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You know? I always wished there was more differentiation between various similar ki blasts and how they work. Like, with no evidence from the actual source material, I always liked to think Masenko was powered by malice or inner anger. I mean, it's a demon attack. It's right in the name. Being stronger the more negative emotion one has would make sense. So it was Gohan's go to move for the longest time because for him it was like firing off an instant fully charged Kamehameha, or maybe even better. It would also explain why Gohan stopped using it. Once he got older and stopped being a little ball of rage, the Kamehameha was just a better move. No real reason for any of that, mind. I would just like it if there were reasons everyone goes with whatever named generic ki blast they favor.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:09
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They are powered by yelling in a squatting position.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:13
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Yelling while squatting powers most of the things on the show, it is my belief goku has learned how to yell while squatting internally which is why he is so strong. Quite possibly, the strongest.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:14
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At some point they might confront Goku about this. He hasn't even kissed his wife even once and has two kids with her. How is that even possible? Vegeta's internal conflict over being a dad/loving husband and a proud Saiyan prince is highly amusing.
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Aug 23, 2017 08:50
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Kild posted:you mean the guy who went off to an asteroid and whined until he got saiyan so he didn't see Trunks' birth either? Vegeta was an rear end in a top hat what is your point
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Aug 23, 2017 09:02
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CharlestheHammer posted:Vegeta was an rear end in a top hat what is your point That one instance of being good doesn't make him better? Like the beginning of super has him taking Trunks out to a theme park because he got mad and punched him. e: Hell he'd probably miss this one too if Bulma wasn't the most powerful being. He's doing it out of fear instead of duty. Kild fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 09:15
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So one bad instance a decade ago is more relevant?
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Aug 23, 2017 09:22
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Kild posted:That one instance of being good doesn't make him better? Like the beginning of super has him taking Trunks out to a theme park because he got mad and punched him. e: This makes the Geets dynamic vs. Goku's staticness.
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Aug 23, 2017 09:25
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goku's a pretty good dad to gohan in the movies that's why they're not canon
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Aug 23, 2017 10:49
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Vegeta let his son nearly die due to his own ego, then seven(?) years later decided to....let his son nearly die due to his own ego. It took Vegeta two instances of being a horrible fuckup for him to change, Goku's only horribly hosed up once. He needs to gently caress up one more time before we can truly compare them.
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Aug 23, 2017 11:51
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Hmm, yes. Ultimately it may boil down to Vegeta being old enough to remember what it was like to have a father. 
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Aug 23, 2017 12:26
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HitTheTargets posted:Hmm, yes. Ultimately it may boil down to Vegeta being old enough to remember what it was like to have a father. Grandpa Gohan is basically Goku's father
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Aug 23, 2017 12:31
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Andrast posted:Grandpa Gohan is basically Goku's father So what you're saying is that Goku's grown past killing his family to just ignoring them.
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Aug 23, 2017 13:33
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So what you're saying is that Goku's grown past killing his family to just ignoring them. That's definitely progress
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Aug 23, 2017 13:39
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You know, I'm sure Vegeta can take pride that his youngest child, right now, born after Goku's first grand child, could beat up Goku's youngest child. At least he would if anyone remembered Goten
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Aug 23, 2017 14:33
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bobjr posted:One episode will have a smash cut to Goten's birthday party with everyone but Goku present. Didn't one of the Buu saga fillers after Kid Buu was destroyed them having a party and Goku didn't come to it until very late because he was too busy watching a dinosaur egg or something?
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Aug 23, 2017 14:33
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Rirse posted:Didn't one of the Buu saga fillers after Kid Buu was destroyed them having a party and Goku didn't come to it until very late because he was too busy watching a dinosaur egg or something? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGvt5sBoyIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxzQcBs3lIk Kild fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 14:36
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Blockhouse posted:the "Not knowing when Gohan was born" thing honestly bums me out because there's this weird thing both Toyotaro and Toei's writers have with making Goku seem like actively Modern Homer Simpson levels of stupid and neglectful It appeared in both the anime and the manga. That's neither Toei nor Toyotaro, that's Toriyama. It should be noted that literally nothing before contradicts Goku being a piece of poo poo dad. He's constantly been neglectful of his family in favour of training, and went as far as throwing his son into a deadly situation he wanted nothing with because "he could take it". And yes, he could, but it ended up being highly traumatic, and I'm glad karma caught up to Goku for that one. If anything, Toei has taken several steps to try to make Goku less of an awful person. Every scene I can remember of Goku not being terrible (such as completely losing his poo poo in absolute tranquil rage at Black for killing alt-timeline Goten and Chi-chi) is anime-only. Considering how different Gohan not joining Team U7 for the first tournament is, I can imagine Toriyama's vision was closer to Toyotaro (Goku getting annoyed at Gohan prioritizing his job) than Toei's (Goku accepting Gohan's choice). Hell, the ending of the series is Goku outright abandoning his family to kidnap a child instead because he really wants a new rival. So he's neglectful even towards his existing rival! Goku just doesn't care about anyone other than Krillin, and even that's only sometimes. Burkion posted:You know, I'm sure Vegeta can take pride that his youngest child, right now, born after Goku's first grand child, could beat up Goku's youngest child. Goku's first grandchild is quite the dangerous opponent though, I'm sure Bra would have quite the fight there! Baby Pan is a very strong quarter-Saiyan.
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Aug 23, 2017 15:27
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we have no idea what "toriyama's vision" is because we have no idea how much work he actually does on Super other than arc outlines and character designs also I can't believe anyone is actually using the Cell thing as a bad parenting thing. Goku knew the only person who could beat Cell was Gohan. What was his alternative there? Just let them all get murdered?
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Aug 23, 2017 15:51
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He gave Cell the senzu bean.
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Aug 23, 2017 15:52
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Raxivace posted:He gave Cell the senzu bean. Which in no way altered the outcome Goku predicted up until the point Cell tried to blow himself up which no one knew was a thing that could happen SON GOKU DID NOTHING WRONG 2017
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Aug 23, 2017 16:00
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gohan going ss2 had nothing to do with goku and everything to do with android 16 sacrificing himself. goku giving cell the senzu bean drew out the fight, got gohan seriously injured, and caused the death of at least 3 people (16, trunks, and goku himself) before cell died it was treated as a huge gently caress up and as goku not understanding his son at all. idk how you can get any other reading of this when piccolo points it out for you
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Aug 23, 2017 16:02
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Blockhouse posted:we have no idea what "toriyama's vision" is because we have no idea how much work he actually does on Super other than arc outlines and character designs The thing is, Goku didn't REALLY try. Like, he gave it his level best as a fighter himself, but if he was super serious about killing Cell no matter what, it wouldn't have been 1 V 1. He would have had everyone fighting Cell like they did with Freeza, while he got a Spirit Bomb put together. Instead it was always just tournament fighting to him because he had misjudged who his son was as a person on a fundamental level. Sure you can make the argument that the Spirit Bomb might not have worked, as it only had a 1 in 3 success rate and that one success had yet to happen, but Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan holding off Cell would have been enough to gently caress with the bug man. And hell, if Goku got mortally wounded while spirit bombing, that would have set Gohan off anyways. Basically it was just Goku's approach that's bad parenting. Remember, Goku VS Freeza was only ever REALLY 1 V 1 after he went SSJ. Up until then, it was Freeza dicking around with him and then Piccolo stepping in to help with some outside assistance from Gohan and Krillin while he Spirit Bombed.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:02
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Manatee Cannon posted:gohan going ss2 had nothing to do with goku and everything to do with android 16 sacrificing himself. goku giving cell the senzu bean drew out the fight, got gohan seriously injured, and caused the death of at least 3 people (16, trunks, and goku himself) before cell died I was not entirely serious about defending the bean part I was hoping the last sentence would have gotten that across also Burkion I highly disagree jumping Cell with everyone would have done any good when the guy just randomly shits out six babies that are stronger than everyone at the tournament seriously though here's a hot take about the cell saga: android 16 being the thing to make gohan snap and go super saiyan 2 was loving dumb Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 16:04
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Yeah the 16 thing fits with what little of a character arc 16 has but not quite with Gohan's. I wouldn't call it dumb insomuch as I could imagine Gohan snapping over seeing anyone getting their head stomped like they were in a Resident Evil game (Particularly in the manga where it's a little more mechanically gory than the anime IIRC), but it's not Toriyama's best bit of plotting. Like wasn't the Cell Games the first time 16 and Gohan even met? Raxivace fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 16:08
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gohan snapped because 16 told him it's ok to get mad. the talk was the important part
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Aug 23, 2017 16:10
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Raxivace posted:Yeah the 16 thing fits with what little of a character arc 16 has but not quite with Gohan's. I wouldn't call dumb insomuch as I could imagine Gohan snapping over seeing anyone getting their head stomped like they were in a Resident Evil game (Particularly in the manga where it's a little more mechanically gory than the anime IIRC), but it's not Toriyama's best bit of plotting. not only is it the first time they meet but I'm almost positive the only time they speak to each other period is 16's little speech as a head
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Aug 23, 2017 16:10
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Blockhouse posted:we have no idea what "toriyama's vision" is because we have no idea how much work he actually does on Super other than arc outlines and character designs If it happens in both the anime and manga, it's clearly Toriyama's idea, since otherwise there's no reason for two creative teams to take a plot outline and reach the same destination. Super Saiyan Blue comes from Toriyama, the power-ups from there (Kaio-ken and Complete) are likely from Toei and Toyotaro respectively. I won't point anything out on the second line since other posts have done it for me, but I will say this: what's up with this thread and ignoring what the series itself says? I thought it was just Rutibex and his Goku-obsession that seemed to rival Toyotaro's at times, but I've seen a lot of posts that just flat-out seem to not watch the series and go with their own ideas for the series as canon instead, Multiverse-style. The God/Blue debate (Blue was always, without exception, said to be stronger than God), saying that Tenshinhan is the strongest human (Krillin is, and this was confirmed when the current arc started), Beerus' relative power (stronger than Goku and Vegeta even now, likely to be surpassed at some point but not now), Goku's parenting skills (terrible, including in this instance where Piccolo outright points out how Goku's hosed up)... I'd rather have that than power level debates like Kanzenshuu, but it's not like Dragon Ball is a particularly complex series. It's very blatant about everything. Also I like the anime adding a nightmare sequence that properly leads to 16's death snapping Gohan, since otherwise it's very random. A really good scene regardless, but weird.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:11
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I will admit that a lot of this is probably me projecting because I hate the actual Cell Games stuff and in fact almost everything after Perfect Cell shows up a lot. It's the only part of the series I actively dislike.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:13
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Blaze Dragon posted:It appeared in both the anime and the manga. That's neither Toei nor Toyotaro, that's Toriyama. I don't remember that line being in the anime
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Aug 23, 2017 16:35
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Kild posted:I don't remember that line being in the anime I didn't mean the line, but Goku being a stupid and neglectful dad and family man. And the anime heavily implies what the manga outright says anyways, since Goku has no idea what a pregnancy is (he thinks Bulma is fat, and that Vegeta is the one that's pregnant) which would be really weird for someone that saw his wife pregnant in the first place.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:41
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I always thought that the reason Gohan lost his poo poo was that he knew 16 couldn't be revived with the Dragon Balls.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx14C3NqZc8 hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng
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Aug 23, 2017 17:27
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https://twitter.com/sonnystrait/status/899512902759186433 I love that Vegeta has always believed in Gohan since the Cell Saga. Gohan just rolled up, went SSJ 2, and Vegeta quietly nodded and said "Yes, this is how it should be."
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Aug 23, 2017 17:27
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What did Vegeta have to say when Gohan turned SS2 again? I know he gained alot of a respect as he was really sad he got so weak during the Dabura fight.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:38
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Burkion posted:https://twitter.com/sonnystrait/status/899512902759186433 the dub is so good
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Aug 23, 2017 17:41
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Is the dub cast just doing BS abridged stuff for fun now? I mean, that's dope if so.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:42
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That was actually in the episode, it had me rolling
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Aug 23, 2017 18:14
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The Super dub has basically gone all in on the comedy, Chris Sabat in particular is enjoying himself (apparently SURE LET'S GO SEE YAMCHA was an ad-lib).
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Aug 23, 2017 18:15
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Chris must be enjoying himself with lines like "Yeah sure, Whatever Babe, is Beerus here?"
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Aug 23, 2017 18:24
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