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It doesn't matter what the Founding Fathers believed or intended. They hosed up in a ton of other places and we have already amended the constitution numerous times to adapt it, even if George Washington wanted everyone to have a tactical nuke on a dead man's switch it doesn't mean that's a good idea or something we need to put any weight on today. They wrote a bunch of other idiot poo poo that is much less ambiguous, we don't have to determine how dumb the 2nd amendment was actually supposed to be in order to know we need to fix it.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:49
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Things the founders did that might make their judgement suspect by modern standards: 1. Owned slaves.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:08
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Guys have you been reading this thread? There are dozens of "ACTUALLY this was a prototype assault rifle that fired hundreds of bullets a second around at the time so they knew what they were writing" memes.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:25
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boner confessor posted:in this case, the rabble having cannon was a big part of what won the revolution. a ton of the founders perspective towards militia was influenced by the fact that the reason they were founders was because of militia This was also a time where people thought it was perfectly normal to solve problems through dueling or feuding. At the time professional armies were also the exception rather than the rule; your peasantry was also your army so you kind of had to have them have guns. Militias and levies were expected to have their own weapons. So of course colonial powers did whatever they could to disarm whoever they were exploiting; that was part of the second amendment. It was a direct "gently caress you" to the colonial powers of the time. The possibility of independence not lasting long because somebody bigger and nastier came knocking was a very real threat so of course they wanted a nation armed to the teeth. Aside from that muzzle loading weapons were also used for hunting and good loving luck convincing the people living here to stop doing that.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:50
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ToxicSlurpee posted:This was also a time where people thought it was perfectly normal to solve problems through dueling or feuding. At the time professional armies were also the exception rather than the rule; your peasantry was also your army so you kind of had to have them have guns. Militias and levies were expected to have their own weapons. no, standing armies were definitely fully in force at this point. being able to field a large, professional army mattered. the colonial rebels had a small standing army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Army) but the ability for the rebels to immediately summon and field a few extra thousand dudes at a moment's notice was a huge factor given that the british had to truck in all their troops from europe or rely on unreliable canadian or native soldiers e: the british relied a ton on german mercenaries who weren't PMCs but rather standing armies from various german governments who didn't have anything better to occupy their soldiers time, so they were rented out to the overextended british boner confessor fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 00:53
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Keeshhound posted:Things the founders did that might make their judgement suspect by modern standards: John Adams didn't, which goes to the point that they're not a monolith.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:17
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boner confessor posted:e: the british relied a ton on german mercenaries who weren't PMCs but rather standing armies from various german governments who didn't have anything better to occupy their soldiers time, so they were rented out to the overextended british My first ancestor in the States was one of them! He got captured by the Americans and couldn't afford a ride home after the war, or so the family legend goes.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:32
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Soviet Commubot posted:He got [arrested]... and couldn't afford a ride home Man, the only way you could get more American than that is if he'd had an apple pie shoved up his rear end.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:36
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My dad came over from Northern Ireland in the 70s and he claims he couldn’t afford to go back because he spent all his money on drinks every weekend
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Feb 21, 2018 01:43
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boner confessor posted:no, standing armies were definitely fully in force at this point. being able to field a large, professional army mattered. the colonial rebels had a small standing army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Army) but the ability for the rebels to immediately summon and field a few extra thousand dudes at a moment's notice was a huge factor given that the british had to truck in all their troops from europe or rely on unreliable canadian or native soldiers Yeah. The framers were still thinking of the US as a loose association of various countries at that point and they thought that keeping a large standing army around for no real reason would mean that the federal government would kick around state governments. Mainly because the slavers were afraid that a central government would stop them from enslaving other human beings.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:48
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 Just saw this poo poo in the wild. Except oops that's video from when the kid was on vacation and caught an altercation. Apparently the ability to get in a car and be somewhere else months ago is evidence of being a crisis actor now.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:55
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Duke Igthorn posted:Guys have you been reading this thread? There are dozens of "ACTUALLY this was a prototype assault rifle that fired hundreds of bullets a second around at the time so they knew what they were writing" memes. Sure, but those are responses to 'the founding fathers never anticipated modern weapons' arguments to changing the 2nd - which still assume that they made good decisions and just lacked foresight. I don't care if Thomas Jefferson had an AR-15 for a dick, what they knew or predicted. We know they made a loving mess when they had all the information they needed at the time. All we need to know is the 2nd is busted, and we should fix it.
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Feb 21, 2018 02:14
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TGLT posted:
I know this sentiment is par for the course in this thread, but what kind of hosed up cynical monster do you have to be to think that children and parents are loving pretending that their friends and family were murdered. Jesus Christ.
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Feb 21, 2018 02:24
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Asiina posted:I know this sentiment is par for the course in this thread, but what kind of hosed up cynical monster do you have to be to think that children and parents are loving pretending that their friends and family were murdered.
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Feb 21, 2018 03:55
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Asiina posted:I know this sentiment is par for the course in this thread, but what kind of hosed up cynical monster do you have to be to think that children and parents are loving pretending that their friends and family were murdered. being a hosed up cynical monster greatly overlaps with being a gun rights advocate these days
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Feb 21, 2018 04:12
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Banning assault rifles is the first step in the slippery slope that leads to the government busting down the front door and stealing my grandpappy's single shot deer rifle! - poo poo they actually believe.
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Feb 21, 2018 05:16
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boner confessor posted:no, standing armies were definitely fully in force at this point. being able to field a large, professional army mattered. the colonial rebels had a small standing army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Army) but the ability for the rebels to immediately summon and field a few extra thousand dudes at a moment's notice was a huge factor given that the british had to truck in all their troops from europe or rely on unreliable canadian or native soldiers Standing armies were in force during the war, but the Continental Army was largely disbanded once the British were defeated (it's in your link). The "well-regulated militia" was more able to respond to sudden threats (including both invasion and slave revolts), so each state could have their own set of reserves that they could call up in a crisis. The second amendment was a promise that the federal government wouldn't try to disarm the states and run everything at the federal level. "States' rights" was part of it- states were worried about a standing national army taking away their sovereignty, so they needed some degree of local control. It was a valid concern, particularly among those who were afraid the new Constitution gave the federal government too much power, and the whole point of the Bill of Rights was to assure states that, even though the Constitution was stronger than the Articles of Confederation, there were still some things that were off limits. Ashcans posted:It doesn't matter what the Founding Fathers believed or intended. They hosed up in a ton of other places and we have already amended the constitution numerous times to adapt it, even if George Washington wanted everyone to have a tactical nuke on a dead man's switch it doesn't mean that's a good idea or something we need to put any weight on today. Yes, but passing laws that already are within the Constitution is easier than changing it (I'm not against changing it, just being pragmatic). Basically, if the only way to get gun control is to change the Constitution, then we'll be waiting a long time. Fortunately, most Constitutional scholars agree that some regulation is permitted by the 2nd amendment. Instant Sunrise posted:Yeah. The framers were still thinking of the US as a loose association of various countries at that point and they thought that keeping a large standing army around for no real reason would mean that the federal government would kick around state governments. Not exactly- that was more the Articles of Confederation. The Constitution was very specifically meant to be stronger and create a unified nation, though the power didn't really shift in that direction until the 14th amendment. You're right about the fear of the feds overpowering the states. Just read this a few weeks ago, by the way, and it has a good section on the 2nd amendment. The whole book is well worth your time. Jurgan fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 06:44
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Jurgan posted:Standing armies were in force during the war, but the Continental Army was largely disbanded once the British were defeated (it's in your link). that's got nothing to do with my point that by the 1770s levies were long out of date, in response to "At the time professional armies were also the exception rather than the rule; "
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Feb 21, 2018 06:51
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Asiina posted:I know this sentiment is par for the course in this thread, but what kind of hosed up cynical monster do you have to be to think that children and parents are loving pretending that their friends and family were murdered. Remember that gun owners are willing to accept anything that doesn't involve their gun ownership being inconvenienced. The victims only serve their narrative if it is being used to weaken gun regulation, not strengthen it. Its like that twilight zone episode taken to an extreme- imagine if everybody had a box with a button that upon pressing it, would give them a million dollars but a random person in the US would drop dead. Then at some point the government decided, "Maybe random killboxes are not a good idea, we should probably not let just anyone mess with them". Killbox owners would go absolutely apeshit, they'd be mashing those killbuttons so hard their fingers would blister up, and saying stuff like  "ITS NOT THIS MYSTERIOUS BOX THAT RANDOMLY MURDERS A PERSON THATS A PROBLEM, ITS IRRESPONSIBLE KILLBOX USERS. ALSO ILLEGALS."
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Feb 21, 2018 07:09
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 The whole crisis actor thing has been popping up a lot on my social media. I'm skeptical for sure, but this does seem a little weird. Not sure I'd be so cheerful and smiley given the gravity of the situation.
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Feb 21, 2018 11:18
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Keeshhound posted:Things the founders did that might make their judgement suspect by modern standards: Things the founders did that might make their legislation suspect by modern standards: 1. Codified the legality of owning slaves.
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Feb 21, 2018 11:50
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Sevryn posted:
Is this a parody one? All the images are from recent news segments about the shooting and the students speaking out.
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Feb 21, 2018 12:11
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Sevryn posted:
People who have been through tragedies are occasionally allowed to smile. (Like... perhaps when a sympathetic and/or friendly journalist has finished an interview and goes to take a selfie)
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Feb 21, 2018 12:12
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generatrix posted:People who have been through tragedies are occasionally allowed to smile. Actually, it's too soon to smile, not even a week after the massacre. You are
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Feb 21, 2018 13:40
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Sevryn posted:Not sure I'd be so cheerful and smiley given the gravity of the situation. 
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Feb 21, 2018 14:29
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Where's this from?
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Feb 21, 2018 14:59
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I had an actual epiphany today, not that my entire life hasn't turned into something like a walking religious experience. Colored with my understanding of the mechanism of inspiration, it would be more accurately described as a full fledged designed and planned cascade of mental connections. It began with my mental visualization of merging or connecting the meaning of "Trinity" and "Matrix" together using the images you see, ones that I've worked on for the last few months. These images are "art" to me, but more than that they are teaching tools that convey a significant amount of detailed information; quite a bit of work goes in to making each one, filled with things like connections between ancient religious concepts and modern technological ones or maybe a series of intersected ideas that help to make the mental process "click" when you see them floating next to each other--at least that's my intention. I think they're filled with information both blatant and subtle, if anything with even more than I intended, he speaks through me without me knowing often--adding a little touch of "extra pizzazz," something I didn't see and wouldn't recognize until going over the piece--smiling a little more then to see something a little bit "more perfect" than I had intended. For instance the puzzle that you see below had some magically added hidden messages from "the Universe" when I went to look at it again; and often I'll notice that my emails have "intersected themes" that I did not write them intending to create, showing that the entirety of the design of this message is ... designed, surprise--that was probably obvious at "hearing" and "disappear" and "precious." Yesterday's puzzle did have some intended "intersections" specifically the link between the words ashamed, indica, den and weed; and the now connected grouping of "Trinities" of which I've now added America, Dragon, and "assassination" to. That last one is interesting "assistance" right? So I've talked quite a bit about the "shared m" that begins message and messenger and messiah and I was thinking of some "m"'s that I would use to show this visually. The first obvious one is the "Ha'm" of Green Eggs and Ham, and then the second very obvious one to pick is the "m" of Amsterdam; which logically connects to the Holy Grail message that I'll be talking about in a little bit. These choices are the obvious ones, but at the same time I connected them to another name that I'd never noticed the link to before--though seeing my initials in Muhammad I'd never noticed the "ha'm" and the "da'm" coming from the east and west to meet in the middle. If it could be more poetic, you can imagine that we could be very much staring at the heart of that name, and the heart of the NES and the heart of the Torah and the heart of Creation all in one single point and one single picture. The stories behind the two pieces, the time in jail and fighting against a broken legal and justice system as well as the idea of "Amsterdam," that the message is being spoken through all of humanity, the "everyone really" of well, that "m" probably give a good picture of both sides of the Horn of Revelation and perhaps of how and why we might be looking at an insightful key into layers of reasons behind recursive iteration of this timeline. In the two new Trinities in the intersection on the word map you can see the hearts of both America and Dragon might have something to do with "see El to see (silver)... the message is really everyone." Seeing these two ideas come together in the heart of Creation along with the "neither angry nor crazy" assistance I imagine that a real understanding of this message and it's purpose really does bring to us here--well, it gave me an honest to God "holy poo poo" ... well, like five seconds. You might be dazzled a little longer. The Grail message connects the concept of Holy Water and Holy Blood to the Revelation and intersections of a number of religions. Nun is the father of Joshua in the OT and the God whose name means "watery abyss" in Egypt; Mary includes the Spanish for sea, and we can see that same word connecting Eden's initials to the idea of the "multitude of Revelation" and it continues on, and on, and on. In Exodus we can see it backwards and parted by an apostrophe in "Ha'esh" the word for the fire of the Burning Bush--and see that turning around and seeing the light turns the fire into ... the Eternal Flame of freedom and family powering Heaven forever. Sam intersects with a number of other concepts, Uncle Sam, Secret Samadhi, Samael, Doctor Seuss... just to name a few; and the A.D. connections are equally plentiful. The "AH" key is lead into by Allah, and we can see from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that this idea of a marriage to the whole sea is a "tradition" of (the victories of) this place. In the original Sang Rael message I pointed out Shekinah in a mathematical division operation with "everyone" connects to the very words of Genesis and shows a 1:1 correlation between "she" and "eve" ... it's the Hebrew word for the Spirit of God hovering over the "waters." It's the point of the map, you might surmise from the name of one of the primary guides, the Torah; and really what we are showing you here is proof that we are in a designed world, that this is literally the Matrix and that this is the "code of it" a tapestry connecting words and art in history and religion--to present to you the New Testament and a pattern throughout the Torah as a sort of bare minimum "prototype" of what everyone should really want to do just as soon as they find out that this is a computer simulation--a Holodeck, rather than the natural Universe. Here I've pointed out a number of other AIDS of names, like "Down Syndrome" and Hadid it--so you should too!, as a clue that healing the sick is something "predestined" and hallowed. As far as Trinities go, you can add "Roddenberry" to this list here, where his name ties to the rod of Christ--Doors in another code linking to Lot and the band Tool (and a map to many more bands as part of this WWJD); to Adam's Den and this idea that "turning stone to bread" is the heart of the key to realizing the vast differences and beginning of opportunities opened through this disclosure. At the heart of "try" is the connection between Trinity and the Matrix; the message that we are "IN IT" and that changes everything--it changes how we look at starvation, and pain, and in truth it shows us that we are at the gate, only steps away from Heaven.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:02
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Sevryn posted:
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Feb 21, 2018 15:07
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The Macaroni posted:Where's this from? some poster's sig in c-spam people tell me it's from the show lexx, but googling that seems inconclusive
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Feb 21, 2018 15:12
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Sevryn posted:
A person I know who is 1) not a gun nut 2) not right wing 3) generally level headed just posted "Hmmm makes you think" post with this picture.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:57
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Knight posted:What about it, exactly? What is the context of that group photo and why should seeing those students on cable news after a mass shooting be suspicious? No you see they should be completely traumatized and broken and in mourning and not telling anyone about their experiences because that might prejudice them against guns. Gateway Pundit is pushing this garbage. You know, because about five days later some kids managed to smile in a group they're secretly just partying like rock stars.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:04
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SalTheBard posted:A person I know who is 1) not a gun nut 2) not right wing 3) generally level headed just posted "Hmmm makes you think" post with this picture.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:04
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The Macaroni posted:Where's this from? Lexx, during the terrible final season. Still had funny moments like that though.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:08
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Also gently caress me that woman above Emma Gonzalez is Emma Jane Gonzalez, "a graduate of NYU, with a B.F.A. in Television Writing." But I mean they have the same first and last name so I guess they're the same person. edit: Seriously though the girl with a shaved head mysteriously pisses off gun nuts a whole god drat bunch. Such a conundrum.
TGLT fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 16:08
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The former County Recorder in Maricopa County, Arizona has the same name as the wife of a former governor that Bill Clinton worked under. As a result lots of people have bought into a theory that she was a very long term sleeper agent for Clinton. At a certain point it isn't even stupidity, you've got to want to believe this stuff in order to believe.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:12
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Nothing is too ridiculous for Clinton conspiracy theories; there were people saying that Hillary Clinton had a lesbian sex slave harem procured by FBI brainwashing experts.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:27
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Sevryn posted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia once you go down the crisis actor hole, everything is on the table. 9/11 was a false flag! the vietnam war was a false flag! abraham lincoln was a groomed illuminati plant and the civil war never happened! it's just flat out delusional denials of reality. avoid everything to do with it i mean it's possible the shooting was staged, all of these shootings were staged, and that 10% of americans are fake and dont exist and are part of a goliath conspiracy to manipulate you, the Last Free True Thinking Man. or, people's emotions are weird, especially teenagers. nah, must be the conspiracy 
boner confessor fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 16:36
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Wouldn't it be trivially easy to prove that these kids went to this school? What are they even trying to argue with this crisis actor bullshit?
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Feb 21, 2018 17:53
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Abe Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln. Reeeeally makes you think...
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Feb 21, 2018 17:54
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Hobo Clown posted:Wouldn't it be trivially easy to prove that these kids went to this school? What are they even trying to argue with this crisis actor bullshit? You can't prove anything to me if I believe that literally every possible argument against mine is based on or part of the conspiracy.
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Feb 21, 2018 17:59
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