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I would not buy a Chinese bike unless I lived in China, and maybe not even then.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:57
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Sagebrush posted:I would not buy a Chinese bike unless I lived in China, and maybe not even then. Do you have any data or experience with zongshien bikes to back up that impression? Im looking for horror stories but all I can find are the same issues people have with eurobikes and those still have a positive reputation somehow You know china is a whole huge country not a company right? Its possible to get good things from china, just not normal Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 22:00
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Fauxtool posted:what do you guys think of the zongshien bikes (chinese) sold by csc motorcycles? I cant find much info on long term reliability which makes sense considering they havent been imported until recently. They all have the same powertrain so im not sure there is much difference in reliability between the models gently caress no. For more context, they make the motors for taotao scooters and atvs as well as a couple of poo poo tier $500 dirt bike brands which are well known as complete garbage both mechanically and otherwise. rally fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 22:37
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Sagebrush posted:I would not buy a Chinese bike unless I lived in China, and maybe not even then. Listen to this man. *grenades Chinese scooter*
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Mar 7, 2017 22:41
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Fauxtool posted:Do you have any data or experience with zongshien bikes to back up that impression? Im looking for horror stories but all I can find are the same issues people have with eurobikes and those still have a positive reputation somehow Slavvy posted:Doublepostin' for today's edition of Never Buy A Chinese Bike: Hope this helps.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:43
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I had the pleasure to have 5 days on a Mash 400(also sold as Shineray kougar 400R / WK 400trail adventure) on tenerife just last month. Me and my brother both had one. Good points: The engine has ok torque for 400cc. It 's a small bike so it's easy to toss around in narrow corners. Bad The fit and finish of the bikes was cheap / least effort. cheap switchgear and controls. button for the indicator felt like it would break off. cheap metal( the peg connecting the spring to the sidestand randomly broke off on my brothers bike), got booger welded on by the rental shop mechanic On one of them and the 500cc scrambler also from mash we had in our group you sometimes had to push the gear lever 4 times to get it to go from 1st to 2nd, a reaal pain when accelerating out on a highway etc. Fuel mapping didn't correct for when the bike got warm, it would die on idle unless you manually gave it some throttle. Front dampers was laughable, like riding a pogo stick over 80kmh / 50 mph. These where all 2015 models. the scrambler had 24000km on it, the adventures 2200 and 2800 km. basically almost brand new. if I had bought one of them new I'd be so loving disappointed. i'd take a used japanese something for the same price anyday. Supradog fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 22:50
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Slavvy posted:Hope this helps. nice thanks
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Mar 7, 2017 22:57
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Fauxtool posted:Do you have any data or experience with zongshien bikes to back up that impression? Im looking for horror stories but all I can find are the same issues people have with eurobikes and those still have a positive reputation somehow For me it's not anything particular about reliability (so far I've yet to hear of a Chinese bike that hits European levels of reliability, let alone Japanese, but that may change someday) -- it's the total lack of an American dealer network, parts availability, and local mechanical knowledge. If something breaks, you don't want to be stuck having to order parts from TaoBao, waiting a month for delivery, and figuring out how to install them yourself with a Chinese/no shop manual. In China, I wouldn't be as concerned about finding parts and dealers, or at least being able to take the bike to some local shadetree mechanic who knew that Zongshien used to be Taifan Motor Company which bought Nanang Doujien Small Engine Co. which now sells riding lawnmowers for Foshan Tree And Grass Beauty Concern and therefore you can use the head and valves from a Foshan lawnmower when your engine grenades itself. So I'd be a little more comfortable with the situation there. I'd still try to get a Honda, though. Fauxtool posted:You know china is a whole huge country not a company right? Its possible to get good things from china, just not normal Yea, definitely it's possible to get good stuff from China; nearly everything is made there, after all. You just have to pay an appropriate price. If you're cheaping out, you're not going to get stuff that's very good, and while I haven't looked at Zongshien in particular I bet their prices are a decent chunk lower than, say, an equivalent Kawasaki. I buy poo poo from AliExpress all the time, but I wouldn't buy anything that could kill me if it suddenly failed in use, like a motorcycle. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 23:26
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all good points, I appreciate it I was looking at specifically these bikes http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/CSC-Motorcycles-RX3-Adventure-p/zrx3.htm I live within 10 miles of the company so im not worried about parts and repair. It does have a 2 year unlimited miles dealer warranty, but i still need to see exactly how extensive that warranty is. I need to do more research because there is obviously a catch at these prices, but they arent the $500 deathtrap prices you are used to with chinese scooters. It could just be that the parts are so marked up they dont really care about replacing the whole engine when it explodes. I have already owned a few nicer japanese bikes and I kind of want something really cheap to run and repair where I dont care if it falls over. The issue is that I have heard nothing but good things from the owners but the bike hasnt been out barely 2 years so there arent many reliability reports to go off. A lot of the owners are also 1st time riders that dont really know what "good" is Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 00:47
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Fauxtool posted:all good points, I appreciate it It's a weird catch 22. Owners who are prone to buying these Chinese bikes may not be the best source for info about the bikes' quality.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:34
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rally posted:It's a weird catch 22. Owners who are prone to buying these Chinese bikes may not be the best source for info about the bikes' quality. same with guns, hi-point owners love their guns but dont really know what a good gun is
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Mar 8, 2017 02:03
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I have extensive experience working on Chinese scooters, not much on other Chinese bikes. I work at a bike shop and we see a lot of the scooters. They're the worst built bikes in existence, just ahead of Ural. Exotic italian or old British poo poo does not compare. Chinese scooter manufacturing defines the very concept of not giving a poo poo. A good indicator you can use to tell if what you're buying is horrible poo poo is: where's the dealer network? There is none, for any of the Chinese brands. Random asswipes will buy them in bulk and then sell them to used car dealers to flip to the public. There are no requirements for a "dealer", you don't even have to be able to service them. There is no "company" making them, no one taking responsibility for them, no one supporting them, no one stocking parts for them. It's random poo poo mailed around the world to random places by random people and none of them care about what they're selling. Even Royal Enfield is better than that, and they have a lot of issues. Again, speaking from personal experience here. Some day China may have a robust thriving motor industry like Japan developed in the 50s/60s but they're not there yet and from this side of the Pacific it looks like they're not even attempting it yet.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:00
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im gonna ignore all this good advice and do my best to be backpanther v2 no but really, it sounds like zongshien is making the bikes for CSC rather than just being imported. I dont see anyone else selling their bikes and I dont see all of the models in asia either. Im going to check out their shop for a test ride soon and look at all the usual poor quality indicators like metal parts being plastic, loose fasteners, rattles, and fat uneven welds. Im going to view everything they say with a lot of skepticism. I only heard about them after seeing their booths set up at a few bike meets. If only they could have registered their company in taiwan or south korea they could avoid having a bad rep by default. I agree with chinese scooter manufacturing not giving a poo poo, but applied to anything made in china. To get a good quality product you have to send your own QA inspectors to monitor manufacturing at every step. The second they leave the standards and materials drop and someone's starts skimming. I get stuff made in china for work all the time and I have to switch manufacturers every 3rd order because they only try to follow the template the first few times Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 03:47
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Fauxtool posted:I agree with chinese scooter manufacturing not giving a poo poo, but applied to anything made in china. To get a good quality product you have to send your own QA inspectors to monitor manufacturing at every step. The second they leave the standards and materials drop and someone's starts skimming. Bingo. This happened in my country last year. (tl;dr - 450m contract delayed due to steel failing QA tests upon arrival)
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Mar 8, 2017 04:24
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the fuckyougotmine attitude is so endemic over there its almost funny. They could have done the job correctly and then got repeat business but the short term strategy to underbid everyone and then under deliver and just run with the money is appealing for some reason. You cant then go to china and sue them because the company you were scammed by no longer exists and the govt will tell you to go gently caress yourself I highly recommend the non D&D china thread for more chinese company hijinks https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3790448 Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 04:31
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I think the CSC might be the exception to the rule here: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/csc-250cc-rx-3-cyclone.1007040/ You can dig through the whole thread and there's definitely some quirks to it but it doesn't appear to exist in the same tier as other Chinese bikes. I'd put it closer to MV ownership. Some dumb / annoying poo poo is gonna pop up and it might require some finagling to get it to work but there's forums and owners and a factory to sort it out. I wouldn't recommend it to a newb as a first bike but someone who wanted a cheap / fun project dual sport without plunking down 5k or whatever on a CRF250 Rally, well, you could do worse.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:38
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If you do get one, please keep us updated, cause I'd be interested to find out what the ownership experience is like. Maybe these will be the first Chinese bikes that we can recommend.
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Mar 8, 2017 06:04
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Get one so I can point and laugh at a person on the other side of the world.
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Mar 8, 2017 06:11
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Slavvy posted:Get one so I can point and laugh at a person on the other side of the world. maybe i will jerk!
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Mar 8, 2017 07:25
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i looked a little closer at that bike, why would you want a 300cc mini GS china copy that weighs 415 lbs wet? That 84 MPH top speed is in free fall, reported normal max speed is 70 blank according to the adv forums.
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Mar 8, 2017 08:59
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Supradog posted:i looked a little closer at that bike, why would you want a 300cc mini GS china copy that weighs 415 lbs wet? for a lot of the same reasons people buy a new kia instead of a used miata/corvette
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Mar 8, 2017 11:23
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Nono, I get that. I mean with that weight ratio/speed it's rapidly approaching unsafe because it can't keep up with highway traffic limiting you to where you can ride safely or where you feel like you can ride safely. It is so very nice to be able to effortlessly keep up with traffic/ accelerate away from a blind spot, overtake a distracted mobile user without halv a minute of run-up. If you don't have to worry about that you can ride safer, not having to focus on those annoyances.
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Mar 8, 2017 12:11
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Fauxtool posted:im gonna ignore all this good advice and do my best to be backpanther v2 Please buy a GoPro, thank you in advance. In your case, you will need to video both riding and working on the bike.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:13
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Buy a Chinese knockoff GoPro to continue the theme of bad decisions.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:48
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Watched some reviews on the CSC 230cc dual sport, and it seemed ok. Clone of a honda engine, probably something like the tornado. Granted, the honda tornado is extremely basic, and not very exciting to ride (I loved it, but that's another matter). You lose spare parts ability if you break something small in a crash, or whatever. You'd be better off with a used EX250, for your price range and requirements if you wanted that miniADV. All of this applies to the miniadv, I guess. Get the CSC, and a go pro, because at the very least there isn't much info out there about actual users having these. I feel like I saw a ton of zongshien tornados in Mexico. Apparently chinese bikes are all they really have down there, unless you are super rich. (The yellow one is probably zongshien, and they were everywhere) 
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Mar 8, 2017 16:54
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Met a dude at the track with the csc equivalent of a wr250, it was his recently bought pitbike/citybike. He was riding around in the pits and it blew the top end. Brand new bike with a smattering of city miles.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:04
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To be clear - the first thing I would do if I bought a CSC would be tear it down for inspection. It's a vastly better choice than a beat to poo poo CB750 or whatever if you wanna learn to work on bikes, but it's still a mechanics bike first and riding bike second. What your priorities are is what will determine if it's a good idea or not.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:08
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M42 posted:Met a dude at the track with the csc equivalent of a wr250, it was his recently bought pitbike/citybike. He was riding around in the pits and it blew the top end. Brand new bike with a smattering of city miles. Something tells me the valve clearances on these bikes are set to "start convincingly enough" from the factory. Anything beyond that is on the
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Mar 8, 2017 19:44
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Z3n posted:It's a vastly better choice than a beat to poo poo CB750
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Mar 9, 2017 02:26
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At least a CB750 has a community of people who know how to fix them, good quality English service manuals, and a solid supply of new/eBay replacement parts. And sometimes more -- I can get everything from reservoir shocks to titanium valves for my CL350, if I was crazy enough to spend that kind of money. No one's making valve emulators for a bike with no dealerships in the USA.
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 02:31
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All of that is true but the single most important thing is that the CB750 was Made Properly to start with so repairing things to a factory level usually sorts everything out. Chinese bikes often require ambitious re-engineering to fix the fundamental flaws they don't give a poo poo about at the factory.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:36
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I want to sell/trade my '06 VFR. The wife no longer wants to go touring and it is an awful city commuter bike IMO due to the seating position and lack of 'oomf' thanks to how heavy it is and how little power it has below 6800rpm. Should I get a 2nd-gen Tuono? I want a bike that will make me say "holy poo poo" every time I pin the throttle.
VERTiG0 fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 02:50
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Get a Grom for commuting unless you have a lot of highway miles and then get some 600cc crotch rocket for when you want to feel that "holy poo poo" moment. No matter how big/powerful the bike is, you get used to the acceleration and the only way to keep that wow feeling is to ride something slower for contrast regularly.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:58
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Turbo 'busa. Go big or go home. Make sure you get a GoPro.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:13
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VERTiG0 posted:I want to sell/trade my '06 VFR. The wife no longer wants to go touring and it is an awful city commuter bike IMO due to the seating position and lack of 'oomf' thanks to how heavy it is and how little power it has below 6800rpm. Should I get a 2nd-gen Tuono? I want a bike that will make me say "holy poo poo" every time I pin the throttle. 300cc 2t and a commuter bike.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:14
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C'mon, stop being reasonable. How about a CR500? When it hits the pipe I guarantee you will say "holy poo poo"
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Mar 10, 2017 03:20
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How come black dudes loves busas and zx14s
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Mar 10, 2017 04:13
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Cause they're loving dope
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Mar 10, 2017 04:29
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Carth Dookie posted:Get a Grom for commuting unless you have a lot of highway miles and then get some 600cc crotch rocket for when you want to feel that "holy poo poo" moment. No matter how big/powerful the bike is, you get used to the acceleration and the only way to keep that wow feeling is to ride something slower for contrast regularly. Grom: no, way too small and slow and bad Crotch rocket: Insurance++++++
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Mar 10, 2017 05:39
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Fauxtool posted:How come black dudes loves busas and zx14s Because they got dat phat rear end.
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Mar 10, 2017 08:42
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