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amigolupus posted:Vegeta I can get, but does Goku actually intend to train Caulifla/Kale some more? Watching the episodes, it felt more like he was playing with the two of them to let off some steam from his loss to Jiren. I'm just not sure if showing them the awful trap that is SSJ3 or telling them he wants to fight them again counts as wanting to train Caulifla/Kale. I don't really see what else he could possibly mean by giving them some advice on the fight and then saying that he wants to fight again after the tournament. Also I get that "SSJ3 sucks and is useless" is a popular joke, but that's definitely not how it's being treated here.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:22
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Like I'm not loving kidding, the guy draws Scooby Doo porn.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:24
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Pollyanna posted:Like I'm not loving kidding, the guy draws Scooby Doo porn. He's definitely vocal about it. I think he ended the video by basically saying he "draws furry porn and there's nothing that you can do about it." Not saying I approve, but I think he must have gotten this criticism before and decided to say he doesn't give a poo poo.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:29
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Pollyanna posted:Like I'm not loving kidding, the guy draws Scooby Doo porn. He draws Shaggy in the full blanco?
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Nov 11, 2017 17:29
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Pollyanna posted:Like I'm not loving kidding, the guy draws Scooby Doo porn. It's the internet Everyone draws Scooby Doo porn. I am so loving jaded to internet cartoon porn at this point in my life that he'd have to draw some pretty heinous poo poo for me to care one way or the other about anything involving him. Note, I massively disagree with him on the U6 Sayians and I think Cauli and Kale are fantastic. Like, if Cauli was some how as powerful as Goku and friends, that'd be one thing. That wouldn't make any sense. She's not. She's maybe as strong as Piccolo. Maybe. He'd likely still kick her rear end. Kale's ENTIRE THING is Maximum Power and that's beautiful. She's the redemption of Broly, a stupid fucker I've always wanted to like but never could. Kale being stupid logic breaking strong as poo poo is her entire charm. I hope she reaches even greater heights. Their place in Dragon Ball makes sense and is great.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:29
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Pollyanna posted:Like I'm not loving kidding, the guy draws Scooby Doo porn. Oh... I thought that was just a joke 
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Nov 11, 2017 17:32
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Burkion posted:Their place in Dragon Ball makes sense and is great. But they're neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. Yeah, Plague draws some weird furry poo poo. Nothing hardcore tho, it's ecchi-esque bullshit 90% of the time.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:37
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Dias posted:But they're neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. Don't all artist draw porn? Like, we all get horny from time to time so don't all artist end up drawing porn at some point?
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Nov 11, 2017 17:40
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Like people realize that SSJ2 is poo poo tier at this stage of Dragon Ball Super, right? Gohan surpassed SSJ3 back in DBZ for the love of Christ. Even if you take a snapshot of just the goddamn Buu saga, it'd be a stretch to put Cauli in the top 5 most powerful. In fact I don't think you could even if you wanted! The two fusions, Gohan, Goku and all the Buus kick her down to Vegeta's turf and Majin Vegeta's whole bag was that he couldn't run out of energy so even he'd have a natural edge on her in terms of raw power. Like here's how little a threat Cauli should seem to idiot man children who get pissed off at the new characters being boosted to old milestones SHE WANTS SSJ3. She thinks SSJ3 is some pinnacle of power that has to be achieved, instead of ignored and bypassed like every other sane fighter in the entire series. Cauli is great and I love her attitude but she fits in fine with the universe and fits in great with the cast. Tired Busted Near Dead Goku could keep up with her in base form when she was SSJ. She HAD to go SSJ2 just to close that gap. That's why any complaints about the power they've obtained are utter nonsense that isn't being thought out in ANY goddamn fashion. SSJ2 was a big deal for ONE character in ONE moment and you can make an argument that SSJ2 wasn't even the point of what Gohan did. What Gohan did was unlock his true potential finally. You know until he quietly smothered it underneath the weight of his book learning. And if you complain about Kale you're objectively wrong because she is Best Broly.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:47
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Power levels are and always have been bullshit and Dragon Ball - like MOST Shounen anime IMO - becomes much more fun once you just role with everyone being Exactly As Strong As The Story Demands and just focus on whether the choreography and/or character work are entertaining.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:49
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Zoinks Scoob, like this monster's fuckin me in the rear end
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Nov 11, 2017 17:59
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I bet if you just worked hard enough you could make SSJ3 an effective transformation because the show revolves around the idea that you can make anything better if you just try with enough determination.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:01
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reignofevil posted:I bet if you just worked hard enough you could make SSJ3 an effective transformation because the show revolves around the idea that you can make anything better if you just try with enough determination. Except Tien
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Nov 11, 2017 18:03
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edit: nevermind
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Nov 11, 2017 18:03
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Burkion posted:stuff I think the big thing that's been established in Super is that improving your base form is the true path to getting stronger, not transformations. Like base Cabba in the U6 tournament was able to put up a decent fight against Vegeta in base form, and at that point Vegeta had the power of a god, Super Saiyan is just a bonus on top of that. And now its been established Caulifla is a good deal stronger than that. Caulifla as she is now would absolutely annihilate the entire Buu Saga cast, it's really just a question of how strong she is compared to the main cast now.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:05
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Super Saiyan 3 absolutely can be an effective transformation. We've actually seen the path towards that with things like Goku swapping to Super Saiyan Blue for a half second or Kale Brollying out during a beam struggle. If you need to conserve energy you flip the power switch for a half second when necessary. Hell, we even see that from Goku where he goes SSJ3 for a second just to counter Kale and Caulfila's move. It's probably never going to be an effective always-on move because at that point you might as well aim for God (which we know thanks to Vegeta you can hit without a ritual somehow) or SSJ4 (if GT is canon)
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Nov 11, 2017 18:09
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CharlestonJew posted:I think the big thing that's been established in Super is that improving your base form is the true path to getting stronger, not transformations. Like base Cabba in the U6 tournament was able to put up a decent fight against Vegeta in base form, and at that point Vegeta had the power of a god, Super Saiyan is just a bonus on top of that. And now its been established Caulifla is a good deal stronger than that. Caulifla as she is now would absolutely annihilate the entire Buu Saga cast, it's really just a question of how strong she is compared to the main cast now. The only issue with that is the idea that Goku's base form got monstrously stronger after obtaining God Ki seems to only be a movie thing. It was a thing in BoG at the very end and it was a thing in RoF, but after that they go back to acting like their base forms and SSJ states are about as strong as they used to be in DBZ. It's a weird inconsistency going from the movie stuff to the original Super stuff but they've been consistent about it since moving into Super. Like a soft retcon they don't acknowledge. It's the most confused in the U6 tournament but it really rears its head with Trunks, who is quite clearly about as powerful as a SSJ2 should have been back in DBZ and obviously didn't have any God Ki training because Shin is a moron. The tournament now showcases it as well. Goku can't do poo poo to Jiren in base to SSJ2 and only begins to crack the surface in his God forms. I think the idea of the movies was that Goku was always as powerful as when he was SSJ God and that SSJBlue was just finding a way to truly go SSJ with God Ki. That is clearly not what they wanted with the series. The other consistent thing is that SSJ3 is just a dumb transformation that Goku was an idiot to invent.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:12
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So the main piece of evidence I'm basing my stuff on is Frieza. In RoF when he gets back from training he manhandled Gohan with no effort whatsoever, and Goku is able to match him in base form at that point, so his base form has gotten much much stronger. I never watched the RoF arc in super so idk if things worked the same way there
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Nov 11, 2017 18:30
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For real I feel like people have seen the fan interpretation that SSJ3 is garbage and useless so much that they started to assume it was fact
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Nov 11, 2017 18:33
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I mean, they stated that post-Buu Goku in base form would still have lost to Namek!Freeza. Then RoF happened.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:34
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People overthink the SSJ3 thing, the only reason Goku "gave up" on it is because I imagine it's a pain having to draw a very different model with all that stupid hair when Goku is doing his progressive transformations thing every other episode.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:39
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The main issue is Resurrection "F" creating the Saiyan Beyond God stage, that is, Goku and Vegeta having the power of Super Saiyan God in their base form and then going Blue by merely turning Super Saiyan. This is completely ignored afterwards, with both of them having the blond forms again and being able to reuse God despite how their base state should be as strong as it. Just ignore Resurrection "F" in that and it makes some more sense, as much as Power Levels can make sense.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:41
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I hate SSJ3 on a purely visual level. The brow thing looks dumb and the longer hair looks dumb as well, it also probably helped create the stereotype of DB being the show where everyone has increasingly ridiculously long hair. One of the reasons it doesn't show up much more was probably because they realized that if other characters got it too then the visual distinctiveness of each of the Saiyans would almost vanish. Say what you will about blue, but it's pleasingly understated, and don't get me started on SSJ4, ugh.
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Nov 11, 2017 18:46
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So Toriyama may have committed tax evasion...
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Nov 11, 2017 19:02
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It's not like he actively tried to evade taxes, it's just that Toriyama forgot.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:06
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Dias posted:It's not like he actively tried to evade taxes, it's just that Toriyama forgot.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:07
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Saagonsa posted:For real I feel like people have seen the fan interpretation that SSJ3 is garbage and useless so much that they started to assume it was fact Depends how literally you mean the word "useless." People seem to categorize it in the same sort of space as USSJ, which was ACTUALLY not worth using because of how much that tanked your speed. It's more akin to ASSJ, which was a universal boost, but at the cost of increased ki and stamina drain. SSJ3 has the same drawback but multiplied several times. Goku can't do it for very long unless he's already dead, and while Gotenks is physically unaffected by the drain, presumably because of fusion magic, it completely fucks the time limit. So no, SSJ3 is not useless. It's impractical and unwieldy, but if the user is confident they can end a fight quickly, it's worth using. However, since the only users are, obviously, Saiyans, that doesn't happen because they're all dumb showboating idiots who always depower before they can win because they're too preoccupied with having fun. Blue seems to have a similar problem but it seems to be more efficient with its gas mileage than 3.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:09
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all this time Dragon Ball was actually funded by blood money 
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Nov 11, 2017 19:10
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Trunks is the only Saiyan who has ever lived who should be allowed to use SSj3 and who would make intelligent right use of it Find enemy, MAX OUT, HIT THEM HARDER MAKE THEM DIE RIGHT loving NOW DO IT NOW NOW NOW *five minute PTSD-fueled contiunal scream* done, home for dinner
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Nov 11, 2017 19:20
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Black August posted:Trunks is the only Saiyan who has ever lived who should be allowed to use SSj3 and who would make intelligent right use of it I'm surprised you can say that of the guy who thought massively bulking up and trading all speed for power was a good idea.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:24
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Blaze Dragon posted:I'm surprised you can say that of the guy who thought massively bulking up and trading all speed for power was a good idea. And has since learned from his halycon peace days of the Cell Murder Saga, to train mad enough to make his SSj2 as strong as Goku's SSj3 (a concept I really like), iced Dabura and Babadi without loving around, and sure as gently caress TRIED to ice Black and Zamasu before being denied by his too low Depression Quota. He even used Ultra to trick Vegeta into thinking he was still a dumb kid and get one in on him.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:29
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I saw a take on it saying that it's more likely that he had someone else handle this since he's notoriously lazy and they committed tax evasion for him, basically.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:42
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I don't think Kefla will have any energy issues with super saiyan 3 with Kale being part of the mix.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:56
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I feel controversy is coming up everywhere.
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Nov 11, 2017 20:04
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Blaze Dragon posted:I'm surprised you can say that of the guy who thought massively bulking up and trading all speed for power was a good idea. Considering Super Saiyan Rage has him bulk up like that for a second, I don't think it was entirely useless. He just figured out how to make it useful.
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Nov 11, 2017 20:12
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I think that’s the idea Infinite energy output + fusion + 3 = holy gently caress SSj3 is terrifying in ways Gotenks could never manage
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Nov 11, 2017 20:14
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Gotenks managed several ghosts that looked like him and shot kamehamehas that was pretty spooky imo.
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Nov 11, 2017 20:37
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Burkion posted:Majin Vegeta's whole bag was that he couldn't run out of energy so even he'd have a natural edge on her in terms of raw power. hey guys it's me, captain pedantic, and I'm here to tell you that majin vegeta didn't have infinite power; babidi just gave him a power up to super saiyan 2. the power up was why he let himself get taken over because he knew he couldn't take goku on without it. he still needed a senzu bean to get his strength back before he fought buu
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Nov 11, 2017 21:37
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Manatee Cannon posted:hey guys it's me, captain pedantic, and I'm here to tell you that majin vegeta didn't have infinite power; babidi just gave him a power up to super saiyan 2. the power up was why he let himself get taken over because he knew he couldn't take goku on without it. he still needed a senzu bean to get his strength back before he fought buu I read somewhere that he was supposed to of had infinite energy or whatever but maybe not. Regardless Vegeta would have an edge over her with just skill and experience at that point.
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Nov 11, 2017 21:47
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i don't even think it gave him a power boost, or at least not much of one. and given how little control babidi had over vegeta after marking him, i think all it really did was give him the excuse to be evil that he was looking for
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Nov 11, 2017 22:01
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