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Falstaff
Apr 27, 2008

I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Omi no Kami posted:

One of my very favorite scenes from Worm was Amy's prison interlude, where it's casually mentioned that Dragon reads a bunch of books and personally picks what she thinks the prisoners in the birdcage might enjoy, and then a delivery comes with a ton of goofy young adult novels.

You know, I knew both those factoids reading through Worm the first time ("Dragon reads the books that end up in the Birdcage" and "the Birdcage has bad ersatz-Twilight books") but I never quite connected the two before now. Thanks for the lol.

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PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Omi no Kami posted:

One of my very favorite scenes from Worm was Amy's prison interlude, where it's casually mentioned that Dragon reads a bunch of books and personally picks what she thinks the prisoners in the birdcage might enjoy, and then a delivery comes with a ton of goofy young adult novels.
Now I'm imagining Dragon taking like, an entire 5 minutes to run through the pros and cons of sending in the entire run of Animorphs.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Dragon and Colin are two of the best characters in Worm. They're just fun and WB's writing style really helps them, much more than it does some of his other characters.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Milky Moor posted:

Dragon and Colin are two of the best characters in Worm. They're just fun and WB's writing style really helps them, much more than it does some of his other characters.
Yeah also ngl I dig the fact that in their relationships it's the AI helping the emotionally constipated human to empathize with other people.

WHAT IS THIS THING CALLED 'LOVE', DRAGON?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

PetraCore posted:

Yeah also ngl I dig the fact that in their relationships it's the AI helping the emotionally constipated human to empathize with other people.

WHAT IS THIS THING CALLED 'LOVE', DRAGON?

The bit with the Madonna/Whore complex or whatever and Colin's just like 'Okay but, get this babe, you can be BOTH so I don't see what the problem is?' is also great.

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

The Colin/Dragon interludes are also some of my favorite parts of Worm.

They just can't beat the Brutus interlude though.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




So newest Practical Guide chapter. I see Catherine has not only maintained her poo poo talk game, she has in fact improved upon it. Nothing stings more than brutal honesty. I really want a Crusader Interlude of their reaction after Thief stole their entire food supply.

I kind of hate the Saint of Swords.

Tzarnal
Dec 26, 2011

SerSpook posted:

So newest Practical Guide chapter. I see Catherine has not only maintained her poo poo talk game, she has in fact improved upon it. Nothing stings more than brutal honesty. I really want a Crusader Interlude of their reaction after Thief stole their entire food supply.

I kind of hate the Saint of Swords.


Saint of swords seems to be the hero equivalent to Black Knight here. In theory that's supposed to be White Knight but really they're not counterparts to eachother aside from Name. Meanwhile Saint of Swords is this ancient ( by named standards, they die a lot ) Villain murderer who just does not give any fucks and might as well be a force of nature.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Tzarnal posted:

Saint of swords seems to be the hero equivalent to Black Knight here. In theory that's supposed to be White Knight but really they're not counterparts to eachother aside from Name. Meanwhile Saint of Swords is this ancient ( by named standards, they die a lot ) Villain murderer who just does not give any fucks and might as well be a force of nature.

I disagree with the comparison to Black Knight. Catherine's own comparison to Ranger is much more fitting. The Black Knight is less a force of nature and more a chess-master that is always several steps ahead of you, plus Batman. If anyone is the "heroic" Black Knight, I'd expect it to be Grey Pilgrim. Heck, he even does the mentor thing like Black did with Cat. I don't think a heroic Black exists though, he seems like a kind of unique occurrence.

To me, the Saint of Swords comes across as kind of arrogant. And for good reason, she is phenomenally powerful. But she tends to make snap judgments on issues that I'm pretty sure are meant to be dead wrong. Her opposition to the terms of engagement, for instance. She was also very insistent that the Named wizard to the south, going against Warlock, would thrash him because their guy was Gigantes trained and that is ancient and very powerful. When a few chapters earlier, Masego had specifically called out Gigantes magical theory as being woefully outdated and only good for specific things (enchantments I think?).

What's really gonna be interesting is when Masego reveals what he's been doing with the Observatory. I know one of Cat's inner circle were convinced it was a weapon and not just an expensive scrying tower, and I wanna say Hakram didn't refute it but didn't offer specifics?

Gladi
Oct 23, 2008
TWI 3.34 : Thank god, thus could have been such a mess.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Ward: everything about the way Chris acts makes me think that we're heading towards his screwed-up reveal being that he's a middle-aged guy whose changer power makes him look like a kid, and I've read a ton of others also heading towards that conclusion, but I dunno; it seems like the story's trying too hard to make that a thing, and the fact that Tattletale saw deep reflection (and presumably whatever his cephalopod form is) without knowing what chris looked like and still concluded it was a kid inside makes me doubt it.

Kenzie on the other hand, holy crap- a lot of the writing in Ward has been awkward and poorly-edited, so I can't tell if this is intentional or WB rushing to get the chapter out, but the way her dad talked is pushing me much further into the pro-Robodad faction. Like, his middle managers sentence didn't even make grammatical sense, and Kenzie quickly interjecting sounded like someone resetting a behavior tree. (I know he's probably just an awkward guy, but every single thing about Kenzie is so absurdly suspicious that I love conspiracizing about her.)

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!


Omi no Kami posted:

Kenzie on the other hand, holy crap- a lot of the writing in Ward has been awkward and poorly-edited, so I can't tell if this is intentional or WB rushing to get the chapter out, but the way her dad talked is pushing me much further into the pro-Robodad faction. Like, his middle managers sentence didn't even make grammatical sense, and Kenzie quickly interjecting sounded like someone resetting a behavior tree. (I know he's probably just an awkward guy, but every single thing about Kenzie is so absurdly suspicious that I love conspiracizing about her.)

Ward 7.1 The “you didn’t tell me about the first one” bit about her dad getting shot twice is absolutely readable as either her being a huge control freak and hating not knowing things about people or a deliberately scripted interaction to make it look like she didn’t know something about her robot dad.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Oh I didn't even notice we were on Ch 7 now. Isn't there normally an interlude between chapters?

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

No interlude for Ch.6 ward, new chapter is a nice start. Chapter title might indicate rising hope, but also a torch is controllable light unlike the other chapter titles.


Omi no Kami posted:

Ward: everything about the way Chris acts makes me think that we're heading towards his screwed-up reveal being that he's a middle-aged guy whose changer power makes him look like a kid, and I've read a ton of others also heading towards that conclusion, but I dunno; it seems like the story's trying too hard to make that a thing, and the fact that Tattletale saw deep reflection (and presumably whatever his cephalopod form is) without knowing what chris looked like and still concluded it was a kid inside makes me doubt it.

Kenzie on the other hand, holy crap- a lot of the writing in Ward has been awkward and poorly-edited, so I can't tell if this is intentional or WB rushing to get the chapter out, but the way her dad talked is pushing me much further into the pro-Robodad faction. Like, his middle managers sentence didn't even make grammatical sense, and Kenzie quickly interjecting sounded like someone resetting a behavior tree. (I know he's probably just an awkward guy, but every single thing about Kenzie is so absurdly suspicious that I love conspiracizing about her.)


I've seen both of these theories get put out there but I really don't see it.

Chris: At most I'd put him at upper teens instead of lower, but let's be honest, he doesn't act like an older person really at all. He doesn't like being treated like a kid (describes most kids), and he has a large vocabulary (describes plenty of kids I knew growing up). If the rest of the people around him are scared of him he'd have a lot of free time to read even more, and the way he acts isn't out of line with that at all. I'm pretty sure his deal is going to involve limits/side effects of his power (the bits about him not coming back together correctly sound pretty terrible).

Kenzie: C'mon, her parents clearly aren't robots. He was talking about how he was in a gang selling drugs (sales) and got out because he didn't get along with whomever was running his crew (or something else going on with the mid-level leadership - aka middle managers). The PRT not wanting to leave surviellence tinker with young mom (who probably has some other issues we've yet to find out) and maybe ex-gang member dad makes sense, wonder when Kenzie got back with them.


7.1 We've got solid confirmation on the portals pulling air (and probably stuff like radiation as well), and that the destinations of some of the portals got messed up, and that the portals are 3d areas. Kind of wonder what the insides will be like, since before the portals were small slices that were able to transversed quickly. We could get an entirely new extinction level threat!

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Omi no Kami posted:

Ward: Kenzie on the other hand, holy crap- a lot of the writing in Ward has been awkward and poorly-edited, so I can't tell if this is intentional or WB rushing to get the chapter out, but the way her dad talked is pushing me much further into the pro-Robodad faction. Like, his middle managers sentence didn't even make grammatical sense, and Kenzie quickly interjecting sounded like someone resetting a behavior tree. (I know he's probably just an awkward guy, but every single thing about Kenzie is so absurdly suspicious that I love conspiracizing about her.)
I read him as autistic or something else on the 'dealing with people' spectrum. Most people wouldn't casually drop that they were a drug dealer who got shot twice when meeting a friend of their 11 year old daughter, that's for sure.

Does seem to confirm he's her biodad and it's probable her mom is her biomom, then. Could just be they were nowhere near ready to deal with a kid or specifically a kid with Kenzie's powers when she first triggered, but they've apparently gotten things together enough to get custody of her back.


EDIT: About Chris

Naw, he really really strikes me as a teenager. It's theoretically possible he's chronologically older and has stunted emotional development because of the complications of his power, but I don't think that's where this is heading, and even then he'd still be mentally a teenager in a lot of the ways that matter.

PetraCore fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 16, 2018

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Kenzie: Yeah, I'm really unclear on her whole timeline; early in the story I thought that she was only at the asylum after GM, before her parents were found and re-entered into the system, but somewhere semi-recently it was explicitly mentioned that she went to the asylum at a specific point pre-GM; in direct response to her weird teacher-fixation, maybe? Youth guard may have been involved as well, since it was implied that she was traveling around doing inappropriately intense black ops training for potentially years before YG forced her to slow down and take a slot on one of the wards teams.

In a lot of ways Chris is emblematic of a lot of what frustrates me about early Ward; he has setup to be really interesting, and like Kenzie he's suspicious as heck (wasn't it Tattles who mentioned that his super-strict prison orphanage basically gives him the freedom to do whatever he wants because he scares the hell out of them without even resorting to using his power?), but the story has been so absurdly reticent about giving us any hard details that I feel silly speculating beyond some very limited, general guesses.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Omi no Kami posted:

In a lot of ways Chris is emblematic of a lot of what frustrates me about early Ward; he has setup to be really interesting, and like Kenzie he's suspicious as heck (wasn't it Tattles who mentioned that his super-strict prison orphanage basically gives him the freedom to do whatever he wants because he scares the hell out of them without even resorting to using his power?), but the story has been so absurdly reticent about giving us any hard details that I feel silly speculating beyond some very limited, general guesses.
Yes but I don't think it's physically possible for the place to maintain being super strict because of the fact that there's so many kids per staff. It probably tries to be strict for that exact reason but they literally can't devote the proper amount of attention to problem kids, was my impression. Which sucks but is understandable in the wake of how many kids they have to care for, at least Chris has other support systems and isn't totally falling into the cracks.

EDIT: Like I remember someone in-story mentioning that there's like a hundred kids per staff member in the institution Chris sleeps at. If they didn't try to do things in a very routine and sparse manner I doubt they'd get anything done, and getting kids fed, housed, and clothed has to take priority.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

Omi no Kami posted:

Kenzie: Yeah, I'm really unclear on her whole timeline; early in the story I thought that she was only at the asylum after GM, before her parents were found and re-entered into the system, but somewhere semi-recently it was explicitly mentioned that she went to the asylum at a specific point pre-GM; in direct response to her weird teacher-fixation, maybe? Youth guard may have been involved as well, since it was implied that she was traveling around doing inappropriately intense black ops training for potentially years before YG forced her to slow down and take a slot on one of the wards teams.

Um, I think you got something mixed up? She wasn't ever in an asylum (are you thinking the therapy group is based off asylum folks? Only Victoria and Sveta are from an asylum afaik). She was in foster care, then after triggering watchdog (prt run surveillance/analysis group), then after the youth guard got involved about her being overworked she was put with the baltamore wards. She also was active during gold morning, safe to assume part of the tinker collective that made the giant gun.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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ZypherIM posted:

Um, I think you got something mixed up? She wasn't ever in an asylum (are you thinking the therapy group is based off asylum folks? Only Victoria and Sveta are from an asylum afaik). She was in foster care, then after triggering watchdog (prt run surveillance/analysis group), then after the youth guard got involved about her being overworked she was put with the baltamore wards. She also was active during gold morning, safe to assume part of the tinker collective that made the giant gun.
I'm p sure Kenzie's power helped to aim the gun. We know working out of her specialty is like squeezing blood from a stone for her, but a gun's gotta aim.

Which is to say, you're right, but it's interesting that we can infer even more specifically than 'part of the tinker collective' based on her specialty.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


ZypherIM posted:

Um, I think you got something mixed up? She wasn't ever in an asylum (are you thinking the therapy group is based off asylum folks? Only Victoria and Sveta are from an asylum afaik). She was in foster care, then after triggering watchdog (prt run surveillance/analysis group), then after the youth guard got involved about her being overworked she was put with the baltamore wards. She also was active during gold morning, safe to assume part of the tinker collective that made the giant gun.

I went back and looked, it's blink-and-you'll-miss-it but in 5.5 Mayday mentions that Ashley did a stint in the parahuman asylum after she ruined that instructor's career, before the Baltimore wards- I assume related to her attachment disorder? Also, her parents have me super confused; I thought they were both foster parents, but since she says that weird parents make weird kids, I guess the implication is that at least her dad's a biological parent?

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

Ah yea its a brief stint looks like (you typed Ashley, but we all know you mean Kenzie and I found the spot you're referencing), after she was pulled from watchdog maybe? It sounds like less of a "you're in here because you're dangerous/issues" (sveta/victoria) and more of a "let's send you to the professionals and see if they think you're dangerous". Her parents thing is, as far as I can figure out, she was put into foster care (no idea if state pulled her ie child services or if her parents were just not in a position to raise her and put her there), she triggered, went into prt and bounced around to try to keep her from being too attached to anyone.

The description of her mom is basically a perfect fit for being her biological mom, and based on the stuff her dad is saying feels like he is probably her biological dad (referencing birth and not something else). No idea if she was back with them pre or post gold morning, but it wouldn't be strange for the people in charge of that stuff to be pretty willing to throw her and all her issues back to the biological parents and spend all the time and resources she would suck up on other kids.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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ZypherIM posted:

Ah yea its a brief stint looks like (you typed Ashley, but we all know you mean Kenzie and I found the spot you're referencing), after she was pulled from watchdog maybe? It sounds like less of a "you're in here because you're dangerous/issues" (sveta/victoria) and more of a "let's send you to the professionals and see if they think you're dangerous". Her parents thing is, as far as I can figure out, she was put into foster care (no idea if state pulled her ie child services or if her parents were just not in a position to raise her and put her there), she triggered, went into prt and bounced around to try to keep her from being too attached to anyone.

The description of her mom is basically a perfect fit for being her biological mom, and based on the stuff her dad is saying feels like he is probably her biological dad (referencing birth and not something else). No idea if she was back with them pre or post gold morning, but it wouldn't be strange for the people in charge of that stuff to be pretty willing to throw her and all her issues back to the biological parents and spend all the time and resources she would suck up on other kids.
Yeah and it sounds like a lot of foster parents gave her up even if they were otherwise good foster parents because she's just so exhausting to deal with through no real fault of her own. As harsh as it sounds to frame it this way, her birth parents kind of have additional motivation to deal with her even on her bad days because they (presumably) love her very much, even if they were also apparently not deemed to be fit parents for a few years.

Obviously there's some poo poo going on in their household that people aren't willing to tell Victoria directly, but I've also got the impression that it's more 'parents are really weird and have some issues that might not play well with Kenzie's issues but are genuinely trying' rather than a situation people think is dangerous for Kenzie, because I don't get any sense of urgency around it, just the other members of Team Therapy not being comfortable around Kenzie's parents. Maybe whatever situation landed Kenzie in foster care was pretty heinous even if the parents have cleaned up their act.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Ward: Man, the trial section from the latest chapter really rubbed me the wrong way. (Note that this is probably bias: I dislike Rain, and that is very likely heavily coloring my take on things.) Anywhoo, Victoria's section was great, but the way the trial/pretrial whatever thing was written felt really emotionally manipulative to me, as if the story was going out of its way to show off what a great guy he was, and how unfair and nasty the families of the many, many people he personally murdered were. On top of that, I get that it wasn't a trial, but the lack of procedure and lack of legal rigor in favor of the panel casually chatting about the issue and inviting subjective commentary from literally everyone involved felt weird.

Anyway, I know that's probably unfair of me, and I'm not asking or expecting my goofy superhero story to cover the tedious, often unfair workings of a legal system in granular detail, but a lot about it bugged me.

On the plus side though, holy crap Victoria's gross dysmorphia ramblings were extremely awesome.

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

I eagerly await the interlude several chapters from now from the perspective of one of the former villains kept at the Wardens HQ living in an alternate earth utopia wherein Yamada fixed everyone's problems.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

Omi no Kami posted:

Ward: Man, the trial section from the latest chapter really rubbed me the wrong way. (Note that this is probably bias: I dislike Rain, and that is very likely heavily coloring my take on things.) Anywhoo, Victoria's section was great, but the way the trial/pretrial whatever thing was written felt really emotionally manipulative to me, as if the story was going out of its way to show off what a great guy he was, and how unfair and nasty the families of the many, many people he personally murdered were. On top of that, I get that it wasn't a trial, but the lack of procedure and lack of legal rigor in favor of the panel casually chatting about the issue and inviting subjective commentary from literally everyone involved felt weird.

Anyway, I know that's probably unfair of me, and I'm not asking or expecting my goofy superhero story to cover the tedious, often unfair workings of a legal system in granular detail, but a lot about it bugged me.

On the plus side though, holy crap Victoria's gross dysmorphia ramblings were extremely awesome.


Rain thoughts: He hasn't personally murdered anyone as far as I can tell. Snag was killed in a direct fight, and the deaths in the mall were accessory to murder at worst (and probably accessory to manslaughter in reality - he neither set the fire nor locked the doors). The rest of his crimes are listed as theft/arson. I think some of your opinions on Rain are colored by mistaking what his crimes actually are.

This didn't come across to me as showing how mean/nasty/unfair the families were, but more showing his change and decisions. Earlier in the story I was wondering if Rain was going to cut and run to be joining up with March's crew or something along those lines. A good compare&contrast would be when Taylor went hero, and how it was a utilitarian solution and not a change of heart.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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ZypherIM posted:

Rain thoughts: He hasn't personally murdered anyone as far as I can tell. Snag was killed in a direct fight, and the deaths in the mall were accessory to murder at worst (and probably accessory to manslaughter in reality - he neither set the fire nor locked the doors). The rest of his crimes are listed as theft/arson. I think some of your opinions on Rain are colored by mistaking what his crimes actually are.

This didn't come across to me as showing how mean/nasty/unfair the families were, but more showing his change and decisions. Earlier in the story I was wondering if Rain was going to cut and run to be joining up with March's crew or something along those lines. A good compare&contrast would be when Taylor went hero, and how it was a utilitarian solution and not a change of heart.

Right, the action he actually took was not unlocking the doors, but he'd been threatened not to unlock them and the laughing breakdown really sounds like a panic attack more than him actually finding it funny, and I'm saying this as someone who has had panic attacks. Obviously the moral thing for him to have done would be to have unlocked the door right away even on penalty of death, but it's really unfair to put the blame for the attack as a whole on Rain when he was just one of the dumbass cult teens manipulated and pressured into helping out. Rain's a convenient target for all the hate as a participant who ended up triggering from it, and thus becoming rather visible, but the unfair thing is framing it like Rain's the main person who has the blame, rather than Rain having been one participant who was a minor and raised in a cult.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Then again: it's drat near impossible to be objective about a thing when you're suffering from a huge personal loss relating to it. That's normal. So I think that's what the point of that was, that there's a reason people directly connected to the attack weren't doing the judging, they were just giving their perspective. That's the moral thing.

EDIT: I mean if it had ended with 'well you didn't really mean it, you're free to go' that would be bullshit. But it didn't. The case moves forward, Rain spends time in jail, and then he'll get a full trial. And that's the just thing, not lynching him. Nobody has to forgive him. But it's not going out of the way to make Rain look good that some people have, because that's got more to do with Staci than it does with Rain, I think.

I also suspect people want to come down harder on Rain because they feel unsafe about the fact that a lot of truly horrific people got amnesty after Gold Morning because they were deemed a containable danger and not actively violent anymore. Like Bonesaw. As much as Riley was under some truly horrific conditions herself and as much as Jack's secondary power probably counts as a soft compulsion in and of itself, she did a lot of absolutely horrific things and enjoyed doing them. I wouldn't really feel safe with her still being alive if I'd been the family member of a victim of hers, but she's not only alive, she's... well, not free, more like on a permanent probation. Knowing what we know as readers it's understandable why the amnesty happened, but it would also be really scary to the average person.

PetraCore fucked around with this message at 00:55 on May 20, 2018

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

A couple things:

- There is no real legal system yet; there's no specific legal code to follow, so they're playing things by ear

- I really can't understand why anyone would flat-out hate/dislike Rain unless they've just completely misread a lot of things or forgotten parts. If anything, the main criticism I can think of is the complete opposite - that he's been an almost unrealistically good person in all the time we've seen him (the only sorta-selfish thing he's done is be willing to fight the people trying to kill him, but otherwise he's been willing to be tortured to death in exchange for the lives of Erin and the other innocent-ish Fallen). The dude spent most of his life in a cult, and even the crime he committed was one of immoral inaction under the threat of a parahuman who he knew had no qualms with killing (or torturing or whatever) people.

edit: To be honest, I was expecting far worse when it was initially revealed that Rain had killed people and that his cluster-mates wanted to torture-kill him. Instead, his crime was the sort of thing it isn't difficult to understand a not-evil person doing (in his circumstances, anyways).

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:53 on May 20, 2018

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Yeah, inaction under extreme duress isn't exactly something you can blame him for, especially given that he was like 15 at the time.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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I think the laughter throws people off, tbh. But manic laughter in the middle of a stressful, horrible situation that you hate is a thing.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."

My bet on his actions was that he was the one who chained the doors shut (and would fit a bit better into the story IMO), but that would make the whole thing a bit more ambiguous. Based on people's reactions to him currently I think actively participating would have generated too great of a negative reaction for many readers, so his inaction works well.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

ZypherIM posted:

My bet on his actions was that he was the one who chained the doors shut (and would fit a bit better into the story IMO), but that would make the whole thing a bit more ambiguous. Based on people's reactions to him currently I think actively participating would have generated too great of a negative reaction for many readers, so his inaction works well.

I was initially expecting to find out that he set the fire; that would be an option that both involved him directly causing the deaths, but didn't require the sort of direct craziness of being willing to kill innocent people "up close and personal." Regarding the laughing, I definitely got an obvious impression of "he's completely losing his poo poo and having a panic attack because he can't mentally deal with what's going on and what he did"; I can't imagine interpreting that as some genuine "he was truly happy and unrepentant" thing, particularly since he directly states in first-person how much his dream nights (the ones from his perspective) crush him emotionally.

I'm curious if there's any truth to the "Rain absorbed non-negligible personality characteristics from his cluster-mates (and they received from him)" idea. I'm leaning towards that not being the case now (or at least not being the cause of Rain becoming a better person or his clustermates becoming murderous), since it seems like something else is causing his cluster-mates to obsess over killing him.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Ytlaya posted:

I was initially expecting to find out that he set the fire; that would be an option that both involved him directly causing the deaths, but didn't require the sort of direct craziness of being willing to kill innocent people "up close and personal." Regarding the laughing, I definitely got an obvious impression of "he's completely losing his poo poo and having a panic attack because he can't mentally deal with what's going on and what he did"; I can't imagine interpreting that as some genuine "he was truly happy and unrepentant" thing, particularly since he directly states in first-person how much his dream nights (the ones from his perspective) crush him emotionally.

I'm curious if there's any truth to the "Rain absorbed non-negligible personality characteristics from his cluster-mates (and they received from him)" idea. I'm leaning towards that not being the case now (or at least not being the cause of Rain becoming a better person or his clustermates becoming murderous), since it seems like something else is causing his cluster-mates to obsess over killing him.
Yeah, idk. Maybe we'll get to learn more about the actual mechanism of kiss/kill because that could genuinely be it, especially if Rain's got the runty powers. I mean, aside from the fact that Rain is a very visible target for all the frustration and pain and hatred they've got going on, but Snag's dying narrative really feels like a release from some sort of compulsion that just used his existing emotions as a mechanism?

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013
So it was linked a few months back that the ending of Ra was being rewritten and drafts were starting to be put up.
https://qntm.org/files/ra/end2/happen.html

Just checked randomly today and it looks like he's finished the drafts - 5 chapters in total.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007

ZypherIM posted:

Based on people's reactions to him currently I think actively participating would have generated too great of a negative reaction for many readers, so his inaction works well.

I feel like when people complain about Rain, or complain about people complaining about Rain, the focus is far too much on the severity of what he did. Because the problem is not one of morals - plenty of capes have done far more hosed up poo poo than Rain and had readers not dislike them nearly as much. The problem is that the narrative feels like it's doing him a huge disservice by failing to get the reader invested either way.

What Amy did to Victoria had narrative impact in Worm because we knew them beforehand, because it tied in to a huge hosed-up event involving the Undersiders and all the capes in Brockton Bay, and because it involved hosed up power stuff. It was great reading, it made her one of the most controversial characters in Worm and it always complemented the main story.

What Rain did at the mall happened before the story of Ward even started, it basically launched its own arc (at the very start of the story no less) with minor tie-ins to other parts of the story or characters, it didn't involve anyone else we give a poo poo about at all and it was exceedingly mundane as far as hosed up poo poo goes. Frankly speaking, I don't really care about what he did in the slightest.

I still enjoyed the whole Fallen storyline thankfully because Victoria is great, and the Fallen as antagonists are pretty good. I don't even dislike reading about Rain as such. But I still don't care what happens to him either way because the story has completely failed to make me invested in the crime he committed. If anything, making him more responsible for what happened would make me MUCH more interested in him as a character. But because of how information is being doled out to the readers - we found out what he did and then kept finding mitigating circumstances afterwards, compared to for example Amy's situation again where all the mitigating circumstances came earlier in the narrative, allowing her terrible gently caress-up to stand on its own and justify her going to the Birdcage - it keeps feeling like the story wants me to treat him with kiddy gloves. And my feelings on that are 'sure, whatever, can we get to the other hosed up members of team therapy yet?'

Before this whole arc started, I was pretty ambivalent on a lot of Therapy members. Chris and Tristan have become a lot more interesting to me, but Rain just keeps spinning the wheels despite this being his story-arc. That feels a bit backwards.

Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 12:06 on May 21, 2018

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Insurrectionist posted:

Before this whole arc started, I was pretty ambivalent on a lot of Therapy members. Chris and Tristan have become a lot more interesting to me, but Rain just keeps spinning the wheels despite this being his story-arc. That feels a bit backwards.

I'm liking most of team therapy's members more and more every time we see them interact, but I also wish the story would tell us what the heck was going on sometimes. I hesitate to make worm comparisons, since the two are distinct stories with different agendas and structures, but to draw a shallow comparison: by word count I think we're about halfway through the S9 arc, but we still know virtually nothing about anyone on team therapy besides Rain. We've gotten some insights into how they interact (and I honestly wish we'd gotten more of that- Kenzie and Ashley play off of each other so well), but almost everyone in the group is still a huge question mark.

This might be the sort of critique that ceases to become valid if you read the story through in one go, but I read Twig after it was finished and I don't think I would've enjoyed it nearly as much if at the 30% mark we still didn't know any of the lambs' backgrounds or what their deal was.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Worm and Ward have been written under very different contexts, too. It's really all you need to know in order to comprehend the difference between the two. It explains everything about Ward.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Omi no Kami posted:

I'm liking most of team therapy's members more and more every time we see them interact, but I also wish the story would tell us what the heck was going on sometimes. I hesitate to make worm comparisons, since the two are distinct stories with different agendas and structures, but to draw a shallow comparison: by word count I think we're about halfway through the S9 arc, but we still know virtually nothing about anyone on team therapy besides Rain. We've gotten some insights into how they interact (and I honestly wish we'd gotten more of that- Kenzie and Ashley play off of each other so well), but almost everyone in the group is still a huge question mark.

This might be the sort of critique that ceases to become valid if you read the story through in one go, but I read Twig after it was finished and I don't think I would've enjoyed it nearly as much if at the 30% mark we still didn't know any of the lambs' backgrounds or what their deal was.
Well to be fair the lambs all basically have one background.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

So I'm gonna go ahead and read this Practical Guide to Evil story since I hear it's one of the better web serials.

Does it have cool fight scenes/action sequences? I'm not ashamed to admit that it's a big plus if a series has cool/interesting action, though it's obviously not super important.

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Katreus
May 31, 2011

You and I both know this is silly, but this is the biggest women's sporting event in the world. Let's try to make the most of it, shall we?

Ytlaya posted:

So I'm gonna go ahead and read this Practical Guide to Evil story since I hear it's one of the better web serials.

Does it have cool fight scenes/action sequences? I'm not ashamed to admit that it's a big plus if a series has cool/interesting action, though it's obviously not super important.

Yep. Although more of the sneaky plan type rather than power spam (at least for the main character).

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