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it's the opposite way around. cell can do everything everyone else can do so actually his bag of tricks is way deeper than freeza's. if he trained for a month like freeza did, he could get the same kind of super form just like he got a ss2 style transformation from his saiyan zenkai boost there's not as much personal animosity between him and the heroes as there is with freeza tho. xenoverse cell kinda colored my opinion on him tbh and I'd love to see that rendition of him come back, but actual cell doesn't add much
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Sep 28, 2017 05:22
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Imperfect Cell is great. He's this big creepy gently caress off monster that's not just super powerful, but also tricky and clever. He eats people in grotesque ways and is a driven motherfucker. His design is also ace. Semi Perfect Cell wasn't around long enough to be much of anything. Perfect Cell is just boring.
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Sep 28, 2017 05:34
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Cell was somehow charismatic enough to be considered a replacement for rear end in a top hat frieza, so
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Sep 28, 2017 05:38
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Semi Perfect Cell was around long enough to be the worst designed villain in Dragonball
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Sep 28, 2017 05:39
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Blockhouse posted:Semi Perfect Cell was around long enough to be the worst designed villain in Dragonball Dragonball GT exists.
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Sep 28, 2017 05:41
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ImpAtom posted:Dragonball GT exists. I disagree
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Sep 28, 2017 05:42
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Cell owns and it's sad that he basically loses all his interesting motivation after becoming Perfect He should've stayed in form 1
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Sep 28, 2017 05:43
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You think Frieza will try the whole "blow up the planet/arena when I start losing" strategy again? Would that get him dq'd?
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Sep 28, 2017 05:43
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Uh, guys, they already had a character in the tournament that was a reference to Cell. He showed up, got defeated by Master Roshi, and forgotten.
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Sep 28, 2017 05:43
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Blockhouse posted:Semi Perfect Cell was long enough to be the worst designed villain in Dragonball That whole thing was a serpent trail of creative decision versus publisher, and I don't know If i can speak for others, but the entire debacle turning into cell bringing the avatar of pain to young gohan is good enough for me. When i was a kid, I was wishing for gohan to take some motherfucking action, but no, he was a bitch. After all those years of disappointment, I felt pretty vindicated when he finally, FINALLY, let cell know just how hosed he was now that Gohan was the one to surpass the SS level. I was so glad that it wasn't that loving retarded baby Goku's turn to surpass anybody this time
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Sep 28, 2017 05:43
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ImpAtom posted:Dragonball GT exists. You're right, I apologize. He's the worst Toriyama designed villain. Fargin Icehole posted:That whole thing was a serpent trail of creative decision versus publisher So here's the thing: none of the people who told Toriyama to change what happened with the Androids and Cell were his actual, current editors. They were ex-editors who had retired or no longer worked on his book calling him up personally and telling him to change poo poo.
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Sep 28, 2017 05:48
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Rhonne posted:You think Frieza will try the whole "blow up the planet/arena when I start losing" strategy again? Would that get him dq'd? if he destroyed the ring, wouldn't everyone automatically lose I guess that could be counted as a tie  "thanks for saving every universe but 9 and 10 freeza! you're a true hero, unlike that scum goku" - toppo
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Sep 28, 2017 05:52
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Blockhouse posted:Semi Perfect Cell was around long enough to be the worst designed villain in Dragonball Funny thing with that is that I'm pretty sure Semi Cell only existed for like 15 minutes in-story.
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Sep 28, 2017 05:53
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Blockhouse posted:
Toriyama works best when he has people reigning him.He's the guy who forgets poo poo about his own series all the time. I think having a more organized guy to give him some direction is a good thing. His editors were right about the androids not making the best villains.
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Sep 28, 2017 06:26
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Toriyama's editor hated semi-perfect Cell so much that he requested that he be in as little content as possible. Edit: Toriyama is basically anime George Lucas.
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Sep 28, 2017 06:34
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I hope Kubo becomes his editor and we get the greatest looking characters ever but it takes 5 more years to finish this tournament
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Sep 28, 2017 06:34
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One thing I do like about Cell is that he's sort of a combination of every villain Goku has faced before, except for Pilaf and his gang. He has the dna of Freeza, Vegeta, and Piccolo (and Goku himself), and has all their techniques, and he was created by a scientist of the Red Ribbon Army. So Red Ribbon Army + Piccolo + the Saiyans + Freeza, all combined into one final being. Problem is he's kind of boring. But the basic idea was okay.
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Sep 28, 2017 06:35
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RealFoxy posted:I hope Kubo becomes his editor and we get the greatest looking characters ever but it takes 5 more years to finish this tournament Kubo remix Dragonball. It will start in 2020 and end in 2057 period at the same time, Oda will make his own play on Dragonball. It will end after the universe has ended and will be completed about around the next Universe begins.
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Sep 28, 2017 06:37
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Sep 28, 2017 06:45
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Cell is Serpentor, Freeza is Cobra Commander.
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Sep 28, 2017 07:07
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Darko posted:Cell is Serpentor, Freeza is Cobra Commander. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUw8cN6R8o0
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Sep 28, 2017 07:52
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Japan likes grindy RPGs and Gacha games their taste can't be trusted.
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Sep 28, 2017 11:55
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Blue Star posted:He has the dna of Freeza. No, he doesn't. Gero having zero knowledge about the Namek stuff was sort of a plot point .
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Sep 28, 2017 13:19
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Blue Star posted:One thing I do like about Cell is that he's sort of a combination of every villain Goku has faced before, except for Pilaf and his gang. He has the dna of Freeza, Vegeta, and Piccolo (and Goku himself), and has all their techniques, and he was created by a scientist of the Red Ribbon Army. So Red Ribbon Army + Piccolo + the Saiyans + Freeza, all combined into one final being. Problem is he's kind of boring. But the basic idea was okay. It was actually really dumb and boring because Cell was explicitly missing when everyone got a massive powerboost on namek. Cell was lame from day 1, but at least it ended pretty radically (only to be completely thrown out by the Buu arc)
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Sep 28, 2017 13:26
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IcePhoenix posted:No, he doesn't. Gero having zero knowledge about the Namek stuff was sort of a plot point . The show at least shows him collecting DNA from Trunks/Freeza during the few minutes he's there before he is cut up.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:28
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Gonna agree with the Japanese here. The Cell saga is my least favorite and while base Cell is pretty cool, the more perfect he becomes the more boring he is. His abilities were lame and even with surprising charisma and incredible voice acting, he was still just yet another smug villain. I honestly liked the original android's gimmick the best even though the fat mime and old guy designs weren't as intimidating.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:29
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My router's wifi network is called Mr. Perfect Cell 
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Sep 28, 2017 13:45
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You know, thinking on it a little more, the reason Japan doesn't really care about Cell compared to the West might be based on how the series was introduced to each region. In Japan, you go through the entire series, manga or anime, as one serial adventure. Yeah, you get filler and stuff, but it's basically one big thing, from Bulma finding Goku in the forest and shooting him, to Goku flying off to train Uub. In America, at least, you got the Pilaf arc of DB, which was aired in syndication for like one season, before they jumped directly into Z. From there, you got up to Recoome, and then it looped back to Raditz. When Cartoon Network picked it up, they started directly from Z, without airing DB. They also kept looping it until it was so popular more episodes were funded. The difference here is very much in how the two regions told the story. In Japan, the entire thing is clearly the story of Goku. He's the primary character through Dragonball, it's all about his journey. Once you get to Z, yeah, he gets killed real fast and stuff, but the journey is still about everyone getting ready for the big fight where Goku comes back. From there, of course, it moves to Namek where Goku, again, comes back midway through. We move to Androids and Cell, where Goku may be out of the spotlight for a while, but he's still the driving force behind the plot. The Androids all want him dead, Cell wants him as an opponent, all that stuff. The Buu Saga is, again, Goku coming back for a bit, leaving for a bit, but then saving the day again. The entire series is Goku focused, starting with Dragonball being all about his journey and only expanding later to move the focus off him at points. In America, since the vast majority of people started with Z, something different happened. We didn't have Dragonball to establish that Goku was the super focus of the story. Even just having the Pilaf Saga, if you happened to see it, was closer to an ensemble cast. Going into Z, if this is your first introduction to Goku, he is nearly immediately killed off after his son displays amazing power. You know Goku is the best fighter and stuff, but your introduction is him being surpassed by his young son, who is then being told he could be the greatest warrior. The series moves on to everyone preparing for the Saiyans, including a heavy focus on Gohan becoming a fighter under Piccolo's teaching. Goku goes through Snake Way and trains with King Kai and saves the day with Nappa, yes, but then the ensemble cast manages to take down Vegeta, and Goku is in a medical bed again. So Gohan, Krillin, and Bulma go to Namek, and it becomes very much a story about them. Plus, halfway through the Ginyu Force, it breaks and loops for years, establishing the story of Z as more Gohan focused than Goku focused in the minds of viewers. An important effect of that is when Goku and Gohan both have their biggest moments. All through Dragonball and into Z, there's talk about how Goku is this prodigy. He has losses, yeah, but Dragonball establishes that Goku always manages to overcome, and that it's his journey the viewer is following. His biggest moment, then, is when he literally embodies a legend from his home planet, and becomes a Super Saiyan, defeating Frieza. If you cut out DB, you cut out a lot of the establishment of it being Goku's story. Suddenly it makes a ton more sense that, despite Goku swooping in to be the best warrior, it's Gohan's story now. Gohan's story of becoming like his father, and everyone's talk of him having all the potential, and him needing to fight to protect those he cares about and the such. We follow his journey from a little whiny brat to a budding fighter, and then the Namek loops establish even further that he's on a journey. To the western viewer, there's a lot more to Gohan's journey than Goku's, because most of Goku's journey already happened. Gohan is the kid that viewers want to be, the one who has this hidden potential that could be tapped into. His biggest moment is it all culminating in going Super Saiyan 2, surpassing his father and everyone else, and finally letting loose the potential that had been hinted at for years. Having said all that, their greatest moments are against different villains. Goku's is against Frieza, Gohan's is against Cell. Considering how differently the airings went, and botches along the way (like Frieza's original set of voice actors and scripting), Japan's fans would focus on Goku, and the west would focus on Gohan. Along with that, their respective villains would get a massive bump due to pure association. Whomever they were fighting when their arcs finally climaxed would be their greatest antagonist, and that would be reflected popularity-wise. So, looking at Dragonball/Z as Goku's story, as Japan would have done, gives you Frieza as the impetus for Goku's legend. The west, having gotten a version of the story that shifted the focus more towards Gohan, went for Cell. Thus, the split. Obviously this isn't hard and fast, and there's a million other reasons too like old fashioned differences in tastes, but regardless it does make sense that both regions would feel the series focus differently.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:48
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Kurui Reiten posted:You know, thinking on it a little more, the reason Japan doesn't really care about Cell compared to the West might be based on how the series was introduced to each region. That's a really smart analysis. It explains why so many people love teen Gohan and his crowning moment of badassery when he finishes off Cell for good. In my opinion though, what you described is more responsible for Gohan's popularity in the west than Cell's lack thereof in Japan. It could very well be both though, as well as other more subtle cultural reasons.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:56
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socialsecurity posted:The show at least shows him collecting DNA from Trunks/Freeza during the few minutes he's there before he is cut up. Huh, I don't remember that bit. e: I did a search and I guess it's not Gero doing it but his drones being run by a computer that he basically ignores during the whole process, which is why he doesn't know about anything after Goku and Vegeta's fight on Earth. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 13:58
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Yeah that long writeup really makes me realize why Gohan killing Cell is a capstone for his arc (until ToP) and Goku becomes the focus again.
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Sep 28, 2017 14:30
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seiferguy posted:Toriyama's editor hated semi-perfect Cell so much that he requested that he be in as little content as possible. Toriyama sounds like an extremely humble dude that would probably admit gladly that he made DBZ a worldwide beloved cartoon/comic basically by accident though.
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Sep 28, 2017 14:58
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Last Celebration posted:Toriyama sounds like an extremely humble dude that would probably admit gladly that he made DBZ a worldwide beloved cartoon/comic basically by accident though. Toriyama regularly refers to himself as a guy who writes poop jokes for a living Also for what it's worth, Gohan isn't inherently unpopular in Japan. He's the #1 character during the Cell Saga popularity poll, and then falls off the (listed) top five entirely during the Buu Saga, but is #4 on the final overall poll from the early 2000's. I think that says the issue people had with him really was just how he is post-Cell. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 15:09
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One of my favorite things about Dragon ball was that Goku doesn't always win. It made the fights a bit more interesting, even if it seemed to go on an every other time basis. The one time that wasn't the case (against Tambourine, after losing to tien) it was very upsetting and made me more invested in seeing how they'd pull through.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:00
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I miss all the blood and injuries. People would get hosed up in DBZ, but the violence in Super doesn't feel nearly as gritty. When Frieza killed that Yardrat dude it just looked like somebody took a magic marker to his face
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Sep 28, 2017 21:35
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IcePhoenix posted:No, he doesn't. Gero having zero knowledge about the Namek stuff was sort of a plot point . It's pretty clearly stated that Cell is composed of cells derived from Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza, and I think Freeza's dad? Freeza and his dad came to earth and that's when the tiny insect robot got some of their cells. Blue Star fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 21:59
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Blue Star posted:Uh, yeah he does, brah. It's pretty clearly stated that Cell is composed of cells derived from Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza, and I think Freeza's dad? Freeza and his dad came to earth and that's when the tiny insect robot got some of their cells.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:04
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So, there's some confusion here. Let me clear it up because I have a memory for inane plot points. Cell, the one we know and mostly tolerate or love or maybe don't have any feelings for at all, has all of the strongest warriors of Earth AND Freeza's DNA. Because he's from Trunk's time line, where Freeza was on Earth way longer and got into a punch up with Goku, who didn't immediately murder his rear end. One fun possibility is that Goku didn't have instant transmission in that time line either, though that's super up for speculation. The Cell from the main time line would not have Freeza's DNA because Gero didn't know poo poo about Freeza or SSJ, unlike Future Gero. We know there are more differences than just that because Future Gero never mind himself into an Android, and never finished Android 19. Android 17 and 18 killed him when he was still a human and didn't possess the bombs in their chest to act as a deterrent. When in doubt, blame Trunks
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Sep 28, 2017 22:05
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Burkion posted:Android 17 and 18 killed him when he was still a human The flashback Cell has of them killing Dr. Gero shows him with the dome-brain still.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:07
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CharlestonJew posted:I miss all the blood and injuries. People would get hosed up in DBZ, but the violence in Super doesn't feel nearly as gritty. When Frieza killed that Yardrat dude it just looked like somebody took a magic marker to his face Same.  But get used to it because its Japanese timeslot plus changing tv attitudes vs. when Z/OG Dragonball aired in the 80s mean the standards are stricter. What's funny is that Super is undergoing the exact opposite in the west. Between its later timeslot and America's own changing tv attitudes not only is there zero censoring of violence, they're even adding curses like 'dumbass'. That's a far cry from the "oh fiddle-dee-dee" bullshit in the 90s and even what Kai's TV version could get away with. It's all about the timeslot. So now instead of Japan getting the gritty hardcore bloody badassery and mild swearing, and us getting it all cut out and censored, now we get a relatively tame product and spice it up with our own swearing. That's loving hilarious. The only downside is people who miss the grittier feel can't buy uncut DVDs anymore, because in the final product there's nothing to cut.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:16
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