|
Turd Herder posted:You have to have a water softener. And your in coming ground water temperature will affect the GPM rating it can produce. A whole-house filter is not enough? (currently using GE FXHTC filters) I do have hard water, but as long as I replace the filter on schedule it hasn't been a problem.
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:24 |
|
|
Ok, if I were to add a water softener, does it go before or after the filter?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
You don't need a water softener if you perform annual maintenance. I have hard Arizona water, and I just flush the tankless with vinegar once a year and I've never had problems.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Squashy Nipples posted:A whole-house filter is not enough? (currently using GE FXHTC filters) I'm not sure about that type of filter to be honest. And I believe its recommended by manufacturer. edit : just found a new scale reduction system that Rinnai offers and they mention before this filter you either need a softener or to do yearly maintenance. So I guess it's all really up to you. Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
I know that the gas companies here, have to upgrade your gas meter to allow enough flow if you install a tankless. Most of the bad reviews on rinnai I can find online, mention that the manufacturer blamed inadequate gas pressure. So I guess make sure you have the capacity for it to run properly. Looks like the unit price has dropped substantially since I shopped tankless. At that time (5ish years ago) I was stuck with propane, and between the unit cost and doing some math with an installer...yeah it would not have been cheaper to run over any length of time. I ended up with a first gen GE geospring electric hybrid/heat pump 50 gallon water heater and have been very happy with it. Happy enough I brought it with us when we moved.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
Going to check one more time: does anyone have experience or suggestions for a condensing water heater tank? My understanding is that these have been common for commercial use for years but are only recently becoming somewhat common for residential use. I've been trying to find information on what it would cost to buy and install locally (near Toronto, Ontario, Canada) but haven't had much luck. It seems the best value from them is with a hybrid setup to use it for both hot water as well as heating air. I'm only interested in the hot water, so probably not a great value for me, but would be interested in information. It really seems they're the only way to get an energy factor over 0.85 aside from tankless. I'd rather avoid tankless due to the lag between turning on a hot water faucet and having hot water come out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 08:48
|
|
|
Melraidin posted:Going to check one more time: does anyone have experience or suggestions for a condensing water heater tank? My understanding is that these have been common for commercial use for years but are only recently becoming somewhat common for residential use. So you already have a condensing boiler for heat of some kind (radiators, radiant floor) and you want to also have it make your hot water? The tank just attaches as an additional zone with its own thermostat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
I have an odd (maybe) pressure issue. The water pressure in my house seems to build up and quickly drop. It wouldn't be so bad if it was consistently slow, but when taking showers, you can feel it go up and down. A lot of it seems to happen right after we bathe and the water heater kicks on. I have noticed that the pressure relief valve on the water heater does drip, but only a little. It's just annoying to get this surge of water then it die down to a trickle after a few seconds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 16:43
|
|
|
Gothmog1065 posted:I have an odd (maybe) pressure issue. The water pressure in my house seems to build up and quickly drop. It wouldn't be so bad if it was consistently slow, but when taking showers, you can feel it go up and down. A lot of it seems to happen right after we bathe and the water heater kicks on. I have noticed that the pressure relief valve on the water heater does drip, but only a little. Well? City water? Do you have a PRV?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 20:22
|
|
|
Re: high efficency / better water heater talk. I highly recommend the A.O. Smith Vertex. You have a tank so you don't have the giant PITA that tankless can be (way too many moving parts, need for every 6 month or yearly flushing) but can still take that "unlimited" shower. Plus it goes from stone cold to fully hot in a matter of minutes. Yeah, you'll probably still have to run a new gas line / upgrade the current one if you're switching from a 30 gallon or something. I would suspect the people complaining about the tankless manufacturers blaming gas companies probably had idiots installing their units. I've had to go out to way too many tankless units that other companies installed without upgrading the gas line. (and yeah, upgrading meter size is usually needed here as well but that's for saftey factor, not just to get the unit working at all. Standard meter here is rated for 250,000 BTU/hr, PGE are fine with running up to 350k BTU/hr through it but exceeding that when you switch from 50 gal to tankless is pretty common here)
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
Any tips/tricks to getting an old Moen shower cartridge out? It's probably been in there for 40 years. Firstly, yes the retaining clip has been removed. We tried pulling with vice grips. Tried hitting it with a hammer to loosen up the minerals. Tried heating it, though hopefully not to the extent that we would melt the o-rings. Tried the plastic cartridge tool that comes with the new cartridge. Tried making a metal one out of a section of pipe. Right now it's wrapped in paper towels soaked in vinegar while we figure out what to do next. This thing won't budge.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
FogHelmut posted:Any tips/tricks to getting an old Moen shower cartridge out? It's probably been in there for 40 years. Got a picture?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 03:17
|
|
|
poo poo, pulled the center out of the sleeve. The sleeve is still in the valve body. I either have to tap the sleeve, screw in a bolt, and somehow use that to pull it out. Or call a professional. Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC_45AG63HE FogHelmut fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 03:32
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Well? City water? Do you have a PRV? poo poo, I knew I forgot to add something. City water, not even a quarter mile from the tower.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
FogHelmut posted:Any tips/tricks to getting an old Moen shower cartridge out? It's probably been in there for 40 years. Buy the tool. Now that you've pulled the center out you need this one. You can try using a certain size of easy out (I don't remember which one) to accomplish the same but it really is just easiest to get the tool I linked. It's not carried everywhere, so be ready to go to a couple different hardware stores.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 08:11
|
|
|
Jadunk posted:Buy the tool. Now that you've pulled the center out you need this one. I've also heard of guys taking longer needle noses pliers and bending the very tip of the plier outwards. So they can shave it in the broken cartridge and expand the pliers to grab onto the cartridge. Not sure which one would work better though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 15:39
|
|
|
My bathroom sink slows down after a couple of months. Today took apart the trap, but there wasn't anything in there. What else could be the problem, and what can I do about it? I'm loathe to pour Drano down it regularly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
hooah posted:My bathroom sink slows down after a couple of months. Today took apart the trap, but there wasn't anything in there. What else could be the problem, and what can I do about it? I'm loathe to pour Drano down it regularly. It needs to be snaked. You can rent one form home depot. Don't think you can buy a handheld pistol auger. They suck to operate and don't really work well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
Turd Herder posted:It needs to be snaked. You can rent one form home depot. Don't think you can buy a handheld pistol auger. They suck to operate and don't really work well. Alright. What level of expertise/handiness is required to properly operate one of those?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 01:58
|
|
|
hooah posted:Alright. What level of expertise/handiness is required to properly operate one of those? THey aren't to hard really. It's all about cable size and the cutting head. For what I assume is an 1-1/2 drain line. I'd use either a 1/4 or a 3/8 cable. Get the machine as close to the drain as you can. Feed it slowly in and when you feel a stoppage ease into it. Go back and forth . Keep both hands on the cable spread out. When it catches something or gets to much slack it will wip around and coil up. It hurts when it catches ya. Use leather gloves to operate the snake and i wear latex under the gloves if I have to change the head .(you pretty much have to use leather or metal coated gloves because the snake will grab everything else. And for a head it all depends. I've had good luck with a bulb auger but if they have a bult drop head those are really good for getting around a lot of 90's.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
Qwijib0 posted:So you already have a condensing boiler for heat of some kind (radiators, radiant floor) and you want to also have it make your hot water? The tank just attaches as an additional zone with its own thermostat. No, unfortunately I hadn't looked into this before replacing my furnace that'd crapped out. So I have a gas furnace that's new and a hot water heater that's at least ten years old that I'm renting and interested in replacing. Jadunk posted:Re: high efficency / better water heater talk. I highly recommend the A.O. Smith Vertex. You have a tank so you don't have the giant PITA that tankless can be (way too many moving parts, need for every 6 month or yearly flushing) but can still take that "unlimited" shower. Plus it goes from stone cold to fully hot in a matter of minutes. Yeah, you'll probably still have to run a new gas line / upgrade the current one if you're switching from a 30 gallon or something. I would suspect the people complaining about the tankless manufacturers blaming gas companies probably had idiots installing their units. I've had to go out to way too many tankless units that other companies installed without upgrading the gas line. (and yeah, upgrading meter size is usually needed here as well but that's for saftey factor, not just to get the unit working at all. Standard meter here is rated for 250,000 BTU/hr, PGE are fine with running up to 350k BTU/hr through it but exceeding that when you switch from 50 gal to tankless is pretty common here) That Vertex condensing heater's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Roughly how much was it for you to put in (tank purchase and installation)? Around here I was quoted 5000 CAD for tank and install for an equivalent unit. That's just too much for me to justify. If I could get that price down a bit I'd be far more likely to go for it. Part of my worry is that they seem rare for residential installs around me so I'd worry about any maintenance work getting done well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 04:26
|
|
|
Melraidin posted:That Vertex condensing heater's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Roughly how much was it for you to put in (tank purchase and installation)? Around here I was quoted 5000 CAD for tank and install for an equivalent unit. That's just too much for me to justify. If I could get that price down a bit I'd be far more likely to go for it. Part of my worry is that they seem rare for residential installs around me so I'd worry about any maintenance work getting done well. Depending on difficulty around 5k US would probably be average v 6500 for tankless. (the reason being that around 1/3 of the time we don't end up needing to upsize the gas line where it's more like 99% of the time needing to with tankless conversions, but you always need to have someone that knows their poo poo check it and make that call) Keep in mind I plumb in a very expensive area (SF bay area) and my experience with these is with more "high end" service companies, not cheaper ones. I would suspect you could hire one of the cheaper guys to get it done for somewhere around 3000-3500. I like the Vertex enough that I yelled at my boss until he change his mind about going for it vs tankless. (And he's very happy he did, vertex + recirc w/ timer and aquastat vs old 75 atmospheric vent the vertex cheaper to run and much nicer) Bradford White also makes a high efficiency unit that is pretty comparable, I am not sure what the cost on it would be but I suspect similar. Basically if cost is a factor going for a high efficiency water heat is probably never going to make sense unless you're somewhere crazy remote that makes bringing fuel in cost prohibitive. That said, when mine dies I'm putting in a vertex. (or the bradford equivalent, depends on which one I can get for a lower price) Turd Herder posted:I've also heard of guys taking longer needle noses pliers and bending the very tip of the plier outwards. So they can shave it in the broken cartridge and expand the pliers to grab onto the cartridge. Not sure which one would work better though. The easy-out honestly works pretty decent, it's just a hell of a lot more work than the proper tool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
hooah posted:My bathroom sink slows down after a couple of months. Today took apart the trap, but there wasn't anything in there. What else could be the problem, and what can I do about it? I'm loathe to pour Drano down it regularly. Is it a clog above the trap at the stopper? Try a Zip It.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
Gothmog1065 posted:poo poo, I knew I forgot to add something. City water, not even a quarter mile from the tower. So PRV or not? (pressure regulator valve) If you have one it's likely broken/needs service. If not, it's time to get a pressure gauge on there and figure out if your "low" pressures are still adequate. If so, you can install a prv and set it. You can also just call the water company and ask them. They could have a problem with one of their PRVs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Double post.
Gothmog1065 fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
Motronic posted:So PRV or not? (pressure regulator valve) If you have one it's likely broken/needs service. If not, it's time to get a pressure gauge on there and figure out if your "low" pressures are still adequate. If so, you can install a prv and set it. You can also just call the water company and ask them. They could have a problem with one of their PRVs. So, I looked those up. Are they typically installed after the water meter? I had the town come and open the meter up for me and I didn't see one directly in the box. I'm pretty sure that the line is galvanized iron as well, and pretty old.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 18:55
|
|
|
My old man told me that in Vermont, they are requiring some kind of special mixing valve to be installed on top of water heaters (I think it's an anti-scald device?). He also said that it cost him $600 to get one installed. I've never heard of such a thing. Is this a wide-spread requirement?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
Squashy Nipples posted:My old man told me that in Vermont, they are requiring some kind of special mixing valve to be installed on top of water heaters (I think it's an anti-scald device?). He also said that it cost him $600 to get one installed. They're called Thermostatic Mixing Valves, and yes, they are anti-scald devices. They're fairly new (at least in the US) and are starting to become code because it's a safety feature. They also have another function too. With them, you can crank up the temperature on your water heater and make your hot water last longer, since that valve will mix more cold water to reduce the temp of the water coming from the water heater tank. Also new in the US, higher end shower faucets are starting to have TMVs built in. They're great. You can actually set the temperature with the handle, just like on a thermostat. edit: Still, $600 installed is a bit steep. A 3/4" whole house one runs around $100 just for the valve. Even with the plumber's markup and all the other plumbing bits you'd need to install one in a typical water heater setup, that's a lot for labor. Did he have some weird construction that the plumber had to work around? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
Gothmog1065 posted:So, I looked those up. Are they typically installed after the water meter? I had the town come and open the meter up for me and I didn't see one directly in the box. I'm pretty sure that the line is galvanized iron as well, and pretty old. Yes, after the meter. Squashy Nipples posted:My old man told me that in Vermont, they are requiring some kind of special mixing valve to be installed on top of water heaters (I think it's an anti-scald device?). He also said that it cost him $600 to get one installed. It's getting quite common, but only in new construction and potentially on change of ownership/if the place is a rental for existing buildings.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
kid sinister posted:They're called Thermostatic Mixing Valves, and yes, they are anti-scald devices. They're fairly new (at least in the US) and are starting to become code because it's a safety feature. They also have another function too. With them, you can crank up the temperature on your water heater and make your hot water last longer, since that valve will mix more cold water to reduce the temp of the water coming from the water heater tank. About 5 years ago I was installing some Honeywell 3/4 Mixing valves that I believe my company paid $200 at least for. edit: spelling Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Feb 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Yes, after the meter. We looked, didn't see anything in the meter box and it doesn't look like there is another box. I'm not too awfully worried about the pressure being high or low, even when it is "down" it is fine. Again, it only seems to happen when the hot water is run for an extended period of time. The house is probably going to need to be plumbed anyways, I don't see any reports on when it was last done by the previous owner (Trust me she left EVERYTHING she did there like it made the house value go up). e: I went through her little "book" and I sure as gently caress hope she wrote down the main supply diameter wrong. She said it was 1/2". I'm going to try and crawl under where she said the shutoff is inside, but i have a feeling it is. Gothmog1065 fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Feb 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Gothmog1065 posted:We looked, didn't see anything in the meter box and it doesn't look like there is another box. I'm not too awfully worried about the pressure being high or low, even when it is "down" it is fine. Again, it only seems to happen when the hot water is run for an extended period of time. The house is probably going to need to be plumbed anyways, I don't see any reports on when it was last done by the previous owner (Trust me she left EVERYTHING she did there like it made the house value go up). He didn't mean right after the meter. Check after your main valve inside. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Feb 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
Little help on what to do about replacing a furnace? Furnace had water on the floor under it twice in the last two weeks. Not much, but enough to worry since it's a ~15 year old furnace. Gonna replace it before I have a 2am panic call and all the charges associated with that. Propane or Oil furnace? I have wood backup as well. I've got 2 companies giving quotes both ways so I dont have model numbers or anything of what kinds of furnaces they sell, but will soon I hope.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Water? Is it a furnace or a boiler?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
It's a giant red furnace that heats up water for baseboard heat. I call it a furnace. I don't know if that's the wrong term, but I thought I was doing good  The question isn't really clear but: Should I install a propane or oil furnace in it's place?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 22:50
|
|
|
Technically you'd refer to the burner section of a larger boiler as a furnace, but what you have is a boiler. What fuel do you use right now? Going with what you already have will probably be easiest and cheapest. Otherwise, I'd go with propane over oil mostly because venting is easier, it burns cleaner, and it will be less maintenance.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
Is there a difference in how long propane vs oil furnaces/boilers last? 15years for each? 20? I currently use oil, propane is like 6 feet away though. I get propane at cost, so add that to a what, 4% efficiency boost, and its going to be more cost efficient right? Edit: Also doesnt the oil boiler just vent out of one chimney flue? How is propane easier than that? Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Mar 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
The oil burner will require a little more maintenance to get a long and efficient life since it burns a little dirtier but with that it will last just as long as a propane/gas boiler. Yeah, if you're getting a good deal on propane I'd go for that. A possible hang up would be if you went with a condensing boiler, it's possible the flue would need a liner. But the ease of the venting is that you can just exhaust out a PVC pipe which is easier in a lot of installations.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 06:24
|
|
|
Holy cow, just got quotes and the propane is $9000 for a GV90-5LP Direct Vent boiler and all the other stuff installed. Oil is $6000 for WGO-3 Chimney Vent, Weil McLean boiler and all the stuff installed. I don't think that my cost of propane will ever make up the $3000 difference over the life of the unit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:24 |
|
|
Sorry man, I wasn't busting on you, I'm just a little spergy about terminology, and was genuinely confused. Here is one more factor to consider: Both propane and oil are delivered products, so you need to evaluate the local availability and price. Where I live, there are a million oil companies competing for you delivery business, but virtually no one has propane tanks, so I'm guessing that propane would be a more expensive then it might be elsewhere, and potentially have a longer delivery lead time, as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 16:13
|
|