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Again, I never said that putting 17 in would mean leaving 18 out. That's a valid concern for female characters in general, but in 18's case it doesn't seem to be a thing that really happens to her. In fact, as of the last real fighting game, Dragon Ball Extreme Butoden, she was a playable character and 17 was an assist character like in this case. So I'm not really sure that card really applies here, in this specific situation.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:38
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| # ? May 24, 2024 07:08 |
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Android 18+17 is a lot more sensible than having them separate. It gives them a unique niche that captured the flavor of both characters while allowing two very-similar characters to exist together. Android 18 being the frontline fighter makes the most sense in that she is the one with by far the most screentime to draw from (even taking Super into account) and fits better from a flavor perspective. (i.e: can team up with Krillin among other things.) Making Android 17 a solo fighter obviously isn't impossible but has less of a niche. You can argue about SSB Goku and Vegeta but there's a pretty large popularity gap to take into account there even considering Super making 17 The Best Character.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:42
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I've just never really seen them as tandem fighters, given that both of their big fights are them fighting alone. The History of Trunks portrayals are more like afterthoughts to their presence in the Android saga or pretty much anything else.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:45
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Accel Dance and everything to do with History of Trunks is pretty popular afaik
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Sep 1, 2017 19:46
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I guess that's where the dissonance comes from because I always think of their fights with Vegeta and Piccolo. Generally I tend to regard the future versions as different characters like the Trunkses, but I guess that's on me and not something the series should hold to. Either way as a fan of 17 I'm still really disappointed.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:47
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TFRazorsaw posted:I've just never really seen them as tandem fighters, given that both of their big fights are them fighting alone. The History of Trunks portrayals are more like afterthoughts to their presence in the Android saga or pretty much anything else. The two of them are defined as tandem fighters even when fighting alone. The only reason they get to fight alone is because the other is willing to allow it to happen.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:50
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well that logic, they should treat 19 and 20 the same way.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:52
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TFRazorsaw posted:well that logic, they should treat 19 and 20 the same way. It isn't like 19 and 20 are in the game and separate. Neither appears in games very often at all in fact except for the same games where you end up getting to play as Apoul or whatever. One of the most significant portrayals of the Androids involves them fighting together and even when they fight apart they cover each other. (It's literally the basis for Android 17's interruption move.) It makes a lot of sense of them to be portrayed that way especially in a fighting game where unique distinctive traits are important. Edit: Hell, Android 19 isn't even in Xenoverse, the game with multiple playable versions of Yamcha. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 19:54
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well, I was presenting a hypothetical - like, if they did this, would it really be as fitting, despite the characters also being treated like a duo where one fights at the other's behest? Either way, I'd still prefer them separate and I don't feel like this does the best possible service to both of them. I am willing to admit though that my vision of them isn't as aligned with official stuff as I originally thought, though.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:58
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TFRazorsaw posted:Again, I never said that putting 17 in would mean leaving 18 out Given a limited budget and dev cycle time, it means leaving someone out. It takes time and effort to design, draw, program, and balance characters in a game. Whatever the number of characters (and indications have been that it’s not a ton), adding 17 means removing someone else.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:00
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Is there anything that indicates the game's budget is small? Dragon Ball is a franchise that seems to have Bandai, Toei, and Viz throwing a lot of money around on it.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:01
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TFRazorsaw posted:Is there anything that indicates the game's budget is small? Dragon Ball is a franchise that seems to have Bandai, Toei, and Viz throwing a lot of money around on it. Nothing, but that's not what I'm referring to. I meant that they aren't throwing unlimited money at the project, saying "I don't care what it costs, give me Android 17". And the amount of dev time is a lot more important. Basically, short of an endless dev cycle, they have a set # of characters they can build in that time, at the quality they're aiming for.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:06
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Okay, I misunderstood you. I'm generally worried about the development though. They said in July they were 20 percent done, but it's apparently going to be released in early 2018? That sounds worrisome to me.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:09
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TFRazorsaw posted:Okay, I misunderstood you. This has been mentioned to you before but video game development is not a loading bar. When they say 20% done that doesn't mean the next 80% is going to take the same amount of time, effort or development. 20% done is just a rough number that means it is early in development, not a die-hard codified measurement of exactly how far along it is. More complex games than this one go from low development % to finished in less time.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:13
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I get that, I'm just nervous because even with all that, that's still a very vague statement, and while I acknowledge ArcSys's skill and dedication to their projects, Bamco is still involved, and they be hit or miss in regards to the effect they have on people they're working with.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:15
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yeah 20% done in game dev means "systems are entirely in place, game works." and then all they have to do is put the characters + art into the system. that is the majority of the work that is put into the game, but they can be worked on simultaneously whereas getting the system itself that they will work on top of running basically halts everything else until it is ready.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:16
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Caros posted:
haha i love memes
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Sep 1, 2017 21:22
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I'm completly fine with 17 being an assist because it allows for a more varied gameplay style for 18. Now by having seventeen be an assist, it allows for cool poo poo like 17 being used as an anti-assist tool. DB fighter z is sort of unique in that character balance and each character playing differently really matters. I know I've seen some DBZ fans complain that they want such and such character and if there's less than 40 characters the games gonna suck, but there's a lot more considerations that go into a legit fighter than something like budokai 3 where they threw everyone in there. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 22:00
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Monaghan posted:I'm completly fine with 17 being an assist because it allows for a more varied gameplay style for 18. Now by having seventeen be an assist, it allows for cool poo poo like 17 being used as an anti-assist tool. DB fighter z is sort of unique in that character balance and each character playing differently really matters. Yah I'm really onboard with DBFZ being a legit fighter rather than a fan service delivery mechanism and if that means only one of the symetrical android twins is present that's fine with me. of course they could also make 17/18 alternate costumes like Tekken and Smash Bros dos but either way I think it's the right call not to have both as individual characters.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:09
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Fighting games based off of franchises (MvC, DBZ games and Smash Bros) tend to look for a few things when they add characters to rosters: 1. Is there a way to make a fun moveset with them that isn't too much of a repeat? (Android 16 fits this bill, Duck Hunt dog and Phoenix Wright too) admittedly Smash Bros doesn't do this well with all the clones they get 2. What are we trying to promote right now? (Goku & Vegeta having their blue forms, Rocket Racoon coming to MvC3 as Marvel gets ready to hype GotG) 3. Who's really popular right now? Namco Bandai will probably request some specific characters too if they wanna promote Super characters.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:22
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I bet we see Beerus and Hit as unlockables/dlc
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Sep 1, 2017 22:26
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Beerus is gonna be the arcade mode boss, I can feel it.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:41
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seiferguy posted:1. Is there a way to make a fun moveset with them that isn't too much of a repeat? (Android 16 fits this bill, Duck Hunt dog and Phoenix Wright too) admittedly Smash Bros doesn't do this well with all the clones they get Clones are literally "we decided to make a couple clones with the dev time we had left" so they don't actually "take up" any character slots
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Sep 1, 2017 22:43
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beerus is totally going to be in, hit may or may not be I feel these in my bones btw the most recent reference in the game is Buu's victory pose (it's from the Universe 7 vs Universe 8 exhibition) so anything from before then is fair game
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Sep 1, 2017 22:56
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Beerus and Whis are in almost every ep of Super and were essentially the ambassadors for the series' revitalization at all. Beerus at the very least is definitely getting it.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:52
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Beerus with Whis doing the time rewind as one of his supers makes a lot of sense
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Sep 2, 2017 00:15
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Blockhouse posted:beerus is totally going to be in, hit may or may not be Universe 9. Universe 8 is one of the four best that aren't part of the Tournament of Power. And yeah, there's no way Beerus won't be playable, he's far too important in the modern age of Dragon Ball to skip a game. Whis will likely not be playable, but he might appear in Beerus' moveset. My biggest question is what Yamcha will do. I thought the answer was "nothing" but Toru Furuya recorded lines for FighterZ, so Yamcha is in...somehow.
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Sep 2, 2017 03:10
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A lot of fighting games have a joke fighter
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Sep 2, 2017 03:29
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Looking forward to the Monaka / Mr. Satan tag team
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Sep 2, 2017 03:30
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Arale or riot
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Sep 2, 2017 03:36
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Yamcha is for sure in, one way or another. The Z-Fighters are Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Yamcha and Tien, and I don't see them dropping the most memeable character of those six, especially when he has some cool moveset hooks like the Spirit Ball or the Wolf Fang Fist. I also think Beerus is definitely in after they revealed SSB characters, you can't put those in without having Beerus be a part of that whole mess. Everything else is up for grabs, but I'd be shocked if one of these two didn't make it in.
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Sep 2, 2017 03:45
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What's the over under on gotenks
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Sep 2, 2017 03:49
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Raserys posted:What's the over under on gotenks 3
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Sep 2, 2017 03:51
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i feel like gotenks is very likely to be included, since he's got like a billion stupid special moves and they all own. plus goten and kid trunks are too important to not include at all, but they don't really stand out much on their own, especially considering young gohan and future trunks are both already in.
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Sep 2, 2017 03:57
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I'll take the over, so SSJ4 gotenks
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Sep 2, 2017 03:57
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Blaze Dragon posted:Universe 9. Universe 8 is one of the four best that aren't part of the Tournament of Power. Kashuno posted:A lot of fighting games have a joke fighter AFAIK Yamcha is not actually a joke character in Dragonball video games. Hercule is just too good of a fit for that role.
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Sep 2, 2017 03:59
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Yamcha is underpowered but he's got the (arguably) only iconic melee technique in the series
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Sep 2, 2017 04:12
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If I had to bet on the next five reveals, no specific order, it would go something like Adult Gohan, Gotenks, Beerus, Yamcha and Kid Buu, with Kid Buu being the one I'm not so sure of.
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Sep 2, 2017 04:15
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If any others from Super, Hit and Merged Zamasu seem like the only ones I'd expect. Beyond that, Gotenks for sure, hopefully Satan, Saiyaman, and Ginyu.
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Sep 2, 2017 04:20
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Saiyaman, Hercule, Beerus, Nappa, Goten + Trunks
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Sep 2, 2017 04:27
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