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It seems baffling to me that some parties wouldn't use short rests. My two player party has completed about 25 scenarios and I think we've used a grand total of two long rests. Long rests seem incredibly situational. Missing a turn is a huge drawback if there are enemies around, so unless clearing a room coincides perfectly with emptying your hand, it doesn't seem worth it to long rest. We've found some powerful passive and consumed items, so refreshing items doesn't do much for us, and a measly two healing isn't worth skipping an entire turn for, especially at our level. In a two player party, one person long resting takes half the party out of the fight for a turn, so maybe it's better in larger parties.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:44
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Ojetor posted:Short resting is my default unless I have some items I really want to refresh. Also rarely when there's a lull in the action where I can long rest a turn while enemies come closer/someone else opens a door/a new enemy spawns because of scenario conditions, etc. Beyond the item refresh I feel there's very little advantage to long rests. Heal 2 is nice but hardly worth giving up an entire turn with active monsters. Yeah. Usually I look at the cards. Can't decide on what to get rid of so just short rest and let fate decide. Sometimes we are all next to a closed door and everyone long rests for a round. That's about it
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Dec 19, 2017 22:45
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Personally, I long rest a bunch. Unless it's really important that you do something next turn, you can often long rest while your teammates (who might have a different rest cadence) clean up the stragglers. I guess you could short rest and then spend that turn grabbing some loot if you were confident you wouldn't need that turn to finish the scenario, but "hey can you kill this guy so I can grab the loot" is a much harder sell to your teammates than "hey can you kill this guy while I long rest".
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Dec 19, 2017 22:57
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Well I've learned something today. I guess I care too much about being able to choose which card to lose. And I like getting 2 or 3 uses out of those goggles every scenario. Next scenario, I'll give short resting a chance.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:59
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There's even a battle goal of "only take short rests."
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Dec 19, 2017 22:59
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There's also only to take long rests.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:02
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CaptainRightful posted:Well I've learned something today. I guess I care too much about being able to choose which card to lose. And I like getting 2 or 3 uses out of those goggles every scenario. Next scenario, I'll give short resting a chance. Bombadilillo posted:There's also only to take long rests.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:23
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My face when short resting with Spellweaver having Reviving Ether in the discard 
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Dec 19, 2017 23:29
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Lose one health and pick a different card.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:36
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Oh, I was meaning to ask as well, not really a spoiler but for sake of fairness... About road/city events; Are the road/city events ever positive? Of all the ones we've drawn so far they've basically all been 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' ones where we basically chose between two outcomes that sucked for us. Like one was either we all start with 3 damage or we're all poisoned. Another was lose reputation or lose gold. Either we've just been really unlucky or maybe we should just start minimizing trips so we don't get wrecked as bad.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:45
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Frush posted:Oh, I was meaning to ask as well, not really a spoiler but for sake of fairness... Yes. City moreso than Road, in my experience.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:46
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Yes. City moreso than Road, in my experience. Explicitly this is how it is and the rules tell you so.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:49
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Long Rest also gives you a bonus turn compared to short rest so you can stick around a bit longer.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:11
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I find the 2 health and item refresh can be a huge help. Just don't long rest when you are near enemies and it ends up being fine. My spellweaver is going to contribute a lot more long term if I get back my goggles and strengthening mana bolt, which you'll sometimes lose just to keep ether if you short rest. If you are down to one opponent it can still be worth it if you are going to be hit if you have armor and a shield. My friend's cragheart would nearly always short rest, but he had a lot more health to redraw and was generally on the front lines.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:34
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Aston posted:Long Rest also gives you a bonus turn compared to short rest so you can stick around a bit longer. That's true. If I'm low on card before a last door I'll let other mop up the room and long rest. Usually it's better to act and kill a think then try to recover but long rests do have a time and place.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:35
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misguided rage posted:This is the hardest scenario I've seen so far. Especially if you're only two players. Actually just did it with Triforce and 2 minis, and it wasn't that bad, because functionally being three people and some of our tricks, meant that it was more manageable. Still a bit hairy at times though.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:46
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Moonwolf posted:Actually just did it with Triforce and 2 minis, and it wasn't that bad, because functionally being three people and some of our tricks, meant that it was more manageable. Still a bit hairy at times though.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:48
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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In a 3 player game I drew the "kill 20 bandits/cultists" retirement on Scoundrel and am probabyl going to finish it in another 1-2 scenarios. Part of me is tempted just to retire and restart Scoundrel and deal with the loss of gold/xp and get a new retirement goal? Seems weird to be doing it so far ahead of everyone else and don't want to completely throw off the party comp.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:49
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misguided rage posted:We were two minis and saw. We only managed it because (2 minis spoiler) I could swap the orchid back into the starting room when he got too far ahead Even with that we still lost the first time. This power can totally gimp some scenarios. It's great.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:55
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Is it possible to beat scenario #54 in casual mode?
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Dec 20, 2017 03:45
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Retirement goal of exhaustion...does that trigger if you go down to under two cards total on the last turn of the scenario? That is, kill the boss using some loss cards, and now there's only one card in discard and none in hand. Does that count?
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Dec 20, 2017 05:51
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silvergoose posted:Retirement goal of exhaustion...does that trigger if you go down to under two cards total on the last turn of the scenario? That is, kill the boss using some loss cards, and now there's only one card in discard and none in hand. Does that count? No. Exhaustion from lack of cards technically only happens at the start of the next round. (p28 of the rulebook)
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Dec 20, 2017 05:58
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:No. Exhaustion from lack of cards technically only happens at the start of the next round. (p28 of the rulebook) I know, but it says if you are unable to short rest, which happens at the end of the round... Also that means in two player you need to either just ensure it happens the second to last round so your partner isn't alone, or fail, neither of which seem remotely satisfying.
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Dec 20, 2017 06:03
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silvergoose posted:I know, but it says if you are unable to short rest, which happens at the end of the round. I don't see anything that says that in the rules. Short rests are optional, and don't exhaust you - you just can't do one unless you have 2 cards in your discard. If you wanted to live dangerously, you could not block any damage until you're at 1hp, then take a short rest to exhaust that last hp at the end of the final round. Edit: might be good to edit the Retirement goal card number into your post so people know whether they can safely read this or not.
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Dec 20, 2017 06:11
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:No. Exhaustion from lack of cards technically only happens at the start of the next round. (p28 of the rulebook) That's not really a spoiler.  Rules clearly state you're exhausted if you can't play cards at the beginning of a new round. As for the goal I feel its one of those grey areas where you could count something like that if you wanted. You burned all the cards, so while technically you're exhausted at the start of the next round, you're still done. You could argue that since you're still on the map until the start of the round there is a difference. But there's also a lot of GH to play, and stretching the rules a bit once for 1/12 of a retirement goal isn't really going to ruin the experience. If you want a by-the-book ruling, it's pretty unambiguous though. I feel for my vote that I'd count it since otherwise your goal is to spend at least one turn as dead weight and not playing, which is in the category of 'unfun'. Remember the goal of playing a game is to have fun. Frush fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 06:29
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The spoiler is that that a specific mechanic (exhaustion) is involved with a retirement card.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:20
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Photux posted:It seems baffling to me that some parties wouldn't use short rests. My two player party has completed about 25 scenarios and I think we've used a grand total of two long rests. Long rests seem incredibly situational. Missing a turn is a huge drawback if there are enemies around, so unless clearing a room coincides perfectly with emptying your hand, it doesn't seem worth it to long rest. We've found some powerful passive and consumed items, so refreshing items doesn't do much for us, and a measly two healing isn't worth skipping an entire turn for, especially at our level. In a two player party, one person long resting takes half the party out of the fight for a turn, so maybe it's better in larger parties. My party of three usually short rests, but often long rests. When I was playing Mindrat, I'd swap between The Mind's Weakness and Parasitic Influence two times every rest-cycle, each time getting 2 xp. It ends up being 5+ xp a scenario which adds up quickly, but the combo always broke when short rest killed one of the two. With mindrat I always found I was burning cards too fast with summons that I'd get exhausted before anyone else anyway, so a long rest was an easy way to add an extra round to my lifespan while others catch up, and to protect good cards.
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Dec 20, 2017 09:44
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philihp posted:My party of three usually short rests, but often long rests. When I was playing Mindrat, I'd swap between The Mind's Weakness and Parasitic Influence two times every rest-cycle, each time getting 2 xp. It ends up being 5+ xp a scenario which adds up quickly, but the combo always broke when short rest killed one of the two. With mindrat I always found I was burning cards too fast with summons that I'd get exhausted before anyone else anyway, so a long rest was an easy way to add an extra round to my lifespan while others catch up, and to protect good cards. I'm not sure I understand this combo. Playing both cards each rest-cycle is 2 xp per rest-cycle, but if one gets lost due to a rest, you can still play the other one each rest cycle. Sure, that means you're not getting xp from the lost augment, but that's no different from losing any convenient xp-generating card. It sounds like we played Mindthief pretty differently anyway; I never used summons, preferring to go heavy on disables and consistent damage. The only card I feared losing was The Mind's Weakness, but as that wasn't in the discard half the time anyway, it wasn't a big deal to once in a while pay one health to avoid losing it in a short rest.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:27
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I took all the summons out of mindrat in favor of attack cards. I always ended up with 8+ so a scenario by burning big cards. Mindthief was super fun and I miss him.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:43
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Thanks all. I think my wife is gonna count them, since two player stuff feels like it unlocks pretty slowly, but knowing it's probably bending stuff. Though she's playing sun and fuckin loving it, so more time in the class won't hurt either.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:34
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Hey, so I decided to try a solo run of Gloomhaven to get a handle on the rules before I play with other folks and I thought I'd give my initial impressions. This is only the first scenario with base classes, so it is essentially spoiler free (i.e. you would get spoiled for the first scenario more by reading the rulebook than by reading this post). Also, I wrote up a companion post [url=https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3687728&pagenumber=1705&perpage=40#post479530072]here in the BG thread[\url] with some thoughts on how it plays solo and comparing it to Mage Knight.) I played with a brute and a mindthief because they seemed cool. Turn 1 - I thought I must be doing something wrong - the enemy won initiative and just killed my 10HP dude. I re-read and ohhhh I can ditch cards to avoid damage. Okay, so I do that. So before I've acted, I'm on 2HP and down 1 card. Not an auspicious beginning, but oh well. (Later on I found that I had poo poo luck with the enemy cards and they drew the only action card that could have beaten my initiative.) But this is a cool point where on turn 1 my eyes are opened to a whole new aspect of the game. The cards I had played were intended to a) win initiative, b) run over there and get in their faces, c) gain retaliation to beat them up when they hit back. Now these don't make sense at all because the dudes have already beaten me up and retaliation does nothing. But if I play them the other way around, I get an AoE and healing. So I purely accidentally played a decent Plan B for when my plan A got screwed by bad initiative luck. In future, I'll keep in mind planning for what happens if the initiative isn't how I expect - especially with Retaliation cards. Brute gets beaten on a bit more and loses another card to soaking damage before I clear the room and long rest, costing me another card. Now the death spiral is becoming clear - the fewer cards I have, the sooner I have to rest, losing me more cards. Yikes. Luckily my mindthief is doing fine. Down 1 card from resting, with 2 more permanently in play (+2att augment and summon rat swarm). So Mindthief will now be my mobile attacker while Brute goes for pure efficiency and card conservation. Here I get confused by the summon. What does it do in an empty room? Does it do nothing or does it move 1 sq per turn towards the door where more enemies lie? I decide it does the latter, but it doesn't matter. The summon is too slow to come with us and lags behind uselessly the rest of the game. Any thoughts I had of hiding the brute behind a wall, going invis with the mindthief, and luring enemies in to attack the summon are right out the window - there will be no time for any shenanigans. Gotta go fast! The summon made 2 attacks and drew -1 cards on both. So it was nearly entirely useless. It managed to poison dudes twice, but never did damage and never took a hit. Next time I'll try to position it better to get more use out of it, and manage init better to make it take hits for me. Blitz into the next room, shove a dude onto the traps. Have my second unresolved rules question here - if the first trap kills the dude, but I have an extra square of push, can I push him onto the second one just to trigger it and get rid of it? Brute is super low on cards - 2 in hand and 2 in discard. He'll have to barge into the last room alone and hope the shield he has up is enough to get him 1 more turn while the mindthief finishes the elite archer. He gets lucky on enemy attack draws (loving finally - they've been getting +2s and x2s all loving scenario until now), leaving him with 1 HP and his best combo for the final turn. He activates the boots, does his giant 6 damage attack to blow up one skellington, then moves through everyone else while attacking them to end his game with 0 cards on the treasure chest and catch up to the mindthief on XP. (Super glad I followed the recommendations and bought a healing potion and those boots, because the mindthief couldn't loot the chest - he was going to get 2 checks from the "don't loot" battle goal.) Mindthief came in and finished them off while his rats squeaked pitifully outside in the corridor. He was on 1 HP too, and spent his last card soaking a hit from the trap because I had decided that pushing the enemy's corpse onto the second trap was probably not legal. But he did have his stamina potion still, so even if I had gotten bad luck and had to eat one more hit, I could have at the cost of that potion. I'm happy with how it went - lots of learning for next time. Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 22:07
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The summon always moves before the turn of whoever summoned it, and it follows monster AI logic. Also, can you say what happened to have a turn 1 10hp instakill with only 2 characters on the board? That seems really unlikely and you might have messed up a rule, other than just the lack of card removal to prevent damage, for hat to happen.
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Dec 20, 2017 22:13
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Jimbozig posted:Turn 1 - I thought I must be doing something wrong - the enemy won initiative and just killed my 10HP dude. I re-read and ohhhh I can ditch cards to avoid damage. Okay, so I do that. So before I've acted, I'm on 2HP and down 1 card. Not an auspicious beginning, but oh well. (Later on I found that I had poo poo luck with the enemy cards and they drew the only action card that could have beaten my initiative.) quote:Here I get confused by the summon. What does it do in an empty room? Does it do nothing or does it move 1 sq per turn towards the door where more enemies lie? I decide it does the latter, but it doesn't matter. quote:Blitz into the next room, shove a dude onto the traps. Have my second unresolved rules question here - if the first trap kills the dude, but I have an extra square of push, can I push him onto the second one just to trigger it and get rid of it?
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Dec 20, 2017 22:20
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Jordan7hm posted:The summon always moves before the turn of whoever summoned it, and it follows monster AI logic. But what does the summon do when all the dudes in the room are dead and the door to the next room is not open yet? Does it move towards the door or does it do nothing? Technically, the monsters in the next room are the closest to it, so one of them would be its focus - if they count. The 3 guards walked up to my Brute and attacked him. They do a base damage of 3 at that level (monster level 2 because of the Solo variant rules that say to up monster level and trap damage by 1), and two of them drew a +1 from the deck, for a total of 11 damage. Edit: now that I look at the cards, I think that I may have hosed up the initiative? Because they just drew a Move+0 Attack+0 card, which I see is not low initiative. But that's all they did - they moved 3 spaces up to me and hit me.
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Dec 20, 2017 22:23
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One of those guards is elite, so you should have taken 12 damage 
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Dec 20, 2017 22:33
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misguided rage posted:One of those guards is elite, so you should have taken 12 damage The monsters in the next room don’t exist until you open the door. Pretty sure with no enemies to target it just doesn’t move.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:01
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Jimbozig posted:But what does the summon do when all the dudes in the room are dead and the door to the next room is not open yet? Does it move towards the door or does it do nothing? Technically, the monsters in the next room are the closest to it, so one of them would be its focus - if they count. That's the problem; they don't count. So summons don't move up to the door before it's open, and most don't move fast enough to really be useful in a second room. I've seen them be good but they're situational at best because of their AI. The guards probably moved slower than you think then. And the best way to avoid damage is to kill them or status them so they can't hit back in general.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:08
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I just looked at the guard cards. Their low initiative cards don’t let them both move and attack. I think you missed that part. You only do what it says on the card. They don’t move and attack without penalty on anything less than 50 initiative.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:11
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Jordan7hm posted:I just looked at the guard cards. Their low initiative cards don’t let them both move and attack. I think you missed that part. You only do what it says on the card. They don’t move and attack without penalty on anything less than 50 initiative. Yeah, I understand that rule, but I clearly hosed up their first turn in some way. I either gave them a free movement on their low initiative card (which means I actually took more damage because of poison, hah) or I let them take their turn too early on one of their regular cards. Not sure which. At any rate, I managed to prevail despite that. It also took me until the second scenario to realize that when you use potions they are only gone for that scenario and not gone forever. Which makes them a really good deal, I think! I've played a few more scenarios now and I've just ditched the summon card entirely on my rat dude. I'd rather hit more dudes.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:09
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Jimbozig posted:It also took me until the second scenario to realize that when you use potions they are only gone for that scenario and not gone forever. Which makes them a really good deal, I think! I've played a few more scenarios now and I've just ditched the summon card entirely on my rat dude. I'd rather hit more dudes. Yeah, this is also why I suggest everyone takes the stamina potion instead of the healing potion. 3 HP back for nothing? That's useful. Two cards back out of your discard? That's amazing. Especially early on that can buy you more turns, or make it easier to deal with tanking that one 2x hit that got through for 6 damage. Or just prevent 3. Or bring back that card that stunned the guy so you can damage him and stun him again and take no damage at all. Maybe someone can provide examples, but given the choice of the two and limited bag space I'm not sure why you'd ever take a healing potion over stamina.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:33
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