Working in IT 3.0: xp_cmdshell

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Working in IT 3.0: xp_cmdshell

Contingency: Jun 2, 2007; MURDERER

Lets Get Patchy posted:

I'm basically in the same situation as you were, just a little older. Decided to use that GI bill money to learn something I've been passionate about all my life.

That said, our IT program focuses a lot on python programming and it was a huge reason why a lot of students washed out. Intro to programming was one thing but data structures really kicked everyone's rear end. After multiple 20 hour "labs" I really learned the benefits of it, moreso after watching videos about security and network engineering. I've got a pretty good handle on it and still practice despite my limited time.

When our high level sysadmin classes came around, I forced myself to use powershell while everyone was clicking in AD. I hosed up a lot but I definitely learned a lot from it.

Hopefully you won't end up like I did. I had roughly CCENT level of network knowledge from my military career, plus time on a helpdesk and working in the reserve as a junior sysadmin. I wanted to build on what I was doing in the reserve, so I studied for my MCSA while I was in school. I thought I was king poo poo because I had a degree+certs+experience while everyone else had just school. I was wrong. Having relevant experience disqualified me from the college pipeline--"traditional students need only apply." Skills only matter if you can get to the interview, and the interviewer is looking for skills. Outside of the pipeline, going to school means you've been out of the industry for years. The longer it takes you to find a job after school, the wider that gap increases. It was rough. If I could do anything differently, it would be:

1) Take internships at large companies for whatever pay they offer--corporate recruiters are there to skim off the top students before anyone else does. Skills won't impress people when your resume is sitting in a pile with 50 others post-graduation. Use that position to meet people that do what you want to do. Find out if they will have any openings and if they like you, stay in touch.
2) Work around the pipeline if needed. Recruiters wrote me off--it sucked, but it is what it is. I turned my nose up at grading papers for what my brother made at taco bell and was snooty about it. What I didn't know is that my professors were receiving requests for almost graduating IT students. While the Regions corporate recruiter didn't know what to do with me (it's been 9 years and I'm still mad about that mid-career comment), any of those professor could have put me on the short list for the next job opening. Be friends with your professors and let them know that you are interested in any opportunities that cross their desk. Unless it's grading papers, because that's bitch work.
3) Tailor your resume to what you think the position is looking for. I've been told "we're not sure why you're applying." "Beer money" is not an appropriate response. I believe the perception of being someone with potential is more appealing than having a bunch of skills that don't fit the team (or worse, peg you as the guy that's going to "fix" things.)

# ? Jul 2, 2018 21:07

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 12:35

Lets Get Patchy: Aug 8, 2006

Contingency posted:

Hopefully you won't end up like I did. I had roughly CCENT level of network knowledge from my military career, plus time on a helpdesk and working in the reserve as a junior sysadmin. I wanted to build on what I was doing in the reserve, so I studied for my MCSA while I was in school. I thought I was king poo poo because I had a degree+certs+experience while everyone else had just school. I was wrong. Having relevant experience disqualified me from the college pipeline--"traditional students need only apply." Skills only matter if you can get to the interview, and the interviewer is looking for skills. Outside of the pipeline, going to school means you've been out of the industry for years. The longer it takes you to find a job after school, the wider that gap increases. It was rough. If I could do anything differently, it would be:

1) Take internships at large companies for whatever pay they offer--corporate recruiters are there to skim off the top students before anyone else does. Skills won't impress people when your resume is sitting in a pile with 50 others post-graduation. Use that position to meet people that do what you want to do. Find out if they will have any openings and if they like you, stay in touch.
2) Work around the pipeline if needed. Recruiters wrote me off--it sucked, but it is what it is. I turned my nose up at grading papers for what my brother made at taco bell and was snooty about it. What I didn't know is that my professors were receiving requests for almost graduating IT students. While the Regions corporate recruiter didn't know what to do with me (it's been 9 years and I'm still mad about that mid-career comment), any of those professor could have put me on the short list for the next job opening. Be friends with your professors and let them know that you are interested in any opportunities that cross their desk. Unless it's grading papers, because that's bitch work.
3) Tailor your resume to what you think the position is looking for. I've been told "we're not sure why you're applying." "Beer money" is not an appropriate response. I believe the perception of being someone with potential is more appealing than having a bunch of skills that don't fit the team (or worse, peg you as the guy that's going to "fix" things.)

I totally get what you're saying and it's the main reason why I've stopped at getting certs, aside from sec+. I've never worked in IT so not having the experience should hopefully help me qualify for the pipeline, aside from soft skills I've developed in my current career.

I do have a clearance and being in aircraft maintenance, I've fostered some really good working relationships along the way with people who work with major defense contractors. Because of this, I've got some open lines of communication with some tech recruiters for those companies that know I'll be graduating soon. I'm really hoping that those opportunities pan out because it's not possible to take an internship right now with full time work and school.

# ? Jul 2, 2018 21:36

guppy: Sep 21, 2004; sting like a byob

Already holding a clearance is really valuable, getting someone cleared is extremely expensive and takes forever. I don't work in that sector but IIRC Sec+ is mandatory for DoD stuff so hopefully you shouldn't have too much difficulty. Good luck

# ? Jul 2, 2018 21:39

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Tab8715 posted:

Uh what?

Even if you are paid poo poo and you have an opportunity to do something awesome just do it. Why?

The experience you’ll get out if it is worth it’s weight in gold. When you get your next job tell them all the stuff you did and learned.

He's clearly fighting against a company that A) doesn't pay for it and B) doesn't give a sh--

Defenestrategy posted:

Sure, but when half of your company is currently running Win XP, Eudora 5(circa 2000), and Word Perfect suite 8(circa 1997), and the other half is on Win10, GSuite, and Office 365 and the manager wants to know why can't she open this complex excel sheet in loving Correl Quatro, or why Eudora 5 won't import outlook contacts correctly, it seems like a simpler and probably only solution would be to at least update to something made in the last ten years and has been supported for at least the last five.

# ? Jul 2, 2018 21:51

MC Fruit Stripe: Nov 26, 2002; around and around we go

What do you people think of Packt so far? I'm considering a subscription to Mapt, which is their subscription service.

# ? Jul 2, 2018 21:59

Roargasm: Oct 21, 2010; Hate to sound sleazy
But tease me
I don't want it if it's that easy

The python networking book from humble bundle was garbage. Started out engaging but was just 400 pages of basic technical examples and output at the end. He worked thru the cli ref for like 3 routers then did ansible's docs. People on reddit were saying Packt was a content farm when the sale was up, this definitely enforced that

# ? Jul 2, 2018 22:03

MC Fruit Stripe: Nov 26, 2002; around and around we go

That's my concern, right there. On the one hand, you've got new technologies that you want to be ahead of, so I don't really want to wait the 3 years for a reputable company like Apress or O'Reilly to put something together. But how good can a company's books be when they release approximately 721 books per month. Who are these authors?

e: It's worth noting, that for $14.99/mo, I really don't need many books to be good. 719 of those 721 monthly books can be poo poo - the other two good books (and videos) would subsidize the rest. That's why I'm looking at it.

MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 2, 2018

# ? Jul 2, 2018 22:40

Vulture Culture: Jul 14, 2003; I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

What do you people think of Packt so far? I'm considering a subscription to Mapt, which is their subscription service.

Packt's business model is finding people on social media who sound like experts on something and asking them to write books for insultingly low margins

http://steveloughran.blogspot.com/2013/07/publishers-im-not-going-to-write-or.html

They have a few decent books, but their overall quality is depressingly poor compared to Manning or O'Reilly.

# ? Jul 2, 2018 22:41

hihifellow: Jun 17, 2005; seriously where the fuck did this genre come from

Bleh, a job that was sold to me as "need someone with an outside viewpoint to come in and help guide/drive projects under a new director to pull a company out from the technology rut it's been in for the past 20 years" is in actuality "do the scraps of work the existing team doesn't have time for" and it's all junior sysadmin level stuff. I have a one-on-one with the director tomorrow that I'm going to raise my concerns with but it's been almost a month and I'm as bored on my fourth week as I was on my first. A shame, everything else about the job is great, it's just the work is so dull I'm literally falling asleep in my chair.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 00:26

adorai: Nov 2, 2002; 10/27/04 Never forget; Grimey Drawer

Internet Explorer posted:

What you're asking is one of the core difficulties of working in IT. It's really hard to make people appreciate that they need to spend money if things aren't currently on fire. A big part of that is having the experience and personality to get the ones holding the purse strings to trust you. A lot of it is explaining to non-technical people what is going to happen if they don't spend the money. Downtime is going to happen (learn RPO/RTO). Security breaches are going to happen, possibly putting your company out of business. Having a solid foundation allows you to be more flexible and more responsible when a requirement comes up. Etc, etc.

There's not generally a silver bullet.

[Edit: I told you so's are useful when done in a productive manner. It's really easy to come off wrong when having the conversation, but in my experience it's something that has to be done to get people who aren't involved in the day-to-day to realize that their decisions had ramifications. Because they will absolutely forget and blame you.]

To add to this, a LOT of IT departments spent money willy nilly in the past chasing more and more 9's of uptime. The cost of adding those 9's was higher than the cost of an outage, and now many CEOs, COOs, and CFOs are suspicious of IT spend. Make sure you understand the REAL RPO and RTO, and only make a case to meet the business's expectation. Spending money to provide higher uptime than the business needs is going to hurt you in the long term. Hopefully you have a formal BIA to determine the business needs, don't rely on hearsay or casual conversation.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 00:34

Sepist: Dec 26, 2005; FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS; Gravy Boat 2k

Am I weird for having gone so long in my career without knowing what ERP stood for?

# ? Jul 3, 2018 06:25

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Sepist posted:

Am I weird for having gone so long in my career without knowing what ERP stood for?

That's a pretty good KPI.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 06:55

Inspector_666: Oct 7, 2003; _{benny with the good hair}

Sepist posted:

Am I weird for having gone so long in my career without knowing what ERP stood for?

I don't really understand what ERP, CRM, or CMS actually is.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 14:38

devmd01: Mar 7, 2006; Elektronik
Supersonik

Nobody who uses them does either.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:10

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

'it's the thing this whole business runs on and without it we're scrambling through the dark screaming into the void so how about you stop loving around and just fix it already!!!!'

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:25

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Being told you're needed on a troubleshooting call that involves 3 acronyms that you have never heard of is a terrifying experience.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:31

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

Krispy Wafer posted:

Being told you're needed on a troubleshooting call that involves 3 acronyms that you have never heard of is a terrifying experience.

The CEO is probably on that call expecting a play by play, too.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:32

dogstile: May 1, 2012; fucking clocks
how do they work?

I default to "why are you trying to talk to me about Erotic Role Play" in my head and then try not to laugh.

I'm a child.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:33

Captain Ironblood: Nov 9, 2009

Going to take my CASP exam because why the hell not, I'm not paying for it. Might as well gear up for the CISSP soon as well.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:36

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Vargatron posted:

The CEO is probably on that call expecting a play by play, too.

Or the issue has been going on for a week and someone got the boneheaded idea that it's a network issue and we're expected to have an answer 10 minutes after we get on the call.

It's not a network issue. It's an application issue. Reboot your server.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 15:45

dogstile: May 1, 2012; fucking clocks
how do they work?

"I can't send anything out! It must be the network" - App guy

"Network isn't down and has had no changes in the last two weeks, check your application" - Network guy

*cc's director* "We're down, we need you to get network guy to fix it" - App guy who is now on "the list".

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:00

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

Ah yes, the "not my loving problem" hot potato.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:09

Sepist: Dec 26, 2005; FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS; Gravy Boat 2k

Judge Schnoopy posted:

'it's the thing this whole business runs on and without it we're scrambling through the dark screaming into the void so how about you stop loving around and just fix it already!!!!'

It's funny you say that because I'm working with a customer who's ERP system has been down for 5 days and that's exactly the temperature in the office

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:10

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

Sepist posted:

It's funny you say that because I'm working with a customer who's ERP system has been down for 5 days and that's exactly the temperature in the office

Five days!!!! How are they making production?

Jesus Christ we would have a meltdown during an hour of downtime, much less 5 days.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:27

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Vargatron posted:

Five days!!!! How are they making production?

Jesus Christ we would have a meltdown during an hour of downtime, much less 5 days.

Just write everything down on paper and enter it when it comes back up

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:30

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Sepist posted:

It's funny you say that because I'm working with a customer who's ERP system has been down for 5 days and that's exactly the temperature in the office

how the gently caress can someone have an ERP down for 5 days holy poo poo. I'm surprised it's not much more angry in here because here would be a disaster to all hell

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:31

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

Bob Morales posted:

Just write everything down on paper and enter it when it comes back up

woah there buddy that's EXTRA WORK for the production floor. We can't have that!!!

# ? Jul 3, 2018 16:35

Sepist: Dec 26, 2005; FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS; Gravy Boat 2k

Honestly I'm not sure how they're doing it either. They are really loving down. Cryptolocker hit every single loving thing on their system across 20 locations. They are operating on pen and paper from home. I don't get it

The worst part isn't even helping restore this. Its that the CEO brought in a third party security and forensics team. I'm listening to them talk about all of these security holes the company has and how we didnt patch them for them and I have to just bite my tongue. We brought them all up over the past 2 years and their team either ignored us or pushed off our requests. But now we look like the bad guys. Oh loving well.

Sepist fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 3, 2018

# ? Jul 3, 2018 17:06

Mad Wack: Mar 27, 2008; "The faster you use your cooldowns, the faster you can use them again"

we would probably be out of business in a day or so if one of our three erp systems went down

# ? Jul 3, 2018 17:16

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Sepist posted:

Honestly I'm not sure how they're doing it either. They are really loving down. Cryptolocker hit every single loving thing on their system across 20 locations. They are operating on pen and paper from home. I don't get it

The worst part isn't even helping restore this. Its that the CEO brought in a third party security and forensics team. I'm listening to them talk about all of these security holes the company has and how we didnt patch them for them and I have to just bite my tongue. We brought them all up over the past 2 years and their team either ignored us or pushed off our requests. But now we look like the bad guys. Oh loving well.

The fact that they're bringing this up right now instead of focusing entirely on getting back up and running says a lot.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 17:18

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Sepist posted:

Honestly I'm not sure how they're doing it either. They are really loving down. Cryptolocker hit every single loving thing on their system across 20 locations. They are operating on pen and paper from home. I don't get it

The worst part isn't even helping restore this. Its that the CEO brought in a third party security and forensics team. I'm listening to them talk about all of these security holes the company has and how we didnt patch them for them and I have to just bite my tongue. We brought them all up over the past 2 years and their team either ignored us or pushed off our requests. But now we look like the bad guys. Oh loving well.

So long as you have bringing up all those issues documented, that's a big old helping of not your loving problem :munch:

# ? Jul 3, 2018 17:21

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

Lol why are they focusing on captain hindsighting the problem rather than getting things back online

# ? Jul 3, 2018 20:23

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Thanks Ants posted:

Lol why are they focusing on captain hindsighting the problem rather than getting things back online

SOMEBODY MUST BE BLAMED!!!!

# ? Jul 3, 2018 20:27

nullfunction: Jan 24, 2005; Nap Ghost

Thanks Ants posted:

Lol why are they focusing on captain hindsighting the problem rather than getting things back online

Someone's gotta take the blame.

efb

# ? Jul 3, 2018 20:27

nielsm: Jun 1, 2009

dogstile posted:

"I can't send anything out! It must be the network" - App guy

"Network isn't down and has had no changes in the last two weeks, check your application" - Network guy

*cc's director* "We're down, we need you to get network guy to fix it" - App guy who is now on "the list".

Lock app guy and network guy in a room together.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 20:56

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

with one knife

# ? Jul 3, 2018 20:58

rafikki: Mar 8, 2008; I see what you did there. (It's pretty easy, since ducks have a field of vision spanning 340 degrees.)

~SMcD

RFC2324 posted:

with one ~~knife~~ cable cutter

# ? Jul 3, 2018 21:04

Methanar: Sep 26, 2013; by the sex ghost

Finally just got something cool working.

Currently shovelling real time video in hybrid cloud setup through on-prem kubernetes.

# ? Jul 3, 2018 22:41

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Methanar posted:

Finally just got something cool working.

Currently shovelling real time video in hybrid cloud setup through on-prem kubernetes.

Well it beats shoveling leaves!

# ? Jul 4, 2018 00:26

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 12:35

siggy2021: Mar 8, 2010

Vargatron posted:

Five days!!!! How are they making production?

Jesus Christ we would have a meltdown during an hour of downtime, much less 5 days.

Our ERP system is cloud hosted now and if it hiccups for five seconds a ticket will likely come in.

# ? Jul 4, 2018 00:29

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