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I'm glad we all eventually realized Goku is not Superman and is more, I'unno, Booster Gold. Firstborn posted:(don't poo poo on the Hyper Dragonball guys, the game doesn't look that bad) HDB is decent for what it is, a fan project done in MUGEN by like two people or whatever. Of course it's not gonna compete with DBFZ, which has arguably the most competent fighting game developer with the prettiest UE4 implementation around for a 2.5D fighter working on it while they get Dragon Ball Brand Name Funding.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:32
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Big Green dub rules, Speedy dub rules, Mr. Popo being called Poo Poo while the music changes 5 keys in 5 seconds rules https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0AzeAIb7wsDias posted:I'm glad we all eventually realized Goku is not Superman and is more, I'unno, Booster Gold. I haven't watched most of pre-Kai DBZ in like 20 years, but from what I understand Toriyama himself was not happy with the way Goku was portrayed even in the original Japanese version of Z. He was too heroic and not enough of the spirit of pure fighting obsessed manchild. In contrast Super's Goku is clearly Toei trying to capture the original intention of Goku's character - that he is simply MUST FIGHT TO GET STRONGER, pure and a good person but not necessarily a hero. How much of that is them following Toriyama's outline and them doing it on their own I'm not sure, but it's still much more interesting.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:41
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A lot of Toriyama's ideas are garbage and he benefited greatly from listening to the good advice of his editors.
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Aug 25, 2017 21:54
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toriyama is a human being!?
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Aug 25, 2017 21:55
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I hope one of the pride troopers has a big heroic speech so the dub can change it to I AM THE HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE
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Aug 25, 2017 22:15
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Junpei Hyde posted:I hope one of the pride troopers has a big heroic speech so the dub can change it to I AM THE HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE I think the fat one has abandoned his goody two shoes gimmick now.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:16
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I love when Sean Schemmel goes "HNNNNG... NGGYEAAAAAAAAU"
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Aug 25, 2017 22:17
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The most annoying thing was finding out Goku's speech to Vegeta about there being a new Saiyan race (to convince him to fuse) was made up by the dub, because "Even Krillin is dead" doesn't seem like it would do poo poo to convince him.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:18
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Firstborn posted:I love when Sean Schemmel goes "HNNNNG... NGGYEAAAAAAAAU" This but without the remotest shred of irony.
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Aug 25, 2017 22:22
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I was being serious too, he does a good NNNNNGGGGG HHHHNNNYEEEUUUUUUHHH (Just Goku Screaming)(Loud) Holy gently caress he screams e: mod please change my name to Just Goku Screaming Firstborn fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 22:28
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Sean Schemmel literally passed out during his SSJ4 transformation: http://comicbook.com/anime/2017/04/26/dragon-ball-goku-voice-actor-sean-schemmel-pass-out/
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Aug 25, 2017 22:59
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sassassin posted:I think the fat one has abandoned his goody two shoes gimmick now. A whole lot of people haven't picked up on the pride troopers having been bad guys all along, despite you know every single one of them being a massive prick in their fights.
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Aug 25, 2017 23:53
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Skinty McEdger posted:A whole lot of people haven't picked up on the pride troopers having been bad guys all along, despite you know every single one of them being a massive prick in their fights. Everybody is a prick during fights
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Aug 26, 2017 00:00
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Their universe is on the line, so I think its fine for them to fight a little dirty.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:15
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Junpei Hyde posted:Their universe is on the line, so I think its fine for them to fight a little dirty. Even if you fight "clean" and manage to win, you're still culpable in the deaths of untold billions of people.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:21
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Matthew Mercer has been cast as Hit in the dub, which is kind of funny considering he also played Jotaro.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:30
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I hope we don't lose James Marsters as Zamasu.
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Aug 26, 2017 00:35
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Mercer has played as everyone
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Aug 26, 2017 00:53
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Babe, I think Vegeta is cooler when he's being a goof. Mondo cool being said in a threatening tone is a goddamn masterpiece, is what I'm saying.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:16
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Super Fused With Goku Saiyan God 5 Kaiohshin is the most "original character do not steal" design I've seen in Super so far, god drat. This show unironically made those pictures of SSJ13 Broly with white hair. special ki techniques: gods wrath, blades of judgment (its vegitos blades that shoot from a halo around him), black kamehameha abilities: foreverially double immortal god fused with goku, can make ghost smoke angel that shoots lightning hates: sinners fave color: pink theme song: let the bodies hit the floor  note: destroyed all dragon balls and all gods everywhere so not even a wish will stop him Firstborn fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 01:16
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Firstborn posted:Super Fused With Goku Saiyan God 5 Kaiohshin is the most "original character do not steal" design I've seen in Super so far, god drat. This show unironically made those pictures of SSJ13 Broly with white hair. what
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Aug 26, 2017 01:20
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Junpei Hyde posted:what Super Fused With Goku Saiyan God 5 Kaiohshin describes Zamasu pretty well.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:22
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aegof posted:Super Fused With Goku Saiyan God 5 Kaiohshin describes Zamasu pretty well. Oh right, him. Not hairy enough imo
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Aug 26, 2017 01:23
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Matthew Mercer has been cast as Hit in the dub, which is kind of funny considering he also played Jotaro. Excellent
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Aug 26, 2017 01:24
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Junpei Hyde posted:I hope we don't lose James Marsters as Zamasu. We are. Zamasu's voice actor in Xenoverse was outright said to be placeholder. They stated for the dub they currently have someone perfect in mind.
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Aug 26, 2017 01:55
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Zamasu is good actually
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Aug 26, 2017 02:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:We are. Zamasu's voice actor in Xenoverse was outright said to be placeholder. They stated for the dub they currently have someone perfect in mind. Thank god. Xenoverse Zamasu was loving terrible, every single read sounded bored and mumbly.
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Aug 26, 2017 02:24
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I like Hit's Xenoverse VA because of how happy he was to make the donuts.
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Aug 26, 2017 02:36
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Funky Valentine posted:I like Hit's Xenoverse VA because of how happy he was to make the donuts. I like Hit's Xenoverse VA because when you combo him he goes NOOOUUUU
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Aug 26, 2017 04:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHOHS8xYGk gently caress that's good Even The Gods of Destruction Appear Puny
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Aug 26, 2017 06:40
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Popular Culture in today’s world would not be the same if it couldn’t play off of nostalgia. We live in a time where mainstream media panders to the interests that people had years ago, whether for better (i.e. the modern resurgence of Star Wars), or for worse (i.e. the modern resurgence of Star Wars). Of all the media that I consume on a regular basis, nothing panders to old-fan nostalgia in the same way that Dragon Ball Super does. Super feeds off of moments of fanservice so much, one of the most commonly heard criticisms of the show (along with cries of poor animation) is about this. But recently, Super used the pre-existing fan conceptions to achieve something that I never believed could be possible. It created a character explicitly meant to evoke one of my most hated aspects of Dragon Ball- the character of Broly- and made me like her instead. I’d like to examine here how Toei tricked me into hating the new character Kale, before turning that opinion completely on its head. Before examining why Kale works, I should of course examine why I so despise Broly. Some quick backstory: Broly, the Legendary Super Saiyan, was first introduced in the 1993 movie, “Dragon Ball Z: Broly- the Legendary Super Saiyan” . His story is that he was a super powerful baby who survived the extinction of the Saiyan Race , and 30 years later emerges under the control of his father Paragus, who has been using his immense power as a weapon of force. During an altercation with the main cast, Broly breaks free of Paragus’s control, and unleashes his full power as an all-powerful, berserk monster with no thought in his mind other than the destruction of the main cast. Also, he really hates the main character Goku because they were born on the same day, and Goku cried a lot in the maternity ward, so Baby Broly couldn’t sleep. It gets to the point where Broly loses his mind so completely that he can only scream Goku’s name , and the heroes have to pool all of their power in a last-ditch effort to win. Also there are two more Broly movies , and they are both awful. Broly is… not a good or interesting character. Spending the first half of his first film brainwashed, and then the rest of his existence in a state of berserk rage, Broly has no character motivations outside of punching people, and no personality beyond hating Goku. His actions in the movie are literally just punching people really hard and not taking any damage in return, and before he starts screaming “KAKAROTT!!!” over and over again, his dialogue can really be summed up as “I have big muscles! You don’t stand a chance! BRUHAHA IMA SMACK YA FACE!” Part of what makes this so irritating is that there are so many Dragon Ball villains that have developed personalities, and even among the films, whose characters tend to fall flat, there is often more personality or motivation than Broly’s. Broly personifies and exemplifies the things that are, in my opinion, the worst parts of Dragon Ball: Ridiculous escalation of power, exaggerated and excessive violence, and an extremely dry personality that amounts to “I’m so strong, you will never beat me, OH NO YOU BEAT ME!” Broly has existed as a Dragon Ball character since the year that I was born. In that time, he has made numerous appearances in Dragon Ball media and he definitely has his fair share of fans, as well as his fair share of haters. Everybody in the Dragon Ball fandom is aware of Broly and has an opinion on him. It is little wonder then that when Toei Animation created Dragon Ball Super, they got around to creating a character who would stand in for Broly in the new series: Kale, of Universe 6 . Kale is introduced in Dragon Ball Super Episode 89 as a female protegee to another new character, Caulifla. However her first reveal to the public was significantly earlier in a promotional animation clip showing off different aspects of the then-upcoming story arc. We were shown a small, meek-looking character who transforms into an almost direct visual copy of Broly’s LSS form. The two were so visually similar, the only reason that we knew it wasn’t just Broly was the fact that we saw the smaller, female base form. This visual reveal was given months before we even learned her name, and it is very telling that during those months the fanbase collectively referred to Kale as “Female-Broly”. The intentional comparisons between Kale and Broly became even stronger once she was actually introduced in the show proper. Kale’s first transformation into her Berserk form was accompanied by several visual and dialogue cues that were either copied verbatim or very closely paraphrased from the Broly movies. Her actions in this state were similar to Broly’s; she became focused on the destruction of another character, felt no pain from opposing attacks, and her fighting style was primal and without finesse. Later in the series , Kale comes up against Goku, and again begins copying poses and dialogue from the Broly movies. She even reaches a stage where her dialogue is reduced to angrily screaming Goku’s name endlessly as she tries to kill him. Given their tendency to pander towards fanbase nostalgia, given that Kale was previewed to us many months earlier than her first appearance, and given that her initial reveal through to her actions in her Berserk state are all paraphrasings of Broly’s appearances in his movies, it is immediately clear that Toei intended for Kale to evoke the fanbase’s 24 years of familiarity with Broly, regardless of whether that familiarity was positive or negative, in order to preconceive an idea of who Kale is within the minds of any viewer seeing her character come into the series. Of course, a reader with a keen eye will notice that the only things that have been said about Kale thus far have been in relation to her Berserker form, with nothing said in regards to her base form. Admittedly, I initially paid less attention to her in the show than I perhaps should have. Kale’s introduction in Episode 89 pays no homage to her origins in Broly’s design. Before he first on-screen transformation, the closest thing Kale had to Broly’s characterisation was being quieter in the non-transformed state. Kale was shown in her conscious state to be a meek character, who had a friendly relationship with Cabba, and a kind-of sisterhood with Caulifla. Kale was regularly shown to suffer from self-doubt and jealousy whenever another character took Caulifla’s attention away, and if I’d been paying attention I would have recognised that Kale was being characterised very differently from Broly- for example, she was being characterised at all. But this was the trick that Toei played on the Dragon Ball Super fanbase. They reinforced the Broly connection to trick the audience into paying less attention to the differences, which I believe was intended to pay off with Kale’s big character moment in Episode 101. By the start of Dragon Ball Super Episode 101, Kale had exhibited her Berserker form twice- first in Episode 93, and again in the episode immediately prior, Episode 100- and both times the transformation had been triggered by selfish jealousy over her “sis” Caulifla talking to and showing interest in another person. Episode 101 continued to focus on the relationship between the two women, simultaneously making them the targets of other characters in the episode . This friendship between Kale and Caulifla is a key part in making the audience care about Kale. Unlike Kale, Caulifla is a mostly unique character, who gained a lot of interest from the fan base for being the first canon female Super Saiyan, as well as having her own characterisation and interests. Reinforcing Kale’s link to Caulifla then was a very intentional move by the writers to make the audience care about Kale through their residual liking of Caulifla. Over the course of the episode, Caulifla and Kale end up in a position of extreme danger, with Kale essentially incapacitated and Caulifla receiving a solid beatdown from four different people at once. Kale expresses her sorrow at being unable to help Caulifla, but Caulifla surprises her by telling her that she’s the one who has to protect Kale- “after all, you’re my protégé, aren’t you?”- and by now the episode has worked to make the audience feel the tension inherent to the situation; one character we like is in a dangerous position, another character connected to the first one is currently helpless, and from our prior knowledge we know that even if Kale can tap into the power we know she has, it is in her Berserker form where she is just as dangerous to Caulifla anyway. So the episode compromises. Not unlike Episodes 93 and 100, Kale has a brief monologue about how she’s not good enough for Caulifla. However, whereas the previous two transformations were framed in response to not being good enough to have Caulifla to herself, Episode 101’s transformation is in response to not being good enough to save Caulifla from danger. This subtle difference makes the transformation in Episode 101 a far more selfless transformation, and Kale is rewarded with a True Super Saiyan transformation, being able to access the power of her Berserk form but with the added perk of remaining in control of it. In doing so, the Dragon Ball fandom was given something that would have previously been impossible: a Broly stand-in that is not inherently immune to characterisation. Furthermore, this is a Broly stand-in who’s true form is achieved by giving up the selfish desire and turning it to a selfless one. As I first watched the episode unfold and I realised that I was actually caring about what would happen to Kale, I was genuinely shocked at myself. It took some time to realise that the reason I was surprised was because I had already written off Kale as Broly’s distaff counterpart from Universe 6. Kale’s character arc simply would not have had the same impact if it weren’t for the comparisons to Broly. If she had just been a character who initially wanted power for selfish reasons, and then needed it to protect someone, it would have been a fine character arc but ultimately one that wouldn’t resonate as well. By instead forcing the Broly comparisons to cover up the character arc that Kale has until they needed it to payoff, the writers at Toei used my preconceptions of Broly to subvert the expectations that I had, and resultingly Kale has resonated with me significantly more than I would have believed possible. At the time of writing, it is almost 4 weeks since Episode 101 first aired. In that time, we’ve had 3 more episodes, including one that focused heavily on one of my personal favourite characters , and none of them have resonated as powerfully as Episode 101 did as I was watching it and realising Kale’s character arc. Despite the fact that I definitely think that milking nostalgia is lazy writing, I believe that the way Toei used our collective nostalgia of Broly to craft twists in Kale’s narrative was one of the cleverer uses of it. Using my preconceived notions to trick me is a far better creative choice than just reminding me of something that I liked (or didn’t) in the past, and I would love for more properties to take a leaf out of that book.
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Aug 26, 2017 09:32
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1. (Japanese name, “Burn Up!! A Close Fight- A Violent Fight- A Super Fierce Fight”). 2. The event that kickstarted the entire Dragon Ball story 3. Broly screams “Kakarott!” instead of “Goku” because that is his Saiyan birth name 4. 1994’s “Broly- Second Coming” (The Dangerous Duo! Super Warriors Never Rest) and “Bio-Broly” (Super Warrior Defeat!! I’ll Be The Winner) 5. As Broly originated in one of the Original Movies, he is not considered a part of the official Dragon Ball canon and technically does not exist within mainstream Dragon Ball. 6. By this point in the series, the plot has introduced the idea of alternate universes to the world of Dragon Ball. The main Dragon Ball world is Universe 7, and there are 12 Universes in total. 7. Legendary Super Saiyan 8. Dragon Ball Super Episode 100 9. Although whereas Broly would scream his Saiyan name, Kakarott, Kale was screaming his Earthling name, “Son Goku”. 10. This episode occurs in the midst of the “Universal Survival” arc, and the “Pride Troopers” from Universe 11 have decided that Kale is dangerous and needs to be taken out. 11. I say mostly here, because Caulifla does share some mannerisms with Goku and it could be argued that she is intended as a counterpart to him. 12. The episode itself calls the form “ultra-super”, so it would not surprise me if it is later renamed “Ultra Super Saiyan”. 13. Episode 104 had a focus on Hit, the Legendary Hitman of Universe 6
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Aug 26, 2017 09:41
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what the gently caress
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Aug 26, 2017 09:56
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Broly bad, Kale good. But seriously, pretty decent write up imo.
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Aug 26, 2017 10:04
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I didnt read that but I have 0 nostalgia for Broly
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Aug 26, 2017 13:21
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Burkion posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHOHS8xYGk Been waiting for this, didn't think it would happen and the OP was the full version.
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Aug 26, 2017 13:57
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bowmore posted:Popular Culture in today’s world would not be the same if it couldn’t play off of nostalgia. We live in a time where mainstream media panders to the interests that people had years ago, whether for better (i.e. the modern resurgence of Star Wars), or for worse (i.e. the modern resurgence of Star Wars). Of all the media that I consume on a regular basis, nothing panders to old-fan nostalgia in the same way that Dragon Ball Super does. Super feeds off of moments of fanservice so much, one of the most commonly heard criticisms of the show (along with cries of poor animation) is about this. But recently, Super used the pre-existing fan conceptions to achieve something that I never believed could be possible. It created a character explicitly meant to evoke one of my most hated aspects of Dragon Ball- the character of Broly- and made me like her instead. I’d like to examine here how Toei tricked me into hating the new character Kale, before turning that opinion completely on its head. same
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Aug 26, 2017 14:29
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That full version came out of nowhere but goddamn it's good. I'm getting so much satisfaction right now. Also that Broly/Kale analysis was pretty good and I liked it.
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Aug 26, 2017 14:32
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Broly and Kale are both good, though
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Aug 26, 2017 15:40
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If anything, Kale is straight up Gohan, with the power of broly. Only thing holding everything back is her brain telling herself she isn't good enough. If you think about it, Universe 7 is that universe that figured out the secret to golden hair, and they're so psyched that there are other saiyans in Universe 6, they want to teach them everything they know. Universe 6 got a really good shortcut to SSJ, and it's great. Also, concerning this discussion about the dub and all. This might be the first dubbed anime i'll actually enjoy watching. At this point in super, after like, what 30 years? they're all friends keeping in touch, and it's great that they let the voice actors do some ad libbing and leaving it there, it feels a lot more natural. Compare that to some awkward sentence they tried to make work, but it just didn't translate well. I don't get why people are pissed about the voicework for Vegeta in super. No, Vegeta is not a complete sadistic murderer like in Z, because at the very end of Z, he loving figured out there was more to life than trying to one-up his rival. Instead he's a much smarter fighter, that kills only when he has to. (Killing Ginyu ASAP in the Frieza arc in super is probably the smartest idea, if goku let him live, it would've been 2-3 more episodes of body swapping and nobody wants that)
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Aug 26, 2017 16:06
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