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Yeah it's a pretty noticeable pattern that characters ended up acting more like dickbags whenever they were fighting against U7. The crew at Toei should rewatch Goku's fights against Jackie Chun and Pikon and realize that the "villain" of a tournament arc doesn't have to be a "bad guy" in the slightest.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:15
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Also, superman isn't the bad guy in red son.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:20
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Batmankoff ftw
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Feb 18, 2018 16:24
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Blaze Dragon posted:Anyways I was going to post about this episode but the negativity of this thread killed the mood Vegeta's amazing near-death performance gave me, so I won't. I miss when this thread wasn't terrible. Yo I totally agree with you there. The Vegeta stuff in this episode was top tier, and it felt actually painful to watch. What a great way for him to go out. He took out GoD Toppo, and he didn’t job to Jiren at all he went out hella hard. What a great episode for vegeta
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Feb 18, 2018 16:26
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"Get ready to get owned by me, the super cool fused warrior" is a tack taken by every fusion in dragonball history.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:32
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Based on tweets by this episode's writer, there's some reason to believe this episode was written in September 2017 so maybe not. Oh. Huh. Interesting to know. So it was always going to be rushed?
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Feb 18, 2018 16:40
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amigolupus posted:If Jiren was dickbag Supes from the old comics, he'd pretend he got ringed out to give Dyspo some insane lesson about responsibility, convince Goku he's actually a robot all this time, and transformed Freeza into a horse. I would be down with that being how the series ends.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:42
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The first five minutes of this episode was really good. But only because it's the first time in the tournament that a character has actually come across as completely drained. I suppose it would've been a better sell if Vegeta hadn't been totally fine in the previous episode after outing Toppo. Everything after that was dull as dishwater though. What a boring arc this turned out to be. This all makes me think back to when Naruto did a huge long tournament arc. It had a fairly long run of going through individual fights, but then took a sharp left turn and the plot actually went somewhere interesting - it turned out more was happening behind the scenes and the tournament suddenly didn't matter anymore. I just really wish something like that happened here. What if Jiren was using the ToP as a way to get close to the gods so he could take them down? Or if Zeno suddenly decided that the tournament wasn't entertaining enough and either changed the rules or decided the participants should be murderfucked by Angels? Anything other than 'the tournament proceeds until there is a winner' would've been a million times better.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:45
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Sade posted:"Get ready to get owned by me, the super cool fused warrior" is a tack taken by every fusion in dragonball history.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:46
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TheGamerGuy23 posted:Outside of movies, has there even been a fusion that's ever beaten a bad guy? I think the high point is actually Piccolo inconclusively kicking Imperfect Cell's rear end. Fusion's really just a case of being too good to work, alongside the Destructo Disc and Mafuba. No Dignity fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 16:52
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Steve2911 posted:The first five minutes of this episode was really good. But only because it's the first time in the tournament that a character has actually come across as completely drained. I suppose it would've been a better sell if Vegeta hadn't been totally fine in the previous episode after outing Toppo. Everything after that was dull as dishwater though. Is the obsession with "taking down the gods" the American version of Gohan Blanco because goddamn, that's the one constant in these what ifs. People wanna Zeno to go psycho and start stabbing bitches while Grande Padre looks on and I don't really get it, if anything that's more cliche than just running the tournament to its end.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:53
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Dias posted:Is the obsession with "taking down the gods" the American version of Gohan Blanco because goddamn, that's the one constant in these what ifs. People wanna Zeno to go psycho and start stabbing bitches while Grande Padre looks on and I don't really get it, if anything that's more cliche than just running the tournament to its end. Yes. I think one of the angels smirked when his universe was destroyed and everyone immediately patched into it as some dumb “angels are actually evil and the mortals will rise up in this tournament”
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Feb 18, 2018 16:57
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Dias posted:Is the obsession with "taking down the gods" the American version of Gohan Blanco because goddamn, that's the one constant in these what ifs. People wanna Zeno to go psycho and start stabbing bitches while Grande Padre looks on and I don't really get it, if anything that's more cliche than just running the tournament to its end. Nah, it's just taking the subtext of the entirety of Super (the celestial power structure is a terrible fascist regime) and taking it to its logical conclusion. But those were just examples. Like I said, anything.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:57
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When people see that the gods are evil and abuse their power in fiction the audience expects that they're going to get their comeuppance. Of course, DragonBall takes place in an utterly amoral universe and nobody cares that god plays marbles planets because gently caress it, who HASN'T had that kind of boss ya get me? 
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Feb 18, 2018 16:59
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Dias posted:Is the obsession with "taking down the gods" the American version of Gohan Blanco because goddamn, that's the one constant in these what ifs. People wanna Zeno to go psycho and start stabbing bitches while Grande Padre looks on and I don't really get it, if anything that's more cliche than just running the tournament to its end.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:59
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That's just what people want the subtext to be. If you think that's the story they're telling or that there's any deeper story being told here at all I have to wonder what show you're watching
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Feb 18, 2018 17:00
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Blockhouse posted:That's just what people want the subtext to be. This entire 50 episode arc has existed to help an all power toddler to decide which trillions he should slaughter and which to let live. e: What's the deal with Super Dragon Ball Heroes anyway? Why do they get carte blanche to announce major plot points months before the show has? stev fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 17:02
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Steve2911 posted:This entire 50 episode arc has existed to help an all power toddler to decide which trillions he should slaughter and which to let live. And the story cares about that exactly as much as it does Vegeta murdering aliens and eating them, or Beerus blowing up a planet because their food sucked.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:05
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It’s hard to make an argument for “the subtext is gently caress the celestial hierarchy” when Goku, the main character, thinks Beerus, Whis, and even Zeno are cool folks
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Feb 18, 2018 17:06
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Kashuno posted:It’s hard to make an argument for “the subtext is gently caress the celestial hierarchy” when Goku, the main character, thinks Beerus, Whis, and even Zeno are cool folks All of these points are failures of the show.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:07
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That’s not an argument. The show not doing what you think the subtext is isn’t a failure of the show, it’s you wanting something different than what the show actually is.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:09
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"The things that don't line up with my individual reading of the show are faults with the show" Is a real weird take
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Feb 18, 2018 17:09
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those would be failures if it was trying to be something other than a kid's punchmans show, yeah, but this isn't One Piece's bigger picture villains being an oppressive aristocracy. There's no aspirations here. Now of course lack of a deeper message can in and of itself be a message but regardless it's not the one you're looking for.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:12
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Kashuno posted:It’s hard to make an argument for “the subtext is gently caress the celestial hierarchy” when Goku, the main character, thinks Beerus, Whis, and even Zeno are cool folks Goku did looked really pissed the first time a universe was erased, but it's hard to say what they're angling for though as alot of the character moments seem to be the insertions of individual writers which aren't follow through by the story at large. There's definitely been enough hints of a future struggle against the Gods arc and it'd fit thematically with what Super has done already, but with how Toei's bottled doing anything interesting with the ToP I have to admit I'm not as sure that they will as I was that the start of the saga
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Feb 18, 2018 17:13
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Goku told Hit that they're not gonna just remain pawns of the gods way back when
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Feb 18, 2018 17:15
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Remember when the Z Fighters actively allowed the Android Saga to happen even though they had a workable plan to nip it in the bud and save everyone who would die in the attack? Remember when Goku almost straight up murdered Shin because he tried to interrupt his grudge match with Vegeta? Jiren is right, Good and Evil really don't matter at all in this franchise.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:15
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Augus posted:Goku told Hit that they're not gonna just remain pawns of the gods way back when He was talking about getting to fight Hit without the rules of the tournament then not planning some kind of rebellion because why would Goku ever give a poo poo as long as none of the gods are trying to kill him or his friends
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Feb 18, 2018 17:17
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I really think there have been hints at some kind of "go against the gods" thing sprinkled about ever since the U6/U7 tournament. It's just never really gone anywhere, and it feels odd.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:22
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The truth is they use that God subtext when they wanna be fake dramatic and get easy drama and will quickly ignore it after.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:23
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Blockhouse posted:why would Goku ever give a poo poo as long as none of the gods are trying to kill him or his friends The gods are currently threatening to kill him and his friends.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:23
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Steve2911 posted:The gods are currently threatening to kill him and his friends. Nah, Jiren is. No really that’s how Goku thinks
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Feb 18, 2018 17:26
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Steve2911 posted:This entire 50 episode arc has existed to help an all power toddler to decide which trillions he should slaughter and which to let live. Because they make a lot of money
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Feb 18, 2018 17:27
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1. Hate to be a wet blanket but I'm pretty sure Toei decided on Goku Blanco independent of Latin America fan art. That said, the coincidence is funny. 2. I'm also surprised there hasn't been a plot twist at the end throwing the tournament in disarray like the Buu tournament or Konoha Crush. 3. Looking forward to Freeza coming back to oh-ho-ho'ing his way in.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:29
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I liked the part where the Punchman punched the other Punchman and then they stood and stared at eachother. The only thing that would have made it better is if there was some yelling.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:29
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Kashuno posted:Yes. I think one of the angels smirked when his universe was destroyed and everyone immediately patched into it as some dumb “angels are actually evil and the mortals will rise up in this tournament” The weirdest thing is that it's really obvious why he did it, yet, the fandom managed to completely miss the point. It was the Angel from U9, the biggest shithole of the Universes, an Angel that was already shown to be very displeased by his job. He smiled because he was really, really glad he didn't have to deal with Roh's poo poo and Sidra's incompetence anymore. This was really loving obvious, yet people missed it. People can't understand a dumb as poo poo punchmans anime yet they seemingly want DEEP PLOTS. TheKingofSprings posted:Because they make a lot of money Basically. Heroes kept the franchise alive to this day, it's very, very important to Dragon Ball and it has been so for years now. I also want the new Heroes video ASAP because the idea of seeing Goku fight Goku is cool as hell and this seems like a much more interesting arc than the previous one.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:32
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TheGamerGuy23 posted:It's just weird because it almost seemed like it was being alluded to. U9's Angel and Grande Padre's reactions after the first Universe erasure just seem so out of place because they're never brought up again, and nothing like it happens ever again. I think that was more because U9’s angel really hated working for incompetent amoral shitheads like Rou and Sidra.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:32
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So you're saying that U9's Angel is an amoral monster?
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Feb 18, 2018 17:33
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the only real way this can go is some god fuckery im p sure Frieza is gonna start a fight between the two Zen-Ohs they are very close to the same but they've made the point that they arent on the same page about everything
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Feb 18, 2018 17:34
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Why can't we get half the cool DB stuff, its not like its complicated stuff. It seems so pointless to keep it exclusive in this day and age.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:34
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Nodosaur posted:I think that was more because U9’s angel really hated working for incompetent amoral shitheads like Rou and Sidra. It would have been more obvious if that were the case.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:35
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