PYF Dangerous Chemistry: Fluorine protecting Its Modesty...

The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Favorite: Carefully Curated > PYF Dangerous Chemistry: Fluorine protecting Its Modesty...

«‹›524 »

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

mllaneza posted:

I'm surrounded by azoles !

RIP you.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 11:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 11, 2024 18:38

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-38991983

quote:

University buildings were evacuated when a student accidentally made the same highly explosive substance that was used in the Paris terror attacks.

An investigation by Bristol University has found that triacetone triperoxide (TATP) was "unintentionally formed during a routine procedure".

A cordon was set up around the university's chemistry block during the incident earlier this month.

No-one was injured and a controlled explosion was carried out.
[...]
"As soon as the presence of TATP was identified the student immediately notified those responsible for laboratory safety in the school.

The terrorism link is awfully sensationalist, but apart from that I wonder how that happens and what the routine is. Do you check for high explosives at every step in certain procedures, just in case?

# ? Feb 16, 2017 12:44

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

My Lovely Horse posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-38991983

The terrorism link is awfully sensationalist, but apart from that I wonder how that happens and what the routine is. Do you check for high explosives at every step in certain procedures, just in case?

Did you know that terrorists chiefly consist of carbon and water?

Makes you think.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 13:55

Watermelon Daiquiri: Jul 10, 2010; I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

GMOs have the same CHEMICALS as TERRORISTS!!

really makes u think.......

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:46

darthbob88: Oct 13, 2011; YOSPOS

My Lovely Horse posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-38991983

The terrorism link is awfully sensationalist, but apart from that I wonder how that happens and what the routine is. Do you check for high explosives at every step in certain procedures, just in case?

I expect for certain procedures there isn't so much a "run a sample through a spectrometer, just to make sure you haven't accidentally made boom juice" as "this step will probably involve the creation of an organic peroxide as an intermediary, so try not to sneeze".

# ? Feb 16, 2017 18:31

Buff Skeleton: Oct 24, 2005

Wylie posted:

Christ, what an azole

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedN.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 19:36

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Buff Skeleton posted:

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedN.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 20:38

nmfree: Aug 15, 2001; The Greater Goon: Breaking Hearts and Chains since 2006

My Lovely Horse posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-38991983

Derek Lowe already has a writeup:

quote:

How Not to Do It: TATP

You may well have heard about an incident at the University of Bristol, where a student inadvertently prepared some triacetone triperoxide (TATP). That�s a substance that I definitely won�t work with, but I haven�t done an entry on it in that category because of its unfortunate significance. No one is going to make a batch of FOOF at home, but TATP is another matter. It can be prepared from (reasonably) common chemicals, and thus is a favorite weapon of terrorist bombers the world over. Its main defect is its extreme sensitivity, which at least at one time earned it the nickname (in Arabic) of �Mother of Satan�. Here�s the Wikipedia page on acetone peroxides (there are several) if you want that on your browser history. Let there be no doubt: synthesizing and handling TATP in any sort of large quantity is an invitation to be killed without warning, and �large� kicks in quite early on the scale. High-energy compounds have no regard for the humans working with them; you�ll get more consideration from a hungry leopard, who at least might regard you as useful for his own ends.

When the Bristol story came out, it was hard to understand how someone wanders into making TATP, but this C&E News story has all the details. It was in the workup of a chlorite oxidation reaction done in acetone, and the original prep suggested adding a small amount of 30% hydrogen peroxide at the end to consume some yellow by-products (such as chlorine dioxide, which you�d rather not have around). The student tried it, and the yellow was still there, so he added some more. And some more, and some more. Without thinking, he got up to about 50 mL of peroxide, and on the workup, he noticed that he had a lot more organic phase material than he should have during the extraction. That, fortunately, was when the mental alarm went off � had he carried on and rota-vapped that stuff down, this story would doubtless have a much different ending. Theoretical yield was about 40g of TATP, which is too much by any reasonable person�s definition.

They called in the bomb squad, who did a controlled demolition, and that sounds like probably the right choice. If the TATP were diluted, it could probably be moved and then decomposed slowly, but the report is that the liquid was already becoming more viscous, so I can understand the caution. I wouldn�t volunteer to add the extra DI water to that sep funnel myself, much less any reducing agent. I�m very glad that no one was injured, and that this has perhaps called some attention (once again) to the fact that acetone and hydrogen peroxide do not live harmoniously.

Buff Skeleton posted:

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedN.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 23:41

Kinetica: Aug 16, 2011

Buff Skeleton posted:

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedN.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 10:25

LordSaturn: Aug 12, 2007; sadly unfunny

Hello from BSS! I have what I hope is a reasonable science question to do with this page, where Iron Man is fighting an early arch-nemesis, Titanium Man:

My question is, can someone please hold forth at length about the combustibility of titanium? I assume it does ignite above a certain temperature, similar to aluminum, and I also suspect that it oxidizes very violently. Is that true?. What would it take to extinguish? Does it manage to self-oxidize in water?

EDIT: Thanks! Carrying that back.

LordSaturn has a new favorite as of 04:16 on Feb 20, 2017

# ? Feb 20, 2017 04:01

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Titanium can burn underwater by stripping the oxygen from water molecules. The normal way to extinguish metal fires is either to smother them (sand, chemical foam) or cool them (expanding CO2). It's not easy though.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 04:10

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

Hydrogen peroxide would royally gently caress over titanium man something fierce.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 04:12

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; erm... actually thieves should be summarily executed

Mustached Demon posted:

Hydrogen peroxide would royally gently caress over titanium man something fierce.

Or any halogenated organic compound, iirc.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 05:17

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Titanium Man�s kryptonite is tap water.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 05:20

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

I thought the titanium in the SR71 could only be worked by special tools, otherwise the metal would corrode mid-flight and send everyone back to the ground prematurely. I want to say the tools had to be chromium?

# ? Feb 20, 2017 06:52

LeastActionHero: Oct 23, 2008

Apparently tools at the time were commonly cadmium plated, to prevent corrosion. Presumably they switched to stainless steel or something similar.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 08:01

Hyperlynx: Sep 13, 2015

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

GMOs have the same CHEMICALS as TERRORISTS!!

really makes u think.......

GMOs have the same chemicals as non-GMOs, too! The conspiracy runs deep!

# ? Feb 28, 2017 02:45

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

GMO crops contain pieces of Hitler!

# ? Feb 28, 2017 02:49

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Platystemon posted:

GMO crops contain pieces of Hitler!

Homeopathic levels of Hitler!

# ? Feb 28, 2017 02:58

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

The Lone Badger posted:

Homeopathic levels of Hitler!

So much Hitler power.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 04:08

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

The Lone Badger posted:

Homeopathic levels of Hitler!

Dear God, we are all lost.

RUN YOU FOOLS!

# ? Feb 28, 2017 04:10

CleverHans: Apr 25, 2011; Can't post for 8 years!

Things that go FOOF in the night: Homeopathic levels of Hitler

# ? Feb 28, 2017 04:47

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

CleverHans posted:

Things that go FOOF in the night: Homeopathic levels of Hitler

# ? Feb 28, 2017 05:58

`Nemesis: Dec 30, 2000; railroad graffiti

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/03/03/how-not-to-do-it-breaking-up-ammonium-nitrate

New Derek Lowe piece, about BASF using a novel method of separating large hunks of solid ammonium nitrate

# ? Mar 3, 2017 21:44

nmfree: Aug 15, 2001; The Greater Goon: Breaking Hearts and Chains since 2006

`Nemesis posted:

New Derek Lowe piece, about BASF using a novel method of separating large hunks of solid ammonium nitrate

'Novel' is an... interesting way of saying 'dynamite'.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 21:52

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

It's spelled Nobel.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 21:55

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

What's a 560 dead between friends anyway. Imagine the time they saved!

# ? Mar 3, 2017 22:10

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Its always a good reminder that for every little bit of fancy pants research chemical that we like to fawn over, its commodity quantities of boring stuff that has the body count.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 22:36

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

zedprime posted:

Its always a good reminder that for every little bit of fancy pants research chemical that we like to fawn over, its commodity quantities of boring stuff that has the body count.

That's because people get complacent around large quantities of things.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 22:38

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Kwyndig posted:

That's because people get complacent around large quantities of things.

Yes and no. There's also the simple energy balance that just because Klapotke can tailor make chemicals with jaw dropping chemical potential energy per mol, the chemical potential energy in a mountain of ammonium nitrate is a completely different magnitude of energy accessible in one event.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 22:44

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

�Novel� is really something I don�t like to hear applied to explosives.

I�ll take the time‐tested ones, thanks.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 03:33

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

Mustached Demon posted:

Hydrogen peroxide would royally gently caress over titanium man something fierce.

Hmm, I do have a block of titanium downstairs ...

# ? Mar 4, 2017 03:59

Chillbro Baggins: Oct 8, 2004; Bad Angus! Bad!

zedprime posted:

the chemical potential energy in a mountain of ammonium nitrate is a completely different magnitude of energy accessible in one event.

Ammonium nitrate is pretty tame in the context of this thread, but the lack of energy is made up for by the fact that there's a lot of it around when it goes off. As Texas port cities go, I think Galveston has the better record -- at least there, they saw the hurricanes coming and had the chance to run the gently caress away before it got scoured down to bedrock (twice! That's why Houston is now the main port, at the end of a ridiculously expensive canal. Also, Houston is smart enough to tell ships full of ammonium nitrate to take that poo poo somewhere else, away from the oil refineries.)

Speaking of relatively benign explosives in large amounts, we're coming up on the 80th anniversary of the third-worst disaster ( :siren:

warning: a bunch of little kids died, so stop here if you're squeamish about that sort of thing :siren:

) to befall Texas (after the aforementioned Galveston hurricane of 1900 and Texas City all but being nuked) -- in 1937, the little town of New London, in the middle of the biggest oilfield ever discovered at the time, used their oil money to build a nice shiny new million-dollar school. But for some reason they cheaped out on heating the place, and just tapped into the oil company's waste gas line (this was before the oil companies realized they could sell it) instead of getting a proper installation. They also cheaped out on the plumber they hired to install the line, so it leaked. On March 18, literally ten minutes before school (and the PTA meeting in the gym) let out, the shop teacher flipped the switch on a power tool, causing a spark, which ignited the leaked gas in the basement/crawlspace.

Official death toll was around 300, mostly children, but given the intensity of the explosion and the parents attending the PTA meeting, it's better than even odds that some entire families were vaporized, leaving nobody to report them missing.

You know it's bad when Adolf Fuckin' Hitler sends his condolences.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 05:02

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Delivery McGee posted:

I think Galveston has the better record -- at least there, they saw the hurricanes coming and had the chance to run the gently caress away before it got scoured down to bedrock (twice!

Galveston wishes it were built on bedrock. :v: