armies, and some sort of ice power is brewing far away. Presumably this will mark the return of either the Tiste Edur (who might still be around doing weird poo poo with the Moranth) as they're established as being seafarers, and the Throne of Shadow (which Paran identifies as Kurald Galain, but given how Everybody is Wrong is kind of a theme of these books, I'm inclined to say is Kurald Emerlain) talks about them being poisoned and corrupted by some new Emperor - I'm thinking they originally served the Crippled God (who's warren that the Andii destroyed was described as "nascent", the same as the smashed up bits of KE) but given his abandonment of the Elder Warrens in favour of those in the Deck someone else has stepped up to take over. There's one epigraph I want to quote in full, all the way back from Gardens of the Moon: "It is said that the matron's blood like ice brought forth into the world a birthing of dragons, and this flowing river of fate brough like into dark and dark into light, unveiling at last in cold, cold eyes the children of chaos... T'matha's Children Heboric" Now T'matha means broken something, and is often used to describe undead (T'lan Imass, T'lan Ay), and the use of Matron makes me think of the K'Chain Che'Malle Matron. So, it seems this is prophecying some sort of union between the Tiste Andii and the Tiste Lighty, but that also we're going to be getting dragons coming out the Rent at Morn. Not just any dragons. Chaos Dragons 
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Nov 3, 2016 21:02
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Deadhouse Gates quote:Memories of Ice The two marines are nobody in particular, just two random Malazan marines who were assigned to the duty. quote:Predictions (as of the first few chapters of House of Chains) The ghost is a Jaghut iirc, talks about the Jaghut-Imass war. I cannot remember if the ghost was anyone in particular but I don't think so. The rest of your speculation is RAFO, you're very close on a lot of it though. Keep reading!!
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Nov 4, 2016 00:50
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It didn't take long before I started skimming the poetic epigraphs and then skipping them altogether. Especially if it's a Fisher.
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Nov 4, 2016 02:15
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snoremac posted:It didn't take long before I started skimming the poetic epigraphs and then skipping them altogether. Especially if it's a Fisher. 
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Nov 4, 2016 02:38
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They're good
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Nov 4, 2016 03:15
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:They're good It's more that I'm bad at reading poetry than that the poetry is bad.
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Nov 4, 2016 03:20
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That's fair. Also there are definitely some duds in the later books where every chapter starts with two pages of blank verse about being sad
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Nov 4, 2016 03:24
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There are plenty of tasty tidbits. Like the future Sword of the Empire.
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Nov 4, 2016 03:41
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Strom Cuzewon posted:i'm starting to think Kilava might be a bit of a idiot. Kilava is probably the one character who is responsible for most major fuckups in the Malazan world. Strom Cuzewon posted:Itkovian owns. Itkownsian. This forever.
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Nov 4, 2016 08:18
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Cardiac posted:Kilava is probably the one character who is responsible for most major fuckups in the Malazan world. - Whirlwind Godess - Tool being lonely and depressed until he meets Toc, but this is probably also due to being fired... Haha. "I've been doing this job for 200k years, and am now a dessicated corpse. How am I gonna get a new job?" - Pannion Seer - I guess she can be blamed for Trake dying to? Feels like I missed some things...
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Nov 4, 2016 09:04
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zokie posted:Full series spoilers: The poetry before chapters contains some great foreshadowing but it's really more of "it clicks on a reread" material. Can't really say anything about the quality but just to read the worst offender is by far Toc.
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Nov 4, 2016 09:27
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zokie posted:Full series spoilers: Killing off her entire family except Tool and thereby avoiding the T'lan Ritual? Wasn't she the mother of Trake as well?
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Nov 4, 2016 09:33
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House of Chains posted:Ascendancy was but one of the countless mysteries of the world, a world where uncertainty ruled all - god and mortal alike - and its rules were impenetrable. I love these little moments of self-aware humour. Like when K'rull tells Lady Envy (and this is an exact quote) "I don't loving know what's happening, I'm just winging it"
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Nov 4, 2016 15:45
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I am currently reading Midnight Tides and Tehol & Bugg's chemistry is probably my favorite so far in the series. There are many great duos in Malazan such as Tool/Toc, Hedge/Fiddler, Mappo/Icarium, Kalam/QB and others but Tehol/Bugg are just too hilarious.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:36
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Agreed, they're hilarious.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:40
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Ulio posted:I am currently reading Midnight Tides and Tehol & Bugg's chemistry is probably my favorite so far in the series. There are many great duos in Malazan such as Tool/Toc, Hedge/Fiddler, Mappo/Icarium, Kalam/QB and others but Tehol/Bugg are just too hilarious. Karsa and Samar Dev, imo.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:49
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I think my absolute favourites are still Shadowthrone and Cotillion, but we see them playing off each other so few times, I probably default to liking Tehol and Bugg best.
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Nov 5, 2016 04:09
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Is it also ever explained how people show up to CG's place in Midnight Tides? Can he just forcefully summon anyone?
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Nov 5, 2016 04:55
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Ulio posted:Is it also ever explained how people show up to CG's place in Midnight Tides? Can he just forcefully summon anyone? Rhulad's soul is drawn there by the magic sword while I think Withal is there physically. It's an actual place in the world, I don't think it's in a warren. snoremac fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 05:13
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Ulio posted:Is it also ever explained how people show up to CG's place in Midnight Tides? Can he just forcefully summon anyone? MT Most gods have some sort of general summon/teleport ability, but the CG's is most likely pretty weak. Plus, the Lether continent is a special case due to Mael's spell so souls are just hanging around in limbo, which makes it possible for him to summon the Naachts and Sandalath (I think it's also the reason the Edur can forcefully enslave Andii wraiths and Shurq can still exist). But I agree with snoremac, Rhulad's soul gets auto-summoned due to the sword and is repeatedly sent back to his body. The island is probably an actual place in the world (that had some sort of barrier around it). IIRC the CG's tent is a warren fragment.
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Nov 5, 2016 09:21
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So did touching the sword summon Rhulad or him dieing with the sword? Was he actually intending the sword to get to Hannan Mosag so he could summon him through the sword? Also is there any context to how strong CG is during this time could a warlock like Mosag straight up kill him. I don't understand did he want to actually summon Mosag because he didn't want to do war with the Letherii or he intended the sword to be taken by someone else to overthrow the king.
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Nov 5, 2016 16:49
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I think it's as simple as Mosag wanted the undying power of the sword for himself, was likely promised its power from the Crippled God. Unclear if he would then go on to conquer Letheras but I imagine he would. Whole series spoiler: Probably the plot was that CG gets Mosag to unite the Edur and Letheras, takes that force across the wastes to free himself. Mosag was hungry for that power and presumably would have handled it better. Instead Rhulad goes mad with torment and focuses his resources on finding a champion strong enough to kill him for good. The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 16:53
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Yeah, I think the idea was to build a force strong enough to take on the Forkrul Assail and get as many of the pieces as possible - you get the economic power of Letheras and expert seafaring of the Edur. Plus the geography and fairly rigid society helps - imagine the shitstorm if the sword ended up in Malaz.
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Nov 5, 2016 17:09
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Ya now I am just imagining an undying Karsa but ya I guess that explains CG's intent.
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Nov 6, 2016 02:29
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Is the Karsa trilogy a joke or a thing that's gonna happen? I've seen it mentioned here and there but don't want to check incase of TCG spoilers.
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Nov 6, 2016 03:31
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Yes Erikson himself said it is happening after the Kharkanas trilogy. Even a few recent comments to the effect of "that's still the plan." Honestly would be a little surprised if Kharkanas doesn't get a fourth book though. As it stands the third book seems like it will have a lot of water to carry.
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Nov 6, 2016 03:43
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That's what I currently think about The Crippled God. On a different note, this book is easily the best named. Even before I got into the series I remember looking at the book in a shop and thinking "cool title".
snoremac fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Nov 6, 2016 |
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Nov 6, 2016 05:12
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Ulio posted:So did touching the sword summon Rhulad or him dieing with the sword? Was he actually intending the sword to get to Hannan Mosag so he could summon him through the sword? Also is there any context to how strong CG is during this time could a warlock like Mosag straight up kill him. I don't understand did he want to actually summon Mosag because he didn't want to do war with the Letherii or he intended the sword to be taken by someone else to overthrow the king. Quick Ben met CG, poked him in the eye and didn't stick around to go head to head. I imagine if QB was wary, with his far more dexterous magic than what Mosag has, then yeah I don't think Mosag could take CG without a massive ritual of the Edur warlocks backing him up... which taps chaos for power, which CG provides to them. The sword was promised to Mosag. Mosag knew the sword was a poisoned chalice because he repeatedly warned the Sengar boys not to touch it. I imagine he was planning to study it/find a way to use it without being a puppet of the CG, and defend the Edur rather than conquering Letheras. Ulio posted:Ya now I am just imagining an undying Karsa but ya I guess that explains CG's intent. CG wanted a puppet leader for an army of Teblor to gently caress poo poo up. I think offering Karsa the sword was opportunism rather than long term plans approaching fruition.
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Nov 6, 2016 05:19
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MT The Edur didn't use chaotic magic until recently. They only switched because Mosag did it first and united the Edur clans; the power he got from the CG was much stronger than whatever Emurlahn fragments the rest of the Edur used. Other than that, Knobb is right in that Mosag had no intention of conquering Lether. He just wanted to use the CG's power to lead and protect the Edur from Letherii exploitation/influence, but Rhulad usurped him and ruined that plan. Whole series I don't think the CG had an overarching plan since his only philosophy pre-DoD was "this world hosed me over, I hope everyone in it suffers as much as I do". Controlling armies and champions to spread misery happened to be a convenient way to do it. It wasn't until DoD or so that he was convinced to try and save himself.
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Nov 6, 2016 06:14
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Knobb Manwich posted:The sword was promised to Mosag. Mosag knew the sword was a poisoned chalice because he repeatedly warned the Sengar boys not to touch it. I imagine he was planning to study it/find a way to use it without being a puppet of the CG, and defend the Edur rather than conquering Letheras.
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Nov 6, 2016 12:04
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