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People getting mad at someone getting the scoop SMH. By not signing the NDA / getting a review sample they've managed to get the traffic of literally everyone interested in computer hardware today. Sure, there'll be some fallout, but everyone else is going to be watching closely for what it is, because there's a big payoff for being first in this business.
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Oct 15, 2018 17:58
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1gnoirents posted:Omg are you for real I figured you'd have yours by now Yeah no ETA even. Oh well half the fun is in the waiting.
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Oct 15, 2018 18:07
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1gnoirents posted:Yes it would be cool if that were the case, but it isnt. Sigh I guess like I said to myself its just video card reviews but I really question their judgement. Embargo ends on the 16th with release the 17th so while I'm technically incorrect I feel my point still stands. I don't see a good reason why the reviews can't be out a week before release tbh.
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Oct 15, 2018 18:13
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Lockback posted:If a company is enforcing NDAs on an entire industry that's a great way to get hit with anti-trust or even racketeering charges. haha my god i wish we still had functioning antitrust for so many reasons before this one
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Oct 15, 2018 18:20
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Lord Stimperor posted:The 2070 is so expensive that it has the same price tag as the previous deluxe item. But one version of the old deluxe item was sold at a higher price so actually the 2070 is p cheap the dude who just got my non fe 1080 for 385 is most likely very happy with his decision right now
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Oct 15, 2018 18:30
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It's unclear to me why Nvidia's causing ill will by throwing these two-week embargoes around when they clearly don't have to. They were already leading the market with the 10 series and now it looks like they're handily beating themselves, leaving the only competition far behind. Why keep things under wraps when two weeks before release they could have reviewers running up preorders by freely saying "This poo poo owns, buy it now"? The only thing I can come up with is establishing a precedent so it will be less suspicious when they're not in the lead. It's the same thing with Intel putting out an 9900K/2700X head-to-head that had every reviewer saying "wait a second, that doesn't look right." They were already going have everyone saying it was 10-15+% faster, so why piss people off and change the story by doing stupid/shady poo poo to run up the score?
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Oct 15, 2018 18:34
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L0VE posted:Embargo ends on the 16th with release the 17th so while I'm technically incorrect I feel my point still stands. I don't see a good reason why the reviews can't be out a week before release tbh. A week gives you enough time to realize that paying $1200 for lackluster performance gains and promises of features to come might be a little silly.
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Oct 15, 2018 18:39
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I didn't order a 2080 Ti because of the weird review thing, now I have to wait for them to get in stock because all of the preorders are closed. I thought the 2080 Ti might only be marginally faster than a 1080 Ti in apps not specifically optimized for it.
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Oct 15, 2018 18:41
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Cygni posted:more RX 590 leaks. looks like a 12nm Polaris with 10% better performance. quote:Performance wise, we are looking at ~10% improvement compared to RX 480.
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Oct 15, 2018 19:03
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Eletriarnation posted:It's unclear to me why Nvidia's causing ill will by throwing these two-week embargoes around when they clearly don't have to. They were already leading the market with the 10 series and now it looks like they're handily beating themselves, leaving the only competition far behind. Why keep things under wraps when two weeks before release they could have reviewers running up preorders by freely saying "This poo poo owns, buy it now"? The only thing I can come up with is establishing a precedent so it will be less suspicious when they're not in the lead. Companies like Microsoft, Intel, Apple and Google got where they are through old fashioned, non-sentimental ruthlessness. It's par for the course and nobody is surprised when they pull off shady poo poo. You don't get to the top by playing fair. Sometimes they screw things up and the optics look bad, but the bad examples are very few compared to the many practices over decades of operating.
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Oct 15, 2018 19:09
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L0VE posted:Embargo ends on the 16th with release the 17th so while I'm technically incorrect I feel my point still stands. I don't see a good reason why the reviews can't be out a week before release tbh. This is a critical technicality. NDAs that dont end until the day you can buy a product are shady as hell. NDA's that end before you can buy a product are simply not shady. There is no loss, there is nothing that can be "hidden" by its very nature of being up before you can buy a product. I literally dont understand the hatred, its like a whole bunch of people just discovered what a NDA is. These companies are providing early review samples to outlets to drum up pre release hype if their product is indeed better which only stands to benefit the consumer. There is no route for that to be shady if the embargo ends before anybody can buy the product. The only condition of receiving review samples is the NDA... something that doesn't negatively affect a consumer whatsoever. The alternative is no review samples at all and we get to wait until the day you can literally go out and buy one and a million rushed lovely reviews trickling in throughout the day. I mean either situation isn't going to blow anybody's minds but one is certainly more convenient to the consumer than the other. I have yet to hear a single argument about why an NDA for review samples that ends before you can actually buy a product is bad for anybody other than review outlets fighting for clicks. I've beaten this horse enough ill stay quiet from now on
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Oct 15, 2018 19:21
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Oh good, I got a couple of Dell Gift Cards, let me head over and see what they have for selection... 
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Oct 15, 2018 19:33
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Companies like Microsoft, Intel, Apple and Google got where they are through old fashioned, non-sentimental ruthlessness. It's par for the course and nobody is surprised when they pull off shady poo poo. You don't get to the top by playing fair. Sometimes they screw things up and the optics look bad, but the bad examples are very few compared to the many practices over decades of operating. I don't doubt their ruthlessness, just their judgment in this case. Things like "Here's our new generation! (it's the old generation, but overclocked!)" or preorder gimmicks make great sense when you're having difficulties but it seems like Nvidia is in the situation of being able to sell everything they will produce for a while yet so it's unclear why they are loving with that. Maybe they want to give people who are so inclined an excuse to be suspicious and clean out the known quantity that is Pascal inventory instead, IDK. 1gnoirents posted:I have yet to hear a single argument about why an NDA for review samples that ends before you can actually buy a product is bad for anybody other than review outlets fighting for clicks. It's bad for consumers because they're put in the position of trying to decide on a purchase with incomplete knowledge. Yes, it's a preorder, but people are still putting money down on an unknown. Yes, they can cancel it, but obviously Nvidia thinks it has additional value in wheedling money out of people or they wouldn't bother with this whole song and dance. (And yes, this is a luxury good and obviously the stakes are a lot lower as a result but the principle still applies.) Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 19:36
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The Dell Price must be paid.
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Oct 15, 2018 19:50
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Zero VGS posted:Oh good, I got a couple of Dell Gift Cards, let me head over and see what they have for selection... Lol come on Dell................................................
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Oct 15, 2018 21:01
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Good god, that blower card retails for $1400: https://www.pny.com/GeForce-RTX-2080-Ti-11GB-Blower That's for reference clocks and a drat blower
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Oct 15, 2018 23:09
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B-Mac posted:Early 2070 review. So, of course we'll wait a couple of days to see some "proper" reviews, but it looks like the 2070 is 15% to 20% better than a 1080 but only if they're at the same clockspeed , so a) my idea of doing a step up from a 1080 FTW sounds kind of silly now since the 1080 FTW boosts to 1860Mhz out of the box while the base version of the 2070 they will probably offer as a step up option should boost to 1710Mhz if FE or 1640MHz if reference so 8-12% less - probably negating a bit of the advantage if not halving it, and if so I'm pretty sure it's not worth spending 150€ or whatever the difference will be (got the 1080 for 350€ before taxes...), and stepping up to a 2080 would cost me waaaay too much, I'd rather save the money and buy a 3070 in 2 years b) it's not so big a difference that anyone with a 1070Ti or better, or even a 1070, would feel compelled to upgrade right away, which leads me to think 10XXs will probably retain decent value on the used market since they're still perfectly capable of running the latest games (up to 1440p at least) and are great upgrades from earlier cards without the extortionate price of the new ones, which will consequently keep those prices high for a good while c) the real selling point of the RTX cards will actually be how well the new features like raytracing and DLSS are implemented. Which is something I think no review could prove at this point in time, so we'll just have to wait and see, and maybe by the time those features are mature enough, it'll be 30XX time... sounds about right guys? TorakFade fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 23:14
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Sounds about right though I'd normalize your figures, most of these cards are going to self boost to the 1900 range no matter what and if they dont its trivial to make them do so
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Oct 15, 2018 23:57
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lmao at this whole generation starting at one thousand one hundred uk loving pounds ladies and gentlemen 
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Oct 16, 2018 00:05
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The realities of the physical process they're on combined with the new, currently 100% useless technology dictate that these cards, aside from the 2080Ti, can't really do anything new. The GTX cards, unburdened by a massive amount of wasted die space, have a much better shot at impressive reviews.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:15
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K8.0 posted:The GTX cards, unburdened by a massive amount of wasted die space, have a much better shot at impressive reviews. nvidia is not going to release any cards that compete with the 2070/2080/2080 Ti in any measure
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Oct 16, 2018 02:01
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Cygni posted:nvidia is not going to release any cards that compete with the 2070/2080/2080 Ti in any measure ...any more cards.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:02
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Cygni posted:nvidia is not going to release any cards that compete with the 2070/2080/2080 Ti in any measure Yeah Nvidia has never released overlapping 'refresh' cards when they put stuff out that gets mediocre reviews
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Oct 16, 2018 02:14
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I skipped on the 10 series b/c I thought 20 series would be the real money ticket. a shameful choice.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:19
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I went from a 680, to a 980, to a 1080 (and water cooled the 1080), and at the moment I have very little interest in the 2000 series. The only cards fast enough to really be worth the effort to tear everything down and rebuild start at $1200 and that is before before throwing a full cover water block on one. I think I'm going to sit it out till whatever they put out on 7 nm hits, hopefully by then we will see more widespread use of RTX hardware and will have some idea about how it actually performs too.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:39
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Hace posted:I skipped on the 10 series b/c I thought 20 series would be the real money ticket. a shameful choice. Well, you're not wrong. The release of the 20series probably means savings on the 10 series now for you !!
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Oct 16, 2018 03:08
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Cygni posted:nvidia is not going to release any cards that compete with the 2070/2080/2080 Ti in any measure They don't have to compete with them to be impressive. They just have to be better price/performance, which is easy when you aren't blowing a huge chunk of a massive die on tech that does literally nothing right now.
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Oct 16, 2018 04:13
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Whatever uses the tech doesn't even run great either, it can't even do the Battlefield V raytracing stuff at 1080p without dropping frames The whole thing has been a gigantic waste of time
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Oct 16, 2018 04:58
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Statutory Ape posted:Well, you're not wrong. The release of the 20series probably means savings on the 10 series now for you !! This is not at all to cast judgment on the enthusiasts itt because if it's a big interest then I have nothing against going for the top poo poo at all, but for the general consumer, really why isn't this more of a thing? I haven't been in the computer parts game for very long but the value GPUs depreciate at is absolutely insane. What the hell is the point in spending $600 on a 980ti or whatever when just a few years later we're seeing equivalent cards for half as much. And even in a single generation, the actual benefit for the higher end graphics cards feels like such an illusion to me. A bunch of my friends (and gaming's a peripheral interest for most of them) all built computers around when the 10 series came out; they cut corners on the RAM and CPUs like crazy but made sure to go for 1080s because it's "the most important component." I didn't think anything of it at the time, but now that I've built my PC and been looking at this stuff, I'm just kind of bewildered about it all. I'm literally a video game artist but like poo poo I couldn't spot the difference between high medium and ultra top end 90% of the time when I'm actually playing something. I'm kind of being an idiot sitting here with my 7870 at this point but I feel like graphics have gotten inflated in people's minds way way more than they actually matter. It's a bit different now that it's actually obsolete as hell and literally won't run some things, but until like a year ago I'd go from a computer with an up to date card and back to my ancient one and after a few minutes I'd stop even noticing. But it's just with the GPUs, too; we have slightly inflated Intel CPU prices and people are going nuts, but they'll buy a $5-600 2070 when the 1070s, which will run literally anything out there for the foreseeable future, are not irregularly going for less than $300. But then the idea of spending $550 on a 9900k, which won't become obsolete even close to as quickly as the GPUs do, is the extravagant choice?
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Oct 16, 2018 05:12
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K8.0 posted:They don't have to compete with them to be impressive. They just have to be better price/performance, which is easy when you aren't blowing a huge chunk of a massive die on tech that does literally nothing right now. yeah but why would nvidia want to do any of that?
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Oct 16, 2018 05:15
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They depreciate because there have been pretty considerable advances made generation over generation. People can easily identify good video cards based on model # etc so people romanticize them to an extent lol. Basically epeen. If you paired a gtx 1080 with a decent processor from 6 years ago you're going to have a decent gaming experience 6 year old video card is going to present a vastly different experience in terms of graphics options & framerate usually 
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Oct 16, 2018 05:17
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RTX does nothing for current games. That is not the same as doing nothing. Of course, if you're on this forum talking about buying your GPU to play games then there's little reason to get a 20x0 but don't get too caught up in the PC gaming enthusiast bubble. As for what Nvidia is thinking when they push RTX for games, as they definitely are, I suspect they think that by pushing out the hardware early they'll have an easier time to convince game developers to develop for the platform. Real adoption of RTX could result in a very significant competitive advantage over AMD in a couple of years, assuming the strategy works. In the meanwhile, they have an extremely attractive midrange product for the advertising, film, product visualization, and architecture businesses where hardware accelerated ray tracing is a gargantuan performance increase on par with hardware T&L for games in 1999. Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 05:24
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Statutory Ape posted:They depreciate because there have been pretty considerable advances made generation over generation. Yeah the 6 year old one for sure. The 2 year old one though? Or maybe even 4 years. Based on the numbers yeah the advances have been huge, but I feel like people have convinced themselves that it's a good idea to shell out a ridiculous amount of money, relatively, for visual gains that are probably more incidental than anything else in 90% of use cases. If you're sitting there with your 144hz 1440p monitor then it's a different story but I feel like that's still not the general audience for most of the people that will actually be buying the 20 series.
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Oct 16, 2018 05:25
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Koramei posted:but I feel like people have convinced themselves that it's a good idea to shell out a ridiculous amount of money, relatively, for visual gains that are probably more incidental than anything else in 90% of use cases. yea this is basically marketing if people will buy ExtenZe they'll buy anything
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Oct 16, 2018 05:27
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A lot of it I think is that many people of my generation (early 30s) grew up when 3d graphics were really taking off. We were aware of the AGP cards out there from ads in magazines and word of mouth and coveted them dearly but generally weren't about to be spoiled by our parents with the top end stuff. Now many of us are fortunate enough to be at a point in our lives where there is some significant disposable income and we can indulge that. For what it's worth I think this applies to other things as well - I wasted a ton of money on an imported right hand drive sports car that I had lusted after as a youth. I used to race mountain bikes and I'd always have parts on my lovely bike break during a DH run; I treated myself to a new higher end bike. Our generation will never be able to work for a few summers and pay our student loans off, or save for two years and buy a house, so poo poo like this is our indulgent release. Also the box for the 9900k makes nerds think it's worth the money and the games industry markets effectively to our escapism tendencies e: that post came off more humblebraggy than I meant for it to. I'm not rich and I'll probably die alone in a shed, I wasn't trying to hype myself up. VelociBacon fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 05:28
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That's fair enough; I think for enthusiasts it's...well maybe still a bad purchase in some objective sense, but still totally understandable. But I'm just saying for your average 2080 user, you could swap it with a 1070 and buy them a nice chair with the difference and that'd probably be a more noticeable improvement in their gaming experience at the end of the day.
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Oct 16, 2018 05:34
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I think BENCHMARKING had a lot to do with it also. Bringing that stuff end-user side, promoting it, and letting nerds waste money trying to get a meaningless score higher was an amazing marketing idea.
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Oct 16, 2018 05:36
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People that are buying every year and selling their cards right as the new generation comes out aren't doing too bad. my 1080ti is selling for $150 less than what I paid now on ebay, which is about 20% .
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Oct 16, 2018 05:46
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I spent a hell of a lot more money on graphics cards from Voodoo to 6x00 days than I do lately. Adjusted for inflation, my 6600GT edges out the 1070 I bought at the height of miningmania 2017 as the most expensive video card I ever used, and my Dad bought it because I wanted a new card for Doom 3, a game I utterly loathed but was promising shelf to upgrade for while I was breathing the hype. I eventually sold it while it was still useful because AGP died and I replaced it with a PCIE Radeon that wasn’t any upgrade at all because I gave up on PC games in the Xbox 360 era. Personally this thread feels like the Robb Report of SHSC sometimes; but I’m not used to the new paradigm of spending more on your graphics card than your processor. I was buying a new P4 every 18 months until Conroe. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 06:06
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Also nerds are just real, real bad with money.
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Oct 16, 2018 06:20
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